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Wired: Pro-Level, GPL'd Audio Editing For Linux
Sven Hertz writes "For all us music professionals who were longing to a promising music production and creation software on Linux, there is now Wired (screenshots). It supports unlimited Audio/Midi tracks playback and recording, and introduces a Plugin system for instruments and effects (VST support under way too). It can also read AKAI CDs and import 18 different Wave formats. The first test version was released a few days ago and its news made the rounds successfully on OSNews & GnomeDesktop while it was placed "app of the week" over at GnomeFiles."
Awesome... The only reason I still use Windows on my desktop is because the audio software I use is Windows-only...
:)
Let's hope this program will be good enough for me to be able to switch over to Linux full-time
will it run on linux?
Sorry, I had to. But on a serious note, does anyone know of any good free audio editing software for Windows? I don't currently have a sound card in my linux box, but I might throw one in if this is a nice program.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
But that means no more having to find cracks on P2P networks... what a shame!
Topic says:
"Wired: Pro-Level, GPL'd Audio Editing For Linux"
That seems to be a pretty comprehensive recording package. I'm guessing this is more a mixing / editing / adding MIDI type of program?
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
- JRR Tolkien.
There I was thinking that was a Magazine/Portal that regurgitated 'news' in handy dead tree format...
maybe this audio software might need to be renamed FireWired
hold on, what does that remind me of...? hmmm...
AndyboyH
seeing as they are running short of licenses of another piece of software....
I should start reading the topics instead of just clicking on them :(
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
Would be nice to have more GPLed/Free audio/music editing apps for macos X. Sure, Garageband is nice, but the more the merrier!
Yes, it is great to welcome another program, aimed at normal production use for common users for working with sound, but I want to point out that it doesn't arrive in the empty place. We have Audacity, Ardour, MuSE, lot of other programms which slowly reach stability and production use. Also I should mention work on ALSA and JACK, which are critical components making Linux a profesional workstation for working with sound.
Of coarse, lot of work should still be done for getting serious for common recording pro's crowd, but we are moving here.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
A very important rule in software engineering (especially in OSS) is: A program should have as few dependancies as possible.
- >xgoofy) dependancy on a program who's main function is audio processing?
So this is for gnome. Next week we'll have a similar thing for KDE on qt. And next month another tool based on XUL that runs on all systems....
Why, did't they had to add the GNOME(->pango->freetype->xrenderer->xpat->rederer
They will lose users because at the time the same thing appears with no WM dependancies, users will prefer that. Compare KDE-mail-app, GNOME-mail-app and mutt. Everybody except KDE/GNOME developers uses mutt.
No, by all means, click on links without looking.
In fact, check out my new web page
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Ardour multi-track sound editor (not MIDI, I think)
Rosegarden Audio and MIDI sequencer
The smaller Audacity A wave/AIFF/MP3/Ogg/etc editor
Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
Audacity runs on Windows, Linux and OS X... and is GPL.
And it's good enough for the amature/prosumer enthusiest definately. If they have a strong computer background already.
/end of qoute.
t -plugi ns/
t utorials/a lsa_jack_ladspa/
Of course nothing will be good enough for the wannabees, which I suspect will come out in droves on this article. (which I hope not)
Linux has gotten very decent at audio production since Alsa drivers became standard. It makes this sort of thing much easier then compared to the old OSS stuff. Now you have stuff like gstreamer being developed, but that's desktop stuff, not audio developement.
There are lots of apps. Lots of information:
Linux audio developer's list
http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/
google will show you the way.
A great app is Ardour, which makes your Linux PC into a audio workstation.
http://ardour.org/
From their website:
Ardour is a digital audio workstation. You can use it to record, edit and mix multi-track audio. Produce your own CD's. Mix video soundtracks. Experiment with new ideas about music and sound. Generate sound installations for 12 speaker gallery shows. Have Fun.
Ardour capabilities include: multichannel recording, non-linear, non-destructive region based editing with unlimited undo/redo, full automation support, a mixer whose capabilities rival high end hardware consoles, lots of plugins to warp, shift and shape your music, and controllable from hardware control surfaces at the same time as it syncs to timecode. If you've been looking for a tool similar to ProTools, Nuendo, Cubase SX or Sequoia, you might have found it.
And before you get all up tight about VST/VSTi plugins you can run many Windows plugins thru Wine
http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/toots/vs
And there is ongoing work of getting native plugins developed/ported.
With audio backends like JACK and Linux 2.6's scedualling options you can mix outputs from various different applications and sources with garrenteed latency and quality.
http://www.agnula.org/documentation/dp_
Here is a audio specific distro:
http://www.agnula.org/
Linux audio Guide:
http://www.djcj.org/LAU/guide/index.php
And that's just scratching the surface. If your intellegent and you make sure to select the proper hardware and sound equipment you can setup a very effective Linux-based audio workstation enviroment for relatively low bucks compared to something like OS X or Windows and depending on commercial software.
Unless of course your a Warez'ng pigfucker and don't pay for crap in the first place.
Before you get all up tight about desktop quality or lack of hardware support and how windows kicks ass and such, just stfu. If I was going to do this professionally and I had a lot of money I'd use OS X on Apple hardware. Windows just blows goats for everything except generic desktop usage, unless your willing to just throw pockets full of cash at it.
But Linux is actually fairly decent. Not the greatest, but definately best bang for the buck.
...you keep using that term. I think it does not mean what you think it means.
My other first post is car post.
Being both Linux and "pro level" I would imagine this would be a no brainer but I don't see it in the documentation...?
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Now Microsoft can afford to edit wav files legally.
One can hardly run a studio with only one software, I'll agree that the main required software has finally been made for Linux but there is a host of other software you need to actually run a studio. Librarians/editors, machine control for your automated consolle, track and cue sheet software, archival software (which surely exist on Linux), countless number of utilities; BPM to delay calculators, pitch to loop lenght calculators, you know, little utilities you just can't live without in the end when you get use to their function. You will also need, pitch detectors and a lot of pluggins, from noise reduction to convolution-based reverb and so on.
What I'm trying to say is that, this Wired software looks fun and potentially great but as of now it looks like it's not even on par with Cakewalk (or Sonar if you prefer) which in turn, aren't on par with anything they are the lowest grade wares you might find in a studio (I say might because I never have seen a studio running on Cakewalk or Sonar).
I sincerly hope some LinuxHeadz will be jumping at this and bring us back the good ol' days on the Mac, when the entire audio community was working on one platform making better and better by the day, now the devellopement effort are spread a lot less new wares and a lot more me-too wares are being made, Wired has the potential to change that. The Linux community has the necessary structure to bring this back and make this software evolve and get complete with an incredible assortment of companion wares.
So a first step it might be but it's a great one and the future will tell us if it was a leap...
go Linux!
I don't have a great deal of knowledge as to what "pro-audio" applications are already available for Linux. But if this package could be a comparable replacement to Pro-Tools (TM) (the standard program and hardware used by the majority of the audio community) then it could be an unbelievable boon to much of the music and audio community. The availability of professional software programs, such as Wired, which level the financial playing field and grant all users the tools to create at a professional caliber is one of the reasons I love the open source community. I am overjoyed that one may not need thousands of dollars to be able to produce professional quality sound and I feel making the tools available to the broadest population allows for the most innovation and creativity.
Just my 2 pennies
Music tech has gotten extremely geekified in the past twenty years and its a shame tech sites don't embrace and report on some of the very-high tech stuff out there. Many "geeks" are either musicians or have dabbled in music. Many are also hardcore music fans.
I've found one blog that does this very well and its called MusicThing (I have no relation with the people there, just a fan). I wished slashdot or other high-profile tech sites would also report on pro-audio gear, audio software both free and Free, the digital revolution in music (not just in techno), etc.
I mean, one of the coolest pieces of tech I own has to be my Line6 amp, which models eight tube amps digitally. That's a little revolution in itself.
After reading this article I was wondering if there were open source equivalants or homebrew solutions like build your own analog synth, theremin, microphone, etc.
Hell yeah dude, thanks for the post.
:)
Mod parent up!!
Totally useful. Ardour looks awesome. Now I'm all excited to get all this stuff running. I can see it being very very useful for our band and future musical endeavours.. !!
Those guys would tend to disagree with you.
u might be surprised. ;-D
Also take a look here:
http://www.linuxmusician.com/index.php
Yo
Now you have stuff like gstreamer being developed, but that's desktop stuff, not audio developement.
As I understand it, Gstreamer is a multimedia framework, and as a framework it would be IDEAL to build Wired/Ardour-like software on top of it.
When changes are made to the framework, they would also work for the software on top of it.
For example, all plugins written for Gstreamer could work for the software you build on it. And when other people make Gstreamer plugins for their gstreamer-based software, those plugins would also work for you!
Words as "modular" and "flexible" come to mind
Now, i'm not a hacker, i'm a software user, so I might be talking out of my ass here. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>> Here is a audio specific distro:
>> http://www.agnula.org/
Here's their Debian based flavour (ISOs here): http://www.agnula.org/download/demudi
gogogo... Project is financed by the EU btw.
I've just started to dabble with music creation on the PC. While I was looking for apps to start with, I found this excellent windows app called FruityloopsM (FLStudio now). IMO, it is very polished and excellent to use. And, like a good game, simple to learn and hard to master. I'm not advertising, I'm just blown away by this things quality.
Now, FL is pay software, and I have the 30 day demo (*hangs head in shame*) and it's one of the things keeping me on Windows (the other things being the games :).
I've been looking for a decent app for linux which resembles fruity loops. Does anyone know of one which can hold a candle to FL? I've been informed by various sources that FL is a point and click tracker, a VST interface (whatever that is) and various other scary sounding terms :/.
Besides, if any of you 1337 developer gods out there are interested in making music software, this is one app worth cloning
StrayByte.Net
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Rosegarden has a MIDI sequencer, a music-notation editor, audio, DSSI plugins, etc. For musicians who can read music notation, Rosegarden is probably the best available MIDI software for Linux.
Why oil price increase equals economic trouble (Score: Interesti
Once they get the VST support running this looks like its shaping up to be a pretty decent app. Its going to take a lot to make me switch though, ive just gotten so used to cubase/cooledit it'll be hard to make the jump
I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this post is too small to contain.
On Windows I've been using a Yamaha UW-500 audio/midi capture device (USB, works well with the laptop so I can capture piano and voice). What are the hardware options for doing this kind of stuff under Linux?
(I also use Finale for notation, but that's separate. Perhaps the most frustrating piece of software I've ever used...)
EricThere is also advanced drum machine for Linux. It's called Hydrogen.
It looks cool from the screenies, but it has some fairly serious dependency nightmares once you actually try to get it going. I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to compiling these things, and I'm not afraid to start tearing around in the code to make it work, but this is beyond the pale. PortAudio is particularly hellish to deal with. It's only version 0.1, so I'm sure they'll improve things in the future, but I'm giving up until the install and dependency issues become more sane.
It would have been better to use standard UI widgets for a lot of that stuff. When will people learn that rotary knobs do not work well in computer interfaces.
We use rotary knobs on physical devices because they are easy to manipulate by applying friction with our fingers. A far better alternative for a computer-based interface would be a slider combined with a text-entry widget to allow precise values to be entered, thus making the computer interface better than the real-life one, rather than reinventing all of the limitations of the physical interface with the extra pain of figuring out how to manipulate a turning control with a mouse pointer. They'd also have a bit more room to write a decent text label on the control, rather than the unreadable blurs they use now.
None of it goes together, either. If they'd just let the standard UI widgets render in the standard way it would have looked a lot more consistant across different parts of the application, and they'd only have had to implement special behavior for the more specialised widgets such as the waveform viewers and so forth. I suspect that as we reach higher and higher display resolutions that bitmap-based interface will end up tiny and unusable, too.
Avidemux is a replacement closer to VirtualDub
(Both are linear editing tools : i.e.: you process video streams on which you apply filters and codecs).
KDenLive like BroadCast2000, are more like MainActor, ULead, Adobe Premiere, etc...
They are non-linear (you have small clips you assemble together [usually by drag-dropping them on some storyboard-like tracks])
It's easier to do editing with non-linear.
But you can still do some editing with linear tools too. (Usually linear editting tools alow you to work only on a small portion of your stream [and thus, isolating clips]. They also allow you to use a squence of more than 1 file as input stream [and therefor you can assemble your clips into your final movie]. You only lack the nice and userfriendly interface with tracks, but basically you can do the same).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
For those who don't know, VST (Virtual Studio Technology) is a plug-in architecture engineered by Steinberg Media Technologies. VST plug-ins aren't limited simply to sound filters, but allow users to expand their host applications with elaborate third-party instruments that do things like, say, simulate a grand piano. Many regard it as superior to the competing DirectX-based plug-in system.
It's hard to overestimate the importance of VST instrument support in Linux-based audio applications. Many musicians depend heavily on specific VST instruments, and wouldn't dream of migrating without them. Also, VST allows for so many new possibilities with your host application, it would multiply Wired's potential capabilities tremendously, and would be tantamount to porting dozens of applications to Linux.
Since Windows has a long-standing reputation for latency problems in MIDI timing (especially with budget hardware), I can see how a new version of Wired with VST support could compel some Windows users to switch.
Well, this is not quite a replacement for Reason by Propellerhead Software, but it is close. Great job. I think it will make a lot of audio heads consider Linux a lot more.
This is not a gnome application. I don't really know what it was doing on gnomedesktop.org in the first place, it really has nothing to do with gnome (or at least no more than it has to do with XFCE). It's a GTK2 application which uses wxwindows to abstract most of the GTK2 stuff anyway so it wouldn't be hard to port to another toolkit. You don't have to be running gnome to use it, you don't even need to have gnome installed.
GTK2 which is what it actually uses is a fairly good library to base such an application on. It provides a very nice user interface with only a bit under 5 or so megs of dependancies above the stuff that comes with X. (when everthing is compiled and installed)
Pango is really part of GTK. Freetype is pretty much used by everyone (gnome, KDE, games, most other things), and the rest of the stuff you mention comes with X (the ones that actually exist that is). Personally, I have no idea whatsoever what you are complaing about. Do you expect everyone to use Xaw or make their interface from scratch with raw X calls? Maybe you beleive that all sound editing should be done on the console. You are really putting a stupid expectation on developers and suggesting a course of action that would hold back creating good gui programs for linux for ages.
Personally, I suggest that you just go ahead and install GTK and QT as well as anything else apps you want ask for, as well as their respective dependancies. Then what I suggest you do after that is shut up. This process will only take you half an hour at the most and will allow you to run many more applications without having to complain about it.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
this app isn't "pro quality". Its tinker grade at best, alot of the bargain bin software at your local music store is better at being amateur grade than this product is.
1) Lack of good low latency options for the MIDI, etc.
2) Where's the vocoder? the pitch matching? the multipass filters? the FFT-based filter? the automatic noise reduction based on a noise sample?
3 examples (of many) of why this isn't *PRO* software. I already saw many posts "WOW! FINALLY ANOTHER REASON I CAN GO 100% TO LINUX!!!!"
This release and any number of previous sound software releases suggest that but I dont see anything from 1 hr of reading on the website about this package that suggests it even competes with Samplitude releases from 1995 or Sound Forge in 1995 in terms of even single channel editing.
Windows and Mac still and always will rule for "pro" sound editing, unless protools, samplitude, propellerheads or any number of other companies port to windows.
--- ask me about nihilism, I will have nothing to tell you.
Hmmmm...
it's be pretty bitchin if there you could connect it with a cluster for effects / dsp and other proc heavy tasks...
This is not the greatest
What is it about audio software that the programmers always have to use their own crazy non standard widgets?
It is not an expensive piece of hardware. You're not going to trick us into thinking it is by using strange pixmapped widgets.
Always cool to see more Free audio software though.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
I think one of the best available WAV editors for Linux is Rezound http://rezound.sf.net/
1) Microphones are balanced for several reasons. Noise/EMI immunity, phantom power - these are sufficient right there. No pro studio in the world runs any significant fraction of its mike closet in unbalanced mode.
2) internal circuitry in GOOD audio equipment is often balanced from end to end, for reasons of noise / EMI immunity, etc. It's more expensive, but in a PRO studio that's often worth it. The Soundcraft 3200 console, e.g., uses a balanced mix bus for exactly these reasons.
3) Transformers on the input also serve as galvanic isolation (DC offset protection), impedance matching, and of course conversion from balanced to unbalanced. Have you considered the size of the capacitors required to get a 1 Hz LF response in a 150 ohm microphone input stage? They'll have to be electrolytics, and frankly I'd rather have a nice Jensen transformer than a pair of 22,000 uF 'lytics in my signal path. You don't see those in a Mackie, but then a Mackie is hardly pro level, is it?
That said, it's distinctly possible to build a good active line-level input and output stage, balanced, without large electrolytics at all. Even a top shelf op-amp like the AD797 is cheaper than a good transformer - hell, *6* AD797's are cheaper than a good transformer! Horses for courses.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
So how long until they're pressured by Wired News/Magazine to change their name, and then finally settle on Spectrum only to find out that there already exists a company by the name of Software Spectrum forcing them to once again change their name ala Pheofirebirdfox.
We always knew Comcast was corrupt, here's the proof: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1909890&cid=34545432
At least he's rtfa :)
Another thing that might be nice to see on Linux would be an all in one set up like propellerheads reason. Some people really like this kind of all in one synth, drum machince, sequencer, effects processor set up - personally hate trying to go back to things like cubase after using it although I certainly see how those apps are perfect for some people. http://www.propellerheads.se/ There are things out there like buzz machine and reactor but the interface to reason is nice and easy :)
meep
My current project is sitting on an HD system on a Mac in Phoenix with 1 track on a TDM system in Gilbert, AZ. I've spent about $8,000 hiring musicians and paying these two sound guys to record and mix my stuff. There's a lot to be said for the pervasiveness of PT when I can bring a DVD with sessions from one studio to another without losing the mix / levels / plug-ins.
I agree in principle, but sometimes it's helpful to consider the practical implications of the tools (i.e. being somewhat standard in the industry) over the technical preferences of the sound guy.
And, at $800, I thought my DIGI-001 and LE 5.3.1 was a steal. I get a lot done with this painlessly.
My $0.02.
www.dedserius.com
VB != VisualBasic
"As this is GPL, there is nothing stopping ports to other platforms :)"
Since OSX already has most of this functionality built into the OS thanks to the CoreAudio framework, the majority of the source would be akin to reinventing the wheel. What we need for OSX is a comprehensive interface to tap into the power that's already there.
is the bomb. But it is quite expensive, and Mac only, although it will work with any Mac-supported sound card/ input hardware, including ProTools.
Everyone talks about CakeWalk, ProTools (sw), etc. I'm an audio pro, and I work with (literally) Grammy-winning recording engineers and producers, and MOTU's "Digital Performer" is absolutely hand's down by far the best. The others (Windoze issues aside) are somewhere between limited and clunky (ProTools: horribly clunky UI, but has a few really good plugins.)
As a very serious Linux enthusiast and supporter, I'd like to see the community work together and produce one stellar Linux-based (or cross-platform) midi/sound recorder/editor, rather than so many mediocre efforts.
At the very least, use Digital Performer as the basis of how to do the functionality and GUI RIGHT.
And yes, I want to contribute- to a single combined project.
I hate to rain on everyone's parade here, but every time a "great" linux app comes out, it turns out to be a pale mockery of some "great" Windows app. Here's my opinion on this project:
It is (at least to me) obviously mimicking Cubase. Cubase is a serious application, used by serious musicians and audio engineers. I use Cubase, almost daily, and I find it kind of backwards sometimes because it is designed from a musician's point of view, making it look like conventional rack equipment, while I am a code guru and I'd rather have extreme control over everything.
Now we have Wired, which is a virtual studio app built for a coder/hacker's operating system; why are we imitating the rich fool's interface when we could instead be designing one that is better suited to the target demographic ? I'm not saying this app does not belong on Linux, but instead of blindly copying an existing app's look and feel, why not start with a clean slate and build it RIGHT ?
And VST support ? that's a pipe dream if you ask me. Running Win32 video codecs in MPlayer is one thing, running Win32 VST plugs is a whole different ball game. One thing I learned over the years is that most people who are good at music, suck at code, and vice-versa. I am one sexy exception =) What I mean is that the typical VST plugin is kind of rough around the edges.. they look pretty and sound kinky, but under the hood it's grossly inefficient and poorly debugged code. VST plugs tend to crash often, and most likely depend on a few Win32 support DLL's for a handful of stupid non-audio tasks. Lots of nasty stuff to "emulate" if you want it to work good (and fast).
What I think Linux needs is for people to accept a common audio interchange format and protocol. VST is just a standard for software plugins, but it is Steinberg's intellectual property. What if Linux had a license-free standard for audio chains, let's call it LinVST for fun. Write one linux app that takes LinVST Input, does a few nasties then spits out LinVST Output. Then that conformant app can be plugged into any LinVST-aware host.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
the largest 2 apps for midi sequencing with integrated audio support are Cubase and Logic.
...
You can choose between them. Since logic was bought by apple now for x86 there is no choice. Most studios run one of them (together with other, more professional apps). Those are like Photoshop for graphics. And like Gimp never caught up with Photoshop I have yet to see anything remotely similar to Cubase or Logic on Linux.
My friend does Cubase and as soon as something occurs I can install Linux on his comp, but until then
How come no one has mentioned pure data (pd)? You can't get much more "Pro" than that. The possibilities are endless...
Anyway, I don't understand the obsession with Reason and ProTools. People always go on and on about how much control and flexibility Reason gives you. Reason gives you the illusion of control, but always winds up making EuroDance/Trance. If you want real power, check out pd. Otherwise, don't bring up control.
Pro Tools is widely hated by audio professionals for its ridiculously bad interface -- the only reason they keep using it is that it can handle the throughput of massive mixing consoles, and there's a ton of money already invested in it. Why should Linux apps try to emulate the "Pros?" Start fresh and build something better.
-ben
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
I once had a signature.
You see, you definitely have a lot of itch you want to scratch. Rather than whining about why they haven't scratched yours, why don't you make a program that will: !) have good low latency options for the MIDI 2) have a vocoder, pitch matching, multipass filters, FFT based filter. (sorry, automatic noise reduction is for the whimps, so as automatic gain control) 3) where is the third one? did you point out the third example? I'm missing something... There you go. And the program will be open source, right? You may as well stay in Windows Wonderland if that suits you the best. The least I want to hear from people is an extortion of features "or else I'll just stay on Windows." I'm glad you have considered open source solutions, but it's the wrong attitude, man.
I once had a signature.
LADSPA has been around for a long time. It is not meant to duplicate VST, but it is a simple plugin interface just "good enough" to chain together effects like freeverb, compression, etc. It relies on the host (audio program that uses the plugin) to provide a user interface of the parameters to program the plugin. The plugins tend to come in a bundle, from dedicated plugin developers, such as Steve Harris and Richard Furse, who are experienced in DSP. There is also some kind of XML-based GUI description for LADSPA plugins around, but I'm not on the state of the art affair on that.
I once had a signature.
Several people above mentioned Audacity as a replacement on Linux. In fact, it has been ported to both Windows and Mac OS X as well.
I once had a signature.
Reason gives you the illusion of control, but always winds up making EuroDance/Trance
Very wrong on that count. Some organically complex systems can be created with reason, with a little creativity you can create evolutionary synths that sound spetacular & complex. Reason is no illusion, it's the right tool for the right kind of creator.
d. Taylor Singletary,
reality technician techra.el
uh, you forgot to mention YAML http://www.yaml.org/ lol
9/11 Was An Inside Job! http://www.InfoWars.com/
Well, based on all the Reason music I've heard, and based on the time I've put into it, I would say you can create "spectacular & complex electroPop" with it. All software affects and informs the kind of work created with it, and Reason is no exception. It may be a fast tool for creating unusual synth sounds, but the idea that it gives you this huge amount of control over your sound is, as a pd user, hilarious. You're still stuck with their knobs.
Subject line got cut off?
Comparing ACID to GarageBand is kind of like comparing the AVID video system to iMovie. One's a pro-level program; the other's an amateur, entry-level program. You should be comparing ACID to something like Digital Performer...
De Bas Meister
Almost...
http://bloodshed.net.nyud.net:8090/wired
I prefer a void in conversation to a vacuous one.
Does Linux have ASIO support?
If not, its going to be problematic. You can work without ASIO, but the much lower latency of ASIO makes things much easier, you can drop latency by at least one order of magnitude, and that will be noticeable.
1. Well, it's obvious that no one in their right mind would DO it, but it wasn't all that clear from your comment :-) . I would suspect that dynamics like a Shure 57 or 58 actually present the voice coil directly to the tranny primary - in fact, I'm pretty sure of it. But for condensors, ribbons, etc. you're absolutely correct.
2. Every TV truck I've ever worked in either had balanced inserts or a Mackie. Most of the control rooms I've worked in had unbalanced inserts, occasionally even those godawful 1/4" TRS like a Mackie. And, sometimes, they had Mackies. Sigh. I did work in one truck a few times in which the engineer who built it / ran it actually installed unbal/bal transformers so that all the patch points from his unbalanced mixer were represented as balanced at the patchbay. But hey, that's TV, right? You gotta expect long runs with TV. Balancing is essential.
3. Whether you can get away with running a recording studio unbalanced will clearly depend on your environment. I've heard horror stories from a NYC sound engineer (Eddie Kramer's fave engineer for a while) that there were rooms in tall buildings which, because of the profusion of radio transmitters, actually had hundreds of volts differential between the top of a rack and the bottom of a rack - induced by the RF. OTOH, in a rural studio, running unbalanced could quite conceivably result in simpler, better sounding inputs and outputs with no fears of EMI.
In general, I'd rather have transformer I/O as well. However, when I design *MY* mixer (optimized for TV remote trucks), I'll probably have to settle for your basic op-amp balanced inserts, but using an EDAC or terminal strips - I just can't see spending $4800 for transformers JUST for the inserts on a 48-ch board. Nor can I see selling many mixers with that kind of parts cost, except for the REALLY big trucks. Probably I'll design an optional transformer-input mic section, just in case somebody wants to spend a LOT of money.
It might get done this decade, too! Hope I'll still be able to SELL an analog board then.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
aRts sucks. It really does. I can think off-hand of several apps that I have issue the killall artsd command before using.
The sooner KDE axes aRts and goes ALSA+Jack for everything, the better. It's one of the last remaining annoyances in KDE.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
On a b/w limited server? Nitpick: at gnomefiles it says "aims to be a professional ..." Also warns this is a beta, and offers the Sourceforge forum as help. For a "pro-level" digital audio app I would expect to be able to pay money for help, GPL or no. Having run thru a mini zoo of daw apps in the past 15 years, we always come back to Digidesign. As an earlier post said, the tight coupling of h/w + s/w means it always works as advertised.
The list of dependencies for Wired is also a bit worrying, but with supreme confidence the ToDo file is empty. The source is available at Sourceforge so I'll try to buld it, and report back if there's anything interesting...
How's that for a dirty-sounding subject line?
...
You're right that on-screen knobs meant to be manipulated with mouse-dragging are lame; however, as another responder has pointed out, knobs also take up far less valuable space, so your channel density can be higher.
That may not be a great tradeoff for everyone -- how many channels are most home recordists really interesting in playing with at once?* -- but it's one that a lot of audio programs' designers seem to think was wise.
The real point I'd like to make though is that while on-screen knobs are lame as a mouse-driven interface tool, they're *not* necessarily bad; for instance; a combination of mouse-over activation and a PowerMate or controlled by an external MIDI control surface, for instance, might be a really nice setup. It's not perfect for on-screen control elements to scream out for off-screen controllers, but not much is. I really wish keyboards could come with a rotary controller standard -- rotation is a nice motion!
timothy
* However, there might be quite a few who *do* want a lot, I'm not denying that
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
>It is not meant to duplicate VST
LADSPA is good and useful, but by not being a VST/VSTi host, it missed the boat.
There are hundreds of good VST effects and instruments, some of them are as if made in heaven by angels, indispensible already. The market has voted with its feet. VST is the ASCII of software plugins, and RTAS is the EBCDIC.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I use an 1820M as well as many DirectX and VST plug-ins. If it doesn't support all of that I'm not interested. If it doesn't support DX and VST plug-ins very few other pros will be interested as well.
"And, at $800, I thought my DIGI-001 and LE 5.3.1 was a steal. I get a lot done with this painlessly."
You might have already read my posts bashing Digi/PT, but I understand your reasons. Trouble is, I don't think you can really explain this to most linux people, since most of us don't happen to be both computer engineers AND professional musicians and/or sound engineers.
99% don't even understand the problem after considering computer audio in terms of *playback*.
Most of the rest, don't really understand the specific needs of a pro -- who might have to work with other musicians, different studios for production and post, contractural obligations, requirements such as sync to specific video formats, that sort of thing.
Some who *do* understand the issues, still seem to think that "pro quality" begins and ends with the signal path, user interface, and stability of the software.
I've spent more on cables than most are willing to spend on their whole system. (I'm nearly at a half mile of cables, just moving 8 channels around!)
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
ALSA and JACK are a pain, and often don't work like they should. It is often a real nightmare trying to get all your hardware to talk to all your software. Now while that's fine for computer geeks, audio people will not put up with that crap, mainly because they are audio geeks, not computer geeks.
On OS-X or Windows XP, the pro audio situation is just damn easy. Throw/plug in your soundcard(s), MIDI interfacts, etc and feed it the relivant drivers if necessary. Install the apps you want to use. Install the FX plugins you want to use. Done. It just all works together without bitching. Both OS-X and XP have excellent built in sound APIs, and adding something like VST or ASIO is easy.
That's what Linux really needs, before worring about trying to get apps. A system that makes it nice n' easy to get all the apps and hardware working together. Now that's what ALSA (for hardware) and JACK (for software) are supposed to do, but they don't do it near as well as CoreAudio.
This is OT, but I've often thought it would be cool to have a website where individuals could post GPL "feature requests" and programmers could bid on them. The resulting code would go into the open-source code base. I was sort of inspired by looking at the Google Answers site, and thinking of how the same thing might work for code as it does for fact-finding and research.
It would be a great way for people to get custom code written cheap, and would give a lot of talented but un-credentialed programmers a way to gain skills and make some money on the side, without committing to a big project. It would sort of be the programmers' version of the "Work Today - Paid Today" labor agencies. Have a long weekend free and need a project? Log on, find something in your area of expertise, and make an offer; if it's at or below what the client is offering, the charge gets debited from them and moved into escrow. When you complete the project and post the code (publicly), you get paid.
There are a bunch of issues that'd need to be worked out, like dispute resolutions, trust and reputation building, but it's nothing that hasn't been dealt with before.
I personally know that there are a bunch of little things that I'd be willing to pay a programmer some money to do (mainly porting some obscure UNIX software over to Mac OS X) if I knew of someone who was interested in doing it. They're just not so critical that they're worth the opportunity cost for me to do them myself right now.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Yes. As an audio pro, tech,BSEE, MSEE, geek, live mix, studio cat, TV A1, and musician, I am fully aware of this.
When I said that the 57 and 58 present connect the voice coil directly to the tranny primary, I was referring to the transformer internal to the microphone - looking back, I see that it wasn't clear. Sorry. It's a matter of philosophy whether that means that a 57 or 58 is balanced throughout, but my point was that it isn't UNBALANCED anywhere in its signal path before or after the transformer.
None of my 57's or 58's have any capacitors or resistors internally connected anywhere that I can find 'em, although it's always possible that someone else has removed them. I tended to buy my mikes used from the store I teched for.
Mentioning phantom across the VC reminds me of a true story: I once had a customer, who was thoroughly ignorant about matters PA, ask us to sell him a "speaker". After much pointing, we finally realized that he wanted a microphone. We sold him an EV N/D 357 or something similar (don't get me started), and he didn't want a cable. He intended to do it himself.
Well, of course, after that Sunday (you knew he was a clergyman, right?) he was back in the store, complaining, threatening, and raining down brimfire and hellstone upon us for selling him such a substandard, dangerous "speaker" - and him a man of the cloth! How could we? We should be ashamed! He dropped it on the counter, and sure enough it was charred, smoky, and melted. Miswired XLR? Phantom across the VC? Well, not exactly.
He'd taken it back to the church, gotten out the electrical tape, and wired an extension cord (yes, 120V power cord) straight to the XLR connector. No PA, just expected plugging into the wall to magically make him louder. I shit you not.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
Hey - what kind of live audio work do you do? Where are you based out of?
Check out my site -
http://www.UltraSonicDesigns.com
Libertas in infinitum
A good point, sir. I *have* spent the last few years doing video and scientific data collection. It's hard not to think about matching impedances, but of course you're right, it's unnecessary for AF. I even worked this exact problem a couple of months ago for a line input stage. Duh.
Of course they use NP caps to decouple the DC at inputs - it's either that, or transformers. And obviously 22,000 uF is an exaggeration anyway - you only need 220 uF to get below 1 Hz LF -3 dB point in a 2k circuit (Mackies are 1.3k). My point is that capacitors of that size just about HAVE to be electrolytics, and NP electrolytics are likely to induce more distortion than a good transformer (Jensen JT-16-A, e.g.). I realize that "'lytics are bad!" is a popular subjectivist position, but I think Cyril Bateman's series of articles on capacitor distortion in Electronics World add a bit of objective fuel to that fire.
The alternatives include using a transformer, which is expensive but simplifies several factors including noise impedance; using large value metallized film or film-and-foil caps for decoupling, which is at least as expensive as a transformer and takes up more space, but probably provides lower distortion; or terminating resistively prior to the DC decoupling caps and using a higher-impedance gain stage, which allows the use of smaller, cheaper, lower distortion film-and-foil caps but makes noise impedance matching more difficult.
Or, of course, you can simply use big lytics and deal with the relatively higher, but still overall pretty low, distortion and spend the money you saved on a) better faders and op-amps or b) a second Mercedes for all the corporate VPs.
For me, the fun lies in splitting the zeros. Let someone else design the DOD and Peavey crap. If I can reasonably avoid using NP lytics, 4558's, etc. then I will.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
Well... I was born in Memphis, lived there for like 5 years, and then lived in Orlando for about 15.
I got my 2 year AA degree at Valencia (a cc in Orlando) and then decided to move upto Nashville to attend MTSU http://mtsu.edu/~record/ for a BS in the Recording Industry. I chose MTSU over FS because I wanted a 4 year degree in case I ever wanted to do something besides audio work.
The truth of the matter is that I am going to go into business as a synthetic oil distributor here in the Nashville area once I graduate and then keep my audio stuff as a supplimentary/hobby sort of income. I think the industry is too volatile at the moment for me to do it full time and expect to earn a decent living.
As a matter of fact I just flew down to OTown this weekend to mix monitors for two of my favorite Christian acts - Skillet and Disciple at a club down there (Last Wave).
Anyway man feel free to give me an e-mail next time or something. Good luck to ya.
Libertas in infinitum
This is the essence of what every audio app has done in its own way. A sound processor is like a black box: you put sound in, and pull it back out the other end. Then perhaps you can add automation in/outs for the tweaks and knobs, but really that's all there is. All the plugin "API" has to do is describe how many channels there are, and what they do; let the host app put it all together. All this involves is a simple init function in each plugin to tell the host what it wants. If you really want to call it an API then throw in some common audio-related functions, perhaps a nice I/O abstraction layer with elaborate buffering schemes for low latency, perhaps a simplified GUI toolkit, and in the end you'll have build a C++ based clone of Native-Instruments' Reaktor.
This is so ridiculously simple it should be a non-issue. People just need to agree on one standard that works for everyone, and stick to it.
-Billco, Fnarg.com