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Emulation and the Video Game Industry

bshanks writes "Use of a Game Over: Emulation and the Video Game Industry is a paper which examines the business and legal consequences of emulators. The paper makes recommendations to video game companies on how to adapt to and profit from them rather than fight them." From the paper: " A decade ago, video game emulators epitomized the cutting edge of programming technology. Ten years hence, they are the subject of a heated debate over copyrights and the video game industry's future. Emulators, which provide conversion software that enables games to run on personal computers ("PC's") and other systems or platforms for which they were not originally designed, have become a staple among gaming enthusiasts. Several factors have contributed to the robust market for emulation..."

73 comments

  1. PC? by Attar81 · · Score: 2, Funny

    So that's what PC stands for! I've been confused for so long!

  2. Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll stop ripping off software when they release Aliens Vs Predator: The Arcade Game on one of those nifty joysticks that you can plug into your tv.

    1. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would they?? You already stole it. You going to buy it after you already have a free copy on you PC?

    2. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called latent demand, dumbass.

      If I want something which is legal to have and I can't obtain it legally, there are times when I will use illegal means to get it. This doesn't mean that I won't buy it if it does become available through a legal means.

  3. Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by CashCarSTAR · · Score: 1

    There's a demand for anything retro, to be honest. Especially when we're dealing with things that you can't obtain anymore at all.

    How to reduce demand for emulators and Roms? You can't. Best to make some pocket change from it. Either release EVERYTHING old at a reasonable price, (maybe like an I-tunes model? 99 cents for a NES rom, 1.25 for a SNES rom, a flexible price for a MAME rom?), or don't even bother and just public domain it all, if it wouldn't be profitable.

    And before anyone suggests that I can check e-bay or a local game store and pick up used carts, I believe that in the big ethics scale of things, e-bay and used carts are lower on the ethics scale than just downloading it. (The best being ordering a shrinkwrapped copy directly from the producer/online, I.E Steam)

    1. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by karnal · · Score: 1

      The problem with charging any amount of money for things like ROMS, Movies, Games, Music etc. is that for the user who knows how to get these things for free, the price better be free or they won't use the service.

      I... have this friend who has all of the SNES roms ever made for the US... because the friend doesn't care about the japanese roms etc.... yea... so if Nintendo came back at this point and said "$1.25 per rom" to this ... friend... he'd probably just laugh.

      The horse is already out of the barn for my friend. However, for people who would pay to relive old times, this would be a steal for them too!

      --
      Karnal
    2. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by justkarl · · Score: 1

      There's a demand for anything retro, to be honest. Especially when we're dealing with things that you can't obtain anymore at all.


      I agree. How about stuff like my favorite, a translated version of Secret of Mana 2 for SNES? Can't get that at the used game shop. I like you idea about the "i-tunes model" of maybe paying a couple bucks for a game that came out decades ago. Unfortunately, I think that the "over-internet-ization" of things like this can be the downfall of local economy. So where's the handshake?

    3. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by realdpk · · Score: 1

      I have an interest in some of these ROMs, and I'd pay $1.25 per ROM if I could get them in an easy-to-use format. None of this "rar" or "zip" crap for files that can fit 10 to a floppy or whathaveyou. No .nfo files. Just pure ROM files that I can pop in to an emulator and play.

      I'd probably pay up to $3 or so.

      I sure wouldn't pay $20 for those GBA ported NES games I've seen at Fry's though.

    4. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by jal-vani · · Score: 1

      I'd love to pay Nintendo for old ROMs from NES, SNES, Gameboy, etc. What would be the best about something like this, is that the companies could build in into their consoled to allow for burned disks with ROMs to be played on the console or on the computer, like iTunes lets you burn iTMS purchased music to as many CDs as you want.

    5. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by PhotoJim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it's time that copyright laws were changed. There is a wealth of wonderful old ROMs, operating systems and software that cannot be had because it is impossible to get permission to use the code, but the owners almost universally don't care. The law should require registration to renew copyrights of computer software. If it isn't renewed on a certain schedule (10 years perhaps?), it becomes public domain (or at least legally freeware). This permits those with perservering need to renew their copyright, and permits all the rest of the code to become available to the world. It is a shame that people often have to resort to piracy to continue to use some of these old systems and the emulators that derive from them.

    6. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would actually pay for a reliable emulator with reliable ROMs. On several occasions I've poked around the net attempting to find a nice reliable emulator for SNES, 64, PS, and such and reliable ROMs. But there has always been either performance issues, why does the original Zelda lag on my 2.2ghz PC, or compatability issues.

    7. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      None of this "rar" or "zip" crap for files that can fit 10 to a floppy or whathaveyou. No .nfo files. Just pure ROM files that I can pop in to an emulator and play.

      Hey fuzznuts, most emulators play the rom straight from the .zip anyway. Unzipping the rom just wastes disk space.

    8. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would actually pay for a reliable emulator with reliable ROMs. On several occasions I've poked around the net attempting to find a nice reliable emulator for SNES, 64, PS, and such and reliable ROMs. But there has always been either performance issues, why does the original Zelda lag on my 2.2ghz PC, or compatability issues.

      Because you are a dipshit?

      http://www.zophar.net/

    9. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by DrSkwid · · Score: 1


      When I had my loft,
      Converted back into a loft,
      The neighbours came around and scoffed
      And called me retro.

      Time to see if anyone likes the same music as me .....

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    10. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by I(rispee_I(reme · · Score: 1

      It is possible that the grandparent meant "The Ocarina of Time" by "the original Zelda." In this case, lagging and stuttering might be possible, because N64 emulation is still not as well-done as, say, NES emulation.

      In any event, Ocarina of Time is not the original Zelda, and if you (yes, you, grandparent poster), did not know this, then you should educate yourself, because the best Zeldas are 2d.

    11. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by squall14716 · · Score: 0

      Well, I have 6766 SNES Roms, I believe that's just about all of them ever made. Only 9.83 GB uncompressed. ;)

    12. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      The law should require registration to renew copyrights of computer software. If it isn't renewed on a certain schedule (10 years perhaps?)

      Requiring copyrights to be periodically renewed sounds like a good idea, but would be unworkable in practice, for multiple reasons.

      So much copyrighted content is created every day that it'd be impossible to administer the system fairly (without spending excessive tax-dollars on government paper-shufflers). Every single thing you write is copyrighted. Every minorly different version of a game published is copyright separately... so what happens when a publisher renews on 4 of those versions, but not the Asian release that was recalled after 2 weeks for crashing USB drives? A small oversight, and now the product is out for free.

      No, renewable copyright registration doesn't work in a world where the initial registration is implicit (unless the renewal were somehow implicit too).

      Much simpler and better to merely cut the number of years copyright lasts from 97 down to 30 or less. There is no good reason for Nintendo to continue collecting profits on games written in 1981... it doesn't encourage them to write new games, and in fact discourages them from ongoing creativity (by providing an alternate revenue stream).

    13. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by PhotoJim · · Score: 1

      You make some good points. Even a 30-year copyright would help (although 20 or 25 would be better). I'd be in favour of allowing products in continued development to maintain copyright, but anything that is terminally developed should be let out for free.

    14. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buying games used is a worse action than pirating?
      Interesting opinion. Explanation, please?
      Especially in the case of still-existing companies.

    15. Re:Of course there's a demand for emulators.. by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      You not only get the game without any money going to the publisher/developer, you also pay with money you could have spent on new games instead. Of course, it's only worse from the view of the corporations, there's no law and no reason for one against it.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  4. About backups (the legal kind) by jvmatthe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I tried to read through this, but it is awfully dense. It'll have to wait for later. But, one thing that I'd like to see clarified is this, and I believe the paper refers to it somewhat, but not in these direct terms.

    Under certain situations you may make a copy of software you own. The copy is a backup copy, for use when the original fails.

    Now, there are two problems here. If I go to a ROM site and download a ROM of a game I own, then I didn't make the backup copy. Is it necessary that I make the backup copy myself?

    Second point is that the copy I made is for backup purposes. Even if you allow me that getting a backup copy from a ROM site is ok, then I cannot use it until my original fails. So emulation, while I still have an original working copy, appears to be prohibited.

    Furthermore, it isn't clear how I am permitted to use the copy if and when the original fails. Should I use the image to create a new ROM to use on the original hardware? Or can I use it with an emulator?

    Finally, suppose my original really does fail and that it is legal for me to use an emulator with the copy I made. Can I make a copy of the copy as a backup? That is, do all the rights granted to me with the original then get inherited by the backup? Or is the backup somehow a second-class copy, with limited permissions granted to me on how I use it?

    This doesn't just extend to cartridges, by the way. Think about copying your old Commodore 64 games off of 5.25" floppy into D64 format. Yes, it's a backup, but can you legally use it with an emulator?

    Lots of questions, and ones that I'd like to see cleared up.

    1. Re:About backups (the legal kind) by Goosey · · Score: 1

      If I go to a ROM site and download a ROM of a game I own, then I didn't make the backup copy. Is it necessary that I make the backup copy myself?
      AFAIK you do have to make it yourself. I understand the rule used to be you had to own the game, or delete the copy within 24hours. ROM sites posted that all over like it was bible. Then a few years ago that message dissapeared from everywhere. I am just making an informed guess.

      Second point is that the copy I made is for backup purposes. Even if you allow me that getting a backup copy from a ROM site is ok, then I cannot use it until my original fails. So emulation, while I still have an original working copy, appears to be prohibited.
      Emulation has legal uses, such as homebrew. Just check all the legal, public domain, homebrew games available at Zophar. Although I do realize you probably just mean 'Emulation of the backup', but the wording was a little off. ;)

      As for the rest of your questions, clear as mud here. Not even informed guesses on this side.

      --
      --- "End Of Line" - MCP
    2. Re:About backups (the legal kind) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AFAIK you do have to make it yourself.

      This is the received wisdom. Nintendo's line, on the other hand, is that the backup copy provision never applies to ROMs. Who's right? Nobody knows. Never been tested in court.

      Since one of the primary reasons you are given permission to copy software when necessary to run the program is that it's necessary to copy a PC program into memory in order to run it. A ROM doesn't have to be copied to be run. I imagine Nintendo's view is an extension of that line. Could be wrong though.

      I understand the rule used to be you had to own the game, or delete the copy within 24hours. ROM sites posted that all over like it was bible. Then a few years ago that message dissapeared from everywhere.

      Probably because they got a clue. This was never true; it was a pathetic attempt to sound legal.

      Nowadays most people accept that (a) downloading ROM images is technically illegal, and (b) most of the people downloading ROM images couldn't care less whether it's legal or not. So they don't bother pretending any more.

  5. Edit? by SkyWalk423 · · Score: 2, Informative
    From the article summary: "Ten years hence..."

    Don't they mean "Ten years thence..."?

    Hence = from now.

    Thence = from then.

    1. Re:Edit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All right then, Mr Smarty-Pants, which way is "yonder"?

    2. Re:Edit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a ray parallel to and originating at the end of a knotty, outstretched finger, attached to a body wearing a plaid shirt and denim overalls.

  6. Emulation is a godsend by MilenCent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My all-time favorite RPG series has got to be Grandia. It's MUCH better-written than Final Fantasy (and just about any other RPG I could name except maybe Earthbound), I like the music more, the characters are works of art, and the battle system is actually fun instead of a mere punishment factor against leveling up.

    Yet, my Playstation hasn't worked for years, and I went with Gamecube in the current generation, so no PS2 backwards compatibility for me. So I haven't actually been able to play the original Grandia in all that time.

    This is why I was so pleased to find out about ePSXe, a Playstation emulator that can play actual PSX disks inserted in a computer's hard drive. As time passes and the motors inside of optical drives break down, ultimately this will be the only way to play these old games.

    (Preemptive caveat: I know what the Sony guys have said, that the original PS format will live forever. My response is that no, it won't, there's no way in hell Sony will continue to allow themselves to be beholden to the original PS format forever, as the profit available for supporting then declines further and further they can and will abandon the old PS1 format someday, it's just a question of when.)

    Sony, of course, sued Bleem!, the commercial Playstation emulator, to smithereens. Yet ultimately I think this worked against them, because the net (and debatable) sales loss from piracy was probably less than the potential sales gain from letting people play Playstation games on their computer for $50 bucks, the price of the emulator, instead of $150 bucks, the then-price of the PSX.

    Interesting to note that now, five years later, I'm playing through Grandia on a free emulator instead.

    1. Re:Emulation is a godsend by BigJStudd · · Score: 1

      So you can insert Playstation disks into hard drives now? Dear God, is there anything Emulators can't accomplish?

    2. Re:Emulation is a godsend by chigun · · Score: 1

      Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter... Seriously though, how robust a system do I need to do this? Does it emulate every game you've tried perfectly or what? any lag? response time from usb controller alright?

      --
      swanker than you
    3. Re:Emulation is a godsend by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      What? (reading parent)

      D'oh!!

      I can't believe I said that. Should read, "inserted into your system's CD drive," of course.

      Looks like I need to spend a good couple of hours with my head in The Bucket for that one.

    4. Re:Emulation is a godsend by MilenCent · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bleem ran on quite modest hardware by today's standards, Pentium IIs and less than 500mhz, with minimum requirements being 200mhz.

      My own system runs Grandia from ePSXe very well. It's 1.5 ghz with 256mb of RAM, which is nowhere near top-of-the-line these days. If you've got something like that, or even a little less, you should be able to get it to work at full speed.

      Grandia's the only game I've played with it so far. I'll be giving Final Fantasy Anthology a try before long, as well as Parappa if I can find it. I've been playing with keyboard all this time, which isn't much of a problem with Grandia or most RPGs. I haven't noticed lag, but I haven't been playing with a USB controller.

      One of the problems with the emulator is that it has plugins for a wide variety of video cards, and you have to sort through them all to find the one for your system. You'll also have to get a CD plugin and a sound plugin for good sound. All these are free and downloadable, but it's a bit of work to get started. Most of these things have a barrelful of options and selections to make as well, which is good if you like to tinker, and bad if you're trying to figure out which of those dozens of settings is causing your game to freeze up after fifteen minutes of play.

      One thing you can do with ePSXe is use a program like ISOproducer to create ISOs of your Playstation disks, then play them off the ISOs. I'm starting to do this with Grandia in order to keep my originals in better shape, it's simply too wonderful a game to risk losing as the years go by.

      Ha! How many games can you say that about?

    5. Re:Emulation is a godsend by The+Other+White+Boy · · Score: 1

      thought i would mention about the usb controllers, since the previous poster/GP hadnt tried it.

      i use a dual shock plugged into a usb adapter that you can pick up at any gajillions of places, ncsx, lik-sang, even radioshacks have them sometimes. makes the dualshock show up as a HID, no software required. no lag at all, takes multiple button presses just fine unlike a keyboard.

      the adapters usually run like ten bucks and i couldnt recommend it more. its the only way to emulate psx (btw yes i'm actually using real discs, FFT, SOTN, Xenogears). it even works really well for snes emulation, since the button layout is pretty similar. as long as whatever program you're using lets you map joystick problems, it should do the trick for you.

    6. Re:Emulation is a godsend by agraupe · · Score: 1

      I still like my hardware PS2, because it can play PS2 games. Also... I wanted to play Final Fantasy VII on my computer, and the PC version was nigh-impossible to find (as well, I already had the PS version), but then epsxe was like "I like to take it up the ass, so I'm not gonna play your sounds correctly, and everything will be laggy and horrible, despite the fact that your modern Athlon XP system should be able to emulate an 8 year old system.", so I was like, "You really do take it up the ass. Thus, I shall not use you, for your controls are also horrible." The moral of the story is: emulators aren't as good as the real thing, even if they are cheaper.

    7. Re:Emulation is a godsend by Chemical · · Score: 1
      emulators aren't as good as the real thing, even if they are cheaper.

      I disagree. Emulators are often better than the real thing. Most emulators offer features like screen snaps, sound capture, save states, importing other peoples save ram, higher fidelity audio, higher resolution video, speed up/slow down functions, movie recoding, and a slew of other things that the original console did not have. It's true that ePSXe is rather hit or miss, and requires a lot of tweaking. Many games work great, a few work like crap. FFVII happens to be one that works like crap. Rememberer PSX is a lot more sophisticated than something like the NES :) The fact that it's 8 years old is irrelevant. As for the controller problem, I just bought me one of those PSX controller to USB adapters. Works perfectly.

    8. Re:Emulation is a godsend by Chemical · · Score: 1

      Some games work near perfect. Some games don't work worth a crap. Check out the ePSXe Compatibility List. Bear in mind that you may have to tweak plugin settings to get various games to run right. But there's lots of help available on their message boards.

    9. Re:Emulation is a godsend by Drantin · · Score: 1

      If you have the time I reccomend fiddling around with different plugins for video/sound and such. Also, if you have the money and/or patience, you can buy/build a psx->pc converter so you can plug your psx controllers in and use them in epsxe (not to mention using DDR pads in Stepmania if you get a converter that supports opposite axii (or whatever the plural of axis is...) concurrently...

      --
      Actio personalis moritur cum persona. (Dead men don't sue)
    10. Re:Emulation is a godsend by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Your system is probably faster than mine, but it runs great on my computer. Lots of problems with ePSXe can be solved by using the right plugins. For sound, I use Eternal SPU 1.41. Maybe it could help?

    11. Re:Emulation is a godsend by Reapy · · Score: 1

      Ahh xenogears... I'm having issues with that game curretnly.

      I had always wanted to play it, so I finally got it used somewhere, and had been playing through it off of my ps2. My ps1 is really old and the motor is pretty much shot and it periodically dies whenever it loads things. Xeno has a lot of instantces of that during cinimatics so it tends to crash.

      Anyway, I got up to a certain part with a long sequence where you couldn't save the game. It takes about 30 minutes to power through. Anyway, at one scene, the game freezes on me. Same on eeverytime. I played through the 30 min sequence to lock in the same place like 4 times. So much for the ps2's emulation.

      I pulled out the ps1. It crashed before it even got to the place the ps2 was crashing.

      I finally went online to find an emulator. Unfortunatly the one I tried didnt play xeno correctly. The opening in game cut scenes were coming up blank. I gave up in frustration and am waiting for a friend to pick up his old ps1 from his closet the next time he goes home.

      I'm going to try the emulator linked above though, maybe that one will work better.

    12. Re:Emulation is a godsend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Been able to run most PSX games very well on a PIII 1 Ghz, 512 MB RAM, Geforce 2 Fx. However, it does have problems with 2D games a bit (specifically Megaman X6), but tinkering with the graphics setting fixes almost all problems.

      Specifically for Grandia, I just recently finished it. The game is very playable, but the sound has problems (at least in 1.6.0, it apparently is better in 1.5.2).

    13. Re:Emulation is a godsend by chigun · · Score: 1

      Too bad brother. Xenogears is one of the best console RPG's of all time. Unlike those abominations that are glomming off it's name for the PS2 called Xenosaga.

      --
      swanker than you
  7. Emulation != Evil by sc0ttyb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm a personal fan of emulation. I love firing up an emulator and playing some of my favorite games of yesteryear.

    The thing I like most about emulators is that you can save an assload of shelf space and wear/tear on your consoles by just putting everything on your computer. It's the same kind of thing with ripping your CD collection to MP3 and storing the original media away in a safe place.

    The majority of emulation is done for older systems; ones that the manufacturers see no more income on. Same with the developers of the software. Those games went out of "print" years ago. The only sticking point is that some companies (like Nintendo, for instance) are re-releasing their older game libraries on newer systems as part of a "retro" line. The fact of the matter is that demand for these products wouldn't even exist if emulation never came to be. Emulation helps keep nostalgia alive. I know it helped me shell out money for the GBA port of Adventure of Link.

    I think that emulation is just misunderstood. It's the whole scissors-can-kill-as-well-as-cut-paper argument, just with games.

    --
    "Apparently so, but suppose you throw a coin enough times. Suppose one day, it lands on its edge."
    1. Re:Emulation != Evil by obeythefist · · Score: 1

      Actually.. most people are using emulation right now. Windows PC's build what is very similar to a virtual machine on top of the HAL, and run all the code through that. Any virtual machine is technically an emulator (although it's just emulating itself).

      This virtualisation allows the kernel to keep itself robust and safe from applications when they fall over. Also, with virtualisation, you gain the benefits of being able to run many tasks at the same time, and having the kernel manage the requests and allocate resources as needed. VMWare anyone?

      Emulation is an incredibly useful and powerful tool in modern computing. It just happens to be nice that you can create a virtual console on a PC (another indication that the money you pay for a PC really does get you more than something that just runs Windows and browses the web).

      --
      I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
  8. Emulators + cheating by vasqzr · · Score: 1


    Some games are very frustrating, even if you use codes.

    The best part of emulators is you can save the game state, then attempt the jump/kill the bad guy, and then die and start all over without having to play for an hour to get back where you were.

  9. Not just video game emulation by Xian97 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Last year my Yamaha DX7 music keyboard battery died. I didn't know it at the time but when the battery dies, all programmed sound patches and modes are erased, even the factory presets. No problem, I had made a backup years ago with DX Android on the Atari ST so I could just restore from those backups. I got the battery replaced but when I got the Atari ST out of the closet it would not boot. I guess I could have searched ebay for a replacement but instead I got the Atari ST emulator, STeem from http://www.atari.st/ and was able to restore the patches from the backups using it.

    I have emulators for most of the computers I had previously owned. I still have the software, just would not have a way to play them anymore if it wasn't for emulators. Some of the ones I use besides the Atari ST that I had previously mentioned are:
    Amiga http://www.winuae.net/
    Atari 800 http://www.concentric.net/~Twist/atari800win/
    DOS Games http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/
    Another Atari ST Emulator http://sourceforge.net/projects/winston/

  10. emulation is life by frankgod · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I spend most of my at home free time playing emulated games. In fact, I've organized my living room entertainment setup around it. With a digital connections between my souped-up computer and TV/sound system, the emulator is actually better than the original system in many respects.

    Emulation has brought so many other things as well, like translation patches for previously Japanese-only games. As an American, this is a must, as I can't even speak English that well. Would Square have released translated versions of older FFs if emulation hadn't shown there was a demand?

    I'm also involved in tool-assisted timeattacks, and of course the tool is the emulator. It's a very fascinating hobby for retro gamers like me. It's simply mindblowing to watch the original Legend of Zelda finished in under 25 mins, or a difficult game like Ninja Gaiden run through effortlessly. Recently, Dragon Warrior was finished in under 20 mins!

    So more on topic, I read some of the paper and was wondering how downloading any number of N64 games at this point in time hurts actual video game companies. No new games are being made or even sold, so the only ones losing money are the retail industry! Also, the figure they give computes to about $35 a game, a ludicrous price for all but a few N64 games. Of course they could point to Game Boy Advance which is actually losing money, since you can download the games and even play them on the actual system with a flash chip.

    I think the game companies are much, much more worried about copied games than emulation.

    1. Re:emulation is life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So more on topic, I read some of the paper and was wondering how downloading any number of N64 games at this point in time hurts actual video game companies. No new games are being made or even sold, so the only ones losing money are the retail industry!

      Allow me to mention something. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you here - I really don't know whether emulation hurts the publishers or not. But there is a question to be asked, and your answer to it determines whether your use of emulation is a problem.

      The question goes like this.

      Nintendo are currently selling parts of their NES and SNES back-catalogue on the GBA. Square have released translated versions of their older FFs on several consoles. This trend is likely to continue: Sony are probably going to be recycling a lot of PSX games on the PSP.

      Now, from what you say, I assume you've downloaded copies of at least some of these games. Have you bought them, or are you planning to? If you have/are, was emulation the thing that made you decide to pay for an older game? Conversely, if you haven't and aren't, is the main reason you don't want to pay that you've already got the game for free?

      A very important question, that.

      By the way, responding to another thing you said:

      Would Square have released translated versions of older FFs if emulation hadn't shown there was a demand?

      Remember the rumours in the late 90s that Square were planning to release FF5 for PC? Remember the rumours a year or so later that the reason they canned the project was that they figured RPGe's English patch, combined with perfect SNES emulation, would have killed off demand?

      I don't know if any of that was ever true, but it makes you think.

    2. Re:emulation is life by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      How about a URL of a tracker where we can download some torrents of these time attacks? I don't like to make 'em, but I like to watch 'em.

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    3. Re:emulation is life by Jagasian · · Score: 1

      Emulation is NOT better than the original system in many aspects. I emulate allot of systems on my Xbox, but if I had an option to go with the original system via a flash cart or backup system, then I would much rather use that than an emulator. Emulator often times fail to recreate the game that the designers intended. Colors are off, as well as aspect ratios, sounds, music, and even slight timing differences in gameplay.

      Many systems also don't have good controller adapters for using accessories on a PC. The N64 is the only exception, as it there is a USB device known as the "Adaptoid", which supports every N64 peripherial: controller, memory modules, force feedback modules, etc... The PS1 and PS2 come in second place, as they have some quality USB adapters which allow the use of a controller but not all peripherials.

      For the NES and SNES, there are no good USB adapters that support peripherials other than the game controllers. No Zapper or Super Scope support, no Power Pad support, no R.O.B. support, etc... You gotta go with the real thing for that. Personally, for he SNES, I use a Flash Cart, which lets me transfer games from my PC to a SNES cart which I can play on a real SNES with all of the standard peripherials. That beats ZSNES and SNES9x any day!

      Most emulator-gamers don't know these things because they never compare their emulator to the real thing, or have long since forgotten what the real thing is like.

      With regards to the NES, there will soon be a solution, as a guy is recreating the NES from the hardware logic gate level. Hence it will be a cycle-perfect recreation, yet will be able to play games from flash cards (MMC or Smart Media or something like that). It will also be able to use the original peripherials of the NES and Famicom (Jap NES). Depending on how you look at it, this new retro-console system can be viewed as a recreation or as an extremely low-level perfect and accurate emulation.

      My beaf is with inaccurate emulation. If it was perfect emulation that allowed use of native system peripherials, I would have no beaf.

      One last thing, that Legend of Zelda speed demo that has been floating around is crap. A buggy emulator was used to make it. I saw the guy not getting hurt by his own bomb exploisions and numerous other bugs. Pretty lame because those bugs don't exist on the real system... but then again, like I said, more and more people these days are starting to forget what the real game is like because all they know is the inaccurate emulation of it.

    4. Re:emulation is life by frankgod · · Score: 1

      bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos is the best tool-assisted run site. They have avis on bittorrent for all the published movies.

      I am known as TheAxeMan there and have a couple runs to my name.

    5. Re:emulation is life by frankgod · · Score: 1

      Ok, so I have to admit that the flash cartridge is a great idea. I'll have to keep up on that. The SNES produces nice output, but the NES has trouble keeping up with a good emulated setup. Many GBA games also work very well in a full screen format, so why would you want to squint at a little handheld?

      Don't know what Zelda run you saw, but I have never seen one (or any other speedrun) on an inaccurate emulator. There could be many reasons why it seems like the game is bugged. In fact, many games do have bugs which are exploited, but all are part of the game, not the emulator. There are some debatable ones, like the effects of pressing left+right simultaneously in some games (this produced an amazing run through Ninja Gaiden 2), but I don't think anything like that was used in Zelda. Also, sometimes different versions (U/J/E) behave differently, but I don't know if that is the case here.

      Here is where you'll find the latest version of the Zelda run and others.

  11. (some) People WANT to do the right thing by wbm6k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem with charging any amount of money for things like ROMS, Movies, Games, Music etc. is that for the user who knows how to get these things for free, the price better be free or they won't use the service.

    Because people would never pay for anything that they could find for free on the internet.

    What's that? iTunes has sold how many songs? Over a hundred million? Why don't those people just download them for free from kazaa?


    Seriously, though, there are a significant number of people who would be willing to pay a nominal fee (comparable to iTunes individual download prices) for convenient access to a good, playable copies of older games.

    1. Re:(some) People WANT to do the right thing by karnal · · Score: 1

      Of course there are.

      But how many hundreds of millions of ROMS would be sold?

      0.

      I guess that's why they're not rushing to market ROM sales. People who are technical and want to play the old days again already know how to get their nostalgic fix.....

      --
      Karnal
  12. Who the heck wrote this? by Dwedit · · Score: 1

    This thing is so full of mistakes and inaccuracies that it's laughable. For one thing, it implies that all emulators need a bios image to run software. Then it mentions someone called "MegaMan" on the UltraHLE team. The writer must not have known that the authors were Realityman and Epsilon?

    I haven't even finished reading yet.

    1. Re:Who the heck wrote this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the endnotes. The authors are a bunch of MBAs and grad students in business/management. There's nary a lawyer nor a technical type among them (I doubt that a "Clinical Professor of Technology" at the Kellogg School of Management even needs to know how to set the clock on his VCR)

  13. Emulators... not just for games... by Drantin · · Score: 1
    Emulators, which provide conversion software that enables games to run on personal computers ("PC's") and other systems or platforms for which they were not originally designed[...]

    You can find emulators for more than just games, many of them emulate old computers(such as basalisk, an emulator for older apple computers), or even just parts of hardware such as Daemon Tools (implements a virtual CD/DVD drive for win32 as well as some older copy protection such as SecuROM, etc. Something like mounting an iso under *nix, but a bit more advanced.)

    You can also find programs that "Is Not an Emulator" that enable one to play games among other applications such as WINE and its derivatives like Cedega and Crossover Office.

    You also find general purpose emulators that are mainly used for playing games, such as DOSBox. Another emulator that is often used for playing DOS games under WindowsNT-based systems is VDMSound (emulates the older ADLib(cap?) and SoundBlaster, MT32 Roland and like devices)

    Sorry for not providing any links, but it's getting fairly late here and I have to be up in 5 hours...

    --
    Actio personalis moritur cum persona. (Dead men don't sue)
  14. not very fond of this article by mushroom+blue · · Score: 1

    this article is flawed in several ways:

    for those that didn't read the whole thing, this is actually a legal whitepaper on how to subvert and take over the emulation scene. this paper shows very clearly how to close the loopholes in the law that make emulation legal. they lost with the DMCA, but they can get you using intellectual property law and copyright/trademark infringement. this whitepaper lays out exactly how.

    many of the facts in this article are completely wrong (Snes9x was released long after nlksnes, esnes, and Snes96. one example out of many), and a large part of the arguement is that the ability to make any sort of device to play something you own is a "gray area". the fact is you could MacGyver yourself an emulator out of safety pins, a car battery, and a potato if you wanted to. ownership of property allows you to do whatever you want with said property.

    issues aside, this is a good idea of what emulation fans are going to see in the next few years.

  15. Puff Puff! by sbszine · · Score: 1

    I'm also a big fan of the Grandia series, and I'm amazed that it's not more popular. As well as being witty and well written, it has the best combat system of any RPG I've played; it's fast paced but very deep indeed.

    Anyway, I find that when I play it on the PS2, the original Grandia hangs occasionally in the midst of battle. I've always suspected that this was either a memory leak or a disc streaming problem, which I imagine a PC-based emulator would be less prone to. So, do you get random hangs (e.g. climbing the wall towards the end of disc 1) with the emulator?

    --

    Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling

    1. Re:Puff Puff! by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      I'm working on a retrospective review of Grandia II (which may also cover the first game), and one of the points I'm trying to get across in it is the extremely high quality of the writing, much better than the likes of Final Fantasy or Tales of Symphonia. It's the best-written RPG I can name, with the possible exception of Earthbound/Mother 2. Grandia characters tend to have really well-defined, utterly charming personalities, and glorious amounts of text for them to shine through. And a lot of this text is hidden, at least in Grandia II -- players are rewarded, if not with items then with backstory and humor, for going back to old areas after major events happen, and when the party roster changes, and chatting everyone up again. In one memorable instance, in a dungeon early on in the game, one particular character joins right before the dungeon boss and leaves right after it. If the player is insane enough to, after the character joins but before fighting Mr. Grumpy, backtrack all the way out of the dungeon and wander around town, well wouldn't you know it, the writers actually wrote several conversations, many of them hilarious, for everyone in town specifically for that eventuality. That's what I call attention to detail, though of course you're free to come up with your own description. And yet, in G II at least, if you don't care for the story at all you can almost go from one combat area straight to the next. And the combat is so deep that, once you figure out exactly how to time attacks and customize your characters appropriately, you can actually complete entire dungeons, late in the game, without taking a single hitpoint of damage! You can even do this with some of the bosses. I never did get into Lunar (their most famous series), but the Grandia games have given me a lot of respect for Game Arts. Here's hoping we get Grandia III one of these days, and that there's nothing "Xtreme" about it. On the "End of the World" area: I'll be coming up on that area before long, shoot me out an email in a few days to remind me and I'll let you know if I encounter any freezes there.

    2. Re:Puff Puff! by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      (Sorry about the previous, run-on post, I accidently picked the wrong formatting option. This is the same thing, but with comprehensible line breaks.)

      I'm working on a retrospective review of Grandia II (which may also cover the first game), and one of the points I'm trying to get across in it is the extremely high quality of the writing, much better than the likes of Final Fantasy or Tales of Symphonia. It's the best-written RPG I can name, with the possible exception of Earthbound/Mother 2. Grandia characters tend to have really well-defined, utterly charming personalities, and glorious amounts of text for them to shine through. And a lot of this text is hidden, at least in Grandia II -- players are rewarded, if not with items then with backstory and humor, for going back to old areas after major events happen, and when the party roster changes, and chatting everyone up again.

      In one memorable instance, in a dungeon early on in the game, one particular character joins right before the dungeon boss and leaves right after it. If the player is insane enough to, after the character joins but before fighting Mr. Grumpy, backtrack all the way out of the dungeon and wander around town, well wouldn't you know it, the writers actually wrote several conversations, many of them hilarious, for everyone in town specifically for that eventuality. That's what I call attention to detail, though of course you're free to come up with your own description.

      And yet, in G II at least, if you don't care for the story at all you can almost go from one combat area straight to the next. And the combat is so deep that, once you figure out exactly how to time attacks and customize your characters appropriately, you can actually complete entire dungeons, late in the game, without taking a single hitpoint of damage! You can even do this with some of the bosses.

      I never did get into Lunar (their most famous series), but the Grandia games have given me a lot of respect for Game Arts. Here's hoping we get Grandia III one of these days, and that there's nothing "Xtreme" about it.

      On the "End of the World" area: I'll be coming up on that area before long, shoot me out an email in a few days to remind me and I'll let you know if I encounter any freezes there.

    3. Re:Puff Puff! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just finished Grandia using ePSXe. The only problem I had with the game is that the sound is not emulated properly. Supposedly this is more of a problem with version 1.6.0 than it is in 1.5.2.

      I'll admit that Grandia was a lot of fun, and the battle system was pretty cool and unique. My only problem is that I found the game too easy.

    4. Re:Puff Puff! by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Follow up on Grandia via emulation:

      I experienced no random crashes in the area in question, the "End of the World" area. I *did* experience some periodic sound-related crashes earlier, but it turns out those were due to a misconfiguration (using "Wave Mapper" as the sound output method is not a good idea).

  16. Loss? by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1
    This was

    1

    a very interesting
    1. Re:Loss? by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1

      Shit, I accidentally hit Reply too soon. Speaking of which, why doesn't /. have a "delete post" or something?

    2. Re:Loss? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit, I accidentally hit Reply too soon. Speaking of which, why doesn't /. have a "delete post" or something?

      Probably because there's a god-damned "Preview" button that you have to hit before you even get the chance to submit your scribbling.

    3. Re:Loss? by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1

      That's only when you're posting as an AC.

    4. Re:Loss? by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      why doesn't /. have a "delete post" or something?

      Because it would be dishonest. Rewriting the past is a trick of the Orwellian overlords. (Although I supposed it'd be OK to allow you to edit a post so long as nobody else had viewed it yet)

  17. I'd pay $35 for only one N64 Game..... by zarthrag · · Score: 1

    Zelda64: Ocarina of Time

    --
    Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
  18. The Future by kilauea · · Score: 1

    An interesting, if flawed, paper that at least stirs debate. A few points of my own....

    1. I'm pretty sure the industry will be building stuff in now to hold back emulation in the future, so it may just be that the current generation of consoles are the last emulated.

    2. To claim Nintendo are not making N64 roms available is not totally accurate. Although not yet distributed widely, it's I-Que console does just that today.

    3. Gaming on PC's sucks.

  19. One big issue with an "iRoms" by jonwil · · Score: 1

    or similar rom download site is all the instances where the rights are owned by too many people to make it fesable.

    Firstly, there may be the need to get permission from the manufacturer of the console or arcade board to relase it.
    Secondly, there may be items in the game that the company doesnt own (e.g. licenced games, BIOS roms, licenced code/art/sounds/etc)
    Thirdly, the company may not have something it can release. (whilst there is MAME + starroms, there are many reasons including piracy and loss of controll as to why most companies wouldnt want their games on sites like that)

  20. Bus width of systems by bjb · · Score: 1

    There is a chart in the article about bus width, speed and FLops of various consoles over the years. If I remember correctly, the Intellivision was a 16 bit bus, not 8 bit as stated. The chip, some sort of General Instruments processor, was in fact a 16 bit chip.

    --
    Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
  21. Everything breaks. by pragma_x · · Score: 1

    At some point, you need to use emulation to replace old equipment that simply dies on its own.

    I recenly procured a C64 w/disk drive and monitor and an Amiga complete with software. My hope was to replace my original C64 which is suffering from a bad SID chip (sound is terrible and paddles don't work correctly).

    Much to my horror, the 'new' C64 also had the same problem. So despite my efforts to procure used hardware to run my old software, I was cornered by a common flaw in the hardware itself.

    Everything breaks eventually. The drive motor in your play station will give out, your AtariST disk drives will stop spinning, and your Gravis Ultra Sound will decide to stop playing beautiful demo music. Even your old Atari and NES carts will eventually break down (it may take a long time).

    There are too many legitimate uses for emulation, that I cannot envision a future where corporations can continue to turn a blind eye to the consumer-market demand for such a thing.

    (Aside: the corporate market has existed for some time now)

  22. this article is sh!t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was written by lawyers to stir up the pot and incite RIAA/MPAA style action from the game industry. It's full of inaccuracies and falsehoods.

    N64 sales impact for example... based on today's P2P stats, but applied to a console which is now DEAD? Average price of N64 game = $39? I think a more accurate calculation would be to assume the average price of an N64 game is $10 USED since that's what games people would be buying. So money is lost not ffrom Nintendo, but from used game stores.

  23. I did CastleVania 1 with 1 life by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 1

    Its on MARP :)
    Well the 2nd half of Dracula got me, but that doesn't count :P
    Dragon Warrior in under 20 minutes sounds like a feat. I spent many many hours to beat that.
    I like the fact people can compete by posting their high scores on MARP. I like I can play games I couldn't afford back in the day. I like the fact theres a variety of games to pick from. I like the nostalgia, and the limits they had in making games for the time. I like alot about it. I got to go stretch my collection some more