Slashdot Mirror
Valve Takes the Offensive on Warez Users?
Drull writes "It's claimed by a poster on filefront.com that Valve might have released a "Warez" version of Half-Life 2 to monitor and ban those who attempt to use it. This is the news from some guy with a filefront account, so take it with a grain of salt.
The RIAA and MPAA should take a lesson. Valve has done a pretty incredible thing. They have done a solid job and snuffing out pirating while managing to avoid pissing off their consumer base. They have offered a product that is not crippled and have managed to protect it without resorting to using the government in the form of the judicial system to act as their personal thugs. This is the way companies should protect their IP, not by using the government as their own private band of thugs.
It took two hours to get HL2 actually up and ready to play on tuesday, even though the installer actually put the bits onto the disk from the CD in under 15 minutes. And now, to actually play the game, in single player mode, it still takes several minutes from the time I click on the icon to start the game before I can even choose to load a saved game -- this time is spent starting Steam, then verifying that my copy is legit.
And then, even when I'm not playing, Steam pops up and sends messages to my screen. So far, they've been related to HL2 and Steam, but how long will it be before Valve is advertising their new game? Or somebody else's new game, available through Steam? Or how about some new energy drink to drink while playing their game?
Don't pretend that everybody likes Steam. It seems clever enough, but really what it is is an advertising, piracy prevention and sales portal. And if you want HL2, to actually *buy* HL2 rather than pirate it, it's forced on you.
IF Valve is, indeed, running such an experiment, it's pretty unlikely that Gabe Newell (or anyone at Valve) would immediately fess up to it to some unknown joker on the Internet - WHILE they're trying to catch people.
:)
:)
However, this is a pretty neat idea - since Valve knows that people are going to pirate the game, the proactive step of CONTROLLING the version that gets pirated by modding it so that they can track it anthen releasing it BEFORE anyone else can do the same pretty much ensures that they'll get the personal info (name, credit card #, address, etc.) of lots of pirates, and then they can choose what to do with that info.
The first option that comes to mind is emotionally satisfying to but a horrible business plan - they COULD use that personal info to PERMANENTLY BAN that person from using Steam/HL2, ever. Although that might make Gabe & crew feel good for a few minutes... they just potentially lost ($50 x #_of_pirates).
The second option, which is BOTH emotionally satisfying AND a good business plan, BUT is ALSO only quasi-moral and barely legal, is to use that personal info to contact the pirates directly and extort^H^H^H^H^H^H encourage them to buy a legal copy immediately, otherwise Valve will turn their info over to the authorities for prosecution. This not only "sticks it to the pirates" but also generates additional revenue (($50 x #_of_pirates) - ($50 x #_of_stupid_pirates)). Heck, if they went the extortion^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H encouragement route, why not "encourage" them to buy the $90 package instead?
The third, and most likely option, would be to turn all of that personal info over to the authorities and make a huge example out of all of them, thus instilling the Fear of Valve into all pirates everywhere, which would hopefully reduce the number of pirates and create a Utopian society for all.
All that said, though, I doubt there's any truth to the story, since, again, it kind of defeats the purpose of having a sting-operation if you TELL EVERYONE you're running a sting!
there's nothing illegal about banning users from your private system for what ever reason that you choose as long as you stop billing them. Also, it is probably written into the TOS that the users of this software must not modify it.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
"Monitoring warezed HL2 files on torrent networks" is not the same thing as "Valve populated torrent networks with warezed HL2 files."
And let's not forget, if you install a pirated version of the software, the EULA has no binding on the developer. You violated it from moment one, you could be considered to have no rights whatsoever and may only have recourse if the software causes problems in a fashion that's criminally damaging. Like, say, deleting any file with a .doc or .exe extension on your machine. (And .c for the linux-only nazis that'll show up.)
If you pirate it, Valve pretty much has the greenlight to fuck you in any way they want within the bounds of their own software and services.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
There's no real point to cracking it if you have a legal version. You'd risk running some hacker's code on your machine just to save -maybe- 10 or 15 seconds when you loaded up a game? That's foolish. So far most crack authors have been very good about being minimalist and unintrusive, but someday, with some crack, they're going to fuck you.
/., but when a company like Valve goes out of their way to offer something in exchange for the authentication hassle - they deserve a fair shake.
And when it happens, what then? You'll have less than zero recourse. "Yes, I want to sue this guy because the illegal program he wrote to crack the protection on this software nuked my email."
I hate software licensing as much as anyone on
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
If the TOS isn't printed on the OUTSIDE of the box then that is shakey and not truely proven ground AFAIK.
Although not illegal, they could have civil suits on their hands if they ban accounts on the first which are paid through the 30th and do for illegit reasons.
The software doesn't look for anything else on the computer, it doesn't monitor anything, etc. All it does is call home, which is perfectly legal for a game where you knew right from the start that you would need it to call home to activate.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Isn't that kinda like sayin that if I stole your watch (Not that piracy is property theft), you get the right to ransack my house looking for the watch. And somehow that ties to an agreement between you and someone else on how to use said watch.
- my $.02? - you can't have it...it's all I have!!
I can't recall any EULAs that have a binding on the developer anyway. They all seem to say that the developer has no responsibilities whatsoever, and the right to do anything they want.
At least Microsoft provided the option of activating the product over the phone.
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
On some machines quite capable of running HL2, the steam part takes an extra four minutes or so, simply because Steam sucks and/or the servers are overloaded. Why should consumers have to wait for steam to play a game they paid for? We're being treated like criminals - nice reward for giving Valve and Vivendi our money, eh?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It's the difference between an operating system and a game. Few people rely heavily upon the ability to play a game (and if you do, you've got more problems than just game activation). Inability to re-install an OS on the other hand can be a major problem. If you're stuck somwhere without a phone or 'net access and you need to install XP, you're up shit crick.
Both Microsoft and Valve can decide when to stop authorizing their software (and likely will at some point). Of course the consequences of no longer being able to install an OS are a LOT bigger than not being able to play a 10 year old game. You also have to admit that Microsoft has a much spottier reputation with taking unfair advantage of their monopoly power. Valve doesn't have that reputation, so people are more willing to trust them.
AccountKiller
This is the news from some guy with a filefront account, so take it with a grain of salt.
If you don't trust the source, why did you post the story?? Trying to pull a "Dan Rather" here?
What?
Valve doesn't ransack anyone, they just disable your account.
Pretend that my watch had a remote control that let me turn it off. If you stole my watch, using the remote control to turn off my watch would be well within my rights. Thats all Valve is doing, making the time and effort you went to to warez their game meaningless.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Who is this Slashdot guy you're talking about? He sounds like a real flip-flopper.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
No, you are being treated like a customer. I have an anual pass to Disnyland. Strange thing, every time I want to go into the part they check my pass and look and log me into their database.
Those bastards, who do they think I am, a criminal?
Ted Tschopp
Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
If you're stuck somwhere without a phone or 'net access and you need to install XP, you're up shit crick.
Nope, because MS has a grace period. You don't need to have a mobile phone or something nearby right at that time. And you have to be a pretty poor isolated fella if you can't contact the outer world for over a week / month or whatever it is.
I can't see why people have so hard time accepting this. It's basically just a replacement for a CD key verified by a server. Just more flexible. Since it's an important piece of software.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Yeah, and every time I watch a DVD movie, I have to confirm with the MPAA that I own the rights to view the movie... ...oh, wait, I don't. Your analogy falls apart there.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
[The original product called] DivX was sunk because people didn't want the machine calling home when they wanted to watch something. How is this any different? Free hint: It isn't.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Or, if you actually read the source on this, that poster was reading more into Valve's response than was said.
They only said they're monitoring it and responding, not that they'd released it.
It's easy to monitor who's sharing a file on BitTorrent without seeding a single bit, never mind being the original seeder...
The entire Half Life 2 release and drm fiasco (not to mention the reported technical problems) is going to hurt Valve and Sierra/Vivendi in the long run. The best outcome would be for Valve and Sierra to gets burned enough that Half Life 2 can be used as an example of how not to release a game.
There's plenty a point to cracking. I hate CDs. I hate having to put them in the drive to play. I hate it when the game won't play even if it's in the drive. I hate having to carry them around with me when I travel. What if I scratch it? What if I lose it? What if it decays? What if my dog eats it? What if my child tosses it out the window? What if my cd rom drive breaks? What if I don't have a cd rom drive? What about when the next big thing comes along and we ALL don't have cd rom drives? Maybe I won't be playing the game then but maybe I will.
Many of the above scenarios have occured already. More than once. Thank you thank you thank you gamecopyworld.com.
I have no reason to distrust crackers. What reason do you have?
Besides the fact that these warez could be virused, tweaked with cheats like autoaim or autododge, etc. I would hope that anyone playing a great Linux port (such as UT2004, thanks icculus!) is properly paid up.
To be quite honest, I'm pretty pleased that Bungie/M$ has put their foot down on Halo2 hijinks, it's good that there's a level baseline (where slow stick 'mouselook' is compensated by some constant autoaim) and a fairly cheat-resistant environment.
(Now if only H2 matchmaker had better gametype and map combos.. 8x8 on Zanzibar is a bit crowded.. UT2004 still 0wnz pure multiplayer...)
So, when you download this cracked version are you going to go out and buy the game (that you returned) again? If so, I'd say fair enough. If not you add to the number of people that caused the activation process in the first place.
I find the No-CD crack for most of my single-player games. I travel a lot, and I don't want to take the CDs with me on a trip, or have a spinning CD-ROM eating at my battery life.
CDs also fill up a laptop case, and the only time I've lost a CD is when I accidentally left it in a hotel room, so I like to leave the CDs at home or the office. I used to take copies of the CD-ROMS, which were sometimes hard to make, but they were all repossesed by the cultural police at the Jeddah airport in Saudia Arabia. So now it's just No-CD cracks.
With HL2, it's a moot point, since there is no way it will play on my laptop, and I have no desire to play it on an airplane. But still, I have no ethical problems with installing the No-CD crack for games I own, and I've yet to find one that did anything malicious to my laptop.
"you don't even need to be a lawyer to see how a smart pirate is going to make Valve look like fools in court..."
Valve hasn't actually taken anyone to court, though. So long as they just stick to banning people from Steam and not actually dragging them to court, I don't see any real legal complications here.
Don't compare Steam to Kazaa, it doesn't spy on you. If you could pay for Kazaa, it probably wouldn't either.
Presumably, people will not tolerate "content delivery" software that attacks competing software on their computer. Also, even a lot of clueless end users despise spyware. One would hope that major companies like Sony would not bite themselves in the ass PR-wise just to deliver a few banner ads to your desktop (considering how much profit would come from selling music etc. downloads).
Of course, amazingly stupid things are done all the time by otherwise sensible companies. Which is why we have to make a big noise every time they try to screw us. Also, if running a bunch of different Steam-like apps at once hoses your computer so none of them work, it's similar to the "tragedy of the commons", in that no one company has intended to make your computer nonfunctional (why would they want to when you use it to buy media from them?) but all together they bugger it up.
I don't mind the concept of Steam, but they really should have provided an alternative for users with NO internet connection (or a really slow one, like 33.6), as rare as they may be. It could be as simple as a phone call to tell them your CD key and get a code to punch in to activate. Those people wouldn't need multiplayer anyway, after all, so Steam wouldn't be needed for that.
Freedom: "I won't!"
Think about it a moment. The Internet, as it is designed, is specifically intended to allow the free flow of information to anyone who wants to post or send it. No one who produces IP, be it a software company, music or movie producer, or anyone else, can stop -anything- that can be made into data from being distributed in this manner. What they can do is make it more difficult to do so, while making it easy and convenient to use their software. People will pay for convenience, as has been demonstrated time and again, even if a cheaper or free option is available but more of a pain.
So, the smart company doesn't say "Pirating is theft!" (Most don't see it as such and/or don't care.) Or say "Software piracy is hurting us, we won't be able to develop further games!" (Awwww, you only made $299 million instead of $300 million on it. Don't I wish I had your problem.) What they should say is "Cracked copies may be a pain and may not work. Our version will work straight out of the box." (Maybe even throw in something about how pirated copies may contain worms/Trojans. While that's not too often true, most people wouldn't know that.)
So, what's the problem here? Valve's software WON'T work out of the box, and a cracked copy WILL! They have removed the last incentive there is to purchase a "real" copy for those with any type of computer know-how. Quite simply put, the major misunderstanding that most IP companies operate under is the assumption that computer technology and the Internet are simply going to go away, or will be put under their full and absolute control. The first is unrealistic and the second unthinkable.
Just as they have had to adapt to VCR's, tape decks, CD burners, radio, and every other type of technology invented, they are going to have to figure out how to work WITH the net rather than against it. That may involve some sort of collective licensing scheme (the best solution, to my way of thinking.) It may be to stop licensing each individual copy and instead concentrate on providing value-added support for a fee, such as tech support and customization. It may be to offer copies in an easier and more convenient manner than scouring newsgroups and getting cracks to work. It may be offering webbased services available only to registered users. It may be some combination of all of the above. But one thing's for sure: The solution lies in changing their business model to adapt to technology, not in trying to change technology to adapt to their business model.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
Um, except that most of the time these cracks are written by members of huge piracy/cracking groups that have their huge reputation on the line and will only release the best product to maintain their reputation...
... No, you dumbass. You'll get viruses/trojans on your computer when you search for "half life 2 crack" on fucking Kazaa and start downloading and running every result that comes up.
They see releasing high quality cracks/warez as a matter of pride and wouldn't do something so "immoral" for any reason, unless the whole purpose of their group to begin with was to gain respect and popularity and then screw over everyone who trusts them.
The only people who make those malicious cracks are small groups that are founded upon the members' harmful intent, or individuals with the same intent.
Anyone who runs cracks made by these small groups/individuals obviously deserves whatever they get as a result of trusting unreputed and unknown obscure software crackers.
So many times I've gone to crack a program for a friend or whatever, and they start whining about shit like "You're going to get a virus on my computer!"
These groups have a HUGE reputation on the line, they're not gunna fuck around with that. They receive hosting on servers with huge disk space and high bandwidth *as a favor* from users who support the groups. They don't want to piss off the users that support them.
Funny that. This impatient potential customer might actually turn into a pirate instead. Requiring online activation for single player is an insult to me as a cusomter, and it causes me problems. It seems that they are more concerned about pretending to do something about piracy, when, in fact, it only inconveniences their customers. Pirates will just use a cracked version, and it's rather tempting, I must say.
Clever signature text goes here.
Sometimes all this stuff makes me wonder if it's really worth it. People know that the game is good, but making it a hassle to play seems a bit like bad business. If someone really wants something, they'll find a way to get it. For a few people, this means hacking and cracking till the sun goes down. However, for the large majority of thrill-seekers out there, $40 is not a big deal...that's the equvalent of maybe 5 movie tickets nowdays. Is it worth alienating 50% of your customers to eliminate 5% to 10% of the freeloaders?
It may be better to simply use religion as a model...if people like their religion and stuff like that, they give money to support it. The proliferation of all these different denominations speaks volumes that this business model must work. If people really like the games, they know that the games cannot be developed without money, so why not let the users support it. It might be worth mentioning that Linus and others developing Linux (a free product) aren't starving (that I know of), and if they were, I'm certain that they could rememdy that problem real quick with the user base they have... I think I read something like that for Wikipedia...they needed some money, simply asked their users, and voila, they got money.
I dunno...maybe I'm just dreaming.
NOT a Borg collective? Oh cmon, are you new here?
Face it - on nearly every discussion (save Politics and Religion), there is little to no "debate". There is only mild variations of a single opinion and maybe one or two dissenters and a handfull of contrarians/trolls.
But I guess 99.9% doesn't really constitute a true collective, so I guess you are right.
I'm sure Valve was happy that there was not an illegal release of their game a few weeks or even a few days before the actual release date. (This is with exception to the beta leak, which was unfinished) It is my opinion that Valve has become stupified by other companies as well as greedy (although the greed may have stemmed from VU).
Within hours of the HL2 unlocking there was a warez version available. This version was warez version was then "nuked" as it was found to not work. A fix was later posted that fixed the nuked version of the warez. There was also a way to circumvent the steam login, but Valve finally caught onto that one and now probably logs all people trying to do that. (if that is possible; if you don't know what I'm talking about use google)
What bothers me the most about HL2 is the fact that you have to log into steam every single time you want to play a single player game. If I pay 50+ (US) I better be able to play it without having to do anything special other than putting a serial key in. So what if the game gets pirated. I haven't seen a game in recent years that hasn't been pirated, yet the more popular games still make millions and line the pockets of the game makers/publishers. I am not ncessarily promoting pirating games, but what I am saying is that a game maker shouldn't build their game completely around such protection. It ends up ruining the ease of use with the consumer. This also takes away the some of the ownership of the game. Also, what happens if the steam servers go down for some reason, be it maintaince or something else? Personally I don't like this system of having to logon to the internet for a single player game. As that is what Half-Life 2 is a single player game, yes it has multiplayer capabilities, but at the core it is a single player game. Those are just some of my views of the whole deal.
"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Steam finally authenticated my cd-key after four hours on release day and I was able to play. I was p.o'd but I was happy to get into the game.
Today however... I started steam and it updated itself which was not surprising after the previous issues. I started the game and got the "preparing to play hl2" dialog then...
"The game is currently unavailable.
Please try again at another time"
EXCUSE ME? I did not think I needed Valve'e permission to play a game I purchased. I then tried CS:S and got the init dialog then... nothing.
Well I guess I'll check the Steampowered forums to see what's up. Oh but wait...
"vBulletin Message
The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later."
Valve has installed copy protection that is hurtful to the people who purchased this game. Here in Canada EB will not give me my money back, will Valve?
The irony is that the methods that they are using make no difference at all in piracy prevention. Check suprnova and you will see the game is available.
Finally, I don't see anywhere on the box that you have to agree to the steam eula in order to play HL2. Screw you valve, but only after you have obviously screwed me. I am not a criminal but Valve is certainly treating me like one.
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot
I don't know if there are any proven anti-piracy systems.
Can you list any proven anti-burgler devices for homes?
Any determined burgler can break into a house.
Any determined cracker can crack a game's copy protection scheme.
-Morty
Well, one thing I've noticed is that most people are not complaining that Valve have chosen to use the Steam system as a means of secure, digital distribution of their products. I believe that it's a fantastic way of selling products, and provided you have the internet pipe to handle that much data transfer, more power to you - saves a trip to the store. That's not what the complaining is about at all.
What the complaining really is about is the way that the online validation is required for B&M purchases. (I don't know enough to know if there's truth to having to validate online every single time you want to play SP or not, seems many people say you don't have to, just the first time only.) If you go down to your local store and pay your money for the product, you should be able to play it without having to go online and [hopefully] get through to a server somewhere to prove you bought it.
I applaud your desire to reward Valve by purchasing a copy even though you'd gotten a free copy via a videocard purchase. Of course, there's a good chance they got some money already from the videocard company in that deal (depends on the terms of the agreement; in this case, since it's obvious that HL2 was a compelling reason to buy the videocard, I'll bet the terms were in Valve's favor and not vice versa...) The only concern I have (especially after reading about the recent EA programmer's issues) is whether or not the money is truly going to benefit the programmers who tirelessly slaved away for the 5 years to make HL2.
This whole issue with Steam reminds me too much of the DirecTV Tivo issues that are just as interesting. For those who don't know, DirecTV Tivo units require you to keep your units plugged into your phone lines in order for your service to continue without "issues". For example, if your unit doesn't make its daily calls, eventually your ability to order PPVs through the unit is disabled (though you still can order online/phone). So the bottom line there is, you paid for the unit, you pay your subscription bills every month on time, but you're still forced to make a daily phone call that has no literal bearing on how your service works on your TV. (Even tv guide data is pulled from the satellite dish, not the phone).
This is the same exact issue. People paid for a product legitimately, but can't use it until their "phone" (ie, internet client) makes a "call" (ie, authentication) to a central server. Yes, it may be inconvenient and easy to do quickly, but the question is really, "Should it be done?"
Those complaining about Steam aren't expecting special privileges without paying the dues necessary for getting them. (IE, wanting SD equivalent from HD providers without paying for HD.) People paid their money and expect to be able to use it without delay of any sort. It would be much like buying a new home (with an electronic keycode necessary to open the locks), paying in cash for it, and when you go to move in, you have to wait on the phone for an operator to be available to verify your paperwork and send you the keycodes to open the door. It's not unreasonable, if you think about it for a minute, to be upset that you've paid for something and still can't use it until you get someone to "believe you", which is basically what Valve/Steam is doing. You paid $50 for it, but until their computers "believe you" (authentication), you still can't use it.
Londovir
Londovir