Wired: Pro-Level, GPL'd Audio Editing For Linux

Sven Hertz writes "For all us music professionals who were longing to a promising music production and creation software on Linux, there is now Wired (screenshots). It supports unlimited Audio/Midi tracks playback and recording, and introduces a Plugin system for instruments and effects (VST support under way too). It can also read AKAI CDs and import 18 different Wave formats. The first test version was released a few days ago and its news made the rounds successfully on OSNews & GnomeDesktop while it was placed "app of the week" over at GnomeFiles."

Comments

This rules

[necro2607]

Awesome... The only reason I still use Windows on my desktop is because the audio software I use is Windows-only...

Let's hope this program will be good enough for me to be able to switch over to Linux full-time :)

Re:This rules

[Indy Media Watch]

I will probably be branded a troll for this, but have you considered Macintosh?

It beats Windows hands-down for anythiing to do with audio/video straight out of the box. As much as I support Linux development, I don't think the release of first-generation software makes it quite ready for the studio yet.

As an added bonus, OS X will probably run everything else you are looking at. Think about it...

Re:This rules

[krymsin01]

I use a program called Buzz. It's a windows program, and was once the only reason I used windows at all. Buzz is a modular synthesizer/composer, and a very powerfull tool once you get used to it. I tried to get it to run under wine, but never with much success (various dlls would kill wine). Eventualy, I found a good tutorial on how to get it working under wine. Haven't used buzz on a windows machine since.

Re:This rules

[CowboyBob500]

For Mac:-

CakeWalk -> Logic Audio/Cubase/ProTools/GarageBand
BeSweet -> FFMPegX
VirtualDub -> ?
TMPGEnc -> FFMPegX
Alcohol 120% -> Dragon Burn
DVD Decryter -> MacTheRipper
DVD Shrink -> DVD2OneX
? => DVD Studio Pro -> Sizzle
Nero => DiskBlaze -> Dragon Burn

For Linux:-

CakeWalk -> Rosegarden/Ardour
BeSweet -> Mencoder
VirtualDub -> KDenLive
TMPGEnc -> Mencoder
Alcohol 120% -> K3B
DVD Decryter -> AcidRip/Video-DVDRip
DVD Shrink -> ?/DVDShrink runs under Wine
? => DVD Studio Pro -> DVDAuth
Nero => DiskBlaze -> K3B

Bob

Re:This rules

[renoX]

Do you realise you advise him getting a new computer for an app?

Kind of expensive, don't you think? Especially since he has already a working solution dual booting Windows..

I wouldn't brand you as a troll, but as an "over-enthousiast"!

Re:This rules

[UnknownSoldier]

Thx Bob!

Too bad /. didn't have stickies, as we could compile a "recommended" app list summary.

I finally remembered that DVD authoring program for Windows...
- DVD Maestro => DVD Studio, or Sizzle
(Allthough it is no longer being sold. :( I wonder what people are using instead?)

You a Red Dwarf fan?! The seasons are out on DVD! (Or your "local" torrent TV show listing)

Peace

Re:This rules

[Bedouin X]

What does the Mac do out of the box that Windows doesn't do? Like you, I'm not trolling but I really don't see any evidence of this. I have been a Mac user for 15 years and have a dual G4 in my office and have been settng up a couple of dual G5 ProTools systems over the past few months so I have a decent cache of experience to go on.

Maybe in the Windows 3.1 days or even windows 9x I would concede that the Mac had better audio capabilities by default, but I really don't see it these days.

Re:This rules

[Lumpy]

for mac -> seting up any of these audio tools is easy.

for linux -> getting alsa and JACK running together correctly is a nightmare.

getting some of the apps to recognize your version of JACK is also a fight, give up on binaries, try to compile and then can not figure out why rosegarden will not see your installed JACK libraries and therefore refuses to compile with JACK support making it 100% useless.

Fight to get your midiman MIDI hardware recognized. Get pissed because your nice 8 channel USB midi rackmount device is not supported yet, you need to downgrade to the 2 port cheap model.

Be happy that your pro soundcard is supported, format your linux partition and go back to windows in hopes of tyring this while dance again in another 6 months.

I am a huge support and user of linux, the only 2 machines in my home that run windows are my video editor and the dedicated audio PC in the music studio.

I would love to get microsoft completely out of my house but it is not possible yet again.

Re:This rules

[boodaman]

Maybe it is due to lack of knowledge, but I haven't found anything yet that compares to SonicFoundry (now Sony) ACID on Windows. I have a G4 Powerbook, and GarageBand, but it just isn't the same. In my amateur opinion, GarageBand doesn't come close to ACID, and the interface is horrible.

I use Windows, OS X, and Linux at home, on three different computers. Whenever I want to whip up some quick audio tracks, whether for fun or something serious, I always find myself back at ACID on Windows. It just works, the interface is great, and it is inexpensive (almost as cheap as iLife/GarageBand).

I've looked for over 2 years for something comparable, preferably on Linux, and haven't found anything. For my purposes, ACID is the "killer app"...its the one app that is preventing me from dumping Windows altogether.

If anyone out there knows of a stable, robust application that is ACID-like, can read my hundreds of ACID project files (not loops, but the project files describing tracks), isn't GarageBand, and runs on Linux, I'd love to hear about it.

Re:This rules

[Necr0maN]

I think you really should check out Ableton Live (for mac or wintel), it has the same autostretching loop-based approach as ACID + lots of extra's.

Re:This rules

[Bedouin X]

Seriously, this sounds like it either happened back in the early Windows 9x days (or earlier) or on poorly maintained Windows installations. My Mac digital audio experience mainly consists of MAX and ProTools and I'll tell you that I've had ProTools on my G5s crash more in the last three days than I've had Sonar or Nuendo crash in the past few years on Windows. The Mac also has a much larger propensity to randomly crash or lock up. I hear Mac users say what you've been saying all the time but it just doesn't jibe with my real world experience. I think that people are just so used to saying it that they haven't bothered to check recent developments.

This has generally been the case since Windows 2000 dropped. I've been using and setting up Macs and PCs in studios for 15 years and it appears as if the tables have pretty much turned. Well, not really as the Mac doesn't suck on digital audio like Windows did, but Windows certainly has earned its stripes and is - at minimum - a peer to the Mac in digital audio.

But...

[flewp]

will it run on linux?

Sorry, I had to. But on a serious note, does anyone know of any good free audio editing software for Windows? I don't currently have a sound card in my linux box, but I might throw one in if this is a nice program.

No more crack.exe

[mfearby]

But that means no more having to find cracks on P2P networks... what a shame!

How does this compare with Ardour?

[adrianbaugh]

That seems to be a pretty comprehensive recording package. I'm guessing this is more a mixing / editing / adding MIDI type of program?

WiReD

[Anonymous Coward]

There I was thinking that was a Magazine/Portal that regurgitated 'news' in handy dead tree format...

maybe this audio software might need to be renamed FireWired
hold on, what does that remind me of...? hmmm...

AndyboyH

Maybe Microsoft should take a look at this...

[cybergibbons]

seeing as they are running short of licenses of another piece of software....

Linux sound is start to pick up

[Pecisk]

Yes, it is great to welcome another program, aimed at normal production use for common users for working with sound, but I want to point out that it doesn't arrive in the empty place. We have Audacity, Ardour, MuSE, lot of other programms which slowly reach stability and production use. Also I should mention work on ALSA and JACK, which are critical components making Linux a profesional workstation for working with sound.

Of coarse, lot of work should still be done for getting serious for common recording pro's crowd, but we are moving here.

Damn.

[Anonymous Coward]

A very important rule in software engineering (especially in OSS) is: A program should have as few dependancies as possible.

So this is for gnome. Next week we'll have a similar thing for KDE on qt. And next month another tool based on XUL that runs on all systems....

Why, did't they had to add the GNOME(->pango->freetype->xrenderer->xpat->rederer- >xgoofy) dependancy on a program who's main function is audio processing?

They will lose users because at the time the same thing appears with no WM dependancies, users will prefer that. Compare KDE-mail-app, GNOME-mail-app and mutt. Everybody except KDE/GNOME developers uses mutt.

Re:Damn.

[TheNarrator]

A very important rule in software engineering (especially in OSS) is: A program should have as few dependancies as possible.

The other far more important rule is don't reinvent the wheel. I think your attitude has come from years of Redhat/Mandrake/RPM dependency hell. I've been there, I know what it's like, I feel sympathy. You probably wouldn't have this gripe if you used Debian. I'll be able to install the whole thing with one command, dependencies and all when the deb package gets added to the repositories.

Re:Damn.

[TheNarrator]

The package maintainers know a lot more about their program's dependencies than I do and that's the way it should be. Managing them on one's own is just a big waste of time. Not using third party libraries is wasting a lot of effort on not much gain. There's already enough api fragmentation as it is on unix. Think of how many different config file formats we have. All because everybody had to write their own config file parser just to be a bad ass (I.E XFree/Apache/Passwd/Fstab/Sendmail/Postfix/ /Bind/Postgres/Every Single 31337 window manager out there) and then there's all the myriad font handling for X Windows, etc, etc. Anyway I think some people are starting to get a bit of stockholm syndrome with regards to these limitations. Meanwhile over in Java land there isn't a single library or program I've used recently that uses a config file format other than XML. BEAUTIFUL! One guy tried to invent his own XML like format just to be cool but I think he got talked out of it.

Cool, but what about...

[AceJohnny]

There are other "professional audio" tools for Linux out there. Now I'm not into this, but how does Wired compare with these?

Ardour multi-track sound editor (not MIDI, I think)

Rosegarden Audio and MIDI sequencer

The smaller Audacity A wave/AIFF/MP3/Ogg/etc editor

Re:Cool, but what about...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not a beliver, all pro audio software more or less sucks, so take what I say in context with that.

Ardour is closest to a how a pro DAW should be with a plain workman like interface that inspires confidence. Rosegarden is obviously inspired by cubase, I've fired it up but never used it on a project because I can't stand QT apps. Audacity is a great editor, it's always built without error for me and despite a couple of minor niggles it's solid and usable.

Ardour is the most solid, workman like DAW I've used since the Otari RADAR; if you want to work with sound and not look at pretty brushed metal UI crap that is.

Linux Audio developement is fairly decent nowadays

[Anonymous Coward]

And it's good enough for the amature/prosumer enthusiest definately. If they have a strong computer background already.

Of course nothing will be good enough for the wannabees, which I suspect will come out in droves on this article. (which I hope not)

Linux has gotten very decent at audio production since Alsa drivers became standard. It makes this sort of thing much easier then compared to the old OSS stuff. Now you have stuff like gstreamer being developed, but that's desktop stuff, not audio developement.

There are lots of apps. Lots of information:
Linux audio developer's list
http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/

google will show you the way.

A great app is Ardour, which makes your Linux PC into a audio workstation.
http://ardour.org/

From their website:
Ardour is a digital audio workstation. You can use it to record, edit and mix multi-track audio. Produce your own CD's. Mix video soundtracks. Experiment with new ideas about music and sound. Generate sound installations for 12 speaker gallery shows. Have Fun.

Ardour capabilities include: multichannel recording, non-linear, non-destructive region based editing with unlimited undo/redo, full automation support, a mixer whose capabilities rival high end hardware consoles, lots of plugins to warp, shift and shape your music, and controllable from hardware control surfaces at the same time as it syncs to timecode. If you've been looking for a tool similar to ProTools, Nuendo, Cubase SX or Sequoia, you might have found it. /end of qoute.

And before you get all up tight about VST/VSTi plugins you can run many Windows plugins thru Wine
http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/toots/vst -plugi ns/

And there is ongoing work of getting native plugins developed/ported.

With audio backends like JACK and Linux 2.6's scedualling options you can mix outputs from various different applications and sources with garrenteed latency and quality.
http://www.agnula.org/documentation/dp_t utorials/a lsa_jack_ladspa/

Here is a audio specific distro:
http://www.agnula.org/

Linux audio Guide:
http://www.djcj.org/LAU/guide/index.php

And that's just scratching the surface. If your intellegent and you make sure to select the proper hardware and sound equipment you can setup a very effective Linux-based audio workstation enviroment for relatively low bucks compared to something like OS X or Windows and depending on commercial software.

Unless of course your a Warez'ng pigfucker and don't pay for crap in the first place.

Before you get all up tight about desktop quality or lack of hardware support and how windows kicks ass and such, just stfu. If I was going to do this professionally and I had a lot of money I'd use OS X on Apple hardware. Windows just blows goats for everything except generic desktop usage, unless your willing to just throw pockets full of cash at it.

But Linux is actually fairly decent. Not the greatest, but definately best bang for the buck.

Re:OSX needs this

[jonwil]

As this is GPL, there is nothing stopping ports to other platforms :)

pro-level...

[Cryptnotic]

...you keep using that term. I think it does not mean what you think it means.

Re:pro-level...

[PasteEater]

***I have not used this software***

However, as a professional who makes a living both recording and doing live sound, I find this very hard to believe.

Let me explain, please....

I think that software deadlines are similar to professional audio deadlines- you just never have enough time. No matter what happens, you can always look back and think, "This could have been better."

However, you get no revisions with a song (or album, etc.) after it's been released. Once it's "done"... you're ass is on the line.

Here's the big finish: I don't know of anyone (and I don't know _everyone_) who would consider this "Pro-level". It's only pro-level when it does A) things better thanPro Tools B) things better than Logic C) things cheaper than both. Most importantly D) Has been through trial by fire.

Perhaps I've not emphasized enough that prefessional audio engineers are under a very tight schedule. Considering that fact alone, it's *very* difficult to call something "professional" when it's barely out of it's infancy.

I would really like to see something like this succeed. After spending a huge amount of money on pro gear, it would be nice to have some thorough, reliable tools that work well. Remember though, Pro Tools has the same thing Apple has going for them - tight software/hardware integration.

I don't care about the Open/Closed software discussion when it comes down to paying my bills or not paying my bills. If it works, you are going to have to *really* try to convince me that I should change my mind.

So... mod the parent UP, not only is he right, but dammit, The Princess Bride is a funny movie!

Re:pro-level...

[CliffH]

Before I begin, to all the mods. Mod me down to oblivion, I don't really care. I need to say this even if no one wants to listen.

"***I have not used this software***"

That's the most telling thing you have said. As a sound engineer, musician, artist, you should be wiling to experiment a bit, try new things, look at other avenues. This doesn't mean giving up any of your knowledge, equipment, tools, etc., it could mean adding a valuable piece. When I was activiely recording and playing, I wasn't afraid in the least to try new and unusual (to myself anyway) ways of getting the sounds I wanted. If I felt a particular piece of software would have helped me get the sound I wanted, hell, I would have tried. If it didn't, oh well. I tried it. I know about it. If I need it in the future it's in the meat-space database.

ProTools is an excellent product and I will say that I haven't seen anything yet that will compare to it. Saying that a product has to be better and cheaper to be comparable to it is a self-defeating statement used to vidicate your love of ProTools. Love, like, or use it because it gets the job done. In the end, it is a tool. Just as much as my basses, guitars, kits, keyboards, and brass instruments were mine. Hell, I loved one of my basses. I'd play it for hours on end just because I could, not for any kind of gain except a gain in happiness. In saying that though, if I would have found another one that would have done the job better, no matter the cost, I would have probably scrimped and saved to get it, or at least given it a good go as a point of reference. I wouldn't have dismissed it fully based on price or whether or not it was just like mine or better.

Open/Closed source truly has nothing to do with it either. That I will whole heartedly agree with you on. If it works the way you like, use it. If you're so inclined and you have software programming abilities and it is Open source, change what you don't like about it. Hell, make it into a ProTools clone for all anyone cares. If you're using it in house and it does exactly what you want it to do, we're all happy for you.

In the end, I'll make it short and sweet. Ardour, Wired, ProTools, Cubase, Logic, they are all very good tools that can get a job done for you. It's your choice as to what you use and how you use it. Using what everyone else is using as an argument (this is for everyone else thinking it, not pointed at you personally) or justification is only limiting you to new possibilities.

CliffH

P.S. The Princess Bride did kick ass. :)

SMP support?

[Thaidog]

Being both Linux and "pro level" I would imagine this would be a no brainer but I don't see it in the documentation...?

Re:SMP support?

[StormReaver]

If the application is either multi-threaded, or uses multiple processes, then it automatically supports SMP.

On Linux, apps don't have to be specially aware of multiple processors. Linux apps are SMP aware merely by being multi-threaded or multi-processed. Linux will automatically spread them around the processors.

Re:Audacity?

[rethin]

the app mentioned in the article looks very polished.

You must be new here. This is slashdot, we don't rtfa around here.

don't worry, you'll get the hang of it soon.

deepZ0ne

[Anonymous Coward]

Now Microsoft can afford to edit wav files legally.

The first step, no more

[NeedleSurfer]

One can hardly run a studio with only one software, I'll agree that the main required software has finally been made for Linux but there is a host of other software you need to actually run a studio. Librarians/editors, machine control for your automated consolle, track and cue sheet software, archival software (which surely exist on Linux), countless number of utilities; BPM to delay calculators, pitch to loop lenght calculators, you know, little utilities you just can't live without in the end when you get use to their function. You will also need, pitch detectors and a lot of pluggins, from noise reduction to convolution-based reverb and so on.

What I'm trying to say is that, this Wired software looks fun and potentially great but as of now it looks like it's not even on par with Cakewalk (or Sonar if you prefer) which in turn, aren't on par with anything they are the lowest grade wares you might find in a studio (I say might because I never have seen a studio running on Cakewalk or Sonar).

I sincerly hope some LinuxHeadz will be jumping at this and bring us back the good ol' days on the Mac, when the entire audio community was working on one platform making better and better by the day, now the devellopement effort are spread a lot less new wares and a lot more me-too wares are being made, Wired has the potential to change that. The Linux community has the necessary structure to bring this back and make this software evolve and get complete with an incredible assortment of companion wares.

So a first step it might be but it's a great one and the future will tell us if it was a leap...
go Linux!

Re:The first step, no more

[micromoog]

There's already a gigantic shitload of good audio software for Linux . . . I'd call this a "minor addition" rather than a "first step". Here's a listing. There's also an entire Linux distribution set up for audio.

Here's what I use:
multitracking: Ardour
MIDI sequencer: Rosegarden
editor: Audacity
drums: Hydrogen
softsynths: Alsa Modular and QSynth

There's really a ton of stuff out there . . . it just (like almost all free/OSS) doesn't get as much exposure as commercial work.

Suggestion: A music section

[gad_zuki!]

Music tech has gotten extremely geekified in the past twenty years and its a shame tech sites don't embrace and report on some of the very-high tech stuff out there. Many "geeks" are either musicians or have dabbled in music. Many are also hardcore music fans.

I've found one blog that does this very well and its called MusicThing (I have no relation with the people there, just a fan). I wished slashdot or other high-profile tech sites would also report on pro-audio gear, audio software both free and Free, the digital revolution in music (not just in techno), etc.

I mean, one of the coolest pieces of tech I own has to be my Line6 amp, which models eight tube amps digitally. That's a little revolution in itself.

After reading this article I was wondering if there were open source equivalants or homebrew solutions like build your own analog synth, theremin, microphone, etc.

Re:Suggestion: A music section

[zerblat]

Well there the Linux Audio Blog, Linux Musician and Quick Toots. I'm not sure most /.ers in general are that interested in pro audio.

The are lots of articles on the web about recording with open source software. Also check out Dave Phillips's site and his articles in Linux Journal.

Re:OSX needs this

[Bulln-Bulln]

Well, Wired seems to use wxWidgets. It shouldn't too hard for a skilled person to port it to OSX or even Windows.

http://www.multitrack.us/

[Anonymous Coward]

Those guys would tend to disagree with you.

Also take a look here:
http://www.linuxmusician.com/index.php
You might be surprised. ;-D

Fruity Loops?

[Tethys_was_taken]

I've just started to dabble with music creation on the PC. While I was looking for apps to start with, I found this excellent windows app called FruityloopsM (FLStudio now). IMO, it is very polished and excellent to use. And, like a good game, simple to learn and hard to master. I'm not advertising, I'm just blown away by this things quality.

Now, FL is pay software, and I have the 30 day demo (*hangs head in shame*) and it's one of the things keeping me on Windows (the other things being the games :).

I've been looking for a decent app for linux which resembles fruity loops. Does anyone know of one which can hold a candle to FL? I've been informed by various sources that FL is a point and click tracker, a VST interface (whatever that is) and various other scary sounding terms :/.

Besides, if any of you 1337 developer gods out there are interested in making music software, this is one app worth cloning

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

For MIDI/Audio with music notation, try

[FeatureBug]

Rosegarden has a MIDI sequencer, a music-notation editor, audio, DSSI plugins, etc. For musicians who can read music notation, Rosegarden is probably the best available MIDI software for Linux.

Other PRO-Level audio software for Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

There is also advanced drum machine for Linux. It's called Hydrogen.

Just tried to compile it

[Chilltowner]

It looks cool from the screenies, but it has some fairly serious dependency nightmares once you actually try to get it going. I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to compiling these things, and I'm not afraid to start tearing around in the code to make it work, but this is beyond the pale. PortAudio is particularly hellish to deal with. It's only version 0.1, so I'm sure they'll improve things in the future, but I'm giving up until the install and dependency issues become more sane.

Worst UI Ever

[Nurgled]

It would have been better to use standard UI widgets for a lot of that stuff. When will people learn that rotary knobs do not work well in computer interfaces.

We use rotary knobs on physical devices because they are easy to manipulate by applying friction with our fingers. A far better alternative for a computer-based interface would be a slider combined with a text-entry widget to allow precise values to be entered, thus making the computer interface better than the real-life one, rather than reinventing all of the limitations of the physical interface with the extra pain of figuring out how to manipulate a turning control with a mouse pointer. They'd also have a bit more room to write a decent text label on the control, rather than the unreadable blurs they use now.

None of it goes together, either. If they'd just let the standard UI widgets render in the standard way it would have looked a lot more consistant across different parts of the application, and they'd only have had to implement special behavior for the more specialised widgets such as the waveform viewers and so forth. I suspect that as we reach higher and higher display resolutions that bitmap-based interface will end up tiny and unusable, too.

Re:Worst UI Ever

[CamTarn]

Rotary knobs are designed to be packed densely. Witness an audio mixer: each channel is made up of many knobs and small buttons, and one slider. Replace each knob with a slider and a text-entry box, and suddenly your channel density drops by a factor of four. It doesn't matter too much in normal applications, where if you've got that number of controls packed that densely, you're probably doing something wrong.

Possibly a better way to do things would be to use knobs, with some way of popping up a text entry box to enter a precise value.

I've used audio apps based on sliders-with-text-entry, namely GranuLab, which has an entire screenful of densely-packed, gray, blocky sliders. It looks awful.

You're right about the bitmap-based interface, however. I use Propellorheads' Reason, which has a beautiful bitmap interface that tries to emulate real-world devices as much as possible. It's great fun to use - but on a 1280x960 screen everything is tiny, and the device stack only occupies half the width of the monitor.

VirtualDub

[DrYak]

Avidemux is a replacement closer to VirtualDub

(Both are linear editing tools : i.e.: you process video streams on which you apply filters and codecs).

KDenLive like BroadCast2000, are more like MainActor, ULead, Adobe Premiere, etc...
They are non-linear (you have small clips you assemble together [usually by drag-dropping them on some storyboard-like tracks])

It's easier to do editing with non-linear.
But you can still do some editing with linear tools too. (Usually linear editting tools alow you to work only on a small portion of your stream [and thus, isolating clips]. They also allow you to use a squence of more than 1 file as input stream [and therefor you can assemble your clips into your final movie]. You only lack the nice and userfriendly interface with tracks, but basically you can do the same).

VST Support in Linux Applications

[base_chakra]

For those who don't know, VST (Virtual Studio Technology) is a plug-in architecture engineered by Steinberg Media Technologies. VST plug-ins aren't limited simply to sound filters, but allow users to expand their host applications with elaborate third-party instruments that do things like, say, simulate a grand piano. Many regard it as superior to the competing DirectX-based plug-in system.

It's hard to overestimate the importance of VST instrument support in Linux-based audio applications. Many musicians depend heavily on specific VST instruments, and wouldn't dream of migrating without them. Also, VST allows for so many new possibilities with your host application, it would multiply Wired's potential capabilities tremendously, and would be tantamount to porting dozens of applications to Linux.

Since Windows has a long-standing reputation for latency problems in MIDI timing (especially with budget hardware), I can see how a new version of Wired with VST support could compel some Windows users to switch.

Re:VST Support in Linux Applications

[Dominic_Mazzoni]

By the way, there's a huge problem with VST and GPL'd programs: the VST SDK has a restrictive license on it that doesn't allow you to redistribute it - you have to download it from Steinberg yourself, after agreeing to their terms. So the only way to distribute a GPL'd program that depends on the VST header files is if you add an exception clause to the GPL...but if you do that, you can't link to any other libraries without that exception clause, such as FFTW, for example. It's a big pain, and that's the reason Audacity doesn't have native VST support (though there are still ways to access VST plug-ins through plug-in bridges).

Not an unreasonable amout of deps.

[donscarletti]

I am not anwering the original poster. It is clear to me that this is just a deliberate troll, and a damn skillful one and I respect that. Kudos to whoever posted it. But this is a response to the four individual people who modded this up and obviously need a response.

This is not a gnome application. I don't really know what it was doing on gnomedesktop.org in the first place, it really has nothing to do with gnome (or at least no more than it has to do with XFCE). It's a GTK2 application which uses wxwindows to abstract most of the GTK2 stuff anyway so it wouldn't be hard to port to another toolkit. You don't have to be running gnome to use it, you don't even need to have gnome installed.

GTK2 which is what it actually uses is a fairly good library to base such an application on. It provides a very nice user interface with only a bit under 5 or so megs of dependancies above the stuff that comes with X. (when everthing is compiled and installed)

Pango is really part of GTK. Freetype is pretty much used by everyone (gnome, KDE, games, most other things), and the rest of the stuff you mention comes with X (the ones that actually exist that is). Personally, I have no idea whatsoever what you are complaing about. Do you expect everyone to use Xaw or make their interface from scratch with raw X calls? Maybe you beleive that all sound editing should be done on the console. You are really putting a stupid expectation on developers and suggesting a course of action that would hold back creating good gui programs for linux for ages.

Personally, I suggest that you just go ahead and install GTK and QT as well as anything else apps you want ask for, as well as their respective dependancies. Then what I suggest you do after that is shut up. This process will only take you half an hour at the most and will allow you to run many more applications without having to complain about it.

sorry...

[Rage Maxis]

this app isn't "pro quality". Its tinker grade at best, alot of the bargain bin software at your local music store is better at being amateur grade than this product is.

1) Lack of good low latency options for the MIDI, etc.

2) Where's the vocoder? the pitch matching? the multipass filters? the FFT-based filter? the automatic noise reduction based on a noise sample?

3 examples (of many) of why this isn't *PRO* software. I already saw many posts "WOW! FINALLY ANOTHER REASON I CAN GO 100% TO LINUX!!!!"

This release and any number of previous sound software releases suggest that but I dont see anything from 1 hr of reading on the website about this package that suggests it even competes with Samplitude releases from 1995 or Sound Forge in 1995 in terms of even single channel editing.

Windows and Mac still and always will rule for "pro" sound editing, unless protools, samplitude, propellerheads or any number of other companies port to windows.

Rezound

[Anonymous Coward]

I think one of the best available WAV editors for Linux is Rezound http://rezound.sf.net/

So how long

[Wannabe Code Monkey]

So how long until they're pressured by Wired News/Magazine to change their name, and then finally settle on Spectrum only to find out that there already exists a company by the name of Software Spectrum forcing them to once again change their name ala Pheofirebirdfox.

MOTU's Digital Performer

[Anonymous Coward]

is the bomb. But it is quite expensive, and Mac only, although it will work with any Mac-supported sound card/ input hardware, including ProTools.

Everyone talks about CakeWalk, ProTools (sw), etc. I'm an audio pro, and I work with (literally) Grammy-winning recording engineers and producers, and MOTU's "Digital Performer" is absolutely hand's down by far the best. The others (Windoze issues aside) are somewhere between limited and clunky (ProTools: horribly clunky UI, but has a few really good plugins.)

As a very serious Linux enthusiast and supporter, I'd like to see the community work together and produce one stellar Linux-based (or cross-platform) midi/sound recorder/editor, rather than so many mediocre efforts.

At the very least, use Digital Performer as the basis of how to do the functionality and GUI RIGHT.

And yes, I want to contribute- to a single combined project.

It's raining bile, hallelujah!

[billcopc]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade here, but every time a "great" linux app comes out, it turns out to be a pale mockery of some "great" Windows app. Here's my opinion on this project:

It is (at least to me) obviously mimicking Cubase. Cubase is a serious application, used by serious musicians and audio engineers. I use Cubase, almost daily, and I find it kind of backwards sometimes because it is designed from a musician's point of view, making it look like conventional rack equipment, while I am a code guru and I'd rather have extreme control over everything.

Now we have Wired, which is a virtual studio app built for a coder/hacker's operating system; why are we imitating the rich fool's interface when we could instead be designing one that is better suited to the target demographic ? I'm not saying this app does not belong on Linux, but instead of blindly copying an existing app's look and feel, why not start with a clean slate and build it RIGHT ?

And VST support ? that's a pipe dream if you ask me. Running Win32 video codecs in MPlayer is one thing, running Win32 VST plugs is a whole different ball game. One thing I learned over the years is that most people who are good at music, suck at code, and vice-versa. I am one sexy exception =) What I mean is that the typical VST plugin is kind of rough around the edges.. they look pretty and sound kinky, but under the hood it's grossly inefficient and poorly debugged code. VST plugs tend to crash often, and most likely depend on a few Win32 support DLL's for a handful of stupid non-audio tasks. Lots of nasty stuff to "emulate" if you want it to work good (and fast).

What I think Linux needs is for people to accept a common audio interchange format and protocol. VST is just a standard for software plugins, but it is Steinberg's intellectual property. What if Linux had a license-free standard for audio chains, let's call it LinVST for fun. Write one linux app that takes LinVST Input, does a few nasties then spits out LinVST Output. Then that conformant app can be plugged into any LinVST-aware host.

cubase and logic

[Britz]

the largest 2 apps for midi sequencing with integrated audio support are Cubase and Logic.

You can choose between them. Since logic was bought by apple now for x86 there is no choice. Most studios run one of them (together with other, more professional apps). Those are like Photoshop for graphics. And like Gimp never caught up with Photoshop I have yet to see anything remotely similar to Cubase or Logic on Linux.

My friend does Cubase and as soon as something occurs I can install Linux on his comp, but until then ...

dd

[pikine]

Just for information, to rip ISO files in unix (Linux, Mac OS X, etc), just do a:

dd if=/dev/cdrom of=~/cdimage.iso

Furthermore, on Mac OS X 10.3, "Disk Utility.app" will do the same. It also burns ISO images. I've also used cdrecord on Mac OS X with some success (specifying the device was a bit puzzling).

answer: linux audio developer's simple plugin API

[pikine]

LADSPA has been around for a long time. It is not meant to duplicate VST, but it is a simple plugin interface just "good enough" to chain together effects like freeverb, compression, etc. It relies on the host (audio program that uses the plugin) to provide a user interface of the parameters to program the plugin. The plugins tend to come in a bundle, from dedicated plugin developers, such as Steve Harris and Richard Furse, who are experienced in DSP. There is also some kind of XML-based GUI description for LADSPA plugins around, but I'm not on the state of the art affair on that.

coralized link

[signingis]

Almost...

http://bloodshed.net.nyud.net:8090/wired

Pro level, huh?

[J. Random Luser]

On a b/w limited server? Nitpick: at gnomefiles it says "aims to be a professional ..." Also warns this is a beta, and offers the Sourceforge forum as help. For a "pro-level" digital audio app I would expect to be able to pay money for help, GPL or no. Having run thru a mini zoo of daw apps in the past 15 years, we always come back to Digidesign. As an earlier post said, the tight coupling of h/w + s/w means it always works as advertised.

The list of dependencies for Wired is also a bit worrying, but with supreme confidence the ToDo file is empty. The source is available at Sourceforge so I'll try to buld it, and report back if there's anything interesting...

on-screen knob manipulation

[timothy]

How's that for a dirty-sounding subject line?

You're right that on-screen knobs meant to be manipulated with mouse-dragging are lame; however, as another responder has pointed out, knobs also take up far less valuable space, so your channel density can be higher.

That may not be a great tradeoff for everyone -- how many channels are most home recordists really interesting in playing with at once?* -- but it's one that a lot of audio programs' designers seem to think was wise.

The real point I'd like to make though is that while on-screen knobs are lame as a mouse-driven interface tool, they're *not* necessarily bad; for instance; a combination of mouse-over activation and a PowerMate or controlled by an external MIDI control surface, for instance, might be a really nice setup. It's not perfect for on-screen control elements to scream out for off-screen controllers, but not much is. I really wish keyboards could come with a rotary controller standard -- rotation is a nice motion!

timothy

* However, there might be quite a few who *do* want a lot, I'm not denying that ...

Re:Audacity?

[wolftone]

This is slashdot, we don't rtfa around here.

Why read the article when you get to read phrases such as "Sorry, this site is temporary unavailable. [ Daily Bandwidth Limit Exceeded ]" instead?