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Given Up to Spyware?
Khuffie writes "Wired has an interesting article about how some people have given up to spyware, knowing that the software they're installing virtually takes over their internet connection. What's even more ironic is that they claim it's a necessary evil for free software, when things like the Google Toolbar virtually replace Gator, and there are many spyware-free P2P programs available."
You know...what's disturbing about the theme of this article, is there is so much free software out there that doesn't require spyware, and all of these people are completely unaware.
---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
Quite simply, this is a situation that can be addressed with education. Since we don't have access to big media, we have to do it by word-of-mouth. This means spreading Firefox and other crap-free alternatives, even free plugins for IE if someone chooses to use that browser. It's also important not to force things on people in our typically annoying geek ways. Educate people, so that they can decide for themselves and realize that there is a world of software in which this stuff is frowned upon and actively fought against. Someday with enough effort, spyware will become an amusing memory.
Shouldn't all this anti -virus, -spyware, -malware, etc. software be added to the TCO for a Windows license both in cost and time?
No, it's not apathy. It's more ignorance. People assume that their computer will work like a dishwasher or a vaccuum cleaner. No unwitting computer user actually thinks that there are things inside their computer that are actively destroying it.
Someone needs to make spyware illegal unless someone actively buys a PC sponsored with the crap. ie. those 'free' bannered PCs from years ago. The average computer user just is not capable of keeping this crap off of their computer. Windows is becoming more and more useless as a plaform because of this 'stuff'.
All I can say is THANK YOU KDE for kiosk mode. I now have my parents surfing with a crap free computer, dynamic DNS, auto-updates, and has been running bug free for months now. 8)
What these people who accept spyware don't seem to realize is just how much it screws with their computer. Even if they DON'T care that some random shady company is stealing their private information, the spyware can still bring their computer to a stand still.
I work in the IT department at my college and 99% of the problems that students have in the dorms is spyware/adware related. I've seen brand new Dell computers literally slowed down to a halt as a result of the crap that has been installed on them within a few days. Students somehow manage to get used to the unbearably slow speed at which their 2-3ghz computers run at, never associating the slowness with the plethora of file-sharing programs, toolbars, and search tools they have installed on their computer.
So yeah, I can't believe that some people actually think that spyware is a necessary evil of free software. That paints a sad picture of the current state of the Internet, IMO. I want to say "People are dumb," but that wouldn be neither fair nor valid. People are simply uneducated in these matters and do not care enough to become educated.
Nothing disturbs me more than blind loyalism towards some unrealistic and over-idealistic notion of one's nationality.
As horrible as it may seem to some /.ers most people don't really care about their privacy - convenience is more important. Hence this acceptance of spyware and reluctance to switch from Windows to a less spyware-prone system.
No wonder many prefer spyware-infested Windows box to a clean Linux system - it's more convenient that way.
The other day I installed Firefox extension SearchStatus 1.0.4 - the main features being display of PageRan and Alexa rank of pages browsed. Of course soon afterwards I realized in order for it to work the extension sends all URL I visit to Alexa.com (and Google, which is indicated in their toolbar privacy-related help pages).
This is how convenience wins over privacy (I disabled the Alexa Rank only).
I've heard from several ISPs that some customers complain when all spam is blocked - they LIKE to receive spam because they're bored or like "specials".
If they are indeed "routing all internet traffic" through them, they may be operating as your proxy for HTTP and HTTPS. When you try to make a secure connection to a site, you tell them. They make an HTTPS connection to the site, their connection is encrypted to the site. The make an HTTPS connection to you. The connection between you and them is encrypted. They see the unencrypted data. So do you.
</wild speculation>.
You like splinters in your crotch? -Jon Caldara
There may be some question about what the user wants and doesn't want, but that doesn't excuse antivirus manufacturers from dodging the problem. If the ability to prevent spyware from installing was ubiquitous (as are virus scanners nowadays) we'd be winning the war. Nobody should have to accept this as an industry practice; things have been getting way too lax with EULAs and intrusive copy protection methods as it is, but this is over the line and we should treat the people who distribute it as we would those who distribute viruses or worms.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
It's people like those interviewed for the article that are the reason spyware and adware exist. People who are CLUELESS, in general and specifically with computers, that don't see the irony in installing a program that records your user/pass combinations and web history to get a "free" "antivirus" "scanner".
Just like Nigerian scams, enlarge your penis spam, etc.
...because we know a lot about tech, and most people don't. We don't tolerate our computers being screwed over with spyware. But - it's only because we know what it is, how bad it is, and what's at stake.
But to put it in perspective - I'm sure a professional mechanic would think I'm exactly the same kind of lunatic if he were to have a look at the brakes on my van. I know there's a problem, and I haven't made it a priority to fix it. The mechanic (bein a pro and knowing what you can and can't get away with) would probably think I was insane.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
While your suggestion would fix the problem, widespread use of it as a cure for what's broken promotes acceptance of bad software.
You shouldn't need to get another piece of hardware to protect a computer that's perfectly capable of protecting itself, running the right software.
Performing workarounds for Windows is what leads to acceptance of worms (just buy a hardware firewall) what leads to acceptance of viruses (just buy an antivirus) and what leads to acceptance of spyware (just buy an antispyware) and what leads to acceptance of systems so bogged down by combinations of the above (just reinstall every 6 months).
It's a bit like living in a really bad neighbourhood and denying it's a problem. "Oh we're OK, we live in a safe area. As long as you put bars on all your windows, don't leave the house when it's dark, put up bullet proof windows, and don't make eye contact with the neighbours you're perfectly safe"
Apart from how it's broken, it works perfectly
I think you just hit the real reason in that last sentence. People are used to putting up with computer related bullshit (crashing software, software/hardware incompatibilities, lost passwords, etc.) that they have conditioned themselves to the reality that computers aren't perfect. Those that don't understand how they work don't know what kinds of bullshit they have to put up with and what kinds can be fixed. They just put up with things as long as the computer is still usable. Kind of like driving a car with plastic bags in place of windows; it just doesn't bother some people enough to make them fix it.
And we ask: can your system's integrity be that easily sold?
Oh fer $*#@ sake...
Look, if you're running closed-source 3rd-party binaries you've already compromised your system integrity. Just because they're from a (currently) reputable company doesn't mean the danger is in any way less than running (say) Bonzi Buddy.
Heck, it's the same even if you're running totally Open Source software! Unless _you personally_ have gone through every
At the end of the day we live in the real world. Cliché's aside this means a level of trust _must_ exist between the end user and the software vendor. Even the most rabid OpenBSD security nuts (not that that's a bad thing) implicitly trust the OpenBSD developers in choosing to run their code.
Steam is a different issue; it has nothing to do with "system integrity". Steam is useful from two perspectives:
- It reduces sofware piracy (online check and all)...
- It allows pre-loads and _instant purchase_ without the user ever having to leave their computer.
While many of us may not be happy with the first feature (reference MS Windows activation), Valve clearly are. And dodgy contract dealings/lawsuits aside, I don't think anyone would argue the worth of being able to do instant purchase/play of new games.Janie took my gun...
We Mac and *nix users should worry about this. The Internet has gotten much worse over the last five years. The sad thing is that users think that this is part of the normal computing experience. They believe that it is okay for strangers to steal their credit card information. They believe that it is okay for their computer to dial long distance to shady places. They believe that whenever they browse the Internet, hundreds of popups should suddenly appear on the screen, and that software magically installs itself. The worst thing is that people are now starting to distrust free software, which will further set back the deployment of free, open-source software in many places.
It is sad and rediculous to see that the maker of the most common operating system in the world has failed at general security this badly. I would have never imagined a few years ago that Windows would get this bad. It's kind of like that Lion King scene (only analogy I can remember) when Simba returns to the Pride Land after leaving there for many years, watching the destruction of the land that he grew up in. Yet lots of users are still stuck in Windows land and don't have a clue about the outside world. They have been conditioned over the years, first to accept instability (2000 and XP fixed that), and now to accept insecurity. Something needs to change on the computing scene in the next year or so.
I haven't yet had to fix my grandparents' computer. It helps that as soon as my grandfather's free two months with AOL expired, he decided the internet wasn't worth all that much to him. Not being online is like abstinence for computers, so their machine is clean. I've had several other people come to me for help though and their computers were simply filthy with junkware.
Like your experience with your grandparents, when I started to explain to them what had gone wrong and what I had done to fix it, they wanted to tell me, "I don't really care." I'm sure it would be uncomfortable doing what I did to one's grandparents, but I let those people have it. I told them that they'd better start caring because the sorts of problems they were experiencing could be prevented with a little bit of due caution. Further, since I never demanded payment and actively tried to turn down compensation (since these people are friends of the family), I refuse to fall into the trap of being obligated to repair their computers when they break them. Obviously, I can't teach all of them everything there is to know about computer maintenence, but I've managed to train several of them on the use of Ad Aware and on responsible internet use.
As an aside to that, I'd like to note that sometimes the problem isn't apathy, but nor is it strictly . I suppose it's a kind of ignorance, but it takes the form of naivety. These people don't realize that the offer for free games or assisted browsing aren't benevolent offers or even just benign advertisements. They trust that whomever has caused these offers to appear on their screen is dealing with them fairly. A little bit of cynicism is valuable in this case. The first thing I've taught my users is that if they haven't asked for something to appear on their screen, don't trust it; and if they haven't specifically sought a good or service, don't accept it.
Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
"People are rationally ignorant."
There is a better word for it. Sucker!. People are suckers. Suckers are there to be fleeced. My friend had a poster that said "Life is tough, it's tougher if you are stupid".
To be honest I love suckers. The world needs the suckers to click on ads, punch the monkey, don't mail in the rebate, buy the shiny objects next to the loss leaders, etc.
The rest of us can take advantage of them getting fleeced by mailing in the rebates and only buying the loss leaders.
The suckers click on ads so I get free internet content and filter the ads out.
"Its amazing the threshold for bullshit some people put up with for computers."
Life's tougher if you are stupid.
evil is as evil does
I've seen people get infested with spyware or viruses...and rather than fix the computer they just throw it away and get a new one.
Imagine if your car was running poorly... Had a flat tire, or the alternator was going... Rather than take the car to the mechanic (or fix it yourself) you just throw the thing away and buy a new one.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
This probably hurts open source software...
Gator says "free", Firefox says "free". To someone without access to additional information, there's nothing to tell them apart. To people that are savvy enough to not just install ramdom crap, it probably holds back adoption.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
If you could buy a nice, brand-new car for under $1000, you would probably consider tossing it and buying a new one when something serious broke.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Did you notice what it said under the little logo in the upper left corner? Beta.
B-E-T-A.
Google adds stuff to gmail all the time, but whining about it on Slashdot gives little result. Drop them a mail.
I did about POP and SMTP, and they served up secure POP and SMTP when enough people suggested it.
I think the average Slashdotter uses what is the right tool for the right job. While Linux is cool for some things, Windows has its own set of advantages.
Being a zealot about a thing is fine, but not at the cost of being pragmatic. A computer is just a tool, and sometimes Windows works and sometimes Linux works. As simple as that.
For computers (like you pr0n loving uncle's) that are past the "critical point" of spyware programs (i.e. shitloads of the stuff), think of it like a Wack-A-Mole game. Now, in the case of spyware, think of it like a Wack-A-Mole game with 500, posessed, cracked out, hyperactive, mutant moles that have predator-like camo. Now, just you playing you have little chance of winning. Get your buddies Ad-Aware and Spybot and you have a better chance, but it still sucks. You could play for hours and you MIGHT win eventually. Reformatting is like taking 20 gallons (75.7 L) of gasoline (petrol), dousing the whole game, and having the immense satisfaction of torching the entire thing, moles and all.
There may have been other ways, but the reformat is still the quickest and easiest in some cases. The people I feel real sorry for are the ones who don't even know how to reformat and end up buying another computer (yes, I have met people who have done this).
!hoD
This statement is not founded upon facts.
I work in tech support. These days spyware calls are the largest number of calls we get. Let me tell you a sampling of the problems we face:
1. Customer's system is slow, gets loads of popups and shutting it down takes ages.
2. We try starting it up in safe mode after shutting down non-essential services via msconfig. Many times, though not all, mouse and keyboard freeze and we are unable to proceed in that mode. (No I didn't stop MS services)
3. We uninstall all suspicious programs from control panel (after researching and confirming they are indeed malware). Sometimes it takes the crap out, sometimes it just comes back.
4. It is reported that (though I am not sure) that there is a symbiotic relationship between some spyware and trojans. So if you take a spyware out and the trojan is still present, the trojan pulls back the spyware the next time you go online and similarly spyware pulls back trojan if you take trojan out.
5. Some customers lose internet connectivity. Depending upon the savvy-ness of the customer, we may sit from half-an-hour to 2 hours fixing their Winsock - walking them through registry settings, deleting winsock keys, adding TCP/IP protocol, etc.
You can see that by this time, we have spent quite some time with the customer. And this assumes that everything has gone smoothly. However, in real life, what happens is:
"Sir, please click your start button and then click run."
"I can't find Start button. Oh there it is. Now what is it you wanted me to click?"
and so on...
6. Sometimes, spybot and adaware find hundreds of problems/critical objects (as they call them). You fix them. But the system is still slow. There are no popups but performance is still atrocious. What do you tell the customer now?
7. Repair install or restore *does not* fix the problem. Spyware is insidious enough to remain there.
At this point the customer gets very frustrated. He has typically spent several hours on the phone, first with his ISP and then with us spread over a period of several days sometimes.
I would never call such a person lazy!
So at this point he just wants the problem fixed. Throw the PC out the window or reformat. Clearly, reformat is much less painful than going through hours of registry cleanups, reboots, waits, frustration and lost productivity.
Morever, these people aren't stupid, they just don't know about computers. Lack of knowledge of a particular field does not equal stupidity. For example, many of our customers are doctors, economists, journalists, etc. (One was a very nice old lady trying to get her email working so she could email her grandkid serving in Iraq).
Hence it is my considered opinion that to call people stupid or lazy without having more information is incorrect.