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What is the Tech Jobs Situation in Late 2004?
CareerConfused asks: "Today I came across an ad in the NY Times, put out by Microsoft, Micron, Level 3 (among others) that claimed that the H-1B visa quota for FY2005 has already expired (it claims the quota expired the first day of FY2005, which started just about a month back). OK. On the one hand, we have
stories of techies not finding jobs; and on the other, we have stories from businesses which claim that lack of H1s is killing their business, as well as public advocacy (like that ad in NYT). So, what is it? Are we in another boom, with jobs going a-begging and companies requiring more H1s to fill them? How come I haven't noticed this in the form of a fatter paycheck (or an Aeron chair, or a fooseball table in the cubicle)?" What have you experienced in your searches for technology-based jobs? Is it still hard to sell your hard-earned skills or are things looking up?
While its one thing to claim that the lack of H1Bs is killing your business because Americans don't want to move to Fort Wayne, Indiana. It's quite another to say that you can't find a job in Silicon Valley. What's needed is an overall view of how tech jobs are doing across the country. What areas are in desperate need of technical skills and what areas are suffering from a shortage of jobs?
i couldn't find much in Houston, TX of all places, very tech orientated city, ended up joining the military for a real tech job. 2E251: Computer, Network, Cryptographic, and Switching Systems :) hell yea.
President Bush Supporter
My company has been seeing a lot of turnover (both incoming and outgoing) lately. People leave because of better jobs and people come in because this place is better than where they were. I'm not sure if that means the market is better or worse, but it's certainly a little more mobile than I remember.
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
I posted an ad for a help desk position for my small company on craigslist.
I received sixty resumes in four days. And probably 20% were well-to-over-qualified.
Now I'll only comment quickly that the job is mediocre on a good day and Cincinnati blows. The mid-west it seems is teaming with tech jobs though. That doesn't mean I'll stay here but apparently there are co-op jobs a plenty out here that go un filled while I spent last summer mowing lawns for lack of a co-op position.
From my experience techs jobs are mostly only available in certain areas which are cheaper to operate a business in. People my age don't want to move to the mid west though (I'm moving back [someone give me a job in the Boston area]) and older people have already put down roots somewhere else.
AFAIK most people are not really looking for jobs because they think there aren't any out there. This would lead companies to think there is a short supply of people. If you'd like to jump ship, get looking for something else - don't listen to what people think the situation is. After you're gone, your previous employer will be looking for your replacement. To some extent, the job market is what people perceive it to be.
I think the claimed shortage of H1Bs is total BS. Its just another ploy of big business to get a service cheaper, even if they bankrupt the middle class in the process. There is no shortage of American labor. Programmers (like myself) are taking lower rates, AND still ending up in the lonely midwest. I'm currently on an assignment in Iowa, after spending 6 months in a little cow town in Kansas. There is no shortage of programmers willing to fill these assignments either. I hae calls from friends in the industry all the time asking me if I've heard of any contracting work out here in the midwest. I tried for 2 years to find work as a developer in Houston TX... people I know there are still out of work or have changed careers entirely. One fellow I know, an Oracle admin with many years experience, is doing refrigeration and AC repair because of the competition for IT related jobs in Houston.
I have resigned myself to a life on the road, there just doesn't seem to be much call for full-time developers (as employees) anymore. Will things change? I sure hope so! I miss my home and girlfriend!
cypherz in Sioux City
This sig kills fascists.
I've found that in certain areas the tech market has really increased. I think it this has a lot to do with telemarketing companies opening shop in areas where minimun wage is low and unemployment is high.
There also seem to be quite a few US based companies looking north of the border. With the weakening American dollar that might change...
So in a way, we're exactly like India... except it's colder... and our beer is better.
All your jobs are belong to us, eh!
In my job, I get to do all kinds of different things, so it never gets boring. And I don't have to deal with stuff I don't like (managing windows computers). I get to write code, manage certain hardware/software, consult on networking, set policies, create solutions with open source products, etc. FWIW, I am a network security analyst.
one of the hurdles in getting a H-1B is getting the state's department of labor to sign off that the wage level is kosher.
Oh yeah, I'm sure the labor department is totally up on what the current wages are among, of all things, *tech* jobs. Riiiight.
"The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
I have relatives in the Oil IT industry in Houston, and times are good for them. Of course, they weren't working for Enron, but a lot of relatively smaller oil companies appear to be hiring IT workers. This is anecdotal, but it seems to me that Houston IT workers in the oil industry fared _much_ better during the bust years thanks to higher oil prices.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of oil co's are Microsoft shops.
It seems to me that the solution is pretty easy: Instead of just giving a whole block of visas away once a month, auction off 1/12th of them every month. And, make the visas tradeable.
This would solve several problems with the current system:
(1) The current "First to the trough" assignment method would disappear. Instead, it would be replaced by a "highest value user" method. Companies that truly need some foreign worker b/c there is no American who can do the job will be able to fill those positions. But, companies that are just trying to low-ball their development costs probably won't.
(2) THe disparity between domestic labor and imported foreign labor would shrink, due to the increased cost of the foreign labor.
(3) Helps pay off the budget deficit.
I work at a company that IS in fact in dire need of H1B workers. We are a Symbian company, a fairly well known one at that. However, finding an American with Symbian experience AND the fairly heavy C++ skills we demand is rare at best. We've been in touch with several engineers overseas (primarily in Europe), bu t we're finding that it's extremely difficult to get them into the country.
This isn't a case where we want to outsource jobs, and I can promise you that what we're paying our foreign workers is FAR above our regional average. We simply have a problem finding the relevant experience we need, it's that simple.
Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
I've been helping on hiring at two different companies during the past 20 months or so. I do the tech screens.
The sad fact is that there just isn't that many good candidates out there. In the first company especially - they were located in a not-so-desirable geographical area - we could not find good candidates, who were permanent residents or US citizens, at all. We had a bunch of really great H1-B candidates, but due to all kinds of hassles related to hiring H1-Bs we couldn't hire but one of them (there were half a dozen positions open). This REALLY hurt the company.
I see the same situation in my current job, though I suspect since we're located in a little bit of a better geographical area, we're seeing a few more qualified candidates who are permanent residents or US citizens. However, once again, the best candidates were H1-B visa holders, and we couldn't hire them either. This delayed hiring a new developer by about 6 months.
I'm not sure what the problem is, but there just doesn't appear to be enough GOOD candidates out there.
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
Yes I agree, their marketing is a little dubious. Most of the jobs they show you that look interesting are the ones that require you to be an Officer and hence have a college degree. I have the utmost respect for people that would make this kind of a sacrifice for their country, but I do believe some people are just plain naive. They find a women, knock her up 5 times, then join the military and get the free health care and the crummy pay and just end up staying there until they die or are lucky enough to move out. Then there are the ones who are just doing it to get the money for college or whatever, expecting that they won't get sent anywhere. It's a little annoying when you hear them complain about being shipped off as if it said in their contract (for the military) that they would never have to do anything that involved real fighting.
Can't find a job? Go to grad school. Get paid around $20k (30 with an NSF fellowship, although your chances of getting one are around 1 in 11), work your ass off, get fed up with your far superior peers and then get a job as an assistant professor who has to slave for 10 years before they get tenured! Woohoo! After all, for every Dilbert there's someone that's Piled High and Deep.
What you can do, seriously, is just attend grad school and look for a job while you're there. You have financial security if you're enrolled in a PhD program that pays you (like most sciences), and your resume looks better with the "Master's expected June 2006" at the top. You can always quit (even if your department will hate you) when you find a job.
Me and my gf live in a nice size 1BR downtown for a cool two grand a month. Unreal. I rent a 3 bedroom house with attached garage on a corner lot in a suburb of Sacramento for $610 a month. Hope your landlord enjoys that money.
i work for the State of Texas in IT (sysadmin) and from 1998 to 2004 we have seen:
1) no raises (as in NONE)
2) annual increase in health benefit premiums
3) firings (!) and forced retirements (yes, i know this one is hard to believe, and they weren't all your classic "State Loafers" - we lost some good talent in that mess)
4) decreasing morale and petty managerial behavior (attendance is suddenly important for salaried employees, with "spies" everywhere as well as a sudden rush to "micromanagement")
5) all career moves de-facto frozen, and whatever job openings are left have been politically predetermined (but they'll fit you right into the interview process just to make things "look" normal)
hell, i could live with it if they at least threw a COLA adjustment at us every year (even the controversial 2% would suffice for a morale boost).
the scariest part has been watching the programmer jobs melt away to hourly positions given only to contractors or graduate students...when they used to pay $50k and up!
meanwhile, faculty and management still get their raises and perks...
oh yes, i've interviewed for about 2 jobs every year now for 6 years, some "in" and some "out" (even retained 2 headhunting firms) and all i see out there are companies wanting a $200k/yr employee for about $50k/yr (you know the drill, expensive and esoteric certification, overtime, working at home, looking like a zombie, no benefits, mandatory traveling, etc.)
my miserable ass is staying put for now.
Oh Bollocks. There was a report on NPR this spring about the H1B visa program. Employers are getting around the prevailing wage rule by changing the classification of the job so they can pay the H1B visa receipents a much lower wage and still get the work done. And it isn't just a few, apparently the reporter found out that the vast majority of companies that hire H1B visa holders pay significantly less than the prevailing wage.
Back in '92, I was laid off from a position in the rural midwest. After taking the summer (almost) off, I was looking at 3 openings. One in the bay area for an ungodly amount of money. Another in one of the "metro" areas' 'burbs out here for a modest salary. And, a third in a different rural area for slightly less then the "metro" area. Fortunately, I had friends in all 3 locations who forwarded me various housing (and, yes, I was quite cool with renting, considering my situation) and cost of living information.
Looking at what I was likely to end up with in my savings account or as disposable income after a year in all 3 locations, the bay area, to be blunt, sucked donkey dick. This didn't even take into account what it would cost to move. In fact, when I related these numbers to the prospective employers, they said I "would be fucking nuts" to consider their offer. To be fair to those guys, it was this kind of honesty which kept any kind of interest with them.
Try state government- you may have to commute to Salem, but agencies like ODOT are hiring, and can't afford the people with the pretty paperwork (I'm currently working on going permanent into a position of Remedy Developer- I've used Remedy but have never programmed for it in my life, but people with Remedy Certs get paid twice as much in private industry as the State is willing to pay, and to top it off, they're willing to provide training).
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Not much going on. Maybe one job every other day.
Luckily there is a rise in the number of contracts wanting big-beast, coloured-text screens and the associated batch, DB2 lifting. Programming in IBMRPG is like building a Georgian House, the code certainly seems to stick one in the eye of Chronos.
OO is great (for GUI work, especially), but not so great that it will lead to massive demolition of existing stone structures.
We saw this happen to the high-street in 1960s Left-wing, trendy progressiveness - a catastrophe that we have had to live with for a long time afterwards.
I would like to see IBMRPG fork or hybridise, with one branch keeping Java for those who are religiously fundamental and the other dropping it like a hot stone in favour of gaining Python-esqe abilities for the few others that take an interest in evolution.
But I am economically inactive (nearly 8 million of us in the UK under Blair and the trend is up).
So nobody should care what I want!
You know the catch-22 when getting a job:
"Sorry kid, you don't have the experience to do this job."
"But how do I get experience if you don't hire me?"
For the past 4 years almost every sector has lost jobs, including tech. The job market seems less stingy than before, but for four years, many people haven't even been getting experience, so how can you hire experienced people?
The tech sector seems pretty stupid to me with regards to handling "experience". In manufacturing, you were hired at a plant because you were eager, hard working, and listened to the boss. You got experience while actually working, and people were in it for the long haul. The tech sector expects you to have 10 years experience in 3 year old technologies. I've also seen few decent training programs designed to hire promising college grads and mold them into the type of worker a company wants. Many of those programs died with the bubble, but they need to come back!!
I've seen several posts on this thread talk about "I can't find good qualified workers" but how many of those posters belong to a company who actually tries to bring in new hirees at the entry level and make their own qualified workers? Or do they just expect to fall off the tree that way?
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Except for some minor exceptions, the overall job outlook (tech jobs included) in upstate NY isn't good. Locally (Rochester) the unemployment rate has officially gone below 5%, but that has to be taken in light of significantly fewer jobs and an overall declining population. The number of people who've simply given up is not known, of course.
My company, one of the major local employers, is slowly abandoning engineering and manufacturing for a strategy of purchased products and service offerings. The number of engineering openings in the company these days is roughly about 1/10 of the total. The rest are sales and marketing, particularly for acquired products.
You realize your annual salary is probably a fraction of what your CEO's office furniture is worth, don't you?
...
Our Director of sales is sitting at a desk that cost the company $120,000.00.. His chair cost more than every regular employee's car in the parking lot at $45,000.00
And then management wonders why the workers have no respect for them.....
Maybe they need to form a focus group to study it.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
H1-B are (suppose) to be paid at the same rate. The issue is supply and demand. By allowing more H1-B's you can increase supply for a fixed demand. That helps keep wages lower. So of course companies want more H1-B's
We are currently seeking a Software Engineer. Individual must be proficient with computer programming and knowledgeable about computer technology. Qualified candidate must be committed to producing quality work and work well with others. This is an extremely challenging position and requires commitment and perseverance. If you are a competent programmer and are looking for a rewarding challenge, we look forward to hearing from you. Please submit your resume and cover letter, including a sample of your programming ability, in any language.
According to their web site, they're only looking for one person, which contradicts what they're telling the press.
What Brittania actually sells is a bookkeeping application for small office-supply stores.
Well, I have worked as a recruiter for technical positions for the last 5 years or so. In doing so, I have watched the boom and the bust, and the one commonality is that the landscape continues to change. We do regional recruiting as well as national hiring for a few publicly traded firms. All of them are having more and more trouble finding talent then they did last year, or even a few months ago. I think it is because a lot of companies, both big and small, have done some hiring over the last year or so. All alone, each of these firms does not amount to much, but multiplied across the nation time and time again, and you wind up with the available talent pool drying up pretty quickly.
Much like a buyers or sellers market in real estate. This thinner pool of available or candidates is driving a better job market for the job seeker, better wages and more opportunities. All someone needs to do to be in this situation is put their resume on job boards like, Monster, Dice, Careerbuilder and such. They also need to open the paper every Sunday and apply to openings. An added plus is that with a lack of candidates, compensation, which was on the decline for a couple years, is finally going the other direction; and employees who hired on to do high level work at minimum wage are moving on to better jobs and better pay. Overall, I think the hiring outlook in technical fields is really heating up and the prospects are good. From what I have seen even people who had there jobs outsourced overseas are able to find work if they are willing to relocate.
Mostly I'm wondering WTF is up with all the IT people whining about their job market. They were lucky to have that market and, if they spent it all rather than saving it, that's their own damned fault. My industry (pharmaceutical R&D) hasn't seen double digit raises, ever, that I'm aware of. Unless you're an executive. They've been taking double-digit raises every year while the research scientists get (at best) a 2% raise. My industry has never hired (the equivalent of) people who program a few lines of some script kiddie language (html + all of it's illegitimate children) for $80k, give them 35 hour workweeks, and 4 weeks of vacation. The scientific sector has been well aware of the influence of H1B and foreign graduate students since before you could fit a computer in a single building.
I have no sympathy for the IT field. Finally you guys can start hanging on by your fingernails like the rest of us do.
+++ATHZ 99:5:80
when it comes to IT jobs, especially UNIX
IT jobs. Prerequisite: CURRENT TS clearance,
with Lifestyle/Polygraph (prefer "transferable").
Since DHS has decided (regretably) to hang their
hat on the (less secure) Microsoft "suite" of
OS and Apps, an MSCE with a TS clearance would
have better luck in the Metro DC area -- homeland
security and the military-industrial complex is
the only IT job growth in this region.
If you don't already have a TS clearance - forget
it, 'cause it takes too long and costs the new
employer way too much to risk on a new hire.
Basic "Catch-22": if you have it (especially
transferable), your ticket is golden. Otherwise,
you are sucking wind.
If I knew 15 years ago what I know today, I would
have gone into electrical or plumbing journeyman-
ship instead of IT (especially UNIX, which NOBODY
wants without the TS clearance.) As a bonus,
those jobs cannot be outsourced overseas, either.
(At least until such time as broadband robotic
certification goes into these fields (?).)
First off, I'll graduate this May with a Masters of Science in Electrical and Computer Engineering from the University of Oklahoma.
Second off, last week I formally accepted a job from IBM's Microelectronics group as a design engineer.
My experiences with finding a position were that it was pretty easy, actually. I interviewed with several groups at IBM, Microsoft, and National Instruments, and receieved offers from each company (including multiple offers from IBM). I also received offers for site interviews and effectively offers for offers from other companies in the defense industry, embedded systems contract work, and a variety of software fields.
All in all, I haven't had a bit of trouble finding a job. In fact, I was faced with choosing from great jobs from the world leaders in several different fields.
Yes, I'm bragging, but this is the one and only time I'll do it.
So I agree with you -- It's getting better, if you're one of those "decent people" the parent poster mentioned. My experiences were that across the US things are getting better... I had offers in Arizona, Washington, and Texas, and offers for offers in Florida, New York, and Minnesota.
The moral of this post might be:
* Get involved on campus -- become an officer for a student organization
* Get an internship -- it helps you figure out what you do and don't want to do, and gets you experience working with various types of teams and in various fields.
* Go to a career fair -- meet recruiters, even if you're a freshman. I've known recruiters from many companies for 4+ years since I met them in the Fall of 2000 when I entered OU out of high school
* Find the career services office for your college or your university -- Have them vett your resume, and attend mock interviews, info sessions, whatever you can
If anyone cares, my resume's on my website.
~ Mike
Michael C. Hollinger
That being said, I have had a look at some of the applicants, and I have to tell you, maybe it's the 9 years of previous retail experience talking, but some of the guys who apply for jobs... need polishing.
The first is attitude. I am not talking about, "I demand the following..." type of people, I am talking about grumpy, bitter people who look at our industry standard salaries and make comments about how they used to make TWICE that for HALF the work... They don't exactly come out and say that, but it comes out in other comments, like, "My previous job was for Verizon until they decided to outsource all our groups to India... leaving me out in the cold!" Yeah, sorry about that, but your negative attitude doesn't look so hot in front of the other execs, okay? And don't be afraid to admit you don't know something, because honesty is rare and appreciated.
Then we have those who... need someone with style to look them over before they go out for an interview. I haven't had a guy with a hygiene problem or anything, but when you get people who wear olive green dress shirts obviously 2 sizes too small, a non-matching tie, and jeans... again, the execs. You could be the most skilled UNIX Guru since Eric Raymond, but when some HR screener who doesn't even know what a UNIX is or does, they are going to pass. Trim that beard, get a flattering haircut, and don't slouch. Go to a nice men's store, and ask someone there to dress you for an interview in this decade.
Again, I know, it's unfair to be judged by appearance and personality, but it's no longer a techie's market. Good looks and attitude can really make or break an interview.
If I have to choose between two people who have the same skillset, I will always choose the guy or gal with a better personality and polish. Sometimes even if they don't know as much, because I'd rather teach someone a few things rather than deal with someone I don't feel comfortable with in an enclosed pod.
Employers pay a fee to the US Govt. to apply for H1-B. Those funds are earmarked for the Labor Department to promote advanced education programs for already-working US college grads.
Most of the training is provided by state universities, but you're allowed to propose how you want the training done, e.g., fly in an expert for a couple of weeks to tutor your team.
This falls under the WIA program that's managed by county govt. (or regional multi-county offices) in most states. Matching funds from your company can usually be provided just by continuing to pay salary during the training period.
I sat in on a one-year review of this program in DC last fall. Near as I could tell, there's plenty of dough to spread around. Btw, in case you're wondering if I'm a spook, don't worry. Just a data cruncher who does fund accounting.
What the Dept. of Labor wants out of this is to be able to keep the political pressure off to raise the H1B quota by delivering the tech skills to US workers.
I'd take them up on this myself, 'cept I didn't graduate...