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Microsoft Just Wants a Little Look
waynegoode writes "Do you want to let Microsoft check if your copy of Windows is legit? How about if they promise it's anonymous? How about if they give you some free stuff? Recently Microsoft launched their Genuine Advantage Program to let you (and Microsoft) check if your OS is legal. They hoped for 20,000 responses but received 800,000 without offering anything but piece of mind. Now they are throwing in a bunch of free and discounted stuff including Photo Story 3 and the Holiday Fun Pack to try to get more volunteers. Read more at news.com and Microsoft Watch."
If I pirated windows, why wouldn't I pirate this too?
If anything, give away a tshirt or a hat or some other convention junk.
Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
Ewww... does it at least come in a plastic baggie?
I've had this sig for three days.
Thay can check out my Debian!
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
...then will come harassment and demands to look and that will just drive people away from Windows towards Linux.
Bullying people into buying a $15 CD might work, but $200 is a lot more, esp. when there are alternatives.
no thanks - i'll stick to open-source goodness.
But it would probably be rather easy for M$ to keep a nice tidy database of who has "legit" windows vs. those who don't. Also, this could, with trivial modification, be used to detect duplicate product activation keys....might it be something along the lines of a means to find these keys for a future crackdown?
The article states that there is "no 'stick' as yet", and perhaps there never will be any official action taken against those with pirated copies who foolishly enough decide to tell Microsoft about it. [ After all, if they suddenly started sending out flying attack squads of lawyers, that would make for some bad press. ] However, how long will it be before such a check is integrated into the OS, and checked every time the computer goes online? It certainly wouldn't be that difficult to program in such a "feature', with the added bonus of locking down the system should the results not be acceptable.....
At any rate, it makes me sort of pity all those poor windows users who are going to get screwed over...and makes me very glad that I don't use windows.
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure dome decree
From their site:
Using genuine Microsoft software ensures that you get world-class reliability, security, and support...
I don't think I need to comment on the reliability and security issue around here. But I have a strange feeling if Microsoft really gave
"world-class" support, half of Slashdot's readers would be out of jobs. I think they need to come up with a more realistic explanation of why it's worth spending 300 dollars for Windows.
C'mon kids, check and see if your windows copy is legitimate. I've got candy...
Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
It's not so much for Joe user with his activation crack. I have a feeling this is more-or-less sniffing out people who use the Corp. Edition that is activation-free and thereby never needs to be registered, etc. and can run Windows Update to begin with (I've not yet found a copy of Home or Pro that can get on Windows Update "safely").
They may not shut down your copy but you can bet they'll look into the company that bought that strand of registration keys that you just so happen to be piggy-backing on.
While you might have to trust that they're not going to try to hunt you down, it really does seem at this point that they are simply seeking to inform unsuspecting users that they may have received an illegit copy of Windows from a retailer. Most people who are intentionally pirating, aren't going to try to validate it. The focus of this campaign isn't try to catch Joe-Bob that loaned his copy to his sister, it's trying to get consumers who bought a copy of Windows at the corner PC store to go back and demand a legit copy.
I was going to run it, but it doesn't work under Mozilla. Oh well.
What?
(posted as AC to protect my identity)
I have bought enough Dell's to have windows XP CDs out the ying-yang, but I hate having to go through the activation process each time I format a PC. I own licenses for each computer, all I want is a clean windows installation with no Dell OEM crap. So this is what I did:
1) Downloaded the Devil's 0wn corp version of windows.
2) Slipstreamed SP2 into the install CD.
3) Downloaded a keygen for SP2.
4) Installed Windows with serial from keygen.
I just downloaded Microsoft's authentication tool, and it said my copy was valid. I can download updates, their crappy photo software, and everything else. Im sure Microsoft is throwing millions of dollars into R&D to create this elaborate activation and serial number system, and yet their own tool says my obviously pirated copy is valid. Way to go.
Because there is actually a way to generate a new key so that you look at least somewhat legit. At least enough to let you update, install service packs, the whole deal, as far as anyone can tell. If Microsoft knows you're a pirate... that's anyone's guess.
Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. -Anonymous
Posted anonymously to protect my job.
Microsoft isn't going after the end users with this program. They honestly don't care whether you personally bought and paid for Windows, because face it, no one goes to Best Buy and plunks down $100 - $300 for an operating system. The goal of this program is to show the value to users of having a genuine copy of Windows. Create "mindshare" if you will, that genuine Windows has greater value than your borrowed/downloaded/pirated copy. This will hopefully, in turn, encourage users to demand genuine Windows when they buy a PC. Again, face it, when people buy a new PC, they buy Windows. Most never upgrade after that. By creating users who ask for genuine Windows when they buy a PC, Microsoft can indirectly assert pressure on small OEM's and System Builders, where the largest amount of counterfeit Windows is sold to unsuspecting users. Even Microsoft realizes it's unfair to punish users who honestly believe their copy of Windows is legit.
You'll notice that those who fail validation are asked to provide (largely generic) information regarding their PC and their purchase. They get a 'courtesy key' in most cases that allows them access to the content (creating the image of a kinder, more benevolent Microsoft). It also goes straight into a reporting database where Microsoft can track trends like which resellers are selling large amounts of counterfeit copies of Windows.
Regardless of your software ideals, stealing software is wrong, and it's certainly within Microsoft's rights to restrict premium content to genuinely licensed copies of Windows. Validation isn't locking any genuinely licensed users out of any content; in fact, a large percentage of those people with counterfeit licenses will still be able to access downloads. Microsoft has also committed to allowing all counterfeit licenses to access critical security updates via Automatic Updates, probably so they don't get lambasted in the press for "denying users security fixes."
I'll try to answer any further questions that get posted as a reply to this post.
This isn't aimed at those who know they aren't legit. This is targeted to those who purchase a PC from some 3rd rate shop and want to check that the cd they were given is authentic.
You should have contacted your manufacturer and demand they send you a proper CD Key for your computer; obviously this is a quality issue at their factory (wrong CD Key with install). Also, they will usually ship you a set of CDs if you request them, at no charge. Just convince them the partition holding the HDD Image is corrupt if they give you crap.
What?
You know, this really makes me wonder.
The whole point of making users "activate" a new installation of Windows is to discourage the use or distribution of pirated copies. It didn't really work. The honest people stayed honest, but were inconvenienced. And the pirates kept pirating.
I might guess that activation is probably something of an inconvenience to MS as well. It didn't work as well as they had hoped, and in fact they had to keep track of illegitimate or "leaked" product keys in addition to the good ones. And it still hasn't stopped piracy.
So now MS is throwing "carrots" out to people in an effort to weed out illegal copies of Windows. They haven't said just what they're going to do with the data they've collected, or how they'll expect users to deal with it. More work for them, and potential pain for those that thought they had purchased legal copies of Windows, but didn't.
I don't know if I have a point... but this all just looks bad to me, and does seem to make product activation more and more of a hassle for everybody all around. It just seems to escalate, and I wonder if this is a case of diminishing returns. Maybe it gives MS some benefit (perhaps the marketing people get good data out of it somehow), but discouraging piracy doesn't seem to be one of them, from what I can see.
sigh
Read my post further up, i was wondering the real motivation for this.
Regardless of your software ideals, stealing software is wrong
hHere in my country, a 'developing" nation I'd wager the piracy rate(for MS) is at 70-80%. Roll back 5 years ago,, it'd be near 100%.
Piracy has actually helped MS entrech its position. Nowadays, the instances of non MS OS or office(in the office) software is still near 0%.. All "pirates" who uses MS in the past(i.e Univ) is now working, and they wouldn't be interested in learning about new "tools"
I'd wager MS would not view 'stealing' that led them to a dominant position is wrong.
IMHO all developing or poor nation starts with 100% piracy rate, as they gradually become more prosperous the rate will go down. The softwares most pirated will benefit the most from this growth.
Timang tinggi tinggi
parang sudah asah
alang alang mandi
biar sampai basah
exactly. However much MS would like to run down every joe schmoe with a pirated copy of windows (3.11 through 2003 server) they are more likely to be going after companies that sell computers with non-legit copies of winXP.
I wonder how many stores are selling computers with xp corp. and generated keys just so they can undercut the competition or make an extra buck?
As for the free software.. no one was going to buy it anyhow, so why not give it out as a perk? I think my parents might be getting some legitimate crappy photo software this week, for free.
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Well, some people pay for their licences but get pirated software.
h arged_with_pirate_supply/
The Reg had an amusing story of how some police forces got caught out..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02/19/dealers_c
Interesting either way though.
Since I am an extremely savvy and smart customer I shall certainly enroll in this program.
Just imagine how nice the Holiday Fun Pack will look at my recently purchased time share appartment in Cabo San Lucas.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
How is it evil to want to find people selling illegally copied software as legit? Look, if I pay for something, I expect it to be legit, as in I expect it to be what I wanted, made by the company, not stolen, etc. If I go and and buy something from a store, I expect that it's not stolen good. Likewise, if I buy software, I expect it's a legit copy, not an illegal one.
Look, you can argue that people should be allowed to make copies of software you have and distribute them. That is a defensible alternate view of copyright. However to sell software as legit when it's not, that's just fraud. We are talking about bussinesses lying to consumers to make extra money.
No, I'm not more knowlegable, but like many on /. I too have an opinion ;)
Early adoption of Dos/Windows by 'casual' pirates is why Microsoft penetrated the market so quickly. (Tipping point again!)
Microsoft made HUGE leaps in market share by using "educational discounts" and having ineffective copy protection (for retail/business/edu versions). This merely accelerated the adoption process.
Bulletproof copy protection at a crucial time, like, say Windows 3.1/3.11 would have forced people to shell out hard cash for an OS, and would have allowed room for real market competition from the likes of OS/2, or the Apple hardware/OS bundle (granted, the Apple setup had its own lock-in woes). Instead, they played the crack dealer ("First one's on the house,kid") and reap the benefits of users' unwillingness to change to something new, and presented Industry with a workforce more conversant in the Microsoft Way. Eventually, people want the next version/office suite so bad, they're willing to pay for it.
It was a win/win for MS, and the consumers who are getting boned today are only doing so because, well, it's a habit.
one better than mcleodeight
By pirating Windows, you're supporting Microsoft domination on the desktop.
Justify your actions all you like, but in the end you're just helping Bill Gates while he's laughing all the way to the bank.
out of curiosity after reading slashdot, I thought I'd give it a go:
"Unfortunately we are unable to automatically validate your Windows installation. It appears that you are using an operating system that is not currently supported by the Windows Genuine Advantage validation process. We hope that you'll return later to retry the validation process so that you may enjoy the full benefits of genuine Microsoft software.
"
Guess what? Windows ME is on the computer I tested with!
Here's some free clue for you: "support" doesn't mean they'll come administer your servers for free, or write your programs for you. Which is what would put people out of job.
It means you can call when you have a problem.
And "world class" is a very relative term. Support from most companies is a sick joke nowadays. Support people are something like taxes: you pay them because you have to, but you don't want to pay a cent more than you absolutely have to. So the ones hired are the cheapest monkeys who can read a bulleted list. Occasionally even the right bulleted list, but no biggie if they read the grocery list instead.
So it's not even hard for MS to actually be in the top tier. You know, the thing about the one-eyed man among the blind.
E.g., having spent the last 2.5 years dealing with WebSphere, which is a buggy unfinished sick joke if you actually use EJBs. And reporting the bugs to IBM. Now IBM's WebSphere support is enough to drive one neurotic, to drinking, or both. And we're not talking support to end-(lusers) but to a big corporate client.
It's a feat just getting past the mindless check-list reading drones. They don't even read what we send them. The first _weeks_ are spent just with them sending us canned "solutions" off their check lists, that don't even match what we wrote in the bug description. That idiotic.
And once you got past those, it's like dealing with a corporate sized Wally (from the Dilbert comics.) It's an endless delay tactic. Including, but not limited to, asking if they can close the bug report just because they want to go on vacation. (No, I'm not making this up. It's too sad to make up, folks.) Or sending us a Jar file as a "fix" that didn't solve the problem, or one even broke WebSphere completely. Or once, after such a "fix" didn't solve the problem, they sent us the exact same file again, as the new "fix".
Or to get you an idea of software quality: they never run the tests we send them to reproduce the problem, and obviously don't have any test cases of their own.
An annoyed coleague finally actually asked them what test cases they used to prove they fixed the problem, 'cause their fix did nothing for us. The answer? A longer version of "no, we didn't actually test it, we didn't even reproduce the problem, but we're confident that we've fixed it. And we thatk you for testing it for us." (Again, I'm not even making it up. They thank us for acting as testers for them.)
Or here's one actual support case that didn't involve a bug: Another team needed to import a SSL certifficate to get IBM's WebSphere Portal Server to talk to another server. So they ask IBM. After getting nowhere with the phone support, they actually pay a big heap of money to get an IBM "consultant" to come show them.
Again, not some underpaid, overworked telephone support slave. A consultant. IBM consultants cost a small fortune.
So the consultant messed around with the server for a _week_, and then said something to the effect of "uhh... I have no bloody idea. Try searching for key store files in all directories and importing your certificate in all of them. It's got to be one of those. I have no idea which, though."
Sad.
So, well, again, it's not even hard for MS to be better than such clowns. It may not be the ideal support by the client's standards, but it's waay better than the sick joke you get as support from some other companies.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I think you are 100% wrong and I am surprised that with all the conspiracy theorists who post here no one has really put together that MSFT is making the move towards updates only for verified, activated copies and, likely, attempting to close the non-activation loophole for volume licensed copies with Longhorn (which is how Windows is pirated today). The "we just want to make sure you didn't ... er ... buy a copy that was pirated" line is crap.
... Ask you Mom to pay $500 for Office and see how she reacts (your Mother might be an OSS super-coder, so please just take the example as an example and don't be a prat). Piracy has always made commercial software pricing palpable & if the commercial software world wants to challenge that thesis, I really believe they do so at their peril.
They have to be careful and I think they know it. If you piss off mixed sites (household or business sites that have a mix or paid-for and pirated copies) you run a serious risk of migration to Linux (as Windows - or any OS - without updates is pretty worthless). Also, you have the old "you have some type of responsibility to your code" argument that was made around SP2. Not that I think MSFT gives a shit about the idea, but as a PR idea it is of value ("MICROSOFT CODE PLAGUES INTERNET DUE TO REFUSAL OF PATCH!").
In reality, I think the recent trend towards copyright-with-an-iron-fist-double-checked will likely backfire. If every Joe User and even every Bob SuperAdmin had to pay full price (even OEM) for every single copy of Windows & Office (and Photoshop and x and y and z) out there, you would see a serious exodus to Linux and related. Fuck security, fuck philosophy
Actually, I have thought for a while that if the OSS community wanted to heighten the Linux desktop penetration numbers, the best way would be to form a "We Hate Dirty Pirates" group and spend six/twelve months devising & implementing (for free) anti-piracy mechanisms for the Win32 platform. Come up with a killer scheme, and you would have done more than anyone for your platform.
If by that you mean "doesn't a particular copy of the software only accept a particular key", then no, that's not generally how it works. That would require that every single copy of the software that was shipped was different, which would hugely increase duplication costs (as you now can't just press them all based on a single master).
They way it works is that there's an algorithm that accepts an input string and checks some property of it - eg number of letters and numbers, add up the numbers and check their total (possibly modulo some other number), etc. Essentially, there is an algorithm that takes a string and says "yes, this is a valid key" or "no, that's garbage". That means that you can use any (valid) key with any copy of the software. It also means, if you can work out the algorithm, that you can *generate* valid keys. For example, if you know that the key has to be "letter letter letter number number number" then you know that AAA111, AAA112, AAA113, etc will all work, whether they've been issued by the software manufacturer or not.
I think the XP key checker is a little more sophistacted than that - I *think* that Home and Pro use different types of key, for example, and that the corporate site licence versions (which don't require product activation) use a third type of key. There may also be differences between full retail and OEM keys. (That's ok though, as Pro and Home are already different, and so require different duplication runs anyway, so there's no extra cost. OEM and full retail CDs are also different, at least as far as the writing on the CD goes.) That said though, at worst any retail XP Pro key will work with any retail XP Pro copy, and so on.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Full compliance with Microsoft licensing terms is good for FOSS. As long as people live with the misconception that Microsoft software is affordable, because they pirate it or don't bother buying the right version, Microsoft's proprietary formats will remain entrenched. Furthermore, people should also take into account the impact on TCO that attempts to comply with vendor restrictions have (I'm sure Microsoft doesn't count that in their TCO studies).
To put it differently, OpenOffice would probably have a big jump in market share if all the pirated or incorrectly licensed versions of MS Office wordlwide were replaced with OpenOffice.
Let's look at a few fun factoids, shall we?
1. AFAIK, XP is the primary version of Windows being sold by MS atm. There might be others for corporate peeps...Server 2003, etc...but I'm talking in terms of home users. ME is still *supported* AFAIK, but from what I read 95 isn't and I don't know about 98...but even if it is, it's not still generating MS money. So from what I can see, XP alone is pretty much where it's at in terms of current home user OS revenue for them.
2. There seems to be a fair amount of evidence that XP is currently being pirated to an insane degree. We know about MS bringing out Starter Ed in Asia to try and combat piracy there, and they had the serial number top 10 etc etc.
3. Although it's true that it is now at that stage of the game where from MS' point of view, pirate XP on someone's machine is still more desirable than legit Linux, (because of mindshare retention) they have been starting to feel (at least compared to what they're used to) a rather nasty profit pinch over the last year or two. Because of this, it's understandable that given where they are now, they're probably more interested in stopping piracy at the moment than they ever have been before...however, they're not likely to be successful IMHO because
4. They've destroyed/damaged consumer trust/credibility to the point where they're not going to be getting it back. Ever. For anyone who's been paying attention, Microsoft's list of crimes is a mile long, including violation of the Sherman Act, raping/destroying various other software companies and acquiring their software through dubious means, and more relevant to this particular topic, suspicion of engaging in various forms of surveillance of Windows users. I'm guessing Gates could quite literally donate his entire fortune to charity at this point and it wouldn't substantially improve most people's opinion of him. The PR crisis is actually Microsoft's biggest problem...Bigger than Linux...bigger than anything else currently challenging it. The plain and simple fact is that people passionately hate the company, in large numbers...or at the very least seriously distrust it...and it is utterly impossible to continue to successfully do business when the majority feel that way towards you.
Gates would do very well at this point to acquaint himself with what Machiavelli wrote about a leader who allows himself to become hated.
Because of this, however, I'm assuming that only the most gullible of casual users for the most part are going to go along with allowing Microsoft to check their copies of Windows...And I also have a feeling Microsoft know that. The line about improving reliability is one of their usual transparent-as-glass lies.
True, but if you have to go with Windows anyway -- for software compatibility reasons, for example -- then every buck you give them helps their domination even more.
That said, my primary OS is legit. But it happens to be made by Apple...
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
I also run a cracked copy of XP Pro. In fact, on quite a few machines. All my copies of XP are legitimately purchased. I just don't want to go through all the activation rubbish every couple of months when I change hardware in the machines they're installed on, and after a few times, having to call up Microsoft UK to explain that yes, this is the 12th time I've activated it, and no, it is only on one machine, but that the hardware in said machine keeps changing.
I do exactly the same thing with games: buy them, then download the no-cd crack. Why? So I don't have to shove the disc into a drive, often in another room, before I'm able to play the thing.
Companies shouldn't assume that everyone who's using dodgy/generated keys didn't legitimately purchase their software...
Nope, you've just reduced the incentive for the software authors to port to another platform.
Also consider this:
Wonder how many shops are reinstalling computers with XP Corp because the owner doesn't have / lost the original media and the computer had to be formatted. Telling them they're gonna have to shell out another hundred bucks for an OS is NOT a way to keep them happy
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
That is where the stronger conspiracy theory put forward does not work (although there probably is a conspiracy here somewhere). Remember, Microsoft actually encourage piracy of their products in some circles (where as they force big law-abiding users like governments to pay up) as this is the only way they can stop everyone from moving to a better OS. These facts have been well documented.
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]