Latest "iPod Killer" Takes Aim at the Mini

blamanj writes "ReignCom, has just released the iRiver H10, a 5GB MP3 player with 1.5" color screen and FM tuner. Currently available in Korea, the company plans a US release in January. The price is higher than Apple's iPod mini, but it does have extra features. iRiver has generally gotten good reviews for quality, as well." Update by J : We typoed that as "5MB" earlier, sorry.

Comments

Why is everything an iPod killer?

[seanadams.com]

This iRiver product is not quite as ridiculous as some of the other "iPod killers" which added video support for "only" 2x the price, size, weight, and power consumption, but why is it a "killer"?

Unless something can beat the iPod on value, the only thing that will kill it is market saturation, plain and simple.

Re:Why is everything an iPod killer?

[numark]

Frankly, I find the Zen Micro to be completely ugly. You're presented with the same problem when you're competing against Apple, who goes to great lengths and costs trying to find out exactly what people want to see. They capitalized on the customization feature of different iPod Mini colors, along with the sleek metallic design and click wheel. People are willing to pay more for the "wow" factor, not necessarily so with an FM tuner that few people would be likely to use.

Re:Why is everything an iPod killer?

[msimm]

Does it include a popular online retail music site built specifically for it? Does it have 'best of breed' management software integrated tightly with both the retail store and the hardware?

Trying to compete with the iPod is a tall order, there is the overall experience which isn't necessarily about built-in features or price.

And whats up with the chrome framing around the touch pad and the display screen? It makes it look like one of those miniature TV's from the 90's. Not something to aspire to. But its pretty hard to know what its like without actually holding it, the iPod has the looks, but it also has a feel thats pretty nice (not that I own one, but they let me touch it at my local Fry's...still).

Re:Why is everything an iPod killer?

[diamondsw]

I'll give you the battery life, but a difference of a gig (even though it's 25% larger) won't make or break a sale for most people. Likewise, the size difference is miniscule and won't make a difference either. A color screen - what the hell for? If we're comparing MP3 players, who cares? The iPod Mini has a wonderfully readable screen with a great backlight (far better than my old 2G iPod). And I'm sorry, but given the download numbers of the various stores, I can't accept the argument that WMA is such a plus.

No, what will will the H10 isn't any of these specs. What will kill it is the fact that in the consumer marketplace, the iPod is *the* thing to have, because everyone knows it works, it's "cool", and it's simple. The fact that the H10 is more expensive will seal its grave.

Come on guys, we've been over this a million times already. Until you have a product with a MAJOR advantage over the iPod, it's not going to make a dent. We've seen dozens and dozens of players that have this extra feature and that one, maybe a little less money, but nothing huge. One has an FM tuner, one plays more formats, one has 5GB, one shows photos, one costs a little less. Ultimately, these are nits compared to the sheer buzz of the iPod.

[Where Apple *is* extremely vulnerable is the iPod photo and the high-end - sales numbers are confirming that the iPod photo is a dud, and Apple's refusal to embrace video sounds an awful lot like their initial resistance to CD burners.]

Re:Why is everything an iPod killer?

[Babbster]

Wow. So you've managed to evaluate the software, feel - hell, the "overall experience" - of the iPod without even owning it. I'm sure that there are some shill review sites out there who would appreciate your skills.

You amuse me like those iPod owners amuse me when they say that my Nomad is hard to use, can't be navigated by touch, etc. - all this despite a) the fact that they've never used one and b) the fact that I use mine easily and navigate it by touch all the time (and, no, it didn't take me a week or a month or a year to do it).

Apple's true magic has a lot more to do with brainwashing through marketing than it does with creating "The Perfect Product."

Re:Why is everything an iPod killer?

[badasscat]

There's competition, albiet not much, out there, not to mention the 512 to 1 gig players out there. Most people have no need for 40 gigs in their pocket or they don't want to drop 249 or 299 for an iPod, which wont record line in nor do FM/AM.

I have about eight separate issues with each one of your statements here. I will cover only the most pertinent in the interests of readability.

First of all, nobody needs any mp3 player. I mean let's get a sense of perspective here - every single one of these things, from the lowest of the low-end 128MB flash player to the 60GB iPod, is a complete luxury item. 10 years ago, we all got by just fine with our portable CD players. 10 years before that, we got along fine with our cassette walkmen. 10 years before that, we got along fine with nothing. (Maybe a nice transistor radio or something, but that's about it.)

So the argument that people will or will not buy one of these players based on "need" is meaningless. People buy these players because they want them, and that's one thing Apple understands that their competitors don't. Apple makes people want a product that they have absolutely no need for, whereas their competitors are busy building the products they think their customers need.

(It reminds me of an old saying about art, and I'm not sure I've got it exactly right, but it goes something like, "True art isn't about giving people what they want; true art is about giving people something that they didn't know they wanted.")

And what's this about recording AM/FM radio?? Honestly, who buys an mp3 player for this? This is akin to photocopying your favorite novels at the local library so you can enjoy them later, in all their degraded, barely-readable glory. I mean Jesus Christ, just buy the stupid thing. Listening to the radio is one thing, and I can see that being somewhat useful... but when you're talking 40GB worth of music at your fingertips, in as good quality as you chose to make it in the first place, I don't think listening to the radio is really a product seller in this category. (Yeah yeah, people want to time-shift their talk shows or whatever... all six of you out there.)

I see a lot of 128-512 meg players out there and people don't at all seem to mind not having their entire collection on them at all times.

Apple's on track to sell four million iPods in one quarter. I actually doubt there have been four million flash-based players sold in total, throughout the history of flash-based players, by every single manufacturer combined.

Now, to add my $0.03 (my opinion's worth one cent more than most!) about this iRiver player, I mean, I have nothing against it, competition is good, etc. etc. But it's not gonna make a dent in iPod sales. Because for one, even the iPod Mini is a shadow of its big brother in terms of sales (read the article I linked earlier), so it's not even Apple's biggest market. But it's still a market they dominate. They dominate that market through a combination of things that add up to a total user experience - and a couple of extra features on a competing model is not going to do anything to change that. Because it's frankly just not about features.

I'm no big fan of Apple but I acknowledge that they have a certain understanding about basic human nature that very few other companies do. Their product design teams are not run by a bunch of MBA's and they do not design by committee. They actively looked for a new market segment with the iPod, they found it, and they defined it. Nobody's going to catch up to them by just dumping a few extra features or a couple more hours of battery life into their player. I mean that's the reality. This is Apple's market.

Re:Why is everything an iPod killer?

[nine-times]

And your arguments make you a marketing department's dream: you only raise points that are based on emotion: "overall experience", "aspire", "a feel thats pretty nice".

And you know what? That emotional appeal is what drives purchasing behavior. It's not all that unreasonable, either, when you think about it. If I'm carrying a device around all the time and using it every day, and I can use:

A) a device looks good, has a pleasant "overall experience", and generally makes me feel good, or...
B)device that's ugly, is painful to operate, and makes me feel like a schmo to carry it around, but has slightly better specs...

In that case, is it really so unreasonable to go with the pretty device?

Even geeks make purchases based on emotion. The only difference is they're driven by the emotional attachment to the idea of "powerful" rather than "pretty". Or they buy hard-to-use items to make themselves feel smart for being one of the elite who can use it. Or they specifically buy ugly devices so that they don't feel like "a mindless building block of consumerism."

So, I hope you understand that there are some marketers somewhere meeting about these iRiver devices, saying, "It's great. The mindless building blocks of consumerism that want to think they aren't mindless blocks of consumerism are eating our products up! They've fallen into our emotional appeal of being 'anti-iPod'."

Its 5 GIGAbytes

[mtrisk]

That should be 5GB, not 5MB, otherwise it wouldn't be much of an Ipod-mini killer. Speaking of which, can we stop calling every portable audio device that? If it's cool, it's cool. It brings more choice to the consumer. But why should the Ipod die? For some people it's what they want, for others it's not. Okay, buy a different player. Sheesh.

Re:Its 5 GIGAbytes

[Anonymous Coward]

But why should the Ipod die? For some people it's what they want, for others it's not.

You must be new here. It's not enough to just enjoy what you enjoy, and that's it. You must help to drive the makers of competing products into bankruptcy by convincing others who have chosen their preferred gadget/OS poorly to abandon it for yours. Failing that, you must crush them, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women (oh, wait, forget that last part. This is Slashdot, after all).

We don't do the 'live and let live' shit here, bub.

Bad Timing

[rel4x]

Is it just me, or does it seem like it would be a better idea to release this thing DURING the Christmas season, rather than directly after it? (you know, when everything else drops to clearance prices to ditch unsold Xmas stuff)

Re:Bad Timing

[fiddlesticks]

maybe they're, um, not actually going for the christian holiday thing, what with them being 65% non christian and the ones that are christian not using christmas as an excuse for just large-scale gift giving

so yeah, maybe it's just you.

Rip Off

[bedouin]

This player is $344, almost $100 more than the iPod mini. With educational pricing one can get an iPod mini for $229. People purchasing a mini iPod don't care about photo viewing, and there won't be much room for any once all your audio fills up the 5gb hard drive. Built-in radio? Every walkman I ever owned had pathetic radios that were essentially useless, not to mention radio itself is barely worth listening to nowadays.

Just another example of how Apple just 'gets it' and others attempt to add the kitchen sink and clutter to make up for their design inadequacies.

iPod-Killer List

[tirefire]

To be a certified iPod-killer, a new product must undergo rigorous tests and examinations. Specifically, it must meet these criteria: 1. Must be ugly as sin. 2. Must be a rectangular prism. 3. Must have a square display of the exact same size as the iPod. 4. Must incorporate a stupid button/barrel system instead a scroll wheel. 5. Must lie about battery life, giving figures that are for 48 k/sec files. 6. Must have an FM tuner, since people buy Mp3 players to listen to the radio, not their music files. I'm happy to say that this candidate meets most of these criteria easily (though it's not quite ugly enough), in addition to adding some of its own: -Useless color screen -Voice recording (since it's the same shape as a tape recorder)

iPod is to Apple as

[Macondo]

Walkman was to Sony. Many alternatives appeared to compete with the walkman but Sony is still counting the cash...

Radio Tuner

[Singwolf]

I really like the FM (and AM likely too) tuner feature. I haven't bought and iPod because of its lack on it.

Listening to music is fun and pleasant, but sometimes people want to hear something with less lyric and more up to date content (as for example the news).

Re:Radio Tuner

[xaotica]

Some ipod owners I know use software to automatically record NPR and other audio streams to mp3, then load it onto the ipod and listen during the day. Although that's not nearly as timely, I think it's still an interesting alternative.. particularly if the radio shows you're interested in are broadcast at odd hours of the day/evening.

Radio on minis

[nick_davison]

6. Must have an FM tuner, since people buy Mp3 players to listen to the radio, not their music files.

To be fair, a lot of people who buy the minis are buying them specifically for the gym. Most gyms also have TVs that are muted with their sound broadcast via FM for those with radios. A built in radio stops you looking like a complete nerd, having your MP3 player on one arm, radio on the other, graphing calculator in one pocket, cell phone on your hip, PDA in the other pocket and god knows how many pocket protectors.

Of course, it's an understandable mistake to make on /. as 1) we're all nerds and think that sounds cool and 2) what the hell is a gym anyway?

Which, I guess, is why I married a personal trainer/physical therapist and still bought her an iPod last week which I get to endlessly worship for it's unmatched UI design while never going anywhere near her beloved gym.

Re:Call me when iRiver starts supporting AAC

[TheOverlord]

check out iAudio. they have multi format players including flac and ogg.

More Pics from the Premier

[glamslam]

http://club.iriver.co.kr/freeboard/view.asp?Page=1 &SrchItem=&SrchString=&idx=172358

Scroll down for some real pictures of it in action.

Re:Ipod killer it is not

[SpookyFish]

Decades? Hardly. The iPod's life is short-lived without integration.. Within a few years, 5+g drives will be stuffed into cell phones and mp3 playback becomes a total commodity -- along with color screens, photo & video viewing, etc -- for (far) less $ than players today thanks to contract kickbacks.

Now, an Apple-Moto-iPod&Talk with a touch screen and virtual wheel, that'll take it forward.

I have not heard that yet.

[twitter]

Hear that sound? That's the iPod laughing itself to death.

So what sound does it make when you try to play an ogg file? The Iriver sounds great. How about the sound it makes when you try to upload your music to another computer for the 5th time? The Iriver does that without complaining, as far as I can tell. "Cool" That's the sound my wife made when I told her that some of the newer music players also acted like a photo album.

Think different? Nah, just think.

Re:I have not heard that yet.

[nordicfrost]

So what sound does it make when you try to play an ogg file?

Hey, Joe Consumer called. He left a message: "I have no idea what you are talking about and futher down the road, I don't care".

Not a flame, just the truth. There is very, very, very little use in adding support for something like 100 000 persons (including me) use on a regular basis.

And iriver sucks ass. I have tested a couple of them. They have bad interface, ugly design and flat sound. Uploads? My iPod does that. In several ways, in fact. Photo album? Sure thing.

Why do you hate the ipod

[eadint]

On three different news shows i saw segments that cover portable MP3 players none of them mentioned the ipod. it seems like every week therre is another ipod killer device out there, but still apple is selling so many of them they cant keep them in stock. maybe its the king of the hill syndrome or something stupid like that. the fact is that the ipod is not just a device, its a system. you can buy music load it onto you ipod from cd or the itunes store. the entire thing is designed so i can give it to my grandma without worrying about her having a hard time using it. that is what makes the ipod what it is. there will probably never be an ipod killer like there will never be an outlook killer, aplle hit the industry hard and set the standard and evry one else out there is trying to catch up but the ipod has something none of them ever will, coolness and mindshare.

Re:FM Tuner? So what?

[MrHanky]

I'm pretty sure that adapting the radio to Japan's FM range is even cheaper than including the radio in the first place. Also, I believe Clear Channel does not have a radio monopoly in Korea, which, if you read TFA, is the first country this gadget is marketed in. The same goes for the rest of the world, excluding USA (and Canada? I didn't know CC had monopoly there).

The primary market for iPods is the USA. When one company has a stronghold in a market with one product, you don't attack that with a product with equal features, you try to find a niche -- preferably a large one -- that the leading product fails in. For instance, by adding radio to an mp3 player. And voila! You just expanded the market to the parts of the world where they still have and want proper FM radio.

Re:None of these "killer" articles mention...

[meringuoid]

I actually much prefer the iRiver to the iPod as far as transferring stuff goes. Certainly iTunes will copy across all your music from PC to iPod, but it's an absolute nightmare doing it the other way round. iTunes seems to reorganise your collection into a bizarre, twisted file structure comprehensible to no human mind, while the iRiver machines just keep it the way it was on your PC. Easy to download, easy to upload... A major selling point, to me, is the ability to pirate enormous amounts of music to and from my friends via sneakernet (well, busnet, and occasionally carnet, but you know what I mean...)

Re:None of these "killer" articles mention...

[ratamacue]

What could be more effortless or straightforward than mount, ls, and cp? (Especially if you've been doing it for years.) Or select, copy and paste to removable device?

For at least some people, itunes is just redundant, and therefore not part of the "portable music equation".

Re:Ugly?

[numark]

Well, true, form has a big effect on consumer spending, but the iPod definitely has the substance that the average consumer wants. It plays MP3s and the iTMS's AAC files, which are really all that the average consumer needs. It integrates with iTunes and downloads everything as soon as it's plugged in, which is a plus when many people would have no idea how to load music files by click-and-drag or a proprietary program used only to load music. So, in short, Apple provides an easy-to-use product with all of the features the average consumer wants, and makes it look good to them at the same time.