Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

New Xbox Live Security Update Bans Cheaters

Posted by Zonk on from the off-with-their-heads! dept.

NiteStar writes "Major Nelson, the Xbox Live Director of Programming, has released a statement stating they have initiated additional security measures on the Xbox Live service. These measures are aimed to block out cheaters who used modifications to gain an unfair advantage over other players, such as faster cars in Project Gotham Racing 2. He also says "Modified consoles will be banned, and information about those banned machines will be tracked to prevent them from connecting to the service again." Thanks also to BlueMoon who wrote in to mention that "The Xbox enjoyed 53% market share among consoles in the UK last week."

48 comments

  1. So? by ASkGNet · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Certainly, one could follow common sense and don't connect with his modded XBox to Live.

    Alternatively, one could modify the Live component to always return Good, regardless of actual status

  2. xbox cd-key? by Ziak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Anyone who has installed linux on there xbox knows that you have to back up your x-box key... before you do any HD changes just incase you lose it.... so how easy is it to just get a generator.... if you get banned just changed the xbox key

    --
    Loading Please Wait....
    1. Re:xbox cd-key? by wolfmanXUG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually you would have to get a new eprom as that is or at least was the way each xbox was banned, but the actual xbox live account was not banned. Now if you did not replace the HDD with a larger one, and boot without the mod chip on I do not see how they can detect if you have one installed.

    2. Re:xbox cd-key? by Have+Blue · · Score: 1

      I expect that if people evading bans becomes a problem, they'll simply start banning by gamertag. That will cost you real money to replace, since you'd need a new subscription code.

    3. Re:xbox cd-key? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft has a list of all valid keys (see my post above). You can't unban yourself without another Xbox's valid key, so you might as well buy a new Xbox.

      Funny how Microsoft's banning policy just costs them more money by making people buy more Xboxes. They really should just use their security measures to not let you online until you turn them off.

      Melissa

  3. Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    first post? no...but anyhow, it sounds like a great idea that i wish would work with Steam for example. How badly does cheating effect online gaming? Do people stop playing games because of cheaters? How has cheating effected you?

    1. Re:Meh. by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      Cheating completely ruins games.

      On the PC side, I absolutely hated cheaters...and just the thought that someone *might* be cheating, made it a lot less fun to play.

      On the Xbox, when people found a cheat for Rallisport Challenge on-line, I stopped playing. It's no fun when it isn't competitive.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    2. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, this RalliSport cheat has nothing to do with what Microsoft is saying. The RalliSport cheat is done without any modification to the system at all.

      Melissa

  4. Hacking the real issue? by (SM)+Spacemonkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article seems to suggest the justifcation for these bans is hacking. However they are blanket banning everyone with a modified console. People don't mod their xbox so they can hack. They mod their xbox, so they can play copied games, or a media centre. I think, the issue is, microsoft loses a large chunk of money on each xbox sold, and tries to make up for it with volume on games sold. If people are buying their xbox to mod, and not buying the games to cover it, microsoft loses money. If it was merely about hacking, they could just ban by instance of hacking, not potential to hack. I support your right to mod your xbox, it is, after all, yours. But it also seems logical that microsoft has the right to only offer the live service for the equipment they choose.

    1. Re:Hacking the real issue? by JorDan+Clock · · Score: 1

      Exactly. They are just using cheaters as the scapegoat.

      There's nothing wrong with a company, even Microsoft, to want to turn up a profit on a product. This is there little way of helping keep the profit margins on the Xbox in the black, or away from deep red.

      Just another reason not to mod my Xbox...

    2. Re:Hacking the real issue? by aafiske · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dunno about the money issue. The thought process I would go through would run something like this:

      You can't cheat unless you have a modded xbox. So if all modded xboxes are blocked, there can be no cheaters.

      Otherwise, how would you detect cheating? Each game would have to have logic built in for that. Logic which could, of course, be hacked. They really seem to want to have a fun experience with Live, and cheating seriously harms that. They get money when people buy games because their friends say 'Dude, this game is so fun, and unlike the PC, there's no cheaters!' At least I do.

    3. Re:Hacking the real issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How dare MS ban people with modded X-boxen and pirated games. You would almost thing they are running a business......

    4. Re:Hacking the real issue? by MMaestro · · Score: 1
      Hacking isn't the issue, its what potential follow-ups that come along with it. Turn your Xbox into a media center? Chances are Microsoft says, 'Fine whatever, but we're gonna parade you around with the millions of others saying "hey look at how many systems we sold! We have a huge market share!"'

      What Microsoft doesn't like its the possibility of you creating a cheating program and taking it onto Xbox Live. You cannot ban someone 'by instance of hacking, not potential to hack' because it sets up a bad example. By this logic, we shouldn't go after terrorists until they actually do something. We shouldn't arrest people who try to hire gunmen for hire because the person hasn't been killed yet. If I had a program which could bring down the entire Xbox Live network and I announced it beforehand, should Microsoft bring law enforcement down on me before I use it? Of course!

    5. Re:Hacking the real issue? by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can cheat without a modded X-Box. Run it through a proxy and have the proxy do the cheating. Some networked PC games act like this, you can run the proxy on the same box or on another.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    6. Re:Hacking the real issue? by jayhawk88 · · Score: 1

      If it was merely about hacking, they could just ban by instance of hacking, not potential to hack.

      Yeah, let's hire several dozen full-time technicians to continually ban and re-ban individual players who are cheating, rather than just taking care of the problem in one fell swoop by banning modified XBoxes.

    7. Re:Hacking the real issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, let's hire several dozen full-time police officers to continually arrest and re-arrest individual citizens who are breaking the law, rather than just taking care of the problem in one fell swoop by dropping the nuke.

    8. Re:Hacking the real issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "By this logic, we shouldn't go after terrorists until they actually do something."

      Oh, so you're one of these people trying to move in a 'preemptive' direction.

      Hope you can find your minority report.

    9. Re:Hacking the real issue? by johnnliu · · Score: 1

      I'm certain when someone hacks their XBox they've broken some terms & conditions that they've signed away when they purchase the hardware.

      If not, I'm sure, they've signed it away when they sign up XBL.

      Either way, Hacked XB = !XBL

  5. Alternatively, by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    one could successively mod one's X-box to look like the entire X-Box population, getting it completely banned.

    1. Re:Alternatively, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't do that. Each individual Xbox has a secret 16 byte key that is randomly assigned to it at the factory. It is this key that they ban.

      Melissa

    2. Re:Alternatively, by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      So plug the results of a RNG into the key and you're bound to get some of them, and create a huge database headache for Microsoft.

    3. Re:Alternatively, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And other than being a complete asshole, the point to this would be?

      I have no problem with people modding their xboxes, but when it comes to trying to ruin my ability to use MY xbox online, that's when you've gone too far.

    4. Re:Alternatively, by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      The point to this would be to encourage microsoft to stop banning mods because it would become futile.

    5. Re:Alternatively, by ASkGNet · · Score: 1

      What I meant was - since the XBox 'validity' check (for mods as an example) is based on data sent to their servers by YOUR XBox, it is possible to modify said data (by reverse-engineering the Live adapter, finding any and all public keys they use to encrypt the data, et cetera). The fact that the XBox is at the house of the customer is Microsoft's weakest link. Remember the Blizzard games, where the Battle.net servers performed a CRC check on the executable and cut you off when the exe did not match one of the known checksums? Same exact thing - loaders were made to load a cracked exe (to allow one play without a cd in their drive) and reroute all CRC checks to the unmodified executable.

      Now we must only wait until somebody will feel bold enough to execute such a feat :)

  6. I have not experienced cheating yet by MacFury · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I have not experienced cheating yet, However...I have experienced total idiots...AHH!!! Why does everyone turn into an obscenity screaming team killing fool when the play through Xbox Live? I go on to have some fun and I spend half the time reporting pricks to M$.

    It wasn't that bad on Rainbow Six, but it is terrible on Star Wars Battlefront.

    1. Re:I have not experienced cheating yet by evilmousse · · Score: 3, Funny


      heh.

      http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=89
      http: //www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=46

    2. Re:I have not experienced cheating yet by KevinKnSC · · Score: 2, Funny
      Even more to the point:

      John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory

  7. damn! by maddh · · Score: 4, Funny

    I had that 'Naked Master Chief' hack all ready for Halo 2 online.

    1. Re:damn! by Angband's+Bane · · Score: 1

      Why's this modded Troll? Thats funny as hell. Can I get a copy? -Ang

    2. Re:damn! by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      That got me to wondering...is there a mod where a picture one of the DoA characters appears in the place of the Master Chief?

  8. Ooo, suckers by Zareste · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Modified consoles will be banned, and information about those banned machines will be tracked to prevent them from connecting to the service again.

    Heh, "Oh, just this once, I'll buy a game system from the world's most psychotic computer company. What's the worst that could happen?"

    'Course I'm not one to complain, I actually bought a PS2. It doesn't read disks now. The ONE time I steer away from Nintendo and it bites me in the ass...

    --
    I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
    1. Re:Ooo, suckers by Babbster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There isn't one psychotic thing about keeping modded consoles off Xbox Live. The bottom line is that if cheating becomes rampant, as it is with other hardware, then Xbox Live as a service is worthless. As it is, with Microsoft aggressively trying to keep cheaters off the system, it's worth the $4-5 a month (at least by the yearly fee) to subscribe for a stable, cheat-free environment.

    2. Re:Ooo, suckers by Zareste · · Score: 1

      I know they have to keep cheaters out, but they said modified consoles are banned. Whether or not it modded to cheat looks like it couldn't matter less. Sounds like yet another excuse to screw anyone who doesn't leave their console alone like good little kids.

      --
      I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
    3. Re:Ooo, suckers by Babbster · · Score: 1
      Yes, exactly. Why should Microsoft be expected to keep track of specific modifications made and the intentions of said modifications? Anyone who mods their console, or buys a modded console, KNOWS, RIGHT UP FRONT, that unless they have a switch to turn off the modification and use the native Xbox BIOS they may be banned if they attempt to use Xbox Live. Note that Microsoft doesn't send some evil virus/trojan down the line to destroy the modded console, nor have they sent police to the door of someone who's logged on to Live with a modded Xbox. All they've done is barred that console from their online system.

      An analogy can be drawn to an individual or company which denies internet connections from a computer suspected to be running unprotected because it might be a security risk. Said remote computer might not ever do anything bad, but if one believes it COULD be a security risk, it's perfectly reasonable and prudent to deny access. Open e-mail relays would be another example. You might warn the owner of said computer/address that they may be banned from access (as Microsoft has done many times with the modding situation), but nobody would blame a person for cutting off said open relay/unsecure computer before it has a chance to do damage or cause an inconvenience.

      The bottom line is that an unmodded (either soft or hard) Xbox can't run unsigned code. The purpose of most (I don't know if there are actually mod chips which only allow region-free operation while still not running unsigned code, so I'll leave the "most") mod chips is to do exactly that. This means that, if Microsoft didn't actively try to stop it, people could insert cheats into their games and blow Xbox Live apart at the seams. Microsoft is, for once, being PROactive. I, for one, will choose to applaud them for it instead of twisting it into yet another reason to hate the company.

    4. Re:Ooo, suckers by bugbread · · Score: 1

      [i]Heh, "Oh, just this once, I'll buy a game system from the world's most psychotic computer company. What's the worst that could happen?"[/i]

      "I could be prevented from using my XBox online just because I've installed hardware that allows to cheat."

      Cry me a river. If they said, "We will disable the use, both online and offline, of XBoxes that are modded", or "We will send people to your house to fine you for EULA infractions", you might have a case. Instead, they're saying, "We're not going to allow people on steroids to compete in this sport".

  9. Action Replay by Araxen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does this mean they'll ban people who use this device? If they do there will not be many people left on Xbox live.

    1. Re:Action Replay by JimmehAH · · Score: 1

      They'll ban people who use an Action Replay online.

      No problem using one offline but it's not really fair if you use it to cheat against other people, is it?

    2. Re:Action Replay by jkeyes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually the Action Replay for Xbox is just a glorified save manager program the only real cheating that can be done is with the Evo-X Trainer engine.

  10. I'm pretty sure that by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    there's no way to detect the physical presence of a modchip per se; they're looking for a modded BIOS and/or a modded game. If you install a modchip with multiple BIOS banks and switch to the original (MS) BIOS before going to Live, I'm pretty sure that they won't notice. That should save the people who use XBMC, Cromwell (Linux boot only), alternative BIOSes like EvoX solely for the emulators, etc.

    Besides, there's no reason to ban non-modded boxes with a third-party BIOS chip (it isn't really a modchip now, is it?).

    1. Re:I'm pretty sure that by Have+Blue · · Score: 1

      They can and will ban Xboxes that don't match the default configuration from the factory. A software mod is still an alteration.

    2. Re:I'm pretty sure that by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      Yes, but an Xbox that's running the original BIOS through a modchip, provided there are no other mods (bigger HD, etc), is indistinguishable from an unaltered Xbox. If you run the original BIOS when you play online, there is no software mod, and it is on the default configuration. My point was that if you've got a multiple-bank modchip, make sure one of the banks is the original BIOS, and provided you haven't changed anything else, yours is, to the servers, an unmodded Xbox.

      Just use XBMC for media, Cromwell for Linux apps, and/or EvoX for single-player or emulated games. Keep the original BIOS for Live!.

  11. They can detect HD size differences ... by Viewsonic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Which is usually the first thing anyone mods on their XBox .. More than likely anyone who dumped a larger drive in their system will be banned right along with those whose BIOS doesn't match up correctly, or those whose dashboard isn't the correct checksum either. There are so many ways they can run checks against a system being modded it isn't funny.

  12. Banning modded consoles by Chuq · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Modified consoles will be banned, and information about those banned machines will be tracked to prevent them from connecting to the service again."

    I've always wondered how this was supposed to be a threat? I'm not a heavy online gamer, in fact I hardly play online, and haven't done it since I had my xbox modded a month ago, so it doesn't mean a huge amount to me. But when they deal out threats like the above line, it means there are two options:

    * They don't ban me, I continue paying A$8.95 a month, and can play my occasional online game and run XBMC
    * They ban me, they don't get my $8.95 a month. I continue playing games (though not online) and continue running XBMC.

    (Not to mention, the fact that copied games can be played offline, but not online, means that people like me may be more likely to just copy games if they aren't allowed to play online.)

    So they are threatening to not take my $8.95 a month? And that disadvantages me.. how?

    XBMC is a far greater benefit than XBL.

    --
    - Chuq
    1. Re:Banning modded consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, stop paying your $9.85/month and use XLink Kai.

      http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/

      Works with all platforms, all games. For the XBox, basically it makes the "System Link" option work across the Internet. I've used it personally, and can attest it works very well.

    2. Re:Banning modded consoles by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      It's not really intended to disadvantage you (unless, of course, you like playing on Live) so much as to instill confidence.

      One of Xbox Live's draws is that they're really really tough on cheaters, and that you can be pretty much assured of having a 'fair' playing field.

      By taking this sort of action, they hope to draw more people in; the people who are tired of playing SOCOM or Phantasy Star or whatever, with the rampant cheating and what not.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    3. Re:Banning modded consoles by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If you really want XBMC and XBL in the same house you can always buy a used Xbox, or wait until they come down to $99 new (only a matter of time) and buy one then. Personally I could give a fuck about XBL, there hasn't been a console game yet that I felt a need to play online. (I don't play FPS games without kb+mouse, although lik-sang does have that new widget to let you do that on Xbox. However, I don't feel like spending $40 for the privilege.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  13. Offtopic: Broken PS2 by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

    You can probably get your PS2 fixed for free (minus shipping), assuming you live in the US. Sony lost a class action lawsuit because of their crappy drives, so they fix them for free as a punishment. Check out the Disc Read Error Sony Repair FAQ here (no direct linking allowed).

    And like others noted, you are pretty wrong on your Xbox complaint. This is to prevent cheating, which 95% of Live users are very, very happy to support!

    --
    There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  14. Just because....... by creaturespeaker · · Score: 1
    Um, just because ways might exist to get around the Xbox mod checks does not mean its "futile". Anything that reduces the amount of cheaters is a good thing.

    Free Flat Screen HERE!