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Blizzard Cracks Down on World of Warcraft Ebaying

Last Friday Blizzard put up a message on the World of Warcraft site stating that Ebaying of in-game items would not be tolerated. This is the first time a MMOG developer has come out of the gate with so strong a policy, and combined with their tough policy on hacking is a heartening sign that community infractions will be taken seriously. TerraNova has commentary on the development as well. From the article: "If they do [succeed], we might have to start thinking of World of Warcraft as the first of a new generation of virtual worlds. It may not seem all that different in terms of some design aspects, but if its war against eBayers succeeds, it will end up being very different in terms of atmosphere."

29 of 196 comments (clear)

  1. So happy. by eviltypeguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am so wonderfully happy to hear this. Like any game, people should have to earn their rank and position.

    I don't have any problem with someone using the in-game auction houses to get items, and I think this will help foster a much better sense of community.

    1. Re:So happy. by Cecil · · Score: 2, Informative

      people should have to earn their rank and position.

      The problem with this mindset is that it ensures that the *only* way of investing yourself in the game is by investing time. This gives a unique advantage to the kids who find the time to play the game 40 hours a week, and 18 hours a day during the summer. Which in and of itself isn't bad, except that it alienates the "older kids" among us, myself included, who have full-time jobs and many responsibilities beyond that, because we're lucky when we can fit in a few hours a week. We're willing to pay for our entertainment, or at least I am, but with no way of improving our characters beyond time -- which we don't have -- we remain eternal newbies. Which is really not that fun, no matter how you try to spin it.

      The people who purchase equipment and characters and experience and gold and whatever else, are typically not doing it so they can roll into your zone and start hogging all the loot 24 hours a day and get an unfair advantage over you... some do, but they're not the majority.

    2. Re:So happy. by eviltypeguy · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have maybe an hour to play each day at most. And Blizzard has specifically designed this game to be played by people who don't have that much time to devote to it. For example, the more time your character spends logged out and resting at an inn, the longer the amount of time that character will receive 200% of the normal XP given by quests, discoveries, and monsters. So I'm going to have to disagree with your argument.

      Because of how they've balanced the game, I've managed to get to my 24th level already with as little as I've been playing. Sure, there are people that are already at level 40, but it's not a grind, and it's fun.

      Besides, I feel my opinion is just as legitimate as yours given that i'm no "kid" either at my age.

      And before you use the old fart argument, my guild leader is 55 years old. I'm only level 24, and he's level 41 even though we've both been playing since day one.

    3. Re:So happy. by eviltypeguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, the main point of games is that the player should have fun.

      After a certain point in the game, MMORPG are dependent on how lucky your drops are or how much time you can spend sitting in-front of a keyboard doing the same thing X times. For some people, that isn't fun.


      But World of Warcraft doesn't suffer from those problems. At no point have I felt like I'm in a level grind, and I've spent more time playing other games in the past than I have World of Warcraft with far more results.

      Other MMORPGs may be dependent on how lucky drops are or the like, but this game is not one of those.

    4. Re:So happy. by lobsterGun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that the items that folks buy off of ebay have to come from somewhere. ...That means that when I (a casual player) enter the Tomb of Dread in search of the (Ultra Valuable) Short Sword of Uberness, there is already some clown standing ther waiting for it to drop. And when it does drop he'll log that character out and log in another character to wait for it to drop again.

      and that spoils my gaming experience.

      Hence I don't play MMOGS that support ebaying.

    5. Re:So happy. by fireduck · · Score: 2, Interesting

      this is solved by judicious use of instancing, which WoW obviously incorporates. Simply make Tomb of Dread an instanced dungeon, and you won't have a single camper waiting for the Uber sword, as they'll all be in their own dungeons waiting for it.

    6. Re:So happy. by Kaa · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem is that the items that folks buy off of ebay have to come from somewhere. ...That means that when I (a casual player) enter the Tomb of Dread in search of the (Ultra Valuable) Short Sword of Uberness, there is already some clown standing ther waiting for it to drop. And when it does drop he'll log that character out and log in another character to wait for it to drop again.

      Of course, in WoW the major dungeons are instanced -- meaning you get your own private version of the Tomb of Dread, just as the ebay clown does, and both of you get your own uberloot without stepping on each other's toes.

      So, no, that argument does not fly at all.

      --

      Kaa
      Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
  2. Economic Inevitability by DLWormwood · · Score: 3, Insightful
    How does Blizzard expect to enforce this? eBay isn't the only auction house on the web, and even assuming that they hire a largish tech team to spy^H^H^Hwatch many sites, they can't see everything. Battle.net account termination can only occur if Blizzard discovers the trade in the first place.

    If nothing else, people will just turn to older, more obscure venues like USENET to engage in trades, or even do it over e-mail or in person. How can Blizzard expect to stop the black market trade if world governments can't do it in the real world?

    --
    Those who complain about affect & effect on /. should be disemvoweled
    1. Re:Economic Inevitability by rogueMonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Answer: 80/20 rule. Stop the 20% sellers that sell 80% of the stuff and the problem becomes marginal and can probably be ignored. How can we live in society with murder and rape? We try to catch as many wrong-doers as we can and convince others that they have more to lose from breaking the rules than from obeying them. We can't eradicate crime, but we can try to control it.

    2. Re:Economic Inevitability by BrynM · · Score: 3, Insightful
      eBay isn't the only auction house on the web, and even assuming that they hire a largish tech team to spy^H^H^Hwatch many sites, they can't see everything.
      It wouldn't take much to whip up some bot scripts that troll various auction sites for keywords and such. Sure, sellers could try the whole 1337 writing style stuff that spam has become so notorious for, but that will just make the items less likely to sell due to seeming fraudulent or at least unsavory. Yes the eBay alternatives would be harder to track than eBay, but the customers won't be as plentiful. eBay is sure to help them out citing copyright and trademark violations.

      I think Blizzard has a good chance of severly curbing auctioning or at least making a royal pain in the ass to do. If they manage to make it almost as hard as actually earning the item, then they have won. The final word being Blizzard's of course. They can can/ban you for anything they feel like and not care much about false positives if they so choose.

      --
      US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
    3. Re:Economic Inevitability by baalz · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you're overestimating the difficulty here. Blizzard is banning accounts, a rather large cost to being caught so their rate of catching people doesn't have to be very high. Imagine they employ a single clueful techie even half time to find any infringements. It won't stop all sales obviously, but it would stop most sales between people who didn't know each other already, reducing item sales by several orders of magnitude. Would you buy/sell something if there is a non-negligable chance you'll lose your account because somebody who knows what they're doing has bots scanning the USENET?

    4. Re:Economic Inevitability by Kaa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think Blizzard has a good chance of severly curbing auctioning or at least making a royal pain in the ass to do.

      I very much doubt it.

      First, Blizzard has no legal basis to prevent anyone from posting things like "Selling blue 1H sword +20 Str +30 Sta". Sure, the EULA might prohibit it, but the EULA isn't binding on, say, a website which hosts a board.

      Second, it's trivially easy to arrange sales over boards, IRC channels, etc. etc. Paypal works without Ebay perfectly well. And it's not like it's hard to create one-off email addresses.

      So in this case I think Blizzard is all bark and no bite.

      --

      Kaa
      Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
    5. Re:Economic Inevitability by Schemat1c · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I seriously hope you didn't just compare the sale of virtual items to rape and murder.

      I didn't see anywhere in that post where rape and murder were compared to anything . I read a very clear analogy comparing the technics of real world crime control to it's virtual world counterpart.

      Maybe you should read the post again.

      --

      "Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
    6. Re:Economic Inevitability by Starsmore · · Score: 2, Informative
      True, Blizzard has no legal basis to keep people from advertising, but they do have the legal basis to find the person selling the "Blue 1H sword +20 Str +30 Sta", smack them, kick them off the game, and then find the guy that bought said sword, and delete the item.

      It's called the 'Its My Sandbox' principle. If you don't like how Blizzard runs their game, there's a good half dozen others out there.

      --
      "If Common Sense was so common, it wouldn't be such a valued trait."
  3. hmmm... by ack154 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just did a quick search and most of the things I saw were a couple gold pieces or something and the people were strictly claiming in the auction that the "item" is property of Blizzard and that the person is paying for the time to gather it and process the transaction...

    I wonder what Blizzard thinks of that? Still bad, I assume?

    1. Re:hmmm... by MindStalker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Still not allowed by blizzards policy. Sugar coating the legal language isn't going to help you. If you want to trde, use the in-game trading system, which lets you trade virtual-items and virtual-money for other virtual-items and virtual-money. Blizzard can afford kick the players that are only there to make money off the system, so they will do it. The other MMORGS would do this too, but they are probably scared of turning away subsribers, when in reality, banning this activity could ulimatly bring in new subscribers.

  4. Re:Why is this so bad? by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Uh... when you are PAYING for a game, it is pretty important that the game be "fair"

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  5. Pointless for newbies by Dekks · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From my brief time in beta, I was under the impression that most of the good items can't be used until a higher level anyway, so the only thing you could really get that would be useful is money, and a newbie probably wouldn't make much use of a few million gold anyway one would think?

  6. Re:Blizzard Tax by MindStalker · · Score: 2, Informative

    Oh, I'm sure they could capitalize if they want to. Other games have. Blizzard has made a concous decision that they want their game to be different. Why must you assume the worse?

  7. The easy way is to encourage the vigilantes by Fo0eY · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First of all, Blizzard will never be able to keep up if they try to catch and ban each party in a transaction.

    What they need to do, is go after the major sellers/sites which are selling ingame goods. And from the wording on their site, it appears that they're going to start doing just that.

    I don't think Blizzard will have any problem just outright suing/prosecuting anyone they catch selling ingame items. When you think about it, sellers are really committing fraud by selling something that's not theirs to start with.

    They'd only have to bankrupt a few people before it'd stop real fast, or at least go far enough underground to make it a non-issue.

    The real difficulty is finding the people doing the selling, and that's where the vigilantes come in. There are always TONS of people that get a mean hardon snitching out other gamers, so all Blizzard has to do is ask the "fans" for help in protecting their game, and they'll probably get more tips than they can deal with.

  8. Re:That's Sony's policy as well... by MMaestro · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Generally, game companies such as Blizzard have to do this sort of tracking down themselves beyond sending eBay an e-mail telling them to bring the auction down. From selling to buying you'll go through no less than 4 step.

    1. Auction site/Trading site/College bulletin board (take your pick)
    2. Adverisement/Referal (its underground now, so expect to do some research to find it)
    3. Paypal/bank/credit card (or equal, gotta have the money trail or its all hot air)
    4. Connecting the auctioner's information with the buyer's and seller's WoW accounts. (Gotta know who to ban)

    Take all this, web proxys, fake e-mail addresses, companies that are usually outside of the U.S., very little information, and the fact that you can't monitor this stuff in game (is XYZ players trading legit or did they buy it with real money?) makes this a very complicated business. Chances are the only reason why Blizzard is so successful right now is because its early, its fairly obvious and its learning from the mistakes of other games. Give it a few months and Blizzard is gonna start missing a lot of these guys or hitting the wrong people.

  9. I hope it works by Fr05t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ebay, IGE, etc have trashed other MMORPG economies. There isn't any way to get it all. Most (I'm speaking from my experience with FFXI) won't do anything or very little to stop it because they don't want to lose a paying customer.

    All Blizzard needs to do(and I hope they do):
    -Sue a couple people ebaying money/items/characters.
    -Kick about 200 or so accounts for trying to buy/sell to IGE.
    -Threaten IGE with legal action and ask for a list of their customers/dealers (ban those accounts too).

    This will put enough fear in your average player to being things to an acceptable level.

    Oh, before anyone tries to say this is what the RIAA is doing - it's not. It might be if RIAA suing people for downloading an MP3, selling it to a web company, then sold to someone else marked up by 80%.

    It might cost Blizzard some lawyer money and less in monthly reviews in the short term. In the long term they won't need to worry about players waiting for a new MMORPG with a fresh economy, and lack of high level ebay fuck-tards.

    1. Re:I hope it works by Fr05t · · Score: 2, Informative

      Blizzards EULA states that everything in game is their property (Items/Coins/Characters) and users are not authorized to tranfser Blizzard's property in exchange for real money.

      I think Blizzard probably could win a court case based on someone else making money reselling what does not belong to them.

      The "selling my time" argument wouldn't really hold up either. It's like me saying "When I sold company X information from company B's database they were paying me for my time. Oh um no Company B didn't say it was ok for me to do that - actually they told me I couldn't do just that in a legal agreement I had to accept before I could access the database."

  10. Re:That's Sony's policy as well... by MuNansen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As soon as any alternate route for sales like these becomes popular, though, it's easy to stop it. If they get a method where the seller is completely anonymous until the in-game transaction, they can just bait sellers with GMs disguised as buyers. They'll never STOP the sales, but they can sure put a very large dent in them. I just think that WoW is the first MMORPG popular enough, and popular because of the quality of the game and not the size of the community, where Blizzard can just say "screw the re-sellers, we don't care if we lose their accounts because we've got plenty others, including ones that choose to play WoW BECAUSE we are so vigilant with the re-sellers/botters." Although on the other side, I don't actually mind the re-selling much, and it really is an interesting economical phenomenon. Especially considering the gold in Ultima Online was at one time worth more than the Mexican peso.

  11. Re:Blizzard Tax by servognome · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem is it sends them down a dark legal road where they admit items in game = real money.
    Server goes down and characters are reset - somebody then sues Blizzard because they lost their possessions worth $4000; they also become responsible for losses due to scams, bugs, nerfs (hey my $2000 ubersword got nerfed and is now only worth $5), etc. It also changes the dynamic of the game from entertainment to profit.

    --
    D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  12. Intersection of reality and fantasy.. by vhold · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can't say that I've stayed away MMORPGs strictly for such a simple reason, but getting rid of the ebay overtone to the game would definitely improve a game like this slightly.

    The idea of people spending $$$ to get ahead isn't what intrinsically bothers me, it's just the fact that the suspension of disbelief is dispelled when what should be a fully contained alternative universe intersects at the most fundamental level with the real one.

    Also, I'm willing to admit that the kind of people that are willing to farm in one way or another all day in order to make a buck I'd really rather see move on to another game. They have a vested interest to make all kinds of forum arguments that everything should be more scarce, time consuming and difficult, along with having the time and persistence to be a very vocal minority.

  13. Re:Why is this so bad? by radimvice · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's so bad about this?
    Other than "It's not fair"


    What's bad about this basically stems from what it means to be a "game" and not an extension of the real life economic market, and how the uncontrolled influence of real-world money into the picture destroys this separation.

    For those of you who can't seem to follow the logical link from "it's not fair" to "it's wrong," think about the reasons why purchasing services from game players using real-world money leads inevitably to corruption and is not tolerated and strictly regulated in any game.

    I strongly support Blizzard's attempt to keep World of Warcraft a place where people can continue to play and have fun without competing with sweatshop workers trying to make a living.

  14. Re:Why is this so bad? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    That's not a good enough reason though... if the items had "real world value" then Blizzard would be legally compelled to allow the "trading" much like Wizards with Magic cards or Ty with Beanies...Collectible companies have to be very careful to keep their fingers strictly off the "secondary" market.


    The argument that DOES work however is that Blizzard has set certian rules to "play in their sandbox". Much like Champion tennis player can't give me their Wimbelton trophy and I expect to just walk into the place...or a counrty club enforcing the golf rules. Blizzard is selling the "service" to play a "fair game" free from outside influances.


    A better example would be an "all you can eat buffet" club...but where ten people [paying] come into the resturant and spend all day "hoarding" the ice cream and pies from the buffet then selling favorites back to your other paying customers. That's the similar thing to what's going on. If the "customers" were consuming the pies for themselves it would be an inconvenience, but part of the store's "offer" but in the MMORGS like my example, they are just there to take away from the other paying customers...which ruins it for everyone.

  15. Re:Why is this so bad? by xero314 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Your first few lines confuse the transfer of physical property and the transfer of intelectual property. Had Wizards of the Coast licensed their Trading cards in a manor that did not transfer ownership then people would not be able to sell them. The best example of this type of situation applies to leased cars. When you lease a car you do not have the right to sell or transfer ownership of the car because you do not actually own the vehicle. In the case of an MMOG, the player or licensee does not actually own the characters or items, ownership is retained by the creating, or publishing company. See the follwing quotes from select World of Warcraft documentation.

    From the Blizzard EULA
    All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Game and all copies thereof (including, but not limited to, any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, storylines, character likenesses, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, and "applets" incorporated into the Game) are owned or expressly licensed by [Blizzard Inc.].

    From the Terms of Use of The World of War Craft:
    7. Selling of Items.
    Remember, at the outset of these Terms of Use, where we discussed how you were "licensed" the right to use World of Warcraft, and that your license was "limited"? Well, here is one of the more important areas where these license limitations come into effect. Note that Blizzard Entertainment either owns, or has exclusively licensed, all of the content which appears in World of Warcraft. Therefore, no one has the right to "sell" Blizzard Entertainment's content, except Blizzard Entertainment! So Blizzard Entertainment does not recognize any property claims outside of World of Warcraft or the purported "sale" in the "real world" of anything related to World of Warcraft. Accordingly, you may not sell items for "real" money or trade items for things of value outside of World of Warcraft.


    Just trying to make people aware of what they are actually agreeing to when they click the big yes at the end of and EULA.