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The Mystery of Cell Processors
LucidBeast writes "Consumer appliances requiring more computing power Sony, IBM and Toshiba started 2001 developing "Cell"-processor that comprises of multiple processor cores and should give performance ten times of conventional processors. Now the CNN Money reports that details of the processor will be released Feb. 6-10 at the International Solid State Circuits Conference in San Francisco. Also reported by EE Times. Rumors also tell that Sonys PS3 development platform has already been shipped to some developers equipped with the cell processor."
Chip power, times 10
Sony, IBM, Toshiba disclose details of new processor that will run next-generation electronics.
November 29, 2004: 6:13 AM EST
TOKYO (Reuters) - IBM, Sony Corp. and Toshiba Corp. on Monday unveiled some key details on the powerful new "Cell" processor the three are jointly producing to run next-generation computers, game consoles and TVs.
Cloaked in secrecy and the object of much speculation since the three conglomerates announced the project in 2001, Cell will be 10 times more powerful than conventional chips and able to shepherd large chunks of data over broadband networks.
In a joint release, the three firms gave a glimpse of their respective plans for Cell-powered products, but were mum on technical details, which will be revealed Feb. 6-10 at the International Solid State Circuits Conference in San Francisco.
IBM (Research), Sony (Research) and Toshiba are investing billions of dollars to develop and prepare for mass production of Cell, which is a multicore semiconductor composed of several processors that work together to handle multiple tasks at the same time.
"In the future, all forms of digital content will be converged and fused onto the broadband network," Ken Kutaragi, executive deputy president and COO of Sony, said in the release. "Current PC architecture is nearing its limits."
IBM said it would start pilot production of the microprocessor at its plant in East Fishkill, N.Y., in the first half of 2005. It will use advanced 300 millimeter silicon wafers, which yield more chips per wafer than the 200 mm kind.
It also announced plans to first use the chip in a workstation it is developing with Sony, targeting the digital content and entertainment industries.
Sony said it would launch home servers and high-definition televisions powered by Cell in 2006, and reiterated plans to use the microchip to power the next-generation PlayStation game console, a working version of which will be unveiled in May.
Toshiba said it planned to launch a high-definition TV using Cell in 2006. Top of page
Always value the individual over the system. --Bruce Lee "I don't need a Sig - I have a custom 191" - me
"Consumer appliances requiring more computing power Sony, IBM and Toshiba started 2001 developing "Cell"-processor that comprises of multiple processor cores and should give performance ten times of conventional processors."
What in the hell does that sentence mean? I can handle a couple of spelling or grammatical problems, but seriously! What the fuck does that mean? Are 3 companies working together to create this Cell processor, or are there three different Cell processors...
About 10 processor cores, right?
They should have enough power to divide by zero by now, right? or is that still to "difficult"
... should give performance ten times of conventional processors.
Twenty times, after absorbing an android or two.
-Stephen
Actually Apu and Manjula are the proud parents of eight well behaved children.
details of the processor will be released Feb. 6-10
;-)
it gives a 10 times performance gain over a normal processor, from the year 2001 of course, which will be something like a 1.3 GHz P4 or a 800 MHz Celeron, both introduced in january 2001
Now it is true that multiple core chips seem to be where everyone is headed. Even so, I'm not sure how these magical chips will "converge and fuse" digital content. Remeber that this article is A) light on details, and B) put together by a person who is vying for your dollar/pound/yen etc.
Always value the individual over the system. --Bruce Lee "I don't need a Sig - I have a custom 191" - me
When PS2 was launched, incredible specs were also touted; on delivery it ended up cheaper but not more powerful than a high-spec PC with a good video card one year later. I am afraid we might end up with another mediocre product at a reasonable price point. Sony should concentrate on portable systems integration which is where its real expertise lies.
This is not a signature.
These multi core and multi processor systems can be a bugger to program for because handling concurrrency in a way that doesnt cause deadlocking is a major pain in the ass.
One of the better ways is to model out the program in CSP (or a variant thereof) and then write in a specially designed language like Occam (developed for the original transputer, but ported now to x86). These give you code that cannot deadlock or livelock or suffer from resource starvation without needing any of the complex and buggy hacks you see in things like the Linux kernel. And the Linux kernel only has to deal with a few processors... scalling to a few thousand processors in C would require a programmer of insane genius or the implimentation of effectivly a new language on top of C to handle the problems caused.
So, what language do developers use to target this? Is it something elegant designed for the problem at hand?
Beep beep.
Sounds like Playstation3 vs. XBox2 will look like a battle between a Terminator T1000 and Clippy.
Signature deleted by lameness filter.
But UNC's Zimmons has his doubts. "I believe that while theoretically having a large number of transistors enables teraflops-class performance, the PS3 [Playstation 3] will not be able to deliver this kind of power to the consumer," quoted from /. referenced article.
Zimmons talks the details.
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
I currently work at a game studio here in Melbourne Australia and we're looking at next gen stuff (currently we develop xbox, ps2, PC games). Anyway, today at a meeting, one of the senior developers told our group that 4 had been selected to go to a little show and tell by IBM/Sony in Melbourne, where some of the secrets of the "Cell" processor would be demonstrated/explained to the group. Apparently we were only able to get 4 spots at this event.
So I'm exicited looks like the tech in just around the corner and so are the multi-core platforms (like XBOX2 and PS3).... yay!
...the current computer architecture is nearing its limits yes, but it has no relationship to the content. A modern processor is very well capable of decoding HDTV content, probably encode too if you can accept less than super compression.
Of course, I see where it is going, I assume these Cell chips will be used to control hardware encoders/decoders with hard real-time limits (i.e. no frame skips and such crap). Taking the best of "dumb" hardware players of today, combined with the multitasking and flexibility of general computers.
But it is still a computer in drag. If anything, this seems more like a "retro" trend of the past, when you had active NICs/HDD controllers/whatnot with processors of their own. Now it is back with Cells instead. Just like terminals, we're coming full circle.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You mean, like a MOS 6502 processor? I've never checked it, but I've been told that's what the code that was shown in the "terminator view" in Terminator 1 was: 6502 assembly. Did they update it in any of the later movies? Say, to a 6510 or a 68510 ?
The article mentions that the Cell CPU will be included in a HDTV from the year 2006. Anyone know what such a powerful CPU is doing in a TV ?
or take a look at the 2002 patent application:
http://theinquirer.net/?article=19941
Cell Processor-Based Workstation Prototype
The companies expect that a one rack Cell processor-based workstation will reach a performance of 16 teraflops or trillions of floating point calculations per second.
Cell Processor Unveiled
IBM, Sony Corporation, and Toshiba Corporation today unveiled for the first time some of the key concepts of the highly-anticipated advanced microprocessor, code-named Cell, they are jointly developing for next-generation computing applications, as well as digital consumer electronics.
Specifically, the companies confirmed that Cell is a multicore chip comprising a 64-bit Power processor core and multiple synergistic processor cores capable of massive floating point processing. Cell is optimized for compute-intensive workloads and broadband rich media applications, including computer entertainment, movies and other forms of digital content.
Other highlights of the Cell processor design include: -- Multi-thread, multicore architecture. -- Supports multiple operating systems at the same time. -- Substantial bus bandwidth to/from main memory, as well as companion chips. -- Flexible on-chip I/O (input/output) interface. -- Real-time resource management system for real-time applications. -- On-chip hardware in support of security system for intellectual property protection. -- Implemented in 90 nanometer (nm) silicon-on-insulator (SOI) technology. Additionally, Cell uses custom circuit design to increase overall performance, while supporting precise processor clock control to enable power savings.
IBM, Sony Group and Toshiba will disclose more details about Cell in four technical papers scheduled for presentation at the International Solid State Circuits Conference. "Less than four years ago, we embarked on an ambitious collaborative effort with Sony Group and Toshiba to create a highly-integrated microprocessor designed to overcome imminent transistor scaling, power and performance limitations in conventional technologies," said Dr. John E. Kelly III, senior vice president, IBM. "Today, we're revealing just a sampling of what we believe makes the innovative Cell processor a premiere open platform for next-generation computing and entertainment products." "Massive and rich content, like multi-channel HD broadcasting programs as well as mega-pixel digital still/movie images captured by high-resolution CCD/CMOS imagers, require huge amount of media processing in real-time. In the future, all forms of digital content will be converged and fused onto the broadband network, and will start to explode," said Ken Kutaragi, executive deputy president and COO, Sony Corporation, and president and Group CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. "To access and/or browse sea of content freely in real-time, more sophisticated GUI within the 3D world will become the 'key' in the future. Current PC architecture is nearing its limits, in both processing power and bus bandwidth, for handling such rich applications." "The progressive breakdown of barriers between personal computers and digital consumer electronics requires dramatic enhancements in the capabilities and performance of consumer electronics. The Cell processor meets these requirements with a multi-processor architecture/design and a structure able to support high-level media processing. Development of this unsurpassed, high-performance processor is well under way, carried forward by dedicated teamwork and state-of-the-art expertise from Toshiba, Sony Group and IBM," said Mr. Masashi Muromachi, Corporate Vice President of Toshiba Corporation and President & CEO of Toshiba's Semiconductor Company. "Today's announcement shows the substantial progress that has been made in this joint program. Cell will substantially enhance the performance of broadband-empowered consumer applications, raise the user-friendliness of services realized through these applications, and facilitate the use of information-rich media and comm
I don't think that a game console needs such a so sophisticated and so powerful CPU, for important reasons:
-Real-time 3d graphics of cinematic quality will always be too slow for general purpose CPUs.
-developing a game with AI that needs ten times the power of todays CPUs will take many man years and may not be that welcomed by the console audience.
-It's very difficult to do multithreaded apps, and the difficulty rises exponentially with the number of threads.
So what exactly would the be role of the CELL processor in PS3?
It would make much more sense if:
-Sony developed a platform that can move insanely great amount of graphics around, with the ability to do real-time raytracing, rather than providing so much general-purpose processing power.
-Sony developed a graphics architecture that could really be parallelised, so instead of bringing out a totally new console, they could just up the graphics spec by adding more chips. They could save millions of dollars from developing and advertising the new console.
Funny. Windows adapt to a new processor! ROTFLMAO.
Linux could adapt VERY quickly to any new processor, as long as the number of "cell" is kept reasonable. However, is you are talking of a massively parallel system with dozens of processors sharing the same memory space, I do not know how well it will work.
I would not hold my breath for a Windows version. The Athlon 64s have only been out for over a year now, and Windows is not even going to support this evolutionary step for a several more months. They have a glacial speed when it comes to upgrading processor support. And Microsoft has been 100% x86 architecure (with few exceptions) for their entire history. They made CE (and PocketPC) which runs on PDA processors, and they make NT for the Alpha. Did they ever make Windows for the Itanic?
***
Now, on to a separate question. I read the EE Times article, and I cannot tell any conceptual difference between this "cell" architecure and the new multi-core processors from AMD and Intel (when they arrive). Can anybody clue me in? There was some mention of how software can handle things, but is there any reason that this could not be done in x86? I am afraid that, from a hardware standpoint, I still don't get what the big deal is.
OK. I admit it. I am a hardware geek. Hardware is the light side, and software is the dark side. That's my standpoint. Get used to it. I design digital hardware for a living. It could very well be completely revolutionary software going on here (but I doubt it).
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
The Cell processor is going to rule!
After all, look how accurate Sony's hype about the PS2 was:
The PS2 will be able to render 75 million lit, shaded polygons per second!
The PS2 will be able to run games at HDTV resolution (1280x960) out of the box with no performance loss!
We will build professional workstations out of 32 Emotion Engine chips which will be able to render movies in realtime and take over the professional graphics industry!
Since all the hype turned out to be completely 100% accurate, I'm sure we can expect the same for the PS3 / Cell Processor.
I suppose it's also possible that it will be another massively over-hyped disappointment with builtin Sony patented lameness that sucks even harder than ATRAC. But you'd have to be a real fucking cynic to believe that!
If this part reaches the promised performance, will CPUs then overtake GPUs for SIMD-type operations? Will a software implementation of OpenGL running on a Cell system top the performance of whatever NVidia and ATI are selling by then?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
There's only one small problem with your contention - Linux /does/ scale out to at least 512 processors - hardly 'a few' - and is heading up to multiple thousands with SGI's current work.
Of course, one could argue that the Linux folks have more than one insane genius among them...
Playing first-person shooters on a console is frustrating, since the control is designed for a keyboard and mouse. Similarly, playing a typical console 3D platformer like Wind Waker on a PC will be equally frustrating since the control is designed for console pads.
It's the nature of the beast. And until someone sorts out the control differences, PC vs. console play will always fall short for one of the two.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
This does not surprise me in the least. A Prescott processor has 125 million transistors, a Motorola 68000 had 68000 transistors. Yet the Prescott is not 1838 times more productive on a per clock-cycle basis. Admittedly, some of those Prescott transistors go to cache, superscalar magic, creating long fast pipes to achieve the GHz and implementing nifty MMX features. Even so, fabbing a 68k in 90 nm would create a tight little processor that is not 1800 times slower than the Prescott.
Thus, one can imagine creating a tighter core processor design with a budget of a million transistors each (15 times the original 68k budget) with a few million for L1 cache and another million for glue and then place 20 of them on a single die. Add optical interconnects and that new optical-to-silicon technology invented recently (for multiple channels of GHz I/O to feed all those cores) and you have yourself a powerful little processor.
The point is that with a budget of 125 million transistors, designers can do more than create a bloated single-core CISC processor.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Considering the companies involved, and the devices that they want to put the chip in, I'm really tempted to say that the Cell is nothing more than the biggest effort we've ever seen to get a DRM (trusted computing) CPU and associated parts on to the market. Obviously, this scares the bejesus out of me, since it would mean that these Cell devices would effectively be mod-proof; systems like Xbox Live already keep cheaters away, so this seems to be an attempt to stop modding alltogether. So, I have to ask: how is this going to benefit me, the consumer? If Live already gets rid of possible cheaters, how does stopping me from modding my box altogether help me?
If these assumptions are right, I don't like where this is going.
or is that still to "difficult"
TOO/0 = TO
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but what do i know, i'm just a model.
Sony originally promised the PS2 could render 75M simple polygons per second, but also said the geometry engine's limit was 36M polygons per second. This figure is accurate, but like all such numbers in the graphics industry, it is achievable only in a single-function demo app. Such figures are useful only for comparing the raw performance of different designs.
m l
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Sony never claimed the PS2 could support HDTV resolution. The company was very clear about the limited frame-buffer memory on the Graphics Synthesizer chip.
Sony did, in fact, make a multiprocessor PS2-based workstation, the GSCube, which combined 16 complete PS2-compatible subsystems. The "Graphics Synthesizer I-32" chip used in this system had a 32MB HDTV-sized frame buffer, leading me to speculate at the time (August 2000) that Sony would soon introduce an HD-capable PS2. They could have, but they never did. I can't get 'em all right, I guess. They demonstrated to me (personally) this system rendering scenes from the Final Fantasy movie in real time, so that wasn't hype either.
Here are the Microprocessor Report articles I wrote at the time (subscribers only):
http://www.mdronline.com/mpr/h/19990419/130501.ht
http://www.mdronline.com/mpr/h/2000/0821/143402.h
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6502? So he'll kill you and beat you at Nintendo!
English is easier said than done.