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To Mars and Back in Ninety Days
paltemalte writes "A new means of propelling spacecraft being developed at the University of Washington could dramatically cut the time needed for astronauts to travel to and from Mars and could make humans a permanent fixture in space. In fact, with magnetized-beam plasma propulsion, or mag-beam, quick trips to distant parts of the solar system could become routine, said Robert Winglee, a UW Earth and space sciences professor who is leading the project."
This is fine and well, but how does one meanwhile solves the most pressing problem, that is, providing CHEAP and RELIABLE means to get into earth orbit???
Sign me up, should this ever become a reality. However, the only way space travel will become an everyday occrance is if it is profitable. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to do it for the sake of doing it. But people aren't willing to spend millions/billions/trillions of dollars to do something just because "its there".
/. is a bunch of nerds at a million typewriters. It's not a political conspiracy determined to undermine your beliefs.
What's all this about a "new method" being required for short trips to Mars? What about the 101 old methods we have? Nuclear Thermal, Nuclear Electric, Orion, Laser Lifters, Nuclear Salt Water (this seriously needs to be developed!), Fission Fragment engines, Nuclear Steam ships, etc, etc, etc.
We've got high powered propulsion options pouring out of our ears. It all comes down to getting funding. Wave a plan near congress and they're sure to kill it before breakfast.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
What are they looking at in creating particle or at least micrometeorite ablative shielding that can handle the increased velocity these hazards will bring with the increased speeds?
right now our spacecraft are basically beer cans with insualtion and windows, any tiny object at any decent velocity can rip through them like tissue paper. on a long distance mission as a trip to mars would be, we need a craft that is at least 100 times stronger than anything we launch now which would make it more than that many times heavier.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The article mentions having one station here and another on the other side, so that the craft itself need not carry its own propulsion.
However, any sort of malfunction - from the braking side not firing at the right time, to the braking side getting knocked off angle by a micrometeorite at the wrong moment, to the craft itself getting pushed off course - would mean that the craft itself would go hurtling through space with no real chance to be rescued.
The way around this? Keep an on-board propulsion system that's able to slow it down from full-speed back to 0, and then speed it up enough to get back to where you were going originally in a reasonable amount of time.
Which kind of defeats the purpose of the entire method.
That green slime had it coming.
Speed is relative. Meteors (including micrometeors) often travel 100's of thousands of miles an hour w/respect to the EARTH. A measly 20-40 thousand mph difference in ship speed isn't going to make much difference to one of these bad boys.
- The race is not [always] to the swift, nor the battle to the strong. -
..is there ANY realistic reason why sending people to Mars is good science?
No. There is no direct scientific reason to send humans to Mars. However there is a hell of a lot of capacity for new discoveries to be made and new technology to be invented by trying. Just look at the sort of stuff that came from the space program of the 50's and 60's. Likewise look at some of the stuff that came from [D]ARPA projects which on the surface had no direct scientific applications, but in retrospect gave us things like the Internet.
Setting lofty goals and spending money on pure research and development without having to worry about practical application or reason is a great way to produce really good, useful science. Not mention it makes you look really good if you happen to be the nation doing it.
You can always spin the spacecraft around. That's exactly what they do/did with the Space shuttle. You may be traveling at an obscenely high rate of speed, but you have 360/360 degrees of freedom for attitude. Haven't you ever played Asteroids?
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Can anyone tell me how the "pusher" satellite in the picture is supposed to work? I see one beam of energy with enough force to accelerate a spacecraft with a lot of force. Either there's an invisible other beam balancing this out, scorching the Earth underneath, or the satellite is doing a much better job of propelling itself out of the solar system than it is pushing the distant spacecraft where it's supposed to go. Or has someone figured out how to suspend Newton's second law?
The cost and difficulty of shipping all of that material out to a Mars orbit, and maintaining it so it will be ready to deccelerate an incoming spacecraft would be Absolutely Enormous.
The article appears slashdotted. But,
Using this system means that you can't use conventional rockets and air-breaking to slow you vessel? Why can't the craft get a massive push from Earth orbit, then slow down using another form of propulsion once it gets to its destination?
Granted it makes coming home a major pain. Now you have to come home the old fashioned way. But, getting there isn't so bad... and sending supplies out to outposts doesn't take too much either.
The first few trips is to Mars in 45 days, to earth in 6 months. You can send all you want out to Mars or to meet a craft in transit in 45 days or less. Going home is a bigger problem.
Think... boot strapping... start small... build up infrastructure. Eventually when enough infrastructure is built up at a remote location you can do Plasma Jets both ways.
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Since the plasma is basically 'free' once the station is operational, merely direct an equal amount of plasma in the oppposite plane to the direction required for propulsion - the station would remain motionless, relatively. Mind you, I'd be carefull approaching the back door...
The last fucking thing you want is my undivided attention...
Because we all know that the steam engine, the universal governor, the printing press, the cotton gin, the combine, the internal combustion engine, the Model T, the airplane, the transistor, the integrated circuit, the telephone, the chemical battery, the capacitor, the steam tubine, the incadescent light, the phonograph, the film projector, the Compact Disk, and the mechanical loom are all examples of not much happening in the world because of the guiding principle of life being profit.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
Imagine when 80 days around the world was an extraordinary and unbelievable accomplishment, now it seems that something as odd as 80 days around the solar system may be laughed at in a 100 years time.
In todays world, I cannot imagine how restrictive travel must have been, in tomorrows, they will pity us with our cars and segways!
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And there lies a lot of the problem with the space program. It's become cold and lifeless. You sound like a freaking accountant except that instead of counting dollars, you're counting quanta of scientific data.
We send people to Mars because it would be one glorious incredible acheivement of the human spirit and human will. We send people to Mars to hold our heads up high and say: Look what we can do, universe, now get out of our way.
And some day, the wild horses of humanity will go into space, and all the domesticated men and women they leave behind will huddle around their pathetic lives and fade away into the gray mist reserved for all mediocrity.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.