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Warzone 2100 Source Liberated

Posted by Zonk on from the gaming-goes-gnu dept.

jvm writes "The former game developer Pumpkin Studios has released the source for their 3D real-time strategy game Warzone 2100 under the GNU General Public License. (Direct link to the source archive.) Previously released just for Microsoft Windows and Sony PlayStation, this source release permits this 1999 game to be ported to other platforms, such at GNU/Linux and MacOS. You can join in the developer discussion at the RealTimeStrategies Warzone 2100 Redevelopment Project forum. Note that only the source has been released; an original copy of the game is required to obtain the other parts of the game (graphics, sounds, etc.)"

67 comments

  1. Very Underrated Game by TychoCelchuuu · · Score: 5, Informative

    This was an amazing game that didn't get enough attention. It was one of the first full 3d real time strategy games; you could control the camera to any degree you wanted. You could make your own units, balancing against what threats you wished to. I was sorry to see it didn't get a bigger following; maybe this will help it.

    --
    Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.
    1. Re:Very Underrated Game by rcs1000 · · Score: 1

      Completely agree. I loved this game, it had tonnes of features that modern RTS games copied, yet Eidos marketed it so poorly it hardly sold at all. Shocking.

      --
      --- My dad's political betting
    2. Re:Very Underrated Game by LincolnQ · · Score: 1

      It had a sweet tech tree too... incredibly deep; even after playing the game many times I still didn't remember how to get those sweet uber powerful laser cannons, whatever they were called. :)

      As soon as this gets ported to Mac OS X I'm gonna try and dig out my old CD and see if I can play. I'm excited...

    3. Re:Very Underrated Game by dazlari · · Score: 1

      I love this game - it rocks - it still rocks!! I even own more than one copy just in case I need to give it to someone or the house burns down. I have -wasted- hours playing this networked and I am yet to find a match for it's playability. You cant play it on late PCs, so I'm keeping the PII around just for this game. Go N.E.W.S.T!

    4. Re:Very Underrated Game by m50d · · Score: 1

      1999 also saw the release of Homeworld, also one of the first fully 3d real time strategy games, which was also (fairly) recently released as source although not under gpl. There's now a working port at http://www.thereisnospork.com/projects/homeworld/. It's really very very good, and the game's available for £5 most places. If you haven't played it, do.

      --
      I am trolling
  2. Should have included this in the original post by jvmatthe · · Score: 5, Informative
    I'm the submitter, and I left this out. Sorry:

    List of mirrors, please don't link to individual archives!

    Also, I should have clarified that the source and some game assets are included, but music and FMV are missing. Whether the game would work without these, I don't know yet. Sorry.

    --
    Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
    1. Re:Should have included this in the original post by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      IS there some information on the missing music and FMV, and their formats? If such is available it should be only a very short time until we see replacements (of some level of quality) available.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Should have included this in the original post by AndroidCat · · Score: 1
      an original copy of the game is required to obtain the other parts of the game (graphics, sounds, etc.)

      How easy is it to find a copy to buy? I usually buy games a year or two behind the wave, but I think that five years might be pushing it even for the $5 Bargoon Bin places.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  3. Slightly offtopic by Quill_28 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Are there any rts games that put intelligence in the units?

    I know certain ones have improved using auto exploring or workers that find work to do, but so many units in thee games would be great except they need hand holding.

    For instance the spy in RON, you should be able to tell it find city and spy on the buildings, or patrol this area when a units move through convert on of them and then run away!

    Or the queen in starcraft, you should be able to tell the queen to fly around looking for the enemy and parasite them or use the brooding attack, go to home base when energy gets low.

    In one player you can constanly pause, but this kind of takes away the real-time, and you can't pause in multiplayer.

    Are there any rts games that allow scripts for each unit?

    1. Re:Slightly offtopic by TychoCelchuuu · · Score: 1

      Do it all yourself :D Dark Reign had stuff vaguely similar to this, although nothing in depth like you are talking about.

      --
      Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.
    2. Re:Slightly offtopic by escher · · Score: 1

      Do it all yourself

      A friend of mine and I are designing an RTS that has all the features we want. It's a hell of an undertaking but I hope that we at least get the basic ideas coded.

    3. Re:Slightly offtopic by Pxtl · · Score: 1

      Total Annihilation was pretty good for that - thought the units were a little stupider than you'd like, they made up for it by being simple (no worrying about spells) and having long graphical itineraries (you could see their patrol route onscreen). By default, any unit on patrol would do intelligent things while out there, and any unit guarding another unit would automatically do intelligent things for its target (aid in construction, repair target, attack target's foes, etc).

    4. Re:Slightly offtopic by Cecil · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The units in Total Annihilation were pretty smart on their own. They weren't foolproof, but you could set their movement style to roam, put them on patrol, and they would happily cruise around the map obliterating anything they could find. They had no concept of formation or cover, unfortunately, but flying units damaged on patrol would at least seek out a repair pad to fix themselved before returning to their patrol routes.

      A lot of the 'intelligence' had to do with giving them simple automatic behaviors that would've required intense micromanagement for a player to do. For example, Solar Collectors would automatically close their panels to prevent damage if an enemy started firing on them. If a defensive battery was fired upon, it could back-calculate the trajectory and return fire automatically, even if the enemy was outside of visual range (provided it was within firing range, obviously). A construction unit on patrol would focus on repairing other units, unless you were very low on metal or energy, in which case it would instead try to recover the metal or energy left over in wreckage or rocks or trees or whatever is available.

      Like you suggest, the units and buildings did each have an individual script, but I don't think it's quite the same as what you're asking for, as it was only accessible by editing the data files. Besides, the process of writing one is arcane and not very well understood.

      But TA was still a fantastic game.

      --
      Random and weird software I've written.
    5. Re:Slightly offtopic by UltraJustin · · Score: 1

      Earth 2150 had alot of automation options. You could even write your own scripts for your units, but I never tried to.

    6. Re:Slightly offtopic by Lando · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not really the same thing they are talking about. The units in Dark Reign did not automatically do things other than trying to run from being underfire and shooting at things that came into their range.

      However, that said, Dark Reign had one of the best opposing AI's in any game that I have seen so far. It tracked where enemy forces were and allocated it's defense based on that information.

      It was also highly configurable. Easy to write scripts and change variables for each unit. Unfortunately Activision didn't market the game well, I think from the numbers I saw they only sold 35K units of the game.

      Pet Peeve: I hate the way new strategy games are 3D, Total Annihlation, C&C, Dune 2000, Dark Reign were all 2D games and worked well. Now it seems that unless you buy a $200 3D video card your screwed as to what type of games you can get... Sigh

      --
      /* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
    7. Re:Slightly offtopic by Severious · · Score: 1

      I thought Total Annihlation was a 3D game, it may not have required a fancy videocard but I am pretty sure it was 3D.

      Could be wrong.
      It was still a great game, I think I have my copy still.

      --
      Tinfoil hat? Naa, I long since replaced it with a reinforced titanium alloy.
    8. Re:Slightly offtopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it used 3D units on a 2D map that gave the illusion of being 3D, or something like that. Regardless, it wasn't a fully 3D game.

    9. Re:Slightly offtopic by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1
      Are there any rts games that put intelligence in the units?
      Honestly, I doubt it. The prerequisites for even basic intellegence aren't met in most games.

      Total Annihilation got it right a bit by having engagement orders and movement tolerance orders. TA had problems with this - for example, if you had a boat try to attack an underwater metal extrator, it wouldn't fire at all (unless you typed "+shootall"). In addition, the TA units are relativly simple - if you start including spells in auto-cast or auto-attack, then things might get a little interesting. However, Warcraft 3 demonstrated that auto-cast does work with spells (other than the Necromancer's Raise Dead spell - it auto-casts outside of combat, wasting valuable mana.)

      Once you have auto-attack implementation, you then need auto-retreat. Warzone 2100 implements this (but doesn't include retreating upon first hit as in Dark Reign 2). A retreat by itself isn't good enough - you also need to include an option to allow units to ignore other orders until they are repaired. Warzone 2100 flubbed this a bit since it deselects the damaged unit - wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that it always deselects the unit even if it's the only selection.

      Along with these two features, you need to give smart commands. For example, if you select all combat units across the map (either they scattered or are newly built reinforcements) and order them to attack a given target, you don't want half the group to stop wherever they may be as soon as the target is destroyed - you either want the group to engage other nearby targets or form up at a given rally point. (Tiberian Sun Does this, along with Red Alert 2. Mysteriously, this feature disappeared in C&C:Generals.)

      And finally, you need basic fighting tactics. For example, AT soldiers shouldn't be wasting their ammo on an incoming soldier when they could be taking out the T80 that's about to crush them. (Unless there's a good reason, such as another AT solder fired the "final" shot about to connect.)

      Implementing all these four requirements are the abolute minimum for true playability of an RTS game. However, these could be deceptivly simple - the last requirement in question can cause the game to slow down significantly if unoptimized.

      Are there any rts games that allow scripts for each unit?
      Earth 2150 allows giving units a battle script (Basic, Advanced, and a few specialist units). WBC2 and WBC3 allows units to be given a standing orders with different effects. (e.g. rampage, Scout, etc.)

      While both of these games allows users to create their own unit AI scripts, I'm not putting my full support behind them until they come with a reference manual and compiler telling the users how to customize the AI.
    10. Re:Slightly offtopic by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1
      I thought Total Annihlation was a 3D game, it may not have required a fancy videocard but I am pretty sure it was 3D.
      Total Annihilation is basically a 2D game. While there was implementation of altitude, and that the unit models were 3D models, the map was a 2D enviroment with tiles contiaining picutres and height information. IIRC, there was also either limited no perspective done in the rendering.

      The same applied to TA:K, even though it allowed support for a 3D-Accellerator for better graphic quality.
    11. Re:Slightly offtopic by Quill_28 · · Score: 1

      That's a great idea.

      If I had time and could program well maybe I would.

      Or you could just let me have some input in your game? :)

    12. Re:Slightly offtopic by dustman · · Score: 1

      If a defensive battery was fired upon, it could back-calculate the trajectory and return fire automatically, even if the enemy was outside of visual range (provided it was within firing range, obviously).

      I was very heavily into TA. Back when Kali and TEN were the only two real TA communities, I occasionally held #1 on the ladder. My "real" rank would be more like 3-5.

      The thing you are talking about, firing back at the unit, was a hole in TA's "ai". It didn't "backtrack" and hit the spot at which the attack came from, it locked onto the unit that damaged it, and would track the unit indefinitely.

      The individual units in TA had no concept of line of sight. You could target a big bertha (very long range, powerful, but slow firing artillery cannon) on the enemy commander if you flew some peepers over his base and spotted him. Then, the bertha would keep firing over and over, until the commander was dead, no matter where he went (even though you no longer had line of sight on him). This was particularly useful with the big bertha, because bertha's were not super-accurate, they would often miss by a substantial margin, so not only was the commander in danger, but anything he was near as well, so he couldn't really help constructions yards build or anything.

      One of my favorite tricks was using peepers to locate the enemy commander. When I saw him, I would have a group of several defenders (the anti-air missile launchers) ready to target on the commander. Now, although the enemy commander was usually out of range of course, this collection of defenders (bound to a hotkey) would always be pointing directly at him. This way, I could triangulate his position when the nukes or big berthas were ready.

    13. Re:Slightly offtopic by MBraynard · · Score: 1

      In Warzone 2100, as units gained experience they would fight better. You could set them to return for repairs when damaged. You could also recycle the intelligent veteran units into upgraded units. Awesome game.

    14. Re:Slightly offtopic by kwalker · · Score: 1

      Total Annihilation had something similar. By holding down the shift key, you could queue up a bunch of commands for a unit to do, and the unit would do them until they were done or it was destroyed. You could even make one of those commands a patrol command (complete with waypoints), and it would run the patrol. I used it extensively. Autmated sweeps of the map to wipe out raiding parties, explore terrain, build units and structures, etc. It was great. If I had the skills, I would clone TA for Linux since Atari seems content to just shove it under their couch.

      --
      ... And so it comes to this.
    15. Re:Slightly offtopic by LardBrattish · · Score: 1

      Total Annihilation allowed you to put builders on a patrol route & they would complete buildings, scavenge metal & repar units automagically. The unit AI was pretty good as I recall.

      Dark Reign IIRC (it's been a few years since I played it) had programmable options for each unit.

      What I'd like is an RTS where you could write short programs for each unit's AI. The programs could be modified in between games and would persist in each machine.

      That way the game would be a double challenge. Write the optimal AI routines for your units & then actually playing the game itself. Obviously AI routines would come as standard & could be traded via websites but that game would be a KILLER IMHO.

      I'd love to have a copy of TA where you can write individual AI routines for unit types...

      --
      What are you listening to? (http://megamanic.blogetery.com/)
    16. Re:Slightly offtopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Are there any rts games that allow scripts for each unit?

      Um, the game I wrote is sort of like that.

      http://galaxyhack.sourceforge.net

  4. Yeah yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice looking game, I never heard of it before though. Anyhow, I'm of too download the source now. btw, anyone know when the Quake 3 source is due?????????? anyone???

  5. Re:abuses of the mod system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the point of this sig was irony.

  6. Re:Wow this is great by shufler · · Score: 1

    Uhh... DOOM and Quake anyone?

    The source for DOOM was released years after it was released, and there is a thriving community based on improving the game.

    http://www.doomsdayhq.com/

  7. I'm GNU to this license thing... *groan* by The-Bus · · Score: 1

    But... Can you create your own game assets? How easily "editable" is this game? I know some map editors and things of that nature came out for Total Annihiliation...

    --

    Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

    1. Re:I'm GNU to this license thing... *groan* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This game is very editable. A map editor is available and the format for pretty much all of the game data files is known. Most of these in fact have third party editors already created for them.

      -Kevin, realtimestrategies.net member

  8. Re:Wow this is great by Hard_Code · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yeah, nobody plays old games, that's insane! Come to think of it, i'm going home and going to tear apart my chess and monopoly boards!

    --

    It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
  9. Getting in tuch with the community. by Karmazilla · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hi folks,
    I'm a member on RTS.net, the gaming community that fought and hoped so long for this moment.
    I have just one thing to say: If you wan't to work with this source in a serious project, then join RTS.net - old NEWST folks are around at this site if you wonder where they went.
    You can go to the forum with this handy link:
    http://www.realtimestrategies.net/forums/index.php

    You can also get an overview of just about all webpages in warzone context by following this link:
    http://wzlinkturret.1go.dk/

    1. Re:Getting in tuch with the community. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you wan't to work

      "want".

    2. Re:Getting in tuch with the community. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Troll

  10. More Info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hello, My name is Chojun, I am administrator of the forums at http://www.realtimestrategies.net/forums/index.php It's great to see that this news made it onto slashdot. We encourage everyone to come down and take a look at the development project. It's framework has been in the works for some time now; we have just been waiting for the release of the source code. Anyone can work in the project, regardless of previous game-development or other coding experience. Sign up at the forums if you are interested. To answer some questions that I've noticed: Warzone2100 is a very moddable game-- to a certain extent. A team called NEWST was created in the early days of Warzone2100. As a part of that team, I worked with them to create some pretty amazing tools and mods for the game. Quickly we ran into problems and restrictions due to limits in the game engine, which is what prompted us to petition for the source code. Our goal is to revitalize Warzone, and release its limits to allow others to make modifications to the game.

    1. Re:More Info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's framework has been in the works

      "Its".

    2. Re:More Info by Karmazilla · · Score: 1

      Please, do not correct gramma/spelling/typos where it's not needed, which is, where the magnitude of the flaw does not diffuse the meaning. By doing those unneeded corrections you flood the discussion with worthless posts that doesn't have any value in the discussion becourse they are off topic - posts such as this one and yours.

    3. Re:More Info by Da+VinMan · · Score: 1

      ..with worthless posts that doesn't have any value..

      You meant to say "don't".

      Sorry, couldn't help it. :+)

      --
      Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
  11. Re:Wow this is great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe the article did (I'm not that interested in the game so I won't bother reading it), but the /. summary itself didn't mention anything about Warzone 2100 being the first commercial game to be later GPL'd or anything. Don't get your panties in a knot just because someone else is getting some spotlight. I seem to recall Doom and Quake getting their turn when they were released.

    Also, why hasn't Quake 3 been GPL'd yet? Following the five year time frame of Quake 1 and 2, I believe it's due by now.

  12. RAR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there any open-source program that can extract this source code, or a mirror in an open file format? The GPL'd unrar (by Ben Asselstine) managed to extract some of the files, but failed on 2256 of them.

    1. Re:RAR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah check out 7-zip. http://www.7-zip.org/

  13. How about adapting this to an RPG? by Zhe+Mappel · · Score: 1
    Here's a 3d engine with a decent camera system. I propose that someone remove the tanks, jeeps, cannons, etc., and retrofit the game with the world of one of the old pre-graphical RPGs--Moria, Dungeonhack, etc.

    Have that on my desk by Wednesday, please. ;-)

  14. Re:Wow this is great by shufler · · Score: 1

    ... but the /. summary itself didn't mention anything about Warzone 2100 being the first commercial game to be later GPL'd or anything.

    My panties are quite unknotted, I was merely pointing the Doomsday project to the poster who balked at the idea that anyone would care that a 5-year old game becomming GPL'd would be interesting to anyone.

    Obviously this is nothing new, but it would certainly make for an exciting project for anyone who likes RTS games.

  15. Re:Wow this is great by neumayr · · Score: 1

    Supposedly, it will be, soon. Like maybe still this year soon, though I wouldn't count on it.

    At least that's what JC said after Doom3 was released.

    --
    Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
  16. Game fuctionality from the download by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The source download does include a compiled version of the game - a debug version in fact. The original data files are also there except for most of the fmv files (some of the little videos are there). I can confirm the game is playable without them and has much the same level of functionality. The videos are stored in a known format which can be viewed, but would likely require special software to recreate. It would probably be easier to use a new video codec in the game, which is planned.

    -Kevin, realtimestrategies.net member

  17. Warzone scripting by Kevin_010 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Warzone DOES have a user-modifiable scripting language that, although normally used for the AI and campaign events (yes, you can change the AI :)), can be used to do pretty much anything, including I suppose control your own units. --Kevin, realtimestrategies.net member

  18. Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go on their forums and see all the discussion on how to circumvent the GPL, limit the distribution of source, link with closed-source Windows-only DLLs...

    Human nature sucks.

    1. Re:Sad by Kevin_010 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not all of us on the forums are thinking like that, but I admit, it is a rather disturbing thing to see talked about. I for one am for a much less restrictive distribution of the source, assuming for the momemnt that it is even legally justifiable. I AM however for some sort of closed source, optional, client, designed to verify that people aren't cheating.

      -Kevin, realtimestrategies.net admin

    2. Re:Sad by lavcoyote25 · · Score: 1

      yes please do come and join in on the ongoing discussions - it appears mr. coward - only sees that which he wishes to see. maybe those that have a more open mind will see through all the "human nature sucks" comment for what it truly is. mr. coward should stop being negative and join in... he may even enjoy the comeraderie(sp?)

    3. Re:Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
      They sure have some creative ways of talking about the GPL...

      http://www.realtimestrategies.net/forums/index.php ?showtopic=343&st=0/

      Example Quote:

      We should look and see if there are any clauses that differentiate between whether or not the source included with the .exe has to be the .exe's CURRENT version, or the ORIGINAL version released by Pivotal.

    4. Re:Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please stop posting using monspaced font. It's quite annoying.

    5. Re:Sad by Kevin_010 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't notice it was showing like that

    6. Re:Sad by lavcoyote25 · · Score: 0, Troll

      i stand by my invite. freedom of speech etc - or has this also been compromised by the facists... the gpl will be adhered to. have several questions for you mr coward - do you even own the original game disks - did you petition for the release of the source - have you manufactured anything for the game ie: maps/mods/a.i. mayhaps your hiding behind the mr coward for a reason that is not apparent at this time... but i will eventually know you...

    7. Re:Sad by lavcoyote25 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      and by the way - human nature does not suck human nature blows - gravity sucks.

    8. Re:Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...but i will eventually know you...

      Is that some kind of pathetic threat? Nice "comeraderie"! I really wanna be a part of your project now.

    9. Re:Sad by lavcoyote25 · · Score: 0

      not a threat - seriously - if one does not know their fellow community members - where does that go... nowhere but chaos. come and join in on the discussions.

    10. Re:Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The egos on that forum are such that there's no way in this world I'd consider playing around with anything built by those guys.

      been here for 5+ years contributing in more ways than you can possibly imagine & your gonna waltz in with 48 hours under your belt and try to get all up in my face.....

      Dude... you aint that special & even if your where I'd hardly kow-tow because you said I should.
  19. Re:abuses of the mod system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I think the point of this sig was irony.

    I think it's even more ironic that I used all my mod points modding his/her posts down.

  20. Re:RAR?; how about tar.bz2 by Kevin_010 · · Score: 1

    I'm managing one of the mirrors for the initial source release (yay second person to get the source ;)). if you would like, I could recompress it in a different format in a matter of minutes... actually, here: http://twz.tsunade.net/source . keep in mind I just made this, and although it should be the same as the original, something could have happened

    -Kevin, realtimestrategies.net member

  21. Amazing by CrackedButter · · Score: 5, Interesting


    Some of the levels for this game was brilliant. I particularly like the one where the computer program had found the second base in the urban levels. You had to EVAC the base while at the same time defend it in order to get every last troop out of there. I remember stashing the highest ranking troops in the Airships first and leaving the newbs to defend the base. But the problem was, the newbs were the most advanced troops (if you hadn't already recycled the higher ranking ones). I love playing that level over and over again.
    Amazingly, nobody on Slashdot thought it was even worthy of a mention back early this year when Slashdot featured the greatest RTS of all time. Of course TA was mentioned and Warzone 2100 never was.Those 2 games were simply the best for game playing and sheer fun.
    Lets not forget the small expansion packs for Warzone 2100, they offered even more units, super troops and those huge Red Dragon Tanks which you knew you had won if you had built them. Then there was the small downloadable campaigns which featured even more unique units. Tanks with 2 gun turrets and such, so powerful they took out nearly everything with one or two shots.
    It pissed me right off when I switched to the mac and this game wasn't available. I'd play it again in a heartbeat.

    --
    Jonathanjk.com
  22. Back on topic by B'Trey · · Score: 1

    Anybody have any idea how modular this code is? In other words, is the graphics engine code cleanly separate from the game code? If so, why not look at using this graphics engine to implement your ideas?

    --

    "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.

    1. Re:Back on topic by escher · · Score: 1

      If so, why not look at using this graphics engine to implement your ideas?

      Becuase I'm going to use this project as an opportunity to learn OpenGL as well. :)

  23. Article left something out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The acutal source packages includes EVERYTHING you need to play the game. You don't have to have a copy of the game to actually play it.

  24. comparison to other 3D RTS games? by alc6379 · · Score: 1

    How does the camera system compare to Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War, or the Myth line? I love DoW, but sometimes the camera control can be a little clunky. I usually end up ignoring the option is there, and just zooming in after I've already told my units to destroy something, so I can just watch them take their target to task. I've never seen an effective way to use the camera to any type of advantage in any RTS with a 3D camera.

    --
    I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?