Women in Gaming White Papers

Re:Sex ratio? by antifoidulus · 2004-10-20 07:04 · Score: 4, Informative

Actually, in societies that don't participate in aborting female fetuses(China and India namely) females outnumber males, even though your stat is correct? Why? Because at every age males have higher fatality rates than females. Seriously, look at the demographics of the US from the CIA world fact book:
for the US
Canada
France
Japan(though there the ratio roughly stays the same
For all of these countries, you see that there are a lot more males under 15 than females, but from 15-65 the numbers tend to even out(in the US there are more females than males in this group) But for contrast look at:
China and
India
where because of gender selective abortions, there are significantly less females than males in the age 15-65 group. Actually, that is becoming a major concern in those places, as you can imagine what problems a group of males who really need sex can cause.....

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Monstar L

Sounds Pr0nish... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-20 07:04 · Score: 2, Funny

Like, "White Chicks, Black Joysticks"

Meh.

Ob Vonnegut quotation by nekoniku · 2004-10-20 07:08 · Score: 3, Funny

"Why should I bother with made-up games when there are so many real ones going on?" (Cat's Cradle)

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"It's a wonderful idea. But it doesn't work." -- Tad Danielewski

Shoryukens and wedding bells by evilmousse · 2004-10-20 07:13 · Score: 3, Funny

In related news, my 12-year-old offer to marry
the first woman to regularly defeat me at
StreetFighter regardless of age, race, or looks,
goes entirely unanswered.

I think I was born 5 years or so too late;
I've seen a few teenage girls who contend
in Soul Calibur...

I gotta move to California where they have more asians...

-evilme

Re:Shoryukens and wedding bells by Seumas · 2004-10-20 12:34 · Score: 3, Interesting

Meh. I posted this anonymously on accident, the first time. That'll teach me to post from someone else's computer. :(

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I can't speak for StreetFighter, but I know a girl in Lake Oswego that could probably hand you your ass in a few rounds of Counter Strike. Some guys at the UofO and I used to run a popular CS server (before I stopped playing most video games) and this girl named 'Val' was always on. She was probably around 18 at the time and she learned quickly. Oh, I actually knew another girl too on the same server from the same area, now that I think about it. She was pretty good, too.

Other than those two, the only females I've known who did much gaming played things like Sims, EverQuest and Ultima Online. There's clearly a distinction between the interests of both sexes, for the most part. Generally, it seems that females tend to avoid hard-core puzzle, strategy and action games. Even in MMORPGs, the 'action' and the 'fighting' tends to be a secondary or tertiary requisit for them. That's a broad description based on the women I've been around and people I've talked to, but it probably isn't too far off the mark, in general.

I'm ashamed to admit it, but I played The Sims Online for about a week. It wasn't for me. Boring and pointless. I gave it a chance, but it fell short (just like a lot of more male-oriented games did, like Anarchy Online, Shadowbane, ATITD, Rubies of Eventide...) The one thing that did stand out about The Sims Online, however, was the social interaction among players. Especially females. Within a few minutes of entering the game, I was invited to join a group of women who showed me the ropes, helped me out, gave me tips and eventually invited me to join their "house" (or whatever you call it in the game). The game play was painfully dull to me, but the community was unique. In most games, you won't see that kind of treatment. With most MMORPGs or FPS games, you join a server, create a character, figure out what the hell you are doing and start hacking stuff to bits all the while dodging the offcolor racist, homophobic and sexist remarks of pre-pubescent boys.

I wouldn't try to read some social theory or explanation into why there aren't many female gamers and why they're attracted to certain areas. Men and women are very different creatures and some things come more natural and are more appealing to one sex over the other (with interesting exceptions). The important thing is to welcome those people who do cross the boundaries and find enjoyment in it.

What bothers me more is the reaction of males any time someone with a female voice is playing (using the mic) or even just a female name logs into a server. You have three typical responses, such as those below:
The person who doubts that it's a female and makes a point of doubting it.
The person who goes out of their way to be a jerk to the female just to be a jerk.
The person who can't stop talking about the girl and sucks up to her and flirts with her and can't shut up about how hot he thinks it is that a person with breasts is playing his favorite game.

It would be nice if a female could join a server and we could all continue to play as normal without regressing into a pack of slobbering penises.

I also have a sister who has always played videogames. Not addictively like myself, my brother or any other male I know, but quite a bit nevertheless. She doesn't play online games, but has played almost everythign else on PS2/X-Box that she's come across. The frustrating thing is that it comes so natural to her. She's almost 20 now and as long as I can remember, she could walk into a room while my younger brother and I are playing and pick up a controller... and breeze right through things that we'd spent hours trying to beat. We'd take days or weeks to beat a game and she could do it in a couple sittings. ARGH! She's a bit of a tom-boy, but not much. She's just very *very* adept at the videogame thing, I guess.

Women gamers by Deorus · 2004-10-20 07:15 · Score: 3, Informative

They may be less than men, but they exist and form communities.

Re:Is it just me? by xenocide2 · 2004-10-20 07:52 · Score: 2, Interesting

Maybe the male centric problem runs deeper than what gender the characters around you, or even the character you control, is. Saving the world, destroying every last zombie, etc seems like a macho thing to do. In today's world of Equal Opportunity, it can be lost on us that women want to be women as much as men want to be men.

Resident Evil uses female characters to emphasize how weak you are, to highten the fright. Imagine our protagonist from Metal Gear in this zombie game. All of a sudden it goes from scary to moderately funny.

If you wanted to point to a game thats sliding over toward women, look no further than Final Fantasy. The series has slowly moved from Saving the Princess and the World by Restoring the Crystal's Light to androgynous characters fighting a war for feeling, and playing dressup. You can say what you want about condesending stereotypes, but its not like placing a woman in place of rambo dissovles the masculine angle. It takes a different kind of game to directly appeal to girls and women.

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I Browse at +4 Flamebait

Open Source Sysadmin

Why fewer women gamers? by Henry+V+.009 · 2004-10-20 07:55 · Score: 3, Interesting

Why are there fewer women in sports of all kinds? Why are there fewer women in the hard sciences? Why are there fewer women in prisions?

Maybe we're kind of different.

Re:Sex ratio? by TVC15 · 2004-10-20 08:06 · Score: 3, Funny

> as you can imagine what problems a group of males who really need sex can cause.....

more duplicate posts and bad moderating on slashdot?

Great articles! by kria · 2004-10-20 08:25 · Score: 5, Interesting

While I've never been a computer game programmer, I'm a programmer and a table-top and MMORPG player, and I have to say that this is a very insightful article.

I'm very happy that the place I work seems to have no problems hiring female programmers... but I'm still one of two female programmers on my approx 20 person team. Because there aren't that many women out there, because so many women were discouraged from technical fields for so long.

I have felt the atmosphere that discourages women frequently in gamer circles, when I'm around gamers I don't know - guys who tend to be crude, rude, and are there just to hack n'slash. My gaming circle is playing a campaign that features a lot more political intrigue, as well as has major male and female npcs who are more than window dressing. My group is nearly half and half on gender. It's wonderful.

Anyway, the more we make the reasons known, the less we'll have people claiming it's all just "well, women don't want to do that" or "men and women are wired differently, that's all".

One quick nitpick about the first article... by Morrisguy · 2004-10-20 08:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

...where the author credits Roberta Williams as creating the first female protagonist in a video game in 1987.

Wasn't the first lead lady in a video game Ms. Pacman? in 1981?

Re:One quick nitpick about the first article... by adagioforstrings · 2004-10-20 13:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

Ah, if you like to describe a yellow circle with a hair(?) bow and lipstick as a "female protagonist." I think Rosella fits the title a bit better.

Why are there fewer women? by valkenar · 2004-10-20 08:39 · Score: 3, Insightful

Look at the comments to this article. Half are openly misogynistic (although I'm sure someone will try to argue that attempts at humor excuses all) others focus on whethere females gamers are hawt enough.

Maybe this kind of thing wouldn't bother you, but it's the kind of thing you hear complaints about from women in the geek scene. If you care to listen.

Women are more social I would think... by blahplusplus · 2004-10-20 08:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

In my opinion women are more social then guys are. That and video games are mostly about action, look at the list of games and you see that at least 80-90% of them are action oriented games. I hate to be stereotypical but I think women crave socializing more then they do staring for hours in front of a TV or a computer. I'd think most women gamers know when to give games a rest where guys take their gaming more seriously and spend more time doing it.

I'll use my sister as an example, it takes her *forever* to finish an RPG. While it takes my brother and I less then a few days of hardcore playing on weekends and whatnot. My sister can't stand being alone or away from people, even just to have you in the same room as her and not even talking to her, she has this insane craving to be around people. Maybe it's that guys desire less social interaction then women? I think you also have to think about responsibilities and the real working world too.

But when I was in highschool almost no girls found video games terribly interesting to the point where it became their main hobby. They could play it on and off for a few hours with their boyfriends or whatnot but in my experience they would rather be outside or inside (parties, etc) doing something other then videogaming.

Re:Shoryukens and wedding bells (apology) by evilmousse · 2004-10-20 08:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

Let me apologize to any woman reading for all
the comments in this thread that indicate women
gamers are unwelcome if less than attractive. ..As if every single social interation between
the sexes need be sexual. We need you as gamers
if only to dilute this kind of idiocy among us.

-g

Female Gamers Do Get Attention by EngineeringMarvel · 2004-10-20 08:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm the main Battlefield editor over at AmpedNews so I keep up with gaming trends and personal since I cover the main online gaming leagues. One thing I have noticed about the female gamers is the attention they get from others playing in the online leagues. One in particular, who is on my Amped staff, is constantly getting attention from the male gamers.

It takes a certain type of girl to deal with the type of stuff that she handles all the time. She cannot get onto IRC without some male gamer wanting to bother her. I'm sure there are other gamers that I have played with regularly that are female, but choose not to say it. Mainly to avoid all the harrassement from the other online gamers. My point is, not only are girls different, but they have to be ready to put up with a community that is mostly made up of horny male teenagers.

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I couldn't think of anything witty to say, so...you're stuck with this.

Re:Female Gamers Do Get Attention by Elkboy · 2004-10-20 20:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

I don't agree with "girls are different". Males aren't all about violence and sex, and girls aren't all about pink, fluffly emotional stuff. These differences are partly forced on us by society at large, but also a gaming industry that is only beginning to realize that the differences, to the extent that there really are any, are much more subtle than that. From what I've seen, not even the old truth that males are into goal-oriented gaming and females are into social gaming are more than tendencies.

BTW, all teenagers are horny. It's just more obvious in a male-dominated subculture with ample access to sexualized images of women. These images have begun to diversify lately, but I think it's an intrinsic part of escapism such as gaming. What do you think all the female players of Final Fantasy games think of when they look at those scantily clad pretty boys wielding big swords?

Re:Shoryukens and wedding bells (apology) by evilmousse · 2004-10-20 09:02 · Score: 2, Funny

you hit the nail on the head. i am.

and you're the resentful fugly goth
(you're no beefcake, this is slashdot)
who gets neither sexual NOR social attention.

nice to meet you.

Re:Sex ratio? by antifoidulus · 2004-10-20 13:50 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually, China's population is expected to crest at about 1.5 billion and then start to drop considerably. China is in a very similiar position as the US with a big baby boom bubble, and low birth rates thereafter, only their boom occured in the 70s instead of the 50's. India however is expected to be the most populous nation on the planet in 20 years or so with about 2 billion people. I think the main reason that India is the place for outsourcing(skilled labor) whereas China is the place for manufacturing(generally unskilled) is because the population of India was much younger when India opened up than the population of China was when it opened up......

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Monstar L

Over in Korea by wrinkledshirt · 2004-10-20 17:35 · Score: 2, Informative

Just wanted to say that any person that tries to link computer game affinity to some sort of inherently male or female quality should come over to Korea. Tons of girls playing games here.

Good, good Starcraft players.

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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...

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