VoIP Gets a New P2P Routing Protocol (DUNDi)

bkw.org writes "Today Digium released DUNDi which can be used with the Asterisk Open Source PBX for p2p call routing. Digum has also released a whitepaper (pdf) on DUNDi so others can implement this new technology into their products and give VoIP a push into the mainstream." Voxilla also has a story.

Comments

Will Hatch ban VoIP?

[grunt107]

Given that Orrin wants all P2P technology banned, would this be terminated as well if he succeeds?

Or does this give P2P the legitimacy it needs to exists.

I vote the latter but I am biased for P2P tech anyway.

Re:Will Hatch ban VoIP?

[networkBoy]

" Given that Orrin wants all P2P technology banned, would this be terminated as well if he succeeds?
Or does this give P2P the legitimacy it needs to exists."

This is the first app to give P2P legitimacy.
If corps start using it over VPNs to connect branch/remote locations to the main office then P2P is here to stay as they will buy Hach's opinion.
-nB

Re:Will Hatch ban VoIP?

[Stween]

This is the first app to give P2P legitimacy.

... Usenet, 1979, anyone?

Peer-to-peer technology has been around and has been in common usage for many, many years. I can't name any well known peer-to-peer systems before 1979, but I'm quite sure there were some.

P2P had legitimacy long before illegal file sharing came along.

Here come the security problems.

[IGnatius T Foobar]

Remember when closing off your email servers from open relaying was a skill that not everyone had a grasp of? Here we go again. While I do agree that VoIP inevitably requires more advanced routing, it is my fear that this will be abused for a long time until admins become skilled in the art of preventing unwanted forwards. In the meantime, you'll have...

• Skript kiddiez abusing it to go VoIP-to-landline on someone else's nickel (oh yes, the days of phreaking are coming back)
• Bulk dialers. You thought telemarketers were bad? Wait until the spammers get a hold of free calls to your home!

I fear for the future... :)

encryption? wiretap?

[r00t]

P2P changes things. The FBI might not like this.

Number assignment is an issue too, unless you
can dial a "number" that looks like an email
address or a URL.

CALLEA Anyone

[GoodNicsTken]

This is exactly why the VoIP providers should not be required to provide a voice stream back to the softswitch. The criminals will start using something like this.

In the mmean time the VoIP industry will spend billions on upgrades (All passed on to the consumer) to provide the FBI a tap that is so easily defeated.

Wtite the FCC about this. Get involved, join the EFF!

Where does the trust build from?

[CharlieHedlin]

It seems to me that the enum standard should work, and that this requires too much trust building.
In the case of a corporate PBX, couldn't enum be used with distributed redundant DNS servers?

I use Asterisk, it is great, and I like the idea of DUNDI, but by the time you get a web of trust built, why not just use enum?

Re:Where does the trust build from?

[Gaewyn L Knight]

Easy answer... ENUM requires that you trust a central body in control of the use of your records. Havn't we all learned from DNS and Verisign?

Re:Where does the trust build from?

[Scott Laird]

Well, look at things this way: ENUM has been around for *years*, yet there's still no official ENUM tree. There's no way for VoIP carriers like Vonage to publish SIP addresses for the PSTN numbers that they service.

Why? Because of political squabbling by telcos, verisign, and the like. Whoever controls the ENUM tree will be able to control the future of telecommunications. That means money and power, and that's why there's no progress occuring--all of the usual players are jockeying for position, and will be for years.

Since ENUM is really just a DNS tree, that hasn't stopped people from producing their own ENUM trees (e164.org, etc), but there's nothing particularly official about any of them. They're all interim solutions, and none of them are big enough to be able to make a difference on their own.

There are a couple differences with DUNDi. First, it's *designed* to be decentralized, without a single point of control (or toll collection). There's an open-source implementation right out of the gate. It at least pays lip service to spam and telemarketing issues. As long as you sign the agreement, it *should* be possible for anyone to participate. And, it already has several mid-sized providers involved.

In short, right out of the gate, DUNDi is already ahead of ENUM, because it's already usable, while ENUM still doesn't have any way to publish numbers in the "official" e164.arpa tree. DUNDi doesn't have room for Verisign-style toll collection, while the official ENUM tree almost requires it.

We'll see how it goes. If Vonage joins up, then DUNDi has probably won and ENUM will end up being irrelevant, because the network effect will strongly favor DUNDi.

Re:Skype

[DarthBart]

No. Skype is still as proprietary and closed source as ever.

Skype and Standards and Alternatives

[billstewart]

Skype prefers to do things that are "better" than the current standards, and does them in a proprietary way to protect their potential profits, and doesn't document their protocols because they're not interested in having random people develop software that interconnects with them. (Make whatever judgements you'd like about that... :-) However, unlike many vendors who take that approach, they've at least done a decent job of it.

• They're using audio codecs from Global Ip Sound, who make codecs that are more tolerant of high packet loss than most of the low-bit-rate public-standard codecs, and also better-than-telco-quality higher-bandwidth codecs. It looks like Global IP is working on getting some of their codecs into the standards track.
• They view NAT traversal as a critical design element, because NAT's become extremely widespread (in spite of being evil breakage of the end-to-end paradigm), so they've done more than the SIP standards do to simplify that. (SIP came from Internet people, so it was far, far better than the H.323 stuff that came from the ISDN crowd, and it's easy to set up firewalls for SIP transparency, but NAT traversal takes extra work.)
• They view security as a critical requirement, so they've got modern crypto algorithms like AES in there, and from a performance standpoint it's a really big win to encrypt the data packets rather than using IPSEC tunnels, because VOIP data is inherently small compared to the headers. Unfortunately, because of their attitudes about proprietariness and no public documentation, it's not possible for the crypto community to examine their protocols or code, and most crypto mistakes these days are made in protocol implementations, not in the fundamental algorithms, so even though they use AES and Diffie-Hellmann and long enough keys, that doesn't mean they're not totally hosed.
• P2P is fun, and can scale well by taking load off the central server, and the Skype folks don't want to run a huge central server. This has some conveniences for their design (supernodes for NAT traversal assistance, etc.), and creates some interesting security tradeoffs (no central point of attack, but widely distributed local attack points) which are unfortunately covered up by the lack of protocol documentation.