Photos and Commentary On AMD's PIC

vincecate writes "I just purchased a brand new AMD PIC which has been on Slashdot and LinuxDevices. I have opened it up and put some pictures and comments on the web. Some interesting things are that the system uses only 8 watts, the Windows CE does not want you installing any software, you can not get to the BIOS settings, and I was not able to boot Linux." (He was able, though, to boot Linux from an IDE device on a mini-ITX system also based on the Geode processor.)

Comments

Put ReactOS on it.

[isolation]

seeing as it has limited hardware or software support under Windows CE if they must have a Windows-like OS then we could get ReactOS running on it.

Re:Put ReactOS on it.

[stupidfoo]

One would question why they went with Windows CE. Microsoft must have given them an amazing price otherwise it simply would have eaten up too much of the $195. I'm guessing MS is selling them copies at less than $5 a pop, but who know.

Wouldn't this truly be something much better suited to use Linux or some other freely available OS?

I'll answer my own question (as it is obvious): Yes.

how about a useful link...

[Lumpy]

Like where to buy one?

I would certianly like to get one to tinker with and make do things that are against the wishes of the manufacturer.

"It doesn't work!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe if he would expand on why Linux doesn't boot we might have a better chance of helping. Just saying "I connected the CompactFlash card via. an IDE->CF adaptor but Linux wouldn't boot. Please tell me why." isn't any help.

Reason why you can't fiddle with it

[magarity]

Look at the target market kids; some village in inner Mongolia or northeastern India saves up to buy a computer with the help of a government grant. The first thing that happens is someone accidentally screws up the BIOS settings or downloads and installs some flakey software. Wanna guess how easy it is to get a tech out to fix it? Be serious and stop your whining about WinCE and no BIOS access. It obviously isn't for you. The thing's capabilitis in terms of software/firmware were very carefully considered in light of its target demographic.

Re:Reason why you can't fiddle with it

[WARM3CH]

I agree. The design goals of this device is clearly are: Providing minimum requirments to access and browse the net, and do basic word processing and that's all! It should not require any service, patches for a long time. Many slashdotters many nor realize that design of such a system is quite different from normal PCs and is a completely different beast. You need a system to do something very basic, only do this job and do it right with no future need for any chagnes. This is logical to lock it in a way that making any changes to it be very difficult. Not only to protect it from the users, but also from all unknown possible future threats on the net. You can imagine millions of such simple machines round the world and far from any service center can be a very good target for spammers, black-hats and anyone who needs a hord of zobie machines. How would you design such a thing if you needed to do it with such a tight price limit?

flash drives and longevity

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

I remember several years ago I was boasting about running some of my servers from Flash IDE drives, and I immediately was blasted with comments like: "yes, but you can only write to the Flash disk so many times before it fails". Any comments on that? Was that ever the case, and if so, is it still the case?

Re:Boot problem

[Anonymous Coward]

It could also be a BIOS issue. Maybe the bootloader or the kernel is trying to call a BIOS function (E.g. the 13h functions or e820) which is not implemented? However I'd agree that the disk layout or MBR signature is the most likely candidate. If I were him I'd hook that drive up to another system and check the partition layout and a hex dump of the MBR to see if this device is using any little tricks.

This would make a GREAT car computer

[TheUnFounded]

I'm planning my Senior design for next year, and it looks like its gonna involve a computer in a car (I know, original, eh?). The problem was going to be selecting the parts that'd be cheap enough and portable enough.

This would be IDEAL; basically a hopped-up PDA with a regular full screen interface available. BUT: I don't want to run CE!! I know the poster hasn't been able to, but if anyone knows of a hack that has managed to put Linux on this beastie, please post!!

Why no Linux?

[ajs318]

I'm highly disappointed that AMD isn't offering a Linux-based version, especially as there is no good reason not to -- Linux already can do everything this device is supposed to be able to do.

This is merely more evidence supporting my theory that Microsoft are paying companies sizeable -- and very illegal -- cash bribes to actively not support other operating systems.

Re:Why no Linux?

[dave420]

Because no-one will support a linux install on the box, most likely.

They use Windows because Microsoft will support the installations. They will custom-write a version of their own OS, and ensure it's as hardened as possible. Who's going to do that for a linux port? Which company is going to write the "encrypted handshake" software for Linux? Exactly. With no central "linux" organisation, no-one can do this work.

Don't be disappointed with AMD - these boxes aren't for you. You're already on the internet, so that's obvious. These boxes are for remote areas where there is no tech support. If someone's linux box goes tits up because the 14-year-old Finnish kid who wrote the distro they picked made some mistake, no-one will be able to get to it, and the owners will have no idea what to do.

So, basically, they chose MS because they could get closer to what they needed.

*Limited* Windows CE included!

[Woogiemonger]

Umm, Microsoft had to dig, but they managed to find the next step down. They're providing a limited version of Windows CE for this $185 PC that's even beyond your average crippleware. It has a MAX of 800x600 resolution (shouldn't that be left up to the video card?) AND you can open a maximum of *3* Windows. Why let them open 3? You can keep Windows pluralized with only 2!

Re:*Limited* Windows CE included!

[dave420]

The fewer the features, the less can go wrong. These boxes are supposed to be zero-maintainance. As in, someone buys one, they never EVER need to get fixed.

These computers aren't for you. They're not for anyone you know. They're probably not for anyone in your country.

They're for people who make just over $1,000 A YEAR (not week).

If they put linux on there, it would need a larger storage device and technical support. That's why it's not on there.

Windup power supply?

[Ironsides]

Considering that companies make Windup radios and flashlights I wonder if they could make a similar generator for the AMD PIC. Given, that the monitor would require more power, but the windup might supply enough wattage for the PC itself.

Re:Geez...

[Vo0k]

Yep. Putting things simply, it's a crippled Microsoft demo almost-giveaway product.

They use it to show Windows and MS products. People CAN'T use it for anything else. This way if they want more, they need to pay real money and next time they buy something "bigger" they certainly won't get any fancy "linux" or "Mac", because they know Windows already.

Remember, the first one is free.

It's the software, stupid...

[martin-k]

*I* find the software on the PIC much more interesting than the hardware. But that's maybe because we wrote it... :-)

See English or Portuguese article about the SoftMaker apps on AMD's PIC.

Re:A review of the device?

[Anonymous Coward]

PIC installed software

Games (Black Jack, Chess, Freecell, Minesweeper, Missile, Solitaire, Taipei

ADSL Setup
Chat Messenger
E-mail Client - V???
Image Viewer - ClearVue Image v2.4.383b
Internet Explorer - V???
Media Player - Windows Media 9 Series
Modem Dialer Setup
Plan Maker 2004 rev 275 (like Excel)
Text maker 2003 rev 401 (like Word

Here is a Plan Maker summary
http://discuss.pocketnow.com/printthread. php?threa did=15269

Plan Maker and Text Maker created by
http://www.softmaker.de/index_en.htm

Re:Paperweight.

[dave420]

BECAUSE IT'S NOT FOR YOU

It's for poor people who can't afford to get online. People who make $1,000-$6,000 PER YEAR. They are people who don't care about linux, who don't want to install p2p, who don't want 17 different media players for their downloaded simpsons.

This PC is not for you, so the fact you don't like it means absolutely zero.

You moaning about it is like if you went to a soup kitchen, moved some starving people out of the way, tried the soup and proclaimed very loudly "This soup tastes like shit! I'm off to a fancy restaurant for a steak!". You don't see the point, as you can afford something better. Not everyone can. Count yourself lucky, don't put down their only option.

Re:Geez...

[Catbeller]

"The whole idea is to allow poor people to get on the internet."

Well, then it is highly illogical to use Windows, no? Linux and OpenOffice are both "free", as in: not costing money.

AMD doesn't need MS for this at all. The price of the box would be much cheaper without Redmond's contribution.

So why? Because they want to give MS a bone. MS likes bones, and if you don't feed them the occasional femur, they start thinking that meat would taste better. The meat of your still-beating heart, freshly ripped from your chest during the hostile takeover, or during the utter destruction of your business model.

Trying to get localized Linux on it

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of the volunteers of the Indian Linux Project, along with team members of a few other South Asian Linux localization projects are trying to get Linux running on a low cost Geode based system. Join the indlinux-group mailing list if you are interested in helping out. The latest Indlinux Newsletter mentions this effort briefly.

AMD is already exploring PIC Linux

[taj]

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:06:53 -0600
From: "Hale, Brad"
To: Trent Jarvi
Subject: RE: PIC Linux

Trent, thanks for your interest in AMD's PIC. We have not entered an
exclusive agreement with Microsoft and are currently working with a number of
Linux developers for future support. Please check back on AMD's web site for
future announcements regarding Linux support.

Regards,

Brad Hale
Business Development
Value Platforms
Advanced Micro Devices
(XXX) XXXX-XXXX

-----Original Message----- ...

Linux running on this device

[anonymous123]

The company Linspire is working with AMD and they have linspire already working on this device. AMD made a special version with the bios enabled for usb cdrom boot support. I hear that Linspire is going to be shipping these computers for $150 all over the world. Finally linux hits the mass market and thank god it is linspire.

Re:Paperweight.

[ParnBR]

I make $5,000 per year. Not too shabby, considering I am a public worker in Brazilian education area. =) I'm a bit skeptic about the unit's cost here, since imported goods (especially computer-related) are heavily taxed in Brazil. My income makes me a probable target for the PIC, although I already have a fair computer (which I painstakingly bought with months of savings).

Although I already have a PC, I'd like to sink my teeth in one of these. If I could install Linux in it, it would be the ideal test bed for all sorts of crazy stuff I have in mind; since I can only afford one computer, I can't do most of this stuff in my main computer (and things like VMWare are off-limits to me, because they aren't the fastest thing around and require a lot of memory and storage I can't spare).

But then, I'm just a relatively poor geek. This product wasn't made for me. I can only dream if it were... =)

Re:PIC?

[Garak]

Depends on the application, for electronics and engineering PIC's and 68HC11's are where its at. Its all about the timer interrups.