PA Sues Online 'University' For Spamming

CousinLarry writes "Online 'university' Trinity Southern University (Google cache of disabled site homepage) has been sued by the state of Pennsylvania." Besides spamming, this self-described school has, as another reader points out, "awarded an MBA to a cat owned by an undercover Pennsylvania deputy attorney general." I bet my cat could get a PhD.

Comments

You insensitive clod

[shoppa]

My cat already has a PhD!

Re:You insensitive clod

[rsidd]

Ah but has your cat published a paper in Physical Review Letters?

More about the second author of that paper (scroll down to "Hetherington and Willard article)

Ralph

[bigtallmofo]

When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University!

Re:Ralph

[TummyX]

My cat's breath smells like cat food

Smart Cat

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one welcome our new feline overlords

Headline

[StevenHenderson]

Did anyone else read this as "Penny Arcade Sues Online 'University' For Spamming?"

Re:Headline

[Emrikol]

Damn, my cat only has an MCSE

Well, almost. He did fail TCP/IP.

Real Victim

[teiresias]

The real victim here is any online College or University that's trying to become a credible institution. With process stories like this few people will want to take the option of online Universitys and even fewer employers will take them seriously.

Re:Real Victim

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, degree mills like this hurt all American universities. I was talking with the head economist of a UK based multinational a while ago, and he throws all American CVs in the bin unless the university is a well known and respected one, simply because he doesn't have time to fuck about checking their accreditation.

Re:Real Victim

[C10H14N2]

Considering how seriously employers take undergrad degrees while simultaneously disregarding their actual worth, in most cases, I really don't see much difference between an actual degree--regardless of where it's from--and one written in crayon on the back of a cocktail napkin. Maybe straight out of college with no experience, sure, but when people have a decade or more of experience, I don't care if you graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard. What you've done in the decade since going to Harvard is far more important to me than your fscking bachelor's degree.

Re:Real Victim

[chialea]

How would you find out easily? Universities are accredited by different organizations. MIT isn't accredited at all, last I heard, under the theory that people already know they're just fine. The reason the organization that accredits UC Berkeley has any clout is that it accredits Berkeley. This doesn't sound that organized to me.

Fake online universities put up all sorts of fake stuff on the web to try to give the impression of legitimacy. I'm not aware of a list of "real" universities to check credentials against, and this tactic implies that a simple google search might not be all that helpful. (Putting up a page saying "this university is fake" doesn't fix the problem; they have tons and tons of names.)

Lea

Re:Real Victim

[magefile]

Universities aren't accredited so much as their programs are. For example, if you want a bioengineering degree that actually means something, you want a school that is "ABET accredited". They do other engineering stuff, too (ABET="Accredition Board for Engineering and Tech." or sth. like that). And they are certified by CHEA (Council for Higher Ed. Accreditation). Given a college name 30 seconds of Googling will find out if they're accredited in a given field, and by whom.

Re:Real Victim

[general_re]

MIT isn't accredited at all, last I heard, under the theory that people already know they're just fine.

MIT is very much accredited. "Everybody knows they're just fine" is not nearly enough to continue in business, not least because neither the federal government nor any state will extend grants or loans to students attending institutions that are not accredited by a recognized governing body. No accreditation = no $$$$, period. Recognized accreditation commissions are organized regionally in the United States - the US Department of Education would probably be the best place to start for a comprehensive list.

The reason the organization that accredits UC Berkeley has any clout is that it accredits Berkeley.

Nope. The reason the organization that accredits UC Berkeley has clout is for the same reason the organization that accredits MIT has clout - without it, the money dries up and the joint either shuts down or converts over to a for-profit trade school.

Re:Real Victim

[shalla]

There are reputable books on colleges. For starters, you could go to Peterson's and look up the name of the college or university.

Also, accrediting bodies are okayed by the US Secretary of Education. For more on that, see http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/index.html.

They had other problems:

[BostonPilot]

They also could not spell:

Perspective students submit a detailed self-evalution for the degree of their choice, BA, BS, MA, MBA, or PhD. A TSU registrar will evaluate your application within 5-7 days and contact you via email with the results of their evaluation.

Why is anyone surprised???

[Joey Vegetables]

From the article:

Besides spamming, this self-described school has, as another reader points out, "awarded an MBA to a cat owned by an undercover Pennsylvania deputy attorney general."

Thereby reducing the average IQ of cats, while greatly increasing that of MBAs.

Re:Why is anyone surprised???

[tootlemonde]

Thereby reducing the average IQ of cats, while greatly increasing that of MBAs.

The poster is alluding to a quote by Mark Twain:

If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat.
- Notebook, 1894

More Twain quotes on cats here.

What happens when you don't force accreditation

[Nine Tenths of The W]

I'll take Britain's godless socialised education every day over educational free market capitalism. Employers shouldn't have to waste time determining whether a university is real or not. This is just as disruptive as the fear of litigation that prevents people giving bad references

Re:What happens when you don't force accreditation

[will_die]

It is not really a problem. Thier are several well known accreditation boards which are accepted. The boards range in accrediting the whole school to ones that accredit just a degree.
As for employees most don't worry about it. Thier is a set of books which they use, they look up the school and can check who it is a accedited by and dates. The human resource department does this, at the same time it is verifing that the person actually graduated.

Re:What happens when you don't force accreditation

[dAzED1]

sure, it can usually find a solution...one that costs the pleebs what little money they have.

Does what you're proposing sound *efficient* to you? Who do you think would pay for that certification? The student who becomes a worker. Why? because either the school pays for it directly (which filters down, with a surcharge, to the student), the student pays for it directly, or the employer pays for it directly (which filters down, in the form of it costing more to hire the student, thus the student is worth less pay).

OR...and this is just an idea...the inefficient "free market" BS can be muzzled a little by having places that call themselves "universities" slammed and their owners put in prison.

Want to see the economy do well? Improve *efficiency*. There's a reason the worker production figures are so important, you know.

Re:What happens when you don't force accreditation

[Albanach]

In a "Godless socialised education" system, there's no incentive to succeed whatsoever. When public schools do bad, they just get more money, and their "customers" have no choice. They are forced to go to them. Monopolies are bad, especially when the Government has them.

With your great education have you even looked at education beyond your own borders? Do you think other governments aren't capable of recognising the place for rewarding success? Do you think governments are incapable of intervening when they see failure?

In the UK there's no obligation to go to your local school, you can pick any as long as you have the grades to get accepted - and others in Europe can pick one of our universities too. Yet in the US if you don't have the necessary cash you may well be forced to stay in state and go to a local school rather than explore the best that should be available to your academic ability.

I would still take a mediocre private education over the best our Government can offer, thanks.

Ever head of Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Glasgow, Edinburgh? If your government can't offer better perhaps it's time you elect a new government? Free market education determines that access is based as much on wealth as it is on academic ability. That's plain wrong.

Re:What happens when you don't force accreditation

[dAzED1]

you don't get it.

It harms the reputation of ALL online schools, and American schools in general. If a person is born poor, and works his ass off to go to a good school that he can afford...one that isn't well known...then that school is much more likely to be dismissed as worthless by a prospective employer now.

The point isn't that the people who started this online "school" might (since its only "might") go to prison, the point is that the damage is already done, and for every one of these you remove, another dozen will have found a loophole in the unrestrainted market and will be doing the same thing again. A cat got a degree? Ok, so the next fake online school will simply have you verify age, and species. Maybe take a test that any 4th grader could pass, and give you a "MBA" if you pass it. Tada.

The damage is still done. Maybe not to those who can afford to go to internationally reknown Ivy league schools...but not everyone can afford to go to those. There is a happy medium between complete government control, and none at all.

Re:What happens when you don't force accreditation

[CaptainZapp]

In a "Godless socialised education" system, there's no incentive to succeed whatsoever. When public schools do bad, they just get more money, and their "customers" have no choice. They are forced to go to them. Monopolies are bad, especially when the Government has them.

Well, the most recent PISA study pretty much debunks your argument.

While the godless, pinko, commie, socialist, anti-american, linux-using Finns with their wicked socialist public school system came ahead just of about everybody, students from the free enterprise, privatized great nation of the US of A didn't look too well.

Get a clue!

Re:What happens when you don't force accreditation

[gowen]

Tell your facts to shut up, they're contradicting my dogma. America is number one at everything, and any statistics that show otherwise are clearly flawed.

Sheesh.

Better mirror

[Zen Punk]

Has Timothy(or the submitter) never heard of The Internet Archive?

You can actually look at the pictures, too.

I don't understand

[Icarus1919]

I really don't understand the furor over this. It wouldn't be the first college degree mill out there, and it certainly won't be the last. The only one whom people who get this sort of degree are cheating is themselves. I mean, sure, at first it may seem like they are cheating employers that take this sort of thing at face value, but it'll be pretty obvious once they start fucking up their job royally because they don't know what they're doing.

Re:I don't understand

[Lumpy]

I am not condoning degree mills but what you say is certainly not always right.

there is a guy that used to work here that did get his MBA from a degree mill... he paid $1500.00 for it and had it in 12 days.

he used it to get into this place, HR is typically stupid and will only hire people with degrees, he had over 20 years of experience in his field but no degree, hell he was better than the MBA's here.

over the 5 years I worked with him we became friends and he confided in me this fact.

he left here over a year ago because he saw the bull crap that management was pulling. He now works as a department manager in a competing company, making more money and has been commended twice with awards there already.

sorry, but my friend that bought his fake degree to get around cooperate HR stupidity.

and I am sure that many people do that more and more.

I do not condone it, I believe that you need to be forced to waste 4 years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars just like I did so you can gain that piece of paper that really does not way anything about your abilities.

Re:I don't understand

[Feanturi]

I've been getting these diploma spam emails for almost as long as there has been spam, and it always struck me as fraud and made me wonder why they weren't being arrested. You're not just cheating yourself, you get cheated as well, and for money. That's fraud, as it devalues the real thing, and fleeces the ignorant. It's about time someone started getting in trouble for it, only took like 11 years or so.

Re:I don't understand

[poot_rootbeer]

The only one whom people who get this sort of degree are cheating is themselves.

As well as legitimate degree-holders from any school whose name isn't deeply ingrained in the public consciouness as legitimate. Sure, everyone knows a degree from "the University of Pennsylvania" is legit. But what about "Pennsylvania Polytechnical College"? Or "Pennsylvania Institute of Technology"? Hint: I made up one of the latter two.

it'll be pretty obvious once they start fucking up their job royally because they don't know what they're doing.

The Peter Principle applies. They may never find themselves in a position where their fraudulence is exposed. Meanwhile, they coast by, collecting a paycheck while better employees struggle to pay back their student loans.

uce@ftc.gov

[Dachannien]

Like most people, I get way too much spam to forward every single piece to the FTC. But I *do* make it a point, whenever a piece of spam for fraudulent university degrees makes it past my filters, to send those e-mails along.

I wouldn't mind so much if:

* Getting a college degree at any level weren't so much work
* Getting a college degree at any level didn't cost so much
* There weren't so many underprivileged highly intelligent people who never get college degrees because they can't afford it or are under the impression that they can't get financial aid

Re:uce@ftc.gov

[xtracto]

Well that's the problem of living in a country where the education is kind of private, in other countries (like Mexico) high education does not cost that much so everyone can afford it.

Cat with an MBA

[Nine Tenths of The W]

Let's see, cats:
Expect everyone else to do the hard work
Fuck things up and cause damage through boredom
Demand the best of everything without being willing to work for it
Boss people around
Fly into fits of rage
Have short attention spans
Spend 21 hours a day resting

Is there any reason a cat shouldn't have an MBA?

Dr. Katz

[cj_goth]

I bet my cat could get a PhD

Well, as per the article, if your cat has a spare $499 it's his. Unless the PA DA gets to the "online university" first. Mind you, $499 buys a lot of tuna steak ...

You can almost hear Alton Poe, the Vice Chancellor, kicking himself for awarding that degree ... "I had a really bad feline about that applicant..."

Not all distance learning is a scam

[The Mutant]

There is an active on-line community at DegreeInfo.com who research and discuss the merits of each institution.

Here in the UK The Open University has been providing fully accredited distance learning since the early 70's.

I went to a brick and mortar Uni myself, but have worked with several graduates of such institutions, both in the banking and academic worlds (I'm a banker and part time visiting lecturer at a local Uni), and they were fine; like most things, you get out of it what you put into it.

Re:Not all distance learning is a scam

[Gruuk]

I've read about The Open University; in fact, in the early 70s, its success served as the inspiration for the Tele-Universite (text in french), which started to offer distance-learning classes in 1974. Since it was a part of the "Universite du Quebec", it was fully accredited from the start. Now, they offer well over 300 different classes in 65 different programs, most of which geared towards working adults studying part-time.

Without it, I wouldn't have been able to go back to school and earn a degree ; I'm still taking classes to earn another, higher one. At only about 250CAD per 3 credit class (you need 90 credits if you want a bachelor's degree, for example), including books and fees, it's affordable enough for me, especially since I can deduct all my tuition fees on my income tax form.

You TRULY insensitive clod!

[Anonymous Meoward]

I really am pursuing an MBA!
-- Anonymous Meoward

Re:damnit!

[Ford Prefect]

Come to think of it - how come my cat isn't smart enough to get a degree?

Interestingly, your cat does have moderation points on Slashdot!

New name

[Israfels]

That's DR. Socks to you buddy!

SCO, RIAA, and the MPAA may be in trouble.
We found the source of the lawyers!

Our Village Hall Needs that Cat!

[ej0c]

Amazingly, the Village Council hired a member's son-in-law as village administrator. His credentials (completely unchecked, of course) included just such a fine degree. He would step into the middle of a complete downtown rennovation project.

Three years later, he has returned to Arkansas (thankfully!), but has taken with him $45,000 in severance pay. His computer remains at the state Bureau of Criminal Investigation, the rumor being it may contain child porn.

And the Village has a new $100k street sweeper no one wanted. Meanwhile the police department mucks through on 25Mhz Pentium I desktops.

The Administrator position is open. We can pay the cat well.

You forgot some victims...

[Libertarian_Geek]

All those cats that put forth the effort and hard work to earn their PHDs.

Heh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone with a brain should have read "fraud" from every bit of this. Their website has a web page (thanks to Zen Punk for the archive.org link) about their "accreditation". It's full of buzzwords, and says that they've been accredited by the "National Association of Prior Learning Assessment Colleges". Oddly enough, a Google search for this only produces the page in question, a link to a message board saying that this "university" has been spammed heavily - and a website for the supposed association, which is now off-line. Thankfully, the Way-Back Machine never forgets. Same buzzword bingo on that page, no contact information other than an e-mail address. How anyone could conceivably look at these websites and decide that this was legit is beyond me. Ah, well. They'll get what they deserve.
N.B. There's also a CNN article about this as well, which seems to be a carbon copy of the local story linked in the blurb.

Well, if Dubya could get one...

[Frantactical Fruke]

...an MBA shouldn't be too hard for the average cat, either.

And I wish this to be moderated as '-1: D'uh!'
Thank you.

Gillian Mckeith

[lxt]

I believe that Guardian Newspaper ran a small campaign a few months back in their science section about "Dr" Gillian McKeith, the author of "You Are What you Eat", a number 1 book and popular TV programme over here in the UK. It turned out she'd actually got her doctorate from an online institution (it may even have been Trinity Southern, I forget the name) - either way, it was "accredited" by the same bogus board as Trinity Southern (and if you've read her book, it's pretty obvious she has no clue what she's talking about - chlorophyll is apparantly "high in oxygen", and "the 'blood' of the plant will really oxygenate your blood." when you eat it...depite the fact there's no light in your gut...).

The Guardian's point was that millions of people were buying this book under the impression she was an accredited doctor, when in fact she was nothing of the sort. However good her advice may have been, she was still misleading the public over her credentials... see http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/badscience/story/0, 12980,1285600,00.html

In a similar theme, the journalist in question got his cat a "nutrationalist specialist" certificate...

Re:Which is smarter?

[Lev13than]

This university could answer an old question.
Which is smarter, cats or dogs?

Well, the cat earned an MBA so I'm putting my money on dogs.

Depends on what you expect from one

[Moraelin]

In the end, it's not really whether the cat or the dog is smart, it's whether it does what you expect from a pet. That's usually (A) what people mistake for "intelligence" and also (B) what motivates them into grasping at straws for "proof" that their favourite pet is smart.

Some people seem to like the unconditional obedience of an animal hard-coded to obey the pack leader. Even if the "pack leader" is a human.

In that case it's "Bowser is soo smart. He comes here when I call him!" And typically also "bah, cats are dumb/evil/etc because they can't be bothered to obey."

Some of us, on the other hand, have no need for basically a biological Tamagochi hard-wired to obey.

We like a cat precisely _because_ it's independent and doesn't need a "master". Cats are not pack animals, so they really have neither a "master", nor "servants" or "staff". You may be a cat's room mate, or friend, or a danger to be avoided, or (in rare cases) even an enemy. Either way, you can know that it's the cat's genuine assessment of you, and not some hard-wired reflex kicking in.

So we tend to generalize and anthropomorphise the other way around. "Yay, Fluffy is so smart because she can think for herself and doesn't need a master." And conversely "Dogs are complete retards for _needing_ to be someone's slave."

In reality, both points of view are false and based on false premises.

An animal's intelligence is what helps it stay alive in its natural environment, _not_ how well it fits your emotional need. In that aspect, both felines and dogs/wolves are "smart", just in different ways.

Wolves have perfected survival by hunting larger prey in packs, so teamwork and having a pack leader is essential. A lone wolf can't kill, say, a deer, so acting as a pack is what their very survival depends on. So for the pack to work, the animals are basically hard-wired to follow and obey the leader. It's a survival trait.

Felines on the other hand, with some exceptions (e.g., lions), live on prey they can kill one-on-one. Not only they don't need a pack to hunt, and not only there isn't enough meat on their prey to feed a whole pack, but a pack would also get in the way of stealth. If you've watched a cat hunt a mouse, you've noticed that it relies on not being seen until it gets within relatively short range. Trying to do that as a whole pack of cats, would just dramatically increase the chances of being detected early.

Hence, for cats the survival trait was to _not_ follow someone else.

Both approaches work, so they're both intelligent.

Re:Depends on what you expect from one

[FatBear]

I am in about 98% agreement with you. In fact, most cats will obey, if trained to do so. My cat will obey most reasonable requests, but only after considering it and the reward, first. Thus, he obeys and retains his independence at the same time.

New bumper sticker...

[csoto]

"My cat is an honors student at Trinity Southern University."

obligatory smart-ass kid joke

[MyDixieWrecked]

A first-grade teacher, Ms. Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, "Harry, what's your problem?"

Harry answered, "I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!"

Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office.

While Harry waited in the outer office, the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was. The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.

Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.

Principal: "What is 3 x 3?"

Harry: "9".

Principal: "What is 6 x 6?"

Harry: "36".

And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.

The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, "I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade."

Ms. Brooks says to the principal, "Let me ask him some questions."

The principal and Harry both agreed.

Ms. Brooks asks, "What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?"

Harry, after a moment: "Legs."

Ms. Brooks: "What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?"

The principal wondered, why would she ask such a question!

Harry replied: "Pockets."

Ms. Brooks: "What does a dog do that a man steps into?"

Harry: "Pants"

Ms. Brooks: What's starts with a C, ends with a T, is hairy, oval, delicious and contains thin, whitish liquid?

Harry: "Coconut."

The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.

Ms. Brooks: "What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?"

The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer.

Harry: "Bubble gum"

Ms. Brooks: "What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?"

Harry: "Shake hands."

The principal was trembling.

Ms. Brooks: "What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?"

Harry: "Firetruck"

The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, "Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven question wrong.