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Hardware That Recognizes You

Amit Upadhyay writes "Gizmodo is reporting about extra funding for smart guns at NJIT. Few have qualms about it, mostly on the line of: would optical sensor for finger prints work when the hand is soaked with blood? Would you get time to enter the override code in an emergency? But if we remove speculative emergency situations, the technology seems to be interesting. While checking out Fingkey Hamster what struck me was, this is one passkey I will not mind publishing on my webpage, and it can't be cracked, unless hardware tampering takes place. Kind of thing that you can put in all the car ignitions and lockers where password entry using keyboard can become too obtrusive."

23 of 472 comments (clear)

  1. The problem with biometrics by Control+Group · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The problem with biometric security is always the same: once it's hacked, you're Screwed(tm) (that's a security-industry technical term).

    Given that nothing is unbreakable/unhackable/unspoofable, the real danger is putting into widespread use something that people believe to be unbreakable/unhackable/unspoofable. When you go to court because your gun was used in a shooting, everyone will "know" that you did it, since "no one else can fire the gun." Except we all know that no system is perfect, and someone else could have.

    Just as bad is the case of identity theft; the more that biometrics become used to verify identity, the more vulnerable you are to having your identity easily stolen. After all, it's perfectly reliable, so there don't need to be any other checks. The fingerprint/retina scan/brainwave pattern says the person is you, therefore s/he is. Even worse, once your identity has been suborned in this fashion, you can't get it back, since you can't change it.

    You can potentially address this by adding something like a PIN or password into the system, but that loses both the supposed benefits of the biometric identification and simply shifts the burden of security back where it's always been: remembering a unique piece of information that no one else has.

    --

    Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
    1. Re:The problem with biometrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny
      When you go to court because your gun was used in a shooting, everyone will "know" that you did it, since "no one else can fire the gun." Except we all know that no system is perfect, and someone else could have.

      People: did we learn nothing from the Judge Dredd film!

    2. Re:The problem with biometrics by merphle · · Score: 5, Insightful
      You can potentially address this by adding something like a PIN or password into the system, but that loses both the supposed benefits of the biometric identification and simply shifts the burden of security back where it's always been: remembering a unique piece of information that no one else has.
      There are three forms of authentication.
      • Something you have (ID card)
      • Something you know (PIN)
      • Something you are (Fingerprint)
      From what I've read (Google the above terms, plus "authentication"), most people consider authentication based on any one of those insufficient. Authentication based on two of the above is generally sufficient, and based on all three is ideal.
    3. Re:The problem with biometrics by B'Trey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Horsefeathers, poppycock and fiddlesticks. Claptrap, horse puckey and bullshit. If someone breaks into my house, I have no way of knowing whether he's merely threatening my property or is a threat to harm or kill me and my family as well. I have every right to assume that he's armed and dangerous, and will use a weapon if he perceives he's threatened. I'm goint to do my best to hit him before he know's he's been busted and to hit him hard enough that he can't hit back. If I have a gun to hand, I'm going to shoot and shoot to kill. If I don't have a gun to hand, I'm going to try to cave his head in with a baseball bat or whatever else I can find.

      Of course, a great deal of it depends on the situation. If I'm not sure that I can get the drop on him, then I'll reevaluate the situation and determine what to do next. If he realizes he's been spotted and is running away, your viewpoint has some merit. He's demonstrated that he's no threat to me or mine. But breaking into my house is a violent act. He initiated the use of violence. I'm not going to be the tiniest bit concerned for the value of his life so long as I feel he's a threat to me or my family, and I'm going to assume he's a threat until he proves otherwise.

      --

      "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.

    4. Re:The problem with biometrics by Tassach · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Are you a parent?
      Do you own a gun?
      Have you ever been the victim of a violent crime?
      Judging from your rhetoric, I'd say the answer to all three is no. STFU until you know what you're talking about.

      OK Mr. Genius, here's a scenario for you: someone breaks into your house. They are downstairs, you are upstairs. How do you get yourself, your spouse, and two small children out of the house when the only way out is to go past the intruder? The answer is, you don't. You either call 911 and cower in a corner and pray that he doesn't hurt you or your kids before the police get there, or you take direct action and neutralize the threat.

      Is this a likely scenario? No. But it's possible, as are many others which would require the use of deadly force. Having a gun no more makes you rambo@home than having a fire extinguisher makes you fireman@home. Both are tools for dealing with a specific kind of emergency. If you're smart you hope you never have to use either one.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
    5. Re:The problem with biometrics by squisher · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Your argument is flawed in several ways:
      As several other replies have already pointed out, it is a lot easier with guns to kill, you can kill from a distance and this reduces the consequence you feel as a person of the result of the action.
      • The ONLY dangerous weapon is a person intent on doing harm. ANYTHING can be a weapon in the hands of someone who wants to harm you.

      While what you are saying is true, you forget that in most cases, it is not possible to know when someone simply intends to kill. However, when they have a gun available, they are able to do so more easily, as pointed out above.

      • We need better rock and pointy stick control laws! Think of the children!

      This is also a result of your faulty argument. All the examples of "killing instruments" you gave either occur in nature (rocks, fists, pointy sticks) and because of that can hardly be controlled, are used for other purposes besides killing (knives, baseball bats and plastic bags) or require significantly more training than guns to kill (bows). So, your mock argument to have pointy stick control laws does not make any sense at all. However, gun control laws do make sense, because with a pointy stick you cannot drive by a group of people and massacre them in an instant or have these nice school shootings that I'm sure you heard about.

      • The advantage to a gun is it gives a 98 pound woman the ability to defend herself against a 250 pound attacker.

      Yes, this is true. That why it is called "Gun Control" and not "Outlawing of guns". If a physically weak woman wants to buy a gun, and has no record of criminal activity, then she will still be able to despite the gun laws you seem to not like.
        • I keep a pair of trainers for self defense. When threated I am able to use them to run away

        That's fine for you. Now suppose you are responsible for several small children. What do you do now, genius?

      I'm sorry but the scenario that you are providing there is not very probable. How often will you be in a situation where you children are threatened by an attacker? I'm pretty sure most thieves and burglars couldn't care less about small children, as it doesn't buy them anything to hurt them. And, as also another reply has posted out, always keeping a gun around for the possibility that a mad-man will come by and attack you and the small children, is a lot less likely than that one of the children hurt themselves with the gun. I don't have statistics for that at hand, but if you use some common sense (gun is always there, madman is not, maybe never will be), you should be able to agree with this.
  2. In Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    hardware reocgnizes YO--oh, crap

  3. Gun emergencies? by Esteanil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "But if we remove speculative emergency situations, the technology seems to be interesting."

    And as we all know, guns are never used in emergencies...

    --
    I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
  4. And when you're carjacked by mdudzik · · Score: 5, Funny

    You don't get thrown out into the cold night. At least not all of you.

  5. Freely available passkey, hey? by FrenZon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    ... is one passkey I will not mind publishing on my webpage ...

    So, you wouldn't mind putting an image of your fingerprint on a webpage, where it can be downloaded and printed in gelatin, and then used to unlock all of your devices forever, thus excluding you from ever using fingerprint based security?

    Which, as another poster suggested, raises the great problem with a lot of biometric security - as soon as it's defeated - someone taking a gelatin mold of your fingerprint, someone making a nice glass replica of your eye (for example), you're doomed - EVERYTHING you access then becomes invalid. Sure, you can just use your remaining eye, or fingers, but those are a finite resource .. it's like putting all your eyes in one squishy basket

  6. Re:How about your partner? by bje2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    if you read the story...

    "By using a series of sensors along the grip, the gun can determine who is holding it and can even support multiple users."

    --

    "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
  7. Ring lock by RandoX · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Another interesting option for firearms is a ring lock. It uses a magnetic ring to unlock the firearm, which keeps the weapon from being taken during a struggle and used against the owner. Since the decline in popularity in magnetic media, unpleasant side effects of wearing a magnetic ring seem to be less of an issue.

    Sounds like a great idea for cops, though.

  8. Cool! by HarveyBirdman · · Score: 4, Funny
    Build a gun that only shoots robots and not humans, and we can construct Westworld!

    Well, we need fuckable hooker robots, too, but, hey, they're just around the corner.

    Or they would be if the techno-wizzes of the world would stop mucking about with tablet computers and first-person shooter game engines, and deliver to the world what it really wants.

    --
    --- Ban humanity.
  9. Smart Holsters! by Zobeid · · Score: 5, Informative

    A few years ago, a prototype of a smart holster was shown -- it wouldn't let you draw the gun from it unless it recognized your fingerprints. Although this wasn't perfect, it seemed very promising, and it seems like an idea that many people would find more acceptable than smart guns.

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is _151_25/ai_70380673

    Smart guns conjure up a lot of fears from gun owners. There's a fear that "smart" technology might be required on new guns. There's a fear that they might be too expensive, or unreliable (batteries gone dead), or that it might be possible to disable them remotely with something like EMP. Don't laugh, it's already possible to stop many motor vehicles this way.

    Smart holsters could provide practically all of the same benefits without all the associated fear.

  10. Re:Over-engineered solution to a non-problem by doppleganger871 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yep. I'm sure there will be pleanty of illegal guns all over the streets of NJ... just as there are today. All this shit they do to with LAWS is meaningless unless CRIMINALS all decide to OBEY the LAW and ONLY use APPROVED guns to commit CRIMES.

    "Oh Fuck, I have to reboot my gun before I can defend myself!"

  11. Guns have to work by nels_tomlinson · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Guns have to work, always. If you can't trust your gun to work, you might be better off without it.

    Electronics just aren't reliable enough to trust, particularly fancy finger-print-reading or AI-grip-recognizing electronics.

    Technological fixes to social problems are usually bad ideas, and I think that this is a great example of that.

  12. Bad, bad idea by Kohath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No serious gun owner would want this. No police officer would ever use this. When you need your gun to fire, it has to work. There's no room for error.

    A lot of serious gun owners won't even use handguns with a safety. Because if the safety is on in the fraction of a second you it to work, you're dead.

    1. Re:Bad, bad idea by Zak3056 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No serious gun owner would want this. No police officer would ever use this. When you need your gun to fire, it has to work. There's no room for error.

      I agree completely. The story submitter obviously doesn't understand any of the issues involved, particularly due to his flip dismissals. "Few have qualms," and "figurative emergency situations," my ass. The only people that don't have qualms are those who are trying to push legislation requiring this, and frankly the WORST time for a firearm to have a problem is when you desperately need it! The idea that "it only won't work if you're covered in blood" is absurd on it's face--if I'm covered in blood, I probably have more need of a working gun that at any time in my life, which is quite possibly about to end.

      In short, this entire story should be modded, -1, Clueless.

      A lot of serious gun owners won't even use handguns with a safety. Because if the safety is on in the fraction of a second you it to work, you're dead.

      Now this, I disagree with. While I like my Glocks, particularly for the reason you describe (the KISS principle is in play here--the only thing you need remember to do is aim and pull the trigger) pistols like the 1911 are excellent defensive guns even though there are multiple external safety devices that need to be disengaged before firing.

      The key is, of course, training--anybody who knows how to use a 1911 will tell you that disengaging the safeties adds no time and minimal complexity. The grip safety is deactivated simply by grasping the weapon, and the thumb safety should come off as the weapon is being presented. By the time the gun is on target, it's in the same condition as a Glock would be.

      One need look no further than IPSC and IDPA competition shooting--sports that are all about speed, speed, speed--to reinforce this. 1911 based guns are the preferred choice of all the top competitors.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
  13. "It appears you are trying to shoot an intruder... by TheConfusedOne · · Score: 4, Funny

    The following wizard will assist you:
    1) Enter BPA (Bullet Product Activatin) code.
    2) Verify that this person is really an intruder.
    3) Aim weapon.
    4) Pull trigger.

    Did gun fire? Yes/No
    No.
    5) Press Ctrl-Alt-Delete while depressing trigger.
    6) Did gun fire? Yes/No
    No.
    7) Are you still alive? Yes/No

    This is probably why Smith & Wesson and Microsoft shouldn't merge. :-}

    --
    --- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
  14. Re:What if... by FearUncertaintyDoubt · · Score: 4, Funny
    If the people wish to revolt, a government could just send out a signal

    These days, that's called Fox News...

  15. As DNA put it: by gidds · · Score: 5, Interesting
    (meaning the late and much-lamented Douglas Adams, not his or anyone else's deoxyribonucleic acid):
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair."
    He was talking about devices such as air-conditioning systems, but I think the principle applies here just as much.
    --

    Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

  16. Already exists - old news... by the_twisted_pair · · Score: 4, Funny
    Anyone who does graphic or presentation work knows such tech is already built into large-format colour printers.

    These things are actually dimly sentient, and cantankerous to boot. I swear they know when you're under pressure from an immoveable deadline. That's when they chose to break down/clog heads/eat your last sheets of glossy presentation material at 5am / have the driver b0rk...

    It's the reason we call them plotters

  17. Re: "..people *with* guns kill people..." by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Guns don't kill people, people *with* guns kill people
    Maybe so but they make people pretty damned effective at it. As for the other choices, well, they are pretty poor

    Take a look at the statistics for assault in great britain. Guns simply shift power. Instead of the biggest, strongest, most aggressive, longest armed person, survival goes to the fastest, most accurate, most cool-headed person.

    As to your other points, knives are often the choice of a professional killer because they are quiet, concealable, and frightening. Bows can be fired bloody fast and guns require just as much skill to hit anything. Fists and bricks and chairs and everything else can be used to kill people, and often are. Why don't you look to why people are killing each other rather than what they are using?

    California recently banned .50 caliber breech loading rifles. These rifles are very high power, long range, and effective. This will stop exactly zero crimes. Why? Because this type of gun has never been used in a violent crime in the U.S. The only crime it has been used in was vandalism (shooting signs). The reason for this is simple, people who own guns costing more than a thousand dollars, don't generally commit violent crimes. That is because violent crime is usually committed out of desperation by poor, angry, young people (usually men). I'm not stereotyping, those are the recorded statistics. Passing more laws that say people can't use things/have things/do things that enable them to break other laws don't work. If they are already desperate enough to break the law, they won't care if they are breaking two or three or four laws. That is just paperwork on how long the police can lock them up. These laws do, however, take rights away from non-criminals, important rights, like the ability to defend oneself.