Slashdot Mirror
What's Going On in Canada?
Jack Action writes "Up in Canada, the Privacy Commissioner of the province of British Columbia is recommending an immediate freeze on all outsourcing of public data to US-connected firms, Reuters and the CBC are reporting. After extensive consultations, the Privacy Commissioner has found that the USA Patriot Act threatens the private data of citizens even if they don't live in the USA (repeat: non-Americans are at risk). You can visit the Commissioners website, and download a summary or the full report." And reader digity writes "The long-standing Canadian battle on grey-market satellite dishes took a surprising turn in a Quebec courtroom yesterday. The grounds: freedom of expression. Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!"
Shouldn't that be: "What's going on in the USA?"
I should buy some cement.
Let me be the first to congratulate Canada on now being able to watch free DirecTV again. While us americans get sued for buying card programmers.
Let freedom ring.
The wording is kind of funny... The issue we had with the Patriot Act in BC is that various loopholes allow for the FBI/CIA/Secret Service/[insert conspiracy here] to obtain records and data on Canadian citizens working for US owned companies in B.C.. As well, (as far as I know) certain stipulations of the Patriot Act make it somehow illegal for these companies to tell their employees that they are being probed. Obviously, this is something most Canadians would object to. It's also something most Americans should be objecting to, but I guess it's the price you pay for 'Freedom'.
As a Canadian, I have to say that in many many ways, I never want to leave my country. The only reasons I could possibly have for going to the US are for work related reasons, or to visit a special someone. I don't really have any desire to leave Canada, as our country is actually a fair bit saner in my experience.
:)
So no, I wouldn't say that the grass is always greener.
At least this post is on-topic by making a comparison between the patriot act and being f#$@%& in the ass. I would have given it +5 insightful given the chance... :-)
Is it me or does it seem like the US is quickly losing it's place as the center of the business world? This seems especially true in the technology sector where anytime a company does something they have to look over their backs for some other company sitting on a patent, or a DMCA violation claim coming their way. This just seems like one more for the pile of reasons to do your business outside the U.S.
As a UK citizen, the US government has decided that it has a right to collect any information about me that it chooses, from any agency in the UK (because we are Americas lap dog and would never dream of saying no), and then use that info as it sees fit. My data is not protected in any way because I am not a US citizen.
Nice to see that Canada has the balls to stand up the the USA.
I assume this would be fairly common practice for some uses of that data, but basically: if you want to do anything with data, why not do it on-site? If some off-shore company was hired to process millions of government-held records, wouldn't the safest way be to let that company only produce software for that purpose, and 'apply' that software locally?
Can anyone give some compelling reasons why you would move that data itself (knowing that it's privacy-sensitive)? BTW: With 'off-shore' I mean any third party relative to the data involved.
In a world where Echelon is used for international corporate espionage, and where we've declared war on any country that we think is harboring terrorists, then why should anyone's privacy be protected?
Those damned pinko Canadians may be terrorists, and we need to protect ourselves.
Its ok, I have my tin foil hat. It keeps the government microwaves from reading my brain patterns.
Seriously folks, what does the patriot act allow the US government to do that it wasn't able to do before, just illegally? I mean, sure, it means they can do this stuff more in the open, but that doesn't mean that they weren't doing it before anyway.
The US Government has been the biggest customer of high-end computing firms for the past fourty years. What do they do with all that computing power? They use a lot of it to churn through the data we create. Not to look for ciminals, or mass murderers, or whatever - no - to look for people that could challenge the status quo, that could expose the real people behind the governments of the last fifty years who control the American people.
Come on, you've seen the X-Files! Its all real! ALL of it! NON FICTION, I tell you!
Are you ready to believe? TRUST NO ONE!
Firms in India are setting up shop in Canada as a front for their offshoring operations. Our confidential information that crosses in to Canada ends up in India. Canada's confidential data that crosses in to the United States ends up in... well, probably India.
Folks, we're witnessing a major coup. In the century where Information is Power, all of the information is going to one country - India! India is the new world power.
I found out that my Bank Visa card is vulnerable to this sort of crap because they've outsourced data management to an american firm. Guess what card just got the scissor treatment?
If enough Canadians who value their privacy take similar action we might see some amendments to the patriot act introduced. Fighting terrorism, etc. has been, and always will, be of secondary importance to the american government. It's business that really matters to them, and we're one of the few nations on Earth that do enough trade with the U.S. to place an effective ammount of pressure on them to do away with laws that compromise the privacy of citizens from other countries. At the very least we can pressure them into modifying the patriot act so that it only effects U.S. citizens. After all, did we elect Bush?
Okay okay... We don't really know who or *if* Bush was elected, but we damned well know it wasn't us who did it!
Hey, it's your right to live in a country which the rest of the world increasingly sees as the evil big brother. It's your right, to accept all it comes with it. And it's your right to call the article FUD-spreading. And it's my right to say you're one of those stupid AC's.
I just don't like a world where every sw developer who writes 2 lines of code needs to have bad dreams and his purse ready because some US big boy may come down on him at dawn. Where 2 friends can't share their stuff because some US or US-licking association could long for their money or threaten them otherwise. Where one can't copy an officially bought disk and give it to the little sister. Where my personal and communicational data can be freely snooped by US or US-licking agencies. Where for some words or a bad day and a sweating face one can be held for hours on a US/UK airport. Where one has to smile and finger the device (pun intended) like an ordinary criminal to enter a free country.
I won't go on, I'm picky this morning.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
And, just to piss off some neocon Bush babies who hate our freedom even more: remeber, we're half French!
Ô Canada!
Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits!
Whoo! Aaaaargoooos!! Strike, Leafs, strike!!!
Like take for example the case of medical data going o subcontractors in india, that data is handled unde r their (nearly nonexistant) laws in that regard.
The fact is, for some sort of data to be protected in todays world, you have to make sure not only of making laws on the data protection, but also put in proper limits of where it can be handled.
The European union Personal data directives try to make rules on this, forbidding transfer of such data outside EU.
Too bad they caved in to US pressure on airtrafic part of it...
I for one welcome our new pro-privacy overlords!
Bloggy Goodness
Typical to automatically assume the word citizen refers to American Citizens. The wording is a little off, but it is pretty clear they are referring to Canadian Citizens working for US-Owned corperations.
--- "End Of Line" - MCP
The US is no longer considered the ideal place for many types of businesses, and anti-american sentiments are definitely growing in europe and asia.
With more and more privacy-invading legislation being installed, the US will rapidly become unusable to any business that has trade secrets to protect, or deals with private customer data.
Canada has put in a nice document with recommendations what most of the world already knows and acts on.
Y'all make secession from the US to the Great White North awfully tempting...
I'm actually surprised Canada would have a law like the satellite dish law on the books to begin with. And hopefully with the amount of cross-border business done between the US and Canada the checkbook will do what the activists couldn't to the Patriot Act.
The power that this gives is huge. (Does some senior politician have a mistress or do private business with a drug dealer?--Amdocs has the information. Etc. And Slashdotters are surely familiar with data mining.) Many people have claimed that this power has been abused by the Israeli government--in particular, by Mossad--and such power obviously facilitates espionage. Whatever abuses have occurred, it seems insane to give this much power to a foreign agency.
For references and links to more information (there's lots, and it's downright scary), google for "Amdocs" and "Comverse Infosys".
From the summary: All levels of government in Canada must ensure that their laws are consistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that their policies and actions do not off end Charter protections. Several submissions suggested that putting British Columbians' personal information at risk of seizure under the USA Patriot Act might confl ict with privacy protection under the Charter. While we do not analyze this question, we acknowledge that Canadian courts require Charter values and rights to be considered in interpreting legislation such as BC's FOIPPA.
So I decided to look up this charter, and I found it. Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which goes to unusual lengths to tell the world that French and English are it's official languages.
Then I decided to look for the US Bill of Rights, which is located not on a website with the words "law" and "justice" in the URL, but rather on "archives.gov" and what I'm reading is a Transcript of the Bill of Rights, as if it's chronicling an event and not informing me of my rights.
And I noticed the transcript of the Fifth Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger , and I contrasted it with Canada's charter: 9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned. 10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor; b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful. Period, end of sentance, no "except."
Is America more interested in the history of it's laws than in the current reality? Are we, under the Patriot Act, in a constant state of "public danger" and therefore subject to being held, as I've heard people have been, without being told the crime they're being held for, with no court date, and no trial. What a strange, and convoluted time we live in that we are in a constant state of being the exception and not the rule.
Sounds good but commissioner Bolkestein considered the US statements about data protection sufficient. .
For this great feat he has just earned himself the Dutch Big Brother Award for 2004.
See Bits of Freedom
The European Parliament has called on the European Court of Justice to declare the agreement null and void, a ruling by the Court can at the earliest be expected by next year.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Anyone storing data about you must conform to the Data Protection Act, where it explicitly states "it is immaterial that it is intended to be so processed or to form part of such a system only after being transferred to a country or territory outside the European Economic Area". Your data IS protected because you are a UK citizen. The Data Protection Registrar takes any breaches very seriously and can be contacted via their web site.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
The best parts of it are the strip bars. Don't know what it's like now but 20 years ago we used to go up there just to spend the evening at Jason's or the Latin Quarter because the women were incredibly naked and incredibly beautiful and the exchage rate made it cheaper per dance or drink than going to an american bar right across the border. Walk down the street at 2AM and you could find old people out strolling or eating at a sidewalk cafe. And they have that great healthcare system and a penal system that seems to genuinely be about reform rather than revenge.
Don't want to leave canada? Just wait until a couple more generations get raised on that violent american TV you're so eager to import. Detroit is right across the river and, unlike the beer sellers at tiger stadium, the people who sell black market guns don't give a shit where you're from.
I do think making it illegal for someone to "import" american tv into their own home is absurd. Nice to see one government is figuring out prohibition never works. But no matter how stupid the law it's easy to see the motivation for it.
Better legalize that profitable black market drug trade before the culture shift moves in. The gunsellers are waiting...
When will the world realise that it does not have to take shit from the US?
When we realize we don't need shit from the US.
Obviously something needs to change. All this terror-paranoia is not normal. We, the Europeans, also suffered attacks in Madrid but we didn't pass laws like that. We didn't get mad. We do fight terror, but we do not destroy our civilisation of democracy and freedom just to catch some crazy terrorists.
I hope the USA legislators will understand that they can fight their enemies without undermining the privacy and freedom of Americans (and the world!). I believe that laws like PATRIOT aren't needed.
BTW I wrote a story with some more information here. As you can read, the probe started in May and produced a report consisted of more than 100 pages. The report was written by OIPC, a Canadian authority on privacy issues in British Columbia.
Remember than in Canada its also legal to share music and movies (as long as you don't sell them). Several provinces now allow gay marriage, and most politicians favour decriminalizing (though not legalizing) marijuana.
On the other hand, while many Canadians own rifles and shotguns, most of us are not allowed to carry concealed weapons; also, provinces are starting to ban smoking in all public places, and the federal government regulates how much foreign content radio and TV stations are allowed to show.
So, in brief, if you're an MP3-sharing, pot-smoking, gay privacy freak, c'mon up and join us; if you're a gun-toting, tobacco-smoking, Baywatch-watchin' law-and-order freak, you might be happier staying down in the U.S.
-snip- I never want to leave my country (sic Canada). The only reasons I could possibly have for going to the US are for work related reasons, or to visit a special someone. I don't really have any desire to leave Canada... -/snip-
Oh god, this can't-see-past-my-own-borders-clearly disease is spreading. There are other places on the planet worth considering going besides the US and Canada?
Still - at least you acknowledge there are two countries worthy of your thoughts - that's a whole 100% more than some.
(Note to author of post above, don't mean to make you feel bad, that probably isn't even what you meant, but, the gist of your post is "I never want to leave my country coz the US isn't for me" and didn't consider that there are thousands of other places on earth with a richness and diversity beyond imagination)
For those of you that think Canada is some free paradise, let me just immediately, as a Canadian, disavow you of that notion.
If Canada is being held-up as superior to America when it comes to freedom, compared to the United States, even in spite of recent attempts to limit freedom down there, then either people's definition of what freedom is has changed, or we have become so desparate as a civilization that we no longer know what up and what's down anymore. Canada is, socially, an extremely repressive country, especially these days. Forget about being an individual up here, coz it ain't on. If you do not conform to the prescribed standards, you are ostracized and marginalized. I see it all the time every day up here. We are not an innovative country, we don't like it. Anyone that tries to engage in it in Canada is looking for trouble, and it doesn't particularly matter what kind of innovation it is, they just don't like it here. You need only compare the Canadian and American constitutions to know what Canada is really all about. Americans have the "...right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Canadians have the "...right to peace, order, and good government". Wow, lucky us. Those are exactly the kind of conditions dictators have been providing since dictators have existed.
I once had an English professor of mine make the statement that "...people have this foolish notion that lifestyle is a human right". In other words, people have this crazy idea that they're allowed to live their lives as they wish (so long as they're not affecting others, of course), without fear of molestation from anyone. This man is about as deeply Establishment as anyone gets. He married into money, was born in Britain, has had a direct role in formulating federal and provincial government social policy in the past, has been the head of English departments in highschools and schoolboards. I could go on, because the list of his accomplishments is lenghty, and the reach of his influence is far, but you get the point.
Ask any average person in the middle class up here how they feel about a given controversial topic, and wonder at the conservative response you get. Speak in public say, in a cafe, about that same topic and observe the dirty "shut-the-fuck-up" looks you get. You are not entitled to your own opinion up here, or to even criticize. If you go there, you can expect direct, serious social consequences. Once I was talking, in a park, about a play my spouse and I had gone to see. I held a different view than everyone else about the central conflict in the story. Some lady that had been listening in, a complete stranger, had the audacity to approach me and order me to 'stop being so different, stop having a different opinion'.
THAT, my friends, IS Canada. Get in line, conform, and dont make a fuss. This attitude crosses generation, class, and gender lines. That is the truth of Canada and, in a greater sense, the world we live in today. If you are worried about your freedoms being taken away from you, my American friends, don't hold up Canada as a model of how things should be. Most Canadians regard indiviual freedom as dangerous, and only "OK" so long as they don't threaten the current established order. In other words, any antithetical opinion is automatically a threat, and must be quashed by any means neccessary.
Yaay! Let's glorify all the murderers who stand up to the US, and encourage them to keep killing!
Now, does that sound as silly to you as it does to me? If not, maybe you need to think about what you're saying a bit more, since encouraging mass murder is seriously messed up.
From reading the grandparent post, the point is being made about the Bush family and not the USA. While a president leads the country and should represent the country, it does not mean the he does not have an agenda that is independent of the wishes of the majority of the citizens.
You should realise just because someone is generally in the wrong, that they can still have good points. Also just because someone is generally right it does not mean they can't make bad points. In life you need to be able to learn as much as possible of the views of all sides, to make the best judgement possible - one source of information is not the same thing.
"understand and respect your enemy and you will be in a better position to deal with them".
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
I'm a Canadian citizen who recently lived in the US (Washington, DC) for three and a half months. I was planning on staying longer, but the Social Security Administration screwed up (read: lost) my application (I'm an American citizen also, having been born in Colorado, but I left for the sunny beaches of Canada when I was less than a year old).
I should have known that the SSA was going to botch my application when I had the following conversation with the woman processing my forms at the office:
Woman: Where did you live most of your childhood, sir?
Me: In Manitoba.
Woman: Where is that, sir?
Me: I think it's just north of North Dakota.
Woman: I thought that Canada was up there.
Me: It is.
Woman: *obviously confused* Then where is Manitoba?
Me: It's in Canada.
Woman: What province is that in, sir?
When I did finally move back to Canada upon discovering (after waiting nine weeks) that my application had mysteriously vanished, I have to say that I was utterly relieved to be back home in the land of healthcare (I couldn't afford coverage in the US, and that made me very nervous) and sanity.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have nearly as many religious fundamentalists as you guys have: I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who believed one of our politicians was ordained by god to bring freedom to the rest of the world.
We don't exploit our national symbols like the maple leaf in order to press propaganda: in the US, I went to the Bank of America, where they had a sign saying, "Due to the 9/11 attacks, we must request that valid photo ID be presented with all transactions." This message was printed on a watermarked picture of the American flag. Why? I do not know, but perhaps for those with a lower level of education, somehow seeing this picture makes this annoying negative request (which I fail to see a connection between and the 9/11 attacks) somehow okay.
We don't throw around buzzwords like "independence", "liberty", and "freedom". Walking through the streets of DC and seeing security guards on nearly every intersection, and walking past police officers armed with semi-automatic weaponry certainly didn't make me feel particularly safe or free. Frankly, I felt observed and under suspicion, even though I had no reason to feel as such. A concert held in the park was an "Independence Concert". A show on the National Mall was a "Liberty Art Show". It was ridiculous. What does an art show have to do with liberty? I support patriotism, but tempered with common sense and sanity. These ideals of American life are losing meaning through their overuse and through the laws passed since 9/11.
I also suspect that our poverty levels are far lower here in Canada. Living in DC on the edge of the projects, where every poor person was black was incredibly depressing. Trying to see people raise a two children family on a $15k / year salary was heart-wrenching. There are poor families in Ottawa where I'm from, but those are largely the people who pull in a combined household income of $40k / year, take public transportation, and maybe have their two children sharing a bedroom.
Our politicians don't prance their families around on stage like some kind of ideal of American goodness. Frankly, the only reason I know that Jean Chretien is married is because his wife recently made the news in a rather entertaining way. I mean, seriously, why do Bush and Kerry's children speak at the national conventions? What do they have to do with politics? How is their opinion remotely valid in the context of the parties, any moreso than yours or mine?
Additionally, Canadians seem to be less divided on issues like politics and religion. I tire of hearing the atheist vs. christian debate about words like, "In God We Trust" written on your money, and "Under God" in your pledge of allegiance. While I'm atheist in the sense I reject the concept of god, up here in Canada, we have the words, "God keep our land glorious and free" in our national anthem, but i
Oh, but it does. The US has over 700 military bases in over 130 countries, all strategically located of course, and another 6000 bases at home oriented towards exporting agression. There is an express military policy of being able to fight multiple engagements around the world simultaneously. That's shock and awe for you: the sudden realization that it is the american military, not the UN, that has a truly global presence. Pax Americana is here, and it is scary.
You can also look at the lobbying spirit with which american business is conducted around the globe; US foreign policy has a powerful mix of hard-ass negotiating government-to-government on behalf of corporate interests, and intergovernmental cooperation with a huge power imbalance (see above mention of bases). Combine that with the allure of consumption of US goods (including cultural forms), and you have a compromised position--you have to take it wherever they want to put it.
Damn those pesky terrorists
Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!
I must start off by saying that I love my beloved Canada -- but I just want to add a dose of realism to this discussion. Canada is not a freedom-lovers paradise by any means. We have our fair share of problems which don't happen to be in the spotlight as much as the USA transgressions on freedom because it's not so unusual.
(1) We don't have free speech in Canada.
Hate a group of people, and want to say it in public? You're breaking the law, as Hate Speech is a violation of the criminal code. That's right, you can get fined or thrown in jail for something you said because others find it hateful. Whether you agree with this or not, it's certainly not near the ideal of free speech attempted by the USA's first amendment.
(2) Our constitution has an exemption clause.
The USA Constitution is set in stone, and can only be overridden by an amendment which is a very difficult process. Canada's constitution has a built-in "or maybe not" clause, letting politicians willfully violate our Charter of Rights and Freedoms if they want to in a process much simpler than in the USA. Again, this has benefits as well as drawbacks, but there are no absolute protections for rights like the USA constitution enshrines.
(3) We have our own "anti-terror" violations of due process.
In the USA you have the PATRIOT act and Guantanemo Bay, but here in Canada we have "Security Certificates". These are used against Muslims -- er, make that evildoers -- who are suspected of terrorist activities. They are handed out by a secret court and a secret judge, and the accused is not allowed to see the charges levied against him or her.
(4) Our media regulator is trigger happy.
In the USA you've got Stern being targeted and fined by the FCC, but the situation in Canada is little better. We are far more liberal about nudity and sexuality -- it's not uncommon to see full male or female nudity on broadcast television and we have shows on our cable networks that need to be censored on USA cable networks. But if you say something deemed hateful, you're not welcome.
During the brief period Stern was broadcast here, he ran afoul of the hate crimes police for poking fun on French-Canadians. More recently, they tried to revoke the radio license of the most popular station in Quebec City because one of the DJs made some off-colour remarks that were deemed hateful.
Anyhow -- I want to reiterate that I love living in Canada, and that I prefer it to the USA. But many Americans are under the false belief that it is a paradise of freedom, but we have our own warts too and the full truth deserves to be out there so people can make informed decisions.
501 Not Implemented
I, whole-heartedly agree on this. Being a minority Canadian is not like being a minority American. Here I am treated like a human being first. Being brown in the US these days is not a pleasant thing. Even more disheartning is the Americans' inabilitiy to distinguish differnt races. A Sikh is not an Arab and an Arab is not a terrorist. Thats exactly the kind of attitude/violence/hate that begets the same.
But, I guess thats just the way it is down in US. I am Canadian and goddamn, I am proud to be one.
--
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."
-- Mohandas K. Gandhi
Its ok, I have my tin foil hat. It keeps the government microwaves from reading my brain patterns.
This is WRONG!! chrome is a government COLLABORATOR, pretending to be an informative rebel in order to feed us DANGEROUS disinformation. DON'T LISTEN TO HIM!!
Just to clarify: Even the BEST Tin Foil* hat CANNOT prevent the government from READING your brain patterns. Tin Foil is useful to prevent MIND CONTROL but is COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE at preventing MIND READING (more properly called MIND SCANNING). Do NOT make the MISTAKE of believing that you can think in SAFETY AND PRIVACY just because you're wearing Tin Foil.
If you want to be safe from MINDSCANS you need to ENCASE your head in at LEAST 1/4" of LEAD, or 1/16" of DEPLETED URANIUM. Also, make sure that there are NO CRACKS OR HOLES larger than 1/16". Yes this means that it's not possible to think and see at the same time. Some well-meaning FOOLS have claimed that lenses of LEADED CRYSTAL provide mindscan protection while allowing visibility but this is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.
Since you obviously CANNOT wear a lead helmet 24/7, anyone regularly thinking SUBVERSIVE THOUGHTS must also LEARN to CONTROL THEIR THOUGHTS WHEN UNPROTECTED! After YEARS of EXTENSIVE RESEARCH conducted in part by INFILTRATING the CIA, I have learned the ONLY way to do this EFFECTIVELY and AUTOMATICALLY. My method is based on the SAME techniques used to train CIA AGENTS to defend themselves against MINDSCANS. For only 26 LOW LOW monthly payments of $29.99 I will deliver DIRECTLY TO YOU a series of DVDs and PRINTED MANUALS that teach you QUICKLY AND EASILY to DEFEND YOURSELF agains MINDSCANS. I have to deliver these educational materials BY HAND, of course, because ALL of the postal and delivery services are TOOLS of the INTERNATIONAL CONSPIRACY HEADED BY THE ILLUMINATI UNDER THE GUISE OF THE UN.
Call quickly, supplies are limited.
* Pre-1987 Reynolds wrap is the best Tin Foil, by the way. Other brands were never sufficiently thick and post 1987 Reynolds has been modified at CIA REQUEST with MICROSCOPIC WAVEGUIDES that actually FOCUS the MIND CONTROL SIGNALS.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.