Slashdot Mirror
MP3 Going the Way of the 8-Track?
joepa writes "According to this MSN/ZDNet story, MP3 is dying. Overall, the data has not shown a clear trend, but at least one recent study reports that people are deleting MP3s faster than they are downloading them. AAC and WMA, meanwhile, are apparently gaining market share. Is this evidence that MP3 is being used largely to sample music rather than for permanent archival and listening purposes? They still don't think so. "
People just realize that when they need disk space, it's easier to delete mp3s because they can get them again anytime they want freely. The same can't be said for most WMA and AAC files which cost money. Once they're gone, you probably have to pay again. I know I didn't archive my music collection in mp3, though. I chose Ogg Vorbis, and may people choose something like FLAC.
AAC and WMA are on the rise, and that makes sense given the current marketing trends with these two codecs. Does that mean mp3 is dying? Hardly. It will be around for quite sometime, despite development of superior codecs.
all the companies producing new mp3 players agree...
[/sarcasm]
So, most of what we download is crap. What's new here?
See what I've been reading.
He's going to download what is readily available, or use the default format of the most readily available CD ripper. Winamp will play them all regardless; you can't even tell the difference.
Could it just be that a lot of people who were prolific in downloading mp3's now have most of the songs they want? I personally don't care about most new music enough to buy a cd or download a track, not that there isn't some good music out there, I just don't feel theres much I'm willing to pay for. And most of the older stuff I'm into I either got in napsters hey-day, or I own on CD, I can't recall the last time I actively seeked a song out. That and as other posters have already said, the mp3 audiophiles and already moved onto ogg and other formats.
Now, if I could just convined the world to provide music in FLAC format, I'd be happy.
Just more FUD.
Study sponsored by Microsoft with their own DRM agenda to push I presume...
The only thing I'd delete my MP3s for, are OGGs.
Suck it down you hapless technoweenies, Give me DRM-Free or give me death!
Yes, I am a smart ass; it's better than the alternative.
MSN is reporting the death of a rival format of WMA? Wow, there's a shocker!
Remember when Fraunhofer threatened companies for infringing on certain MP3 license a few years ago? Well, that shook the industry into finding alternate solutions. For me, if it isn't some form of lossless open standard such as Flac than I prefer to pass not only on the sound track but the playing device as well. For me, listening to highly compressed MP3 isn't my cup of tea even if the compression ratio for lossy is higher than lossless.
I am glade that Wikipedia settled (?) on OGGs rather than MP3s due to the open nature of the format. Hopefully this trend will continue whereby patent encumbrance may not be best solutions.
can you think of a way music tracks on the order of millions are encoded every week in ogg vorbis?
Could it be that the people who are running the spyware for this data to be mined for the research are more prone to losing their P2Ped mp3s when the 128 kilibyte .exe they downloaded thinking it was some game nuked their drive.? :)
In politics, you proclaim as already true what you would like to happen eventually.
i can't remember the extesion but the ipod format should be the only format making in-roads against the mp3 format.
most new electronic devices play the mp3 format but ignore the acc, ogg, wma, etc formats, like dvd players, car stereos, and the like.
Is it 5:30 yet?
Doesnt mean mp3 is dying. There are so many bad mp3 files (due to bad nameing, RIAA subversion, etc) and just so much lousy music that most of the mp3s on P2P are not worth saveing.
Also think about how many times you say "I want song x", and then your search on p2p turns up 40 different versions, thirty of which are covers by some irish tenor?
They probably are missing its increased utility, in swapping amongst friends. Whenever I am at a friends house, I rip all of their cds to mp3s, and most of the people I know do the same. This kind of use with the increasing prevelance of iPods and other players is definitely on the rise.
Not quite true, my old napster mp3s have completely made way for AAC, both from iTMS and from me reripping my CDs for a higher quality but smaller file size. The few mp3 I've actually kept from the napster days have all been converted to AAC as well.
I think that, if this trend is indeed real, and if it continues, then a lot of companies will start only handleing the predominant format.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
that is why mp3 players are not selling.
Oh and I see lots of home stereo players that will play DRM'd music... My audiotron will play WMA's until you get to the DRM variety.
mp3 is as popular as ever, hell the new phone system here uses mp3 exclusively for voice messages, background music and voice prompts.
Oh and when was the last time you saw a car stereo that would play any DRM'd music??
mp3 is solid as a format.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
In all honesty, it seems that only nerds use the ogg vorbis codec, despite it being technically superior.
You can search on a P2P network, and rarely see OGG files. It's sad, but true.
On the rare (RARE!) occasion that I buy one. Why? Because I can actually play them. See, WMA, AAC, OGG or the codec-of-the-week might be superior to MP3 but everything that plays compressed digital audio plays MP3. It's an issue of what will play where. When everything I have plays OGG, I'll probably switch to that. It'll probably be a long while before I replace my DVD player with one with OGG support though.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
As much as I dislike starting an argument with a logical fallacy, you should really look at the article a bit before making any claims as to the death of MP3.
First of all the article page loads with the title "MSN Tech & Gadgets". This is noteworthy, especially seeing as how MS is trying to break into this market. Of course they'd say MP3 is dead, especially when they're touting a DRM enabled propriatary format.
Also, we have this gem from the article:
According to researchers at The NPD Group's MusicWatch Digital who track the contents of people's hard drives, the percentage of MP3-formatted songs in digital-music collections has slid steadily in recent months, down to about 72 percent of people's collections from about 82 percent a year ago.
Aside from this being really creepy, it's a biased sample. Anyone who would let someone put monitoring software on their PC (assuming it's not spyware) would probably not have a lot of MP3 files on their machine, if you know what I mean *nudge nudge*.
To sum up: Article is bogus advertising spin. Nothing to see here, move along.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
um, what? my point was, since most downloads are mp3s and not ogg vorbis, the way most people obtain ogg vorbis files is for them to encode their own CDs. since we are talking about, among other things, increasing existence of AAC files on the order of 4 million tracks per week at least via iTMS (and that doesn't include people like me who ripped their own music in AAC via iTunes), i couldn't see how ogg vorbis would be statistically significant in comparison. do you think minority people who even know the existence of ogg vorbis would rip so much of their music that it would collectively come anywhere near million a week?
Just as my copy of Open Office still reads DOS format text files just fine, my hardware solid state music player that I buy in 2050 will still play MP3. Unlike 8-track and Beta (hardware formats), there's no barrier to force old software formats out of the market.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Thanks to assholes out there (RIAA, dumbasses, etc)... you have to download 10 copies of a song just to find one that isn't cut, low quality, a different song mislabeled, the chorus looped over and over, or simply static.
no comment
Have you ever noticed how almost every small storage technology uses the horribly limited, slow, badly designed FAT filesystem? There is a reason for this: FAT is the most compatable FS available. Few people use it anymore on their main filesystem (because it sucks), but almost everything else seems to use it.
I see the same thing happening with MP3. People just digitizing their music so they don't have to pull out CDs all the time will use whatever has the best sound/size tradeoff (or whatever comes with the system). If they're encoding their music for use on joe random device, they'll use MP3.
I read the internet for the articles.
Heck no, they will use this as proof that all of their laws and tactics are working. Now, all they need to do is get copyright extended again to infinity-1 years, pass a much stronger version of the DMCA, get that INDUCE act passed and the world will be right.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Its attitudes like that that will keep Windows in the drivers seat. 'Ah... Its just easier because its ubiquitous.' Sheesh. If you like Ogg, use Ogg. The rest of the world be damned.
And another thing: Why would you use the crap-tacular WMP? That thing has got to have the most convoluted UI I've ever seen (products from Computer Associates aside).
/. is a bunch of nerds at a million typewriters. It's not a political conspiracy determined to undermine your beliefs.
Major problem - no OGG car devices available whatsof***ever
Rio Karma + RF adapter works pretty well.
...it's probably because that's what iTunes and WMP, respectively, rip to by default.
I don't care how common WMA is, or that AAC is technically a "standard." MP3 is the only thing I know of that will play on every device and every computer, period. Hell, I bought a $79 AIWA deck for my car and it'll play MP3s from a CD. But not WMA, AAC, or anything else.
MP3 will die--right after Apple & BSD.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
yep
until there is a format that is as universally supported (dvd players, car stereos, ipod type devices, etc) as mp3, or until most/all devices will let you install your own codecs, mp3 is not dead.
------ hi mom
No thanks, I don't care what kind of compression it uses; I will never ever accept wmas or wmvs. In addition, I despise WiMP (Windows Media Player) with a passion.
Ogg is fine, I have no tchnical quarrels with it, and as a free codec, I think its fabulous.
however, if I decided not to use ogg, WMA would be about the last choice. Think about it:
1) WMA is not playable in an iPod and is difficult on non-windows platforms
2) WMP10 plays and RIPs MP3
3) MP3 is probably the best choice for people who need to move it amongst platforms.
4) unemcumbered AAC's are the best choice for people who own an iPod.
5) If you really care about the music and dont' want to be a slave to the flavor of the month, choose flac or ape.
6) WMA's are probably the last choice you'd make. No, check that. ATRAC is the last choice. But WMA's are close.
Seriously, you can rip in MP3. Make it your default in WMP10. Better yet, use your brain and use the FREE version of WinAmp 5.x. Better quality, no lock-in.
Maybe not, but it's quite a different story when you decide you want to re-encode those mp3's into another lossy format. For archiving purposes, there is no substitute for lossless compression. It has nothing to do with sound quality, and everything to do with having an exact, bit-for-bit duplicate of the original.
To make an analogy, you wouldn't want to backup your CD's on analog cassette tapes. Even if you couldn't tell the difference in sound quality, you still don't have your originals, and thus you have no backup. If it's not bit-for-bit identical, it's not a backup. I'm not saying there isn't a place for lossy compression. I use lossy compression myself for my portable player, and it works great. But that's not a backup, it's only a convienence.
This trend is very alarming. It basically proves what I should have known all along: the technical merits of a format, along with how laden it is with DRM, do not matter at all to the general public.
I thought that Xiph was doing a great thing with Ogg and I moved my entire collection over to ogg vorbis. I love it, and it sounds good. I thought it was a matter of time for the move from MP3 to Ogg to happen, since MP3 is larger, has more audio quality issues, and is not "free". Boy was I wrong! I thought people would be moving over to the smaller, higher quaity, free-as-in-speech codec.
Instead, we're seeing the opposite! People moving to more restrictive codecs (although the quality may still be better). I knew most people didn't care about free-as-in-speech that much, but this is sort of alarming...
Those people claim that the sounds CD's and mp3's cut are still part of the overall experience and their absence can be heard.
Are they right? Wtf do I know, I can't tastes brands of coffee but don't doubt coffee tasters. After a few glasses I can't even tell if I am drinking whiskey let alone wich blend but I don't doubt the experts. I can't tell colors apart but am smarter then to argue with a girl about it.
The simple fact is that humans have different ears. Just as some people can see the flicker of those tube lights and others of crt monitors some people have a lot better hearing. I just find flac amusing since it is used to rip cd's. Whats the fucking point? CD's are already leaving sound out. If you want to rip the real sound you gotta at least start at LP's.
So yes flac is kinda pointless, real audiophiles don't want it because it is still only cd's and people with mp3 players don't have the space or hardware.
But don't discount the difference in sound just because you don't hear it. Others may have better hearing.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Of course you could also go and buy it legitimately and avoid that headache.
Socialism: A feeling of discontent and resentment caused by a desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It is run on 40,000 people's machines who don't mind having some survey company look at their hard drives.
a) Everyone acts differently if they think they are being watched.
b) Who are these surveyed people? Don't they care about privacy or are they real vanilla computers with no real docs or finances on them.
c) I bet the online porn industry looks very unprofitable in this company's survey.
So lemme get this straight, the maker of WMA (MS) issues a report that MP3 is dying, to be replaced with (among others) WMA? Big shock.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
iTunes, by default, rips CDs to AAC files. Windows Media play rips CDs to WMA. Most users do not change their default settings, and so any CD ripped with their primary listening software will be stored in the corresponding format.
I use iTunes and I changed the settings to rip to variable bit rate MP3. But I'm a power user, and I imagine that most users don't even know what variable bit rate means.
Seriously, did they break into people's computers and do searches? Did they use P2P searches (which are about as reliable as a slashdot poll)? Did they run around a small part of the US looking for information? No, the story says "analysts" and "researchers", without naming names as far as I read.
You know what this is? This is akin to the old conspiracy theorist FUD model of writing, with a journalistic twist. The conspiracy theorist fud model simply states that you state the problem, in as worrying as words possible, every 2 or so sentances inbetween prooving it. For example:
"Researchers at NY university said that an asteroid is going to hit the earth within 2/3 months. This asteroid will wipe out ALL of the life on the planet. It is the size of texas."
Ect, ect ect and so on. Journalists write it in a journalistic way, however, instead of having the FUD every 2-3 sentances, they restate their thesis in a different way, then proceed to use words such as "researchers" or "analysts" over and over to somehow give it credibility. So, how did they get the information?
The "analysts and researchers" are "NPD group". They have a spyware app called "music watch digital", you know, the one that is put onto EMI's CD's and loaded onto the machine via autorun. You know, the one that can be disabled by the shift key? Yea, that one, the one that catalouges a persons harddisk and sends it back to whoever.
Now, the next question is, why would ZD net have a MS sponsored article written by a CNET staff member? Oh, wait, there's a second article at the bottom of the page, talking about a "maturing" mp3 market. You know, the market that is now going towards paying for DRM'd disabled music online? Notice the mention of sony, apple, and MS's players which will undoubtedly go towards people looking into these players and music services?
This equates to "our spyware app says that the mp3 may be dieing. People are using these players". Must be a slow news day or somethin'.
Candy-Coated Knowledge
An RF adaptor requires a free frequency. This can be a problem in areas that actually have people in them.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
True enough, but I've had minimal problems with mine driving around metropolitan Chicago. It has a slider to choose from a couple of little-used frequencies.
While I can concieve of an increase of popularity with aac because of iTunes I'm a bit suspicious of the report because it specifically mentions DRM formats. My guess is Microsoft is just trying to push the lie that people want DRM.
"Technically superior" doesn't mean anything when compared to the common standard of "good enough." Putting aside the issue of whether Ogg is even superior at all, unless there's a very good reason to switch to Ogg, most people will stick with the more standard MP3. Since MP3 files sound and work good enough for the vast majority of people, and they can be played on virtually any music player, there's no incentive for people to switch. Debate all you want over such droll things as patent issues, bitrates, etc., the mass public has latched onto MP3, and there's no current valid reason for them to switch to Ogg when it doesn't even work or encode in a lot of music players.
Want Slashdot headlines on your site? Try SlashHead
I must have watched a different debate than you. In the debate I watched, Bush mentioned it exactly once.