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WAN/LAN/VoIP Training Other than Cisco?
skeezix-the-cat asks: "After 9/11, the economy tanked, and a lot of state budgets shrank drastically, especially IT budgets. I work for a NOC for a western state with a population as sparse as Wyoming, but not nearly as well connected that was particularly hard hit by the recession. Training money at our agency has been scant, almost non-existent since 2001. Security has seen some bucks, and Windows/Microsoft training of course for the LAN team but general WAN training has suffered. Cisco VoIP training would be swell, and it's everywhere (but in our state). I have one shot at top-shelf training, a week, maybe two. What else is out there as far as LAN/WAN/VoIP training that would cover VoIP and related in a non-Cisco format that still would translate into my Cisco environment?"
"Even with the lack of training, we do ok -- Cisco TAC is nothing to sneeze at, Qwest carrier services techs are available and (IMHO) second to none, and our WAN team is blessedly a talented bunch of self starters. We route, switch, tunnel and bridge just about any whacked out architecture you can think of (but no MPLS yet.....). Our WAN is insane --multi-vendor frame, ATM, private DSL, private-line, lashed to a Sonet-MGX core (among other aggregation schemes), you name it we do it.
It has come to pass that I have a rare opportunity for some honest-to-god paid-for training, and w/ VoIP barreling down on everyone, this is where i'm looking to throw myself with this chance. We are pretty much a Cisco shop, but some agencies are prevailing on non-Cisco VoIP solutions. I have CBWFQ successfully making VoIP work --VoIP 'trunking' switch-attached phones between multi-cloud-connected sites w/ ATM-- across select backwaters of our network, I grok the basics and can even make it work.
I'm no expert, but I'm to the point, having made it work in one or two locations, that I have some nuanced, technique questions even (queueing, etc). If the Cisco training is all that's realistically available, I'll take it and be grateful, be it Cisco VoIP offerings or (jeepers) CIT would be fantastic...arguably better/more useful than the VoIP stuff, per se.
Is anyone out there prevailing on any great WAN/routing/QoS/troubleshooting training that *isn't* Cisco? Management wants me to tell them what I want, and tell them soon as in within the week --before the money evaporates."
It has come to pass that I have a rare opportunity for some honest-to-god paid-for training, and w/ VoIP barreling down on everyone, this is where i'm looking to throw myself with this chance. We are pretty much a Cisco shop, but some agencies are prevailing on non-Cisco VoIP solutions. I have CBWFQ successfully making VoIP work --VoIP 'trunking' switch-attached phones between multi-cloud-connected sites w/ ATM-- across select backwaters of our network, I grok the basics and can even make it work.
I'm no expert, but I'm to the point, having made it work in one or two locations, that I have some nuanced, technique questions even (queueing, etc). If the Cisco training is all that's realistically available, I'll take it and be grateful, be it Cisco VoIP offerings or (jeepers) CIT would be fantastic...arguably better/more useful than the VoIP stuff, per se.
Is anyone out there prevailing on any great WAN/routing/QoS/troubleshooting training that *isn't* Cisco? Management wants me to tell them what I want, and tell them soon as in within the week --before the money evaporates."
call vonage dawg.
has some certs other than that you are looking at proprietary certs for a particular product.
> After 9/11 the economy tanked
I just would like to point out that the U.S. economy was heading for a correction about that time. It has proven convenient for people to blame terrorism for problems with the U.S. economy rather than address root causes. Then again, perhaps the poster was not implying cause and effect here?
Is this the promised end? Or image of that horror? KING LEAR
YDI (DC based, I think) offers training seminars/conferences. I've sent some employees there and have been reasonably satisfied with the results. Here's their info page: http://www.ydi.com/support/training.php
caritj.org
90% of the concepts will port.
-Randy
They are called books and they can be had usually for $50 or less. There is also something called the Internet, it has a lot of information too.
New Kinetics http://newkinetics.com/ offer VoIP training, primarily focused on European clients for their VoIP courses, though they do perform in house training in the US too.
What have I learned about VoIP and different companies? Mostly that one company's management tools are a world of difference away from another's.
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
Buy the Cisco Press books then take the certification test. Then pass the books on to the next person in your department. Easy as pie. Those classes are usually hard to learn anything concrete from anyway.
Avaya has a very strong presence in the VoIP world. They offer training all over so check them out. Will it carry over? It depends. All of the management and software is different between vendors. Sure, some of the underlying stuff is the same, but anything you usually mess with is different.
Get FreeSCO (http://www.freesco.org/) and download FAQs and stuff. Even the "cheap" training places don't offer their product for free, and you can at least nail the concepts down with books and Internet-provided information. I work for a $4 billion pharmaceutical and am allowed exactly one training course per year.
Since when is there another western state less populated then Wyoming?
Why does everyone in government IT demand weeks of training for tasks that they then perform with less competence than private sector employees who happily "picked it up" from reading and playing around for a few hours?
if you can travel . . . http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-VoIP+Training/
I understand you want to get some formalized training while the getting is good. Don't blame you there.
But, honestly, the absolute best way to learn something like this is to do it. Download asterisk and start playing. You can even connect a free soft-phone (SIP) to it so there is really no up front cost.
IMHO, formalized training is only useful *after* you have already learned a good deal about the subject matter. It gives you a chance to organize all you thoughts that have been plaguing you, and have a compentent teacher answer them for you.
Going in cold to VOIP lab, when you leave you will understand some jargon - but most of the deep concepts will escape you.
If you are running Windows and Cisco instead of Linux and Asterisk you are not broke!....pay up sucka
Got Code?
You don't need a training class. If you go through the Cisco web site, you'll see that all of the manuals are right there. While lengthy, those manuals provide very comprehensive discussion around the specific commands/steps to implement the concepts. If you look at the tech notes, you'll find all sorts of information on the theory. Together, you get a comprehensive picture of both the high-level concepts and the low-level commands.
I just went through a CallManager/CRS installation, and spent most of my time reading the Admin Guides and the System Guides, and spent some quality time with the VoIP-specific IOS guides to setup my gateways. Really, look in the manual, and you'll see: Step 1: bla, Step 2: bla, To Verify Setup: bla. No training, no certification, just a working system. Those manuals are great, and TAC will help you out on the rare occasion you get stuck.
From your question, it really looks like you've figured out the CallManager stuff, and are now just optimizing your network. The thing to keep in mind about VoIP is that it's oIP. All of the knowledge that you already have about traffic optimization applies directly to the voice traffic.
Spend your training bucks elsewhere, preferably at a conference that takes you to Tahiti.
Well, there are a few standards in the area of VoIP so, your request shouldn't be out-of-line. But, the fact is that the two biggest players in the VoIP arena are Cisco and Nortel. They both claim to follow the standards but, they also both have enough of their own proprietary stuff in there to make them non-standard. Cisco waffles on about H323 and SIP, Nortel does too but, both prefer their own signaling system.
Your employer, a government agency, is unlikely to implement any of the lessor vendor's products. Furthermore, you will never see the likes of Asterisk or Skype while employed there. This all means that you should get vendor training from whomever your employer is most likely to implement. On the surface, it sounds like that would be Cisco but, check the telephone on your desk. If it is a Nortel phone, then there is a good chance that your state may implement a Nortel VoIP solution.
sorry, this is what I meant to type in . . http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-VoIP+Training Asterisk is worth looking into - install if you like. It is compatible with sip and cisco's "skinny" protocol and works with cisco phones as well as many others. It also does h.323 (if you like pain), iax2 (used by some big companies such as VoicePulse), adsi, sip, etc. http://www.voip-info.org/tiki-index.php?page=Aster isk
You can download an iso and install it from the iso or run from a live cd:
http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+installatio n+tips
all above are from http://wwww.voip-info.org/
Hmm.. so your environment is Cisco, but there are no Cisco classes in your area... but on the other hand, Cisco education is much more widely distributed than any other type of networking training... Wait... why don't you just go to Cisco training again?
Sure, there's Juniper, etc. But the reality is that Cisco still has the most comprehensive, practical, network training on the planet.
Classes aren't good for much except the Lab. In the lecture they basically read the book to you, so if you can read for yourself, you might save some money by hitting Ebay for your lab equipment and Amazon for your training material.
Maybe I'm lucky, but my boss never skimps on the training budget. In fact, he often has to push my colleagues and me out the door, because we're "too busy" for training. He downright insists on training. I work at a small, private university so maybe this is a rare case.
Enlighten the guy who holds your purse strings about the ROI for training. Do some surfing and find some numbers and statistics. The folks who control the money understand that.
Best of luck!
SiO2
Not to be rude, but I have found that RTFM, Google, 3rd party books, and Cisco Field Manuals (bn.com) and served me better than classes. I have found classes slow and a waste of time.
It really depends on what exactly you are looking to learn. Are you wanting to learn a vendor's product? Are you wanting to learn software solutions? Hardware?
Some of the big VoIP guys that I am familiar with or have worked with are:
Some of them are hardware switches with VoIP capabilities. Some are PBX systems with VoIP capabilities. Some are software switches that do VoIP in software completely. Some are VoIP voicemail systems. Some are VoIP software PBX systems.
So I ask again, what do you want to learn?
I was going to recommend Global Knowledge, but after reading some of the other posts I see there is plenty of education and training available that I never knew existed.
Personally I'd rather save the cash, read a book, and test things out in my lab. But that's just me.
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
Stats on voip manufactors
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
If I were you, I'd talk to the finance guys so that they just give you the money and you bring them the bills. I'd invest in books and a nice computer farm at home (in fact I have it already), one fast computer for home entertainment + sometimes a server, a slower and cheap computer for serve, sometimes client and a laptop and you can emulate any environment on these 3 computers (plus you can run vmvare or similar and have even more computers) for instance install asterisk on the cheap server and have fun at home.
And after you're done you can either sell the computers or have them for your own entertainment.
From the article:
Our WAN is insane --multi-vendor frame, ATM, private DSL, private-line, lashed to a Sonet-MGX core (among other aggregation schemes), you name it we do it.
It seems to me that he is already trained and experienced in much more advanced WAN scenarios than FreeSCO could ever offer.
Does FreeSCO support frame-relay, ATM, private DSL, leased line or Sonet? No, I didn't think so. For that matter, does FreeSCO even support a rouing protocol like, RIP2, EIGRP, OSPF, IS-IS or BGP? Even Windows 95 can do the "routing" that FreeSCO does but, that doesn't make Windows 95 a router.
quit playing cute with your "guessing games" and just tell us which state you're from.. don't worry.. i won't beat your ass
peace nigga
RIP DIMEBAG DARRYL!!
Typically CBWFQ (Class-based Weighted Fair Queueing) is not used for voice as it gives a bandwdith guarantee, but not one for latency. To keep voice quality consistent you want a fixed amount of bandwidth and the lowest latency possible. On cisco gear this is implemented using LLQ (Low Latency Queuing) which works as a straight priority queue. You can use policing to keep it from running away with all the bandwidth.
Management wants me to tell them what I want, and tell them soon as in within the week.
Or should that be December 11th?
Stay on dude, it's scary: Status bar
Packetizer
I've worked for both Telecom and Data vendors, and every one I ever work with always seem to have problems understanding "the other side". VoIP is such a broad term with so many different signalling protocols, it is hard to really know what the heck someone means when they say VoIP. Learn your basics of the PSTN network, eventually there will be certainly be a call that needs to go out a PSTN. First class I took when VoIP was "new" and was a SS7 course, back then we were signalling with IPDC but one of the greatest classes ever to fully understand what Telephony signalling is all about. You'll have an edge over strictly Data guys because you will know the PSTN, debug it and point to what the interop issue with the Switch is. When call routing fails, you can trace back to why it took the wrong path. Data guys can only look back to the gatekeeper and IP signalling. Don't get me wrong, I started as a data guy and realized telco was my weakness. Having an understanding of a Telco network will give you the better understanding of both sides of the network. Although I do work for a hardware vendor, I'm not vendor centric. A lot of the insterop issues does require me to configure Metaswitches, Sonus, 5ES, DMS, etc.. but having the SS7 training I get a fairly good start without ever being tied to a vendor. If something isn't working, I breakout a test set and look at "Signalling" the magic that makes it all work.
If you cannot read the docs and self train then you should move to management.
that the Cisco training is vapid and pointless, helping only enhance the ranks of the Borg-like masses who march to the Fife of Chambers
Real Networks use Real Routers
I can't argue with those that tell you to get books and study, as that is a great way to learn.
d ex.php?client_id=196&event_id=13208&bypass_reg=tru e
However, you should be aware of another supplementary training option. Cisco's annual network technology training conference called Networkers is available online for about $300. You will get a subscription to the service for a year, during which you can stream audio and slides from any of the two-hour training sessions presented at the conference. The material ranges from introductory to very advanced, and includes 44 hours of VOIP specific instruction taught by people who really know what they are doing (and hundreds of hours of other material on unrelated routing and switching technologies)
Unfortunately, it doesnt like firefox/linux too much, but it works well on windows.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/scp/viewer/in
anyway, highly recommended. and the material can be trusted to be more current than that available in most books.
For anal sex, whilst screaming on a VoIP phone.
Montana, the Dakotas, or Idaho?
The best place to get trained is google.com :)
I hold the Cisco Certified Network and Design Profesional ratings and only the MPLS exam stands between me and the Cisco Certified Internetwork Professional ticket, which means I've had the pleasure of the Cisco DQOS exam recently.
I used to work for an international voice carrier and I've had my hands in various VoIP projects for about the last five years. I have one customer with a six node Cisco VoIP over low speed frame network, another with a five site contraption that does VoIP and video over point to point frame encapsulated T1s, and I'm in preliminary discussions with investors on starting a VoIP centrex of CLEC service in my city.
I'm within driving distance of you, things are slack at the end of the year, and I used to work for what is the third or fourth largest used Cisco shop in the country - I can stop there, pick up a bunch of Cisco VoIP toys, and head your way.
You can email me, bliss at ignorant dot org, if this sounds like a possible solution.
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
From the point of view of training being transferable I guess VOIP breaks down into two areas: 1) VOIP protocols actually on the wire This is your H323 and Skinny etc. Any stuff you learn about this and queuing/bandwidth requirements etc is totally transferable from on evendor to another. 2) Config and management of VOIP PBX This would be Cisco CallManager or Nortel BCM for example. Here really we are talking about applications and the management and reporting tools that come with them. These are usually completely different from one vendor to the next and there is not really that much that's transferable from the point of view of training. Pat CCIE #2305
You will learn more about VoIP if you grab asterisk from
http://asterisk.org
than if you attend 1000 training classes!
I see a lot of posts to this thread saying things like "read a book" or "use Google", and suggesting that all you need to do is download Asterisk and play with it. I would suggest that these people do not install and support VoIP systems in a production environment.
Reading and self-study are major components to learning a new technology, and I agree that a few good Cisco Press books will help you tremendously in the realm of learning complex concepts such as QoS. There are quite a number of online and deadtree resources for learning about legacy telephony concepts (which translate into VoIP concepts). However, building real world skills with VoIP systems requires a considerable amount of hands-on time. And unless you have a fortune to spend on gear and software for a lab, self-study is just not an option.
Training classes will provide you access to the same voice gateway and switching hardware you would use when implementing a real world project. And that hands on time will prove invaluable when you are trying to configure a T1 blade in your Cat6509 to work as a voice gateway to interface with a legacy Lucent voicemail system. There is much more to it than simply having the book knowledge of the difference between loop-start and E&M.
Having said that, your quest for cross-platform training is going to hit some significant obstacles. Core concepts can be learned from written materials, and you will get a solid foundation of telephony knowledge that can translate well across platforms. But the devil is in the implementation. Here's where you have to pick which pony you're going to ride.
The actual implementation of VoIP technologies varies to such a degree from vendor to vendor, that trying to take a Nortel class to learn skills for use in implementing a Cisco CallManager system would be pretty much futile. Each system has its unique approaches to the various problems of VoIP, as well as its own secret tricks or techniques.
So my advice would be this: get some books to learn the core technologies and concepts of telephony. But decide which vendor you are going to focus on (or which vendor your company is going to implement) and take one or two training classes for that vendor's system, and get some lab time with their gear under your belt. Another possibility, is to use vendor resources to get free training or lab time. I don't know if Cisco has a regional office in your area, but build a relationship with your account team and parlay that into some free time in one of their "partner labs". I've known Cisco to give out hours of time in the lab, as well as what amounts to free training with the product specialists and SE's, if they think the end result of their effort will be a sale.
I'd recommend a small company called Interactive Intelligence. They're call routing capacity is unbelievably good, and they have a pretty neat 'call handler' designer.
Check out http://www.inin.com. They also piggy-back on Cisco (to make up for some of Cisco's many deficiencies in the call handling dept.).
They really push SIP, mainly because Cisco's old TAPI solution was wwwaaaayyyy rough to interface with (Cisco provided 3rd party guys with a TSP layer -- something to control their system with -- and it crashed *a lot*)
Not to rock too much on Cisco, it's real easy to make fun of the first guy out of the shute! However, just 'cause they *were* the first guy, doesn't mean you have to stick with 'em either.
If you decide to go the Cisco route, I recommend taking the Cisco VoIP classes, not CIT (the Cisco troubleshooting course). I have been a certified Cisco instructor for years, and I can tell you that CIT is focused on pure routing and switching, not VoIP. Cisco's Cvoice class gives you a solid background on VoIP concepts (basic telephony, H.323, MGCP, SIP, etc.) and is not terribly product specific, but be aware that 30-40% of it focuses on POTS integration. The other Cisco VoIP classes are more product specific.
WHERE DO YOU WORK??
Most of us would kill for an employer like that. Heck, I bet you even get health care coverage!
If you are looking for VOIP hacking and security, I attended the Advanced Ethical Hacking course at InfoSec Institute. It was pretty good.
In my opinion, there's no one better than ARG. I've taken about a dozen classes from them. I've used others, but ARG is tops. (They're changing names to Global Knowledge.
http://www.globalknowledge.com/ Look at their course catalog. They publish "Virtual Classrooms" at significant savings over classroom schools.
If you live in a remote area, you may need to travel for the classrooms. They're held in hotel ballrooms, 8:30 to 4:30 or 5pm. Many of the classes involve equipment and hands-on. The classes are interesting, the instructors are colorful and have real world experience. I've yet to find a "dud" in their inventory.
You might also try the University of Phoenix. Online, telecommunications classes. I've not done it, but I know others that have.
-- No sig for you!
Inter-Tel is pretty much the only vendor I have worked with that has a reliable VOIP solution. I have never seen a Cisco, Avaya or Panasonic system actually work as advertised in the real world. I have configured installed and supported PBX nad VOIP solutions with all these vendors. Inter-Tel has excellent training facilites and instructors at Inter-Tel university in Pheonix. If you have not looked at an Inter-Tel solution, you probably should. They have everyone beat on technology by a wide margin. Expect to pay more for it however.
Are you smoking crack? Have you seen the Cleveland Plain Dealer's Classified Ads? They stink.
IT related jobs in Cleveland are in very short supply.
We've been happily using Adtran hw for some time, and have been quite pleased. Further, their tech support engineers are that second-to-none you so eagerly enjoy with qwest. These guys held my hand as we journeyed through the uncharted waters of our current VOIP storm.
It's not a certificate, but it gets you through a bind.