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Kazaa Trial In Australia Underway

wadiwood writes "Five record companies are suing the makers of Kazaa. Sharman (moved to vanuatu in Feb 2004) say they are not responsible for what their users do with the software. Personally I don't get what Sony is doing selling MP3 players for all your "favourite tunes" and then selling music which they say you are not allowed to copy to their MP3 players, but that's another story."

19 of 177 comments (clear)

  1. More info here .. by macaulay805 · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is more info here: Afterdawn.com

  2. "I don't get what Sony is doing..." by Anita+Coney · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the US it is perfectly legal to rip purchased CDs into MP3 format for non-commerical use.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    1. Re:"I don't get what Sony is doing..." by theparanoidcynic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, but it's not legal to circumvent the DRM on the discs to rip them . . . . .

      --
      Only in a Slashdot fantasy can a Slackware install turn into several hours of sex . . . . .
    2. Re:"I don't get what Sony is doing..." by Anita+Coney · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, only in America is it legal to copy music but illegal to hold down the shift key!

      --
      If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    3. Re:"I don't get what Sony is doing..." by theparanoidcynic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What is this "shift key" of which you speak? I'm breaking the law simply by using an OS that doesn't support their precious DRM system. All us *nix users (including those with that "mainstream" BSD-based Apple thing) are criminals for putting DRMed CDs in our computers without being willing or able to run their RIAA virus.

      --
      Only in a Slashdot fantasy can a Slackware install turn into several hours of sex . . . . .
    4. Re:"I don't get what Sony is doing..." by mark-t · · Score: 4, Informative
      Actually it is still perfectly legal, regardless of what manufacturers and publishers might think or even want.

      Read the text of the DMCA carefully. Pay particularly attention to section 1201, subsection c (Sorry, I don't have a link handy). There is a specific exemption in it that says that it shall not infringe on fair use.

      So really, the only time the DMCA can be applied to someone is when they were breaking the law already anyways (even if the DMCA weren't law), which makes the DMCA redundant at best, and a waste of everyone's time at worst.

    5. Re:"I don't get what Sony is doing..." by Yartrebo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That exception doesn't extend to the provisions against distributing software to get around said copy restriction software. It might be legal to use DeCSS for fair use, but it's illegal to give it to others or receive if from others.

      This kind of makes the fair use exception of the DMCA useless.

    6. Re:"I don't get what Sony is doing..." by tambo · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So really, the only time the DMCA can be applied to someone is when they were breaking the law already anyways (even if the DMCA weren't law), which makes the DMCA redundant at best, and a waste of everyone's time at worst.

      The DMCA is contradictory on this point. It does state that it won't be construed to change fair use concepts. But it also states, quite clearly, that copyright measures cannot be circumvented. It's not clear which section controls. One would hope the rules of statutory construction (particularly, a bias toward non-contradictory interpretation) would favor the former - i.e., implicitly, one may break copyright enforcement measures in furtherance of fair use - but this is not at all clear.

      Also: The DMCA criminalizes some activity that isn't fair use, but that must fairly be permitted. For instance, reverse-engineering for commercial purposes is not typically regarded as fair use, but has been tolerated in the interest of market competition. Lexmark comes to mind here, in its attempt to assert the DMCA against a company that reverse-engineered its printer hardware in order to produce non-Lexmark-branded (and infinitely cheaper) toner cartridges. Of course, Lexmark lost that suit, but the ruling was quite limited to the field of access/lockout codes.

      - David Stein

      --
      Computer over. Virus = very yes.
    7. Re:"I don't get what Sony is doing..." by debest · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually it is still perfectly legal, regardless of what manufacturers and publishers might think or even want.

      Read the text of the DMCA carefully. Pay particularly attention to section 1201, subsection c (Sorry, I don't have a link handy). There is a specific exemption in it that says that it shall not infringe on fair use.


      This is essentially correct.

      So really, the only time the DMCA can be applied to someone is when they were breaking the law already anyways (even if the DMCA weren't law), which makes the DMCA redundant at best, and a waste of everyone's time at worst.

      Incorrect.

      The DMCA does not restrict fair use of any copyrighted materials: you may legally bypass any DRM in your way and make non-commercial copies to your heart's content. BUT, the DMCA also makes it (civilly and criminally) illegal to distribute "circumvention devices", free software or otherwise.

      Essentially, you can break the DRM, but you can't ever tell anyone how you did it. You can legally reclaim fair use only if you are technically saavy enough. This is why the EFF wants to mount a challenge to this act: it is a restriction on free speech.

      --
      Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
  3. In answer to the Sony question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Two different departments/subsidiaries/legal companies often have competing interests with competing executives...the old ignorant left hand problem. It's impossible for a large corp to be consistant accross all entities since they have competing interests at various times and are run by different people. Add in your average dose of corporate politics and general large company ineptness and it's shocking that any company of any consequence at all doesn't contradict itself daily.

    As for the rest of it...it's just a fight for the few remaining profits in a changing industry. Once there's no profit left in the standard model or there is more in the digital music distribution models Sony and everyone else will adapt to the new environment. If you want it to happen faster don't buy any music. If you're comfortable with the general level of silliness proceed...either way it's only a matter of time be for the distribution of artistic media changes dramatically.

  4. Did you get permission to use that link? by Bazzargh · · Score: 5, Funny

    6. Linking to Sony Sites
    You must not link to any Sony Site without first obtaining the prior written consent of Sony and such consent must be signed by Sony's Director of Business Affairs to be valid.


    (to which I say: ok, lets wipe you off the face of the internet)...Oh shit now I've done it too: 2...no part of the content of this site may be reproduced in any form without the written consent of Sony...

    1. Re:Did you get permission to use that link? by aero2600-5 · · Score: 5, Informative

      "You must not link to any Sony Site without first obtaining the prior written consent of Sony and such consent must be signed by Sony's Director of Business Affairs to be valid."

      2600 Magazine has already taken this to court against Ford Motor Company and won. A website cannot legally prevent someone from linking to them. Here's a link to the article. The World Wide Web cannot exist in it's present form without the ability to link to anyone you choose. Take Slashdot as example. What if all the websites in these stories didn't want to be linked to? No more Slashdot.. Linking is the premise that the World Wide Web is built on.

      Aero

      --
      Please stop hurting America -- Jon Stewart
  5. The statistics of being sued... by dep01 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wow.. 100 million people use Kazaa.. I think they've put suits out against approx. 4,000 people now? What percentage of 100 million is 4,000? 00.004%? Yeesh. How unlucky do you have to be to be sued by the RIAA? *cringes*

    --
    "hey, could you pass me a paper towel? er.. I mean... DEPLOY ABSORBTION PANEL!"
    1. Re:The statistics of being sued... by Wylfing · · Score: 4, Insightful
      How unlucky do you have to be to be sued by the RIAA?

      Lawsuits are only filed after other thresholds have been met. While I am not privy to all the mechanics of it [1], your chances of being "tagged" by the RIAA in one of their databases as a filesharing IP are quite high. If your IP shows up a lot, you'll make it into a verification stage. If they can verify that you're distributing their stuff, then the lawsuit appears. So the 0.004% of users is just how many have made it into the final, verified stage of (probably massive) copyright infringement. There may be 5-10% who are in process of being verified, or who have not uploaded a sufficient quantity yet to warrant a lawsuit but who are being watched while they do.

      [1] Not so long ago I received a friendly note from my ISP that I was being observed (and the ISP was receiving DMCA threats). I got a pretty good look at what was going on that way.

      --
      Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
  6. In other words: by Pxtl · · Score: 4, Funny

    KaZaa is about to get voted off the island.

    sorry.

  7. Re:Sigh. Is the idea of licensing so hard to grasp by williamhb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Except there is no Fair Use clause in Aussie copyright law. So they can't do this legally in Austrialia, hence why the submitter said this.

    Yes, there is a Fair Use clause in Australian copyright law, it just isn't identical to the one in the US. (and unfortunately while it does cover photocopying parts of books, it doesn't cover copying music from one medium to another).

    However, there is also case law, some of which may be helpful. One example was when an Australian cable network was sued by a free-to-air network because the cable network was rebroadcasting the free-to-air signal (including ads) over cable without permission. Seems like an obvious breach of copyright law - copying the entire network content. But the cable network won, partly on the grounds that they were rebroadcasting the signal to people who were already entitled to receive it, and the free-to-air network couldn't actually prove it had caused any financial loss to them.

    As such, a law suit to stop someone copying their CDs to their own media player might prove difficult, despite it not being covered by fair use.

    But your milage may vary and I am not a lawyer...
  8. Re:First Post by tambo · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Sony is a little mysterious that way! One would think it could recoup some music losses thru its hardware sales.

    In fact, they're trying the opposite tactic. They have essentially missed the whole MP3 player market - entering the field late, and with a product that was both indistinguishable from a dozen also-rans and rendered lame by copyright restrictions. So they are endeavoring to propagate the "repeat media sale" model to these new devices. They sell you one copy of the CD for your home computer, another copy for your car, a third for your MP3 player...

    This is perhaps the greatest threat of the P2P/open-media frontier: the big media gravy train is coming to an end, as the public realizes it should only have to buy content once.

    - David Stein

    --
    Computer over. Virus = very yes.
  9. Re:Kazaa LEGAL !! by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is in Australia; Kazaa was found to be legal in the United States. Australian judges do not consider these rulings when a suit is filed in their court. The makers of Kazaa are still being sued on a regular basis even in the U.S. whenever the recording industry lawyers come up with a new idea for a suit.

  10. Re:The boot by bm17 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is just another example of the american media spreading lies and mistruths about foreign cultures. They use a normal sized boot.