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Coast Guard to Track Ships Using Buoys
nomrniceguy writes "The Coast Guard plans to use dozens of buoys off the U.S. coast to extend the reach of a security system that monitors large vessels heading in and out of ports. The buoys are intended to extend the network's reach -- the Guard now receives the automated data only when a vessel is within about 25 miles of a port. The floating transmitters will relay the information from hundreds of miles off shore, from the middle of Lake Superior and off coastlines from Alaska to Maine."
...train flocks of seagulls to crap all over the transmitters?
Not if the coast guard is using some sort of active detection system like radar. Plus the point is to spot the ships before they get close. This way we have 100 miles to intercept them instead of 25. Bananas or no, we'll know about it sooner.
I was under the impression that the US had spent billions of dollars seeding the north atlantic ocean with passive buoys and magnetic anomaly detectors (MAD) as a net to detect and triangulate soviet subs. This is cold war stuff that could perfectly be reused to counter new threats from terrorism, since it's been there and working for decades and, presumably, still in operation. So why deploy new ones?
Consider that this telemetry (or the lack of it) will be compared to all sorts of other data: expected traffic, freight schedules, communications from known friendlies... it contributes to larger pattern/abberation detection capacity.
And, as another poster indicates, radar and other surveilance will be looking, too. And ships seen out at those distances without the transponders will stick out like a sore thumb, and invite immediate (and armed) visits from the Coasties.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Let's just float CowbuoyNeal and see what he detects...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
This is great. I use buoy data all the time as it provides sea surface temperatures/ dewpoint information and is useful in meteorology.
This information can be found here
Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
Shipping (especially "supertankers" is a very attractive target for terrorists. The system is largely designed to protect the ships and their ports of call. It is an expensive proposition to install these bouys but it is far cheaper than what we did to protect shipping before. In WWII we used naval escorts to protect civilian shipping as it approached our ports. In today's money this would be prohibitivly expensive.
All it takes is a single terrorist with a small plane or a small boat laden with explosives. The USS Cole disaster would be a minor inconvenience in comparison to the economic and environmental disaster caused by a supertanker being blown apart in or near a U.S. port.
If the attack were cooridinated and a number of US ports were attacked in this manner at the same time, the consiquences to the American economy would be disasterous. It could make the importation of oil grind to a halt for long enough to cause oil prices to sky-rocket and our economy to suffer.
CowbuoyNeal is a float? Somehow I'd always pictured him as a char...
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Isn't 100 miles out considered 'international waters' ?
If it is the 100mil mark, that would mean its *none* of their damned business where my boat is..
Why keep up this slow encroachment in the name of 'security' and just tag everyone/everything and get it over with? This is getting out of hand.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
That means nothing. Navies and paramilitary forces all over the world patrol well outside thier tradiational 3 and 12 mile limits, and they have for hundreds of years.
The Russians fly Tu-95 and Tu-142 Bears, the Chinese fly thier knock-off of the Badger, we fly the P-3 Orion, the Brits fly Canberra and Nimrod's. Trickles down to to the smallest nations with patrol aircraft.
For decades NATO had a series of active and passive sensor networks across the GIUK (Greenland-Iceland-United Kingdom) gap to monitor Soviet shipping. There were similar arrays from Alaska to northern Japan.
Starting in 2000 all vessels over 300 tons were required to upgrade to Digital Selective Calling (DSC) radio equipment. This allows for better distress monitoring among other uses. At the same time all new marine VHF radio designs were required to be DSC enabled. There was a grandfather clause that allowed old designs to be produced until yesterday (Dec 31, 2004).
This means that when you go boating and (god forbid) something happens, very little knowhow is required to start an emergency response You just push a little button on your radio and your GPS coordinates are transmitted to all vessels around you, including the Coast Guard and all vessels over 300 tons.
You do need to register to obtain an MMSI number which will request your boat and personal information. This information is to be used in case of a Search and RESCUE which will hopefully not turn into a Search and RECOVERY. (the basic difference is if you need a medic or a coroner)
Yes there is a system that is similar using Emergency Position Indicating Radiobeacon or EPIRB
The use of weather monitoring buoys as transmition monitors is a logical step to help coordinate rescue efforts. Yes it is also "Big Brother" watching us. This does not mean that it will restrict the rights of how commerce occurs, and may even expedite trade by making customs less intense. The cargo will already be partially identified, so when the government officials show up they know what to expect.
As a final note, private not-for-hire vessels are not required to carry ANY electronic OR electrical devices by any government. Yes, running lights are required on most vessels at night, but oil lamps have worked for centuries.
Just my $.02
Phil
Laugh, it's good for you!
Lets go through the list of disasters we don't have on the east side of the state, nor have any risk of.
Volcano... See #2
I will admit though... we do live in fear of the day or former governor gets behind the wheel again.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
This information is already in the public domain because of a system known as AIS.
AIS consists of radio ID transponders which transmit the ID, status and destination of ocean going vessels.
A Google search will bring up much including sites which display the information graphically live for free.
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
Oh, Bouy.
Thank you!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
if you can do what you want in international waters, why can't they?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
nukes detonated underground or underwater yield disapionting results. The Blast of a nuke isn't generated by converting a mass explosives to a superheated gas like conventional explosives are, but is the result of the surrounding medium absorbing and re-radiating the initial gamma ray burst. Gamma rays have a color-temperature of about 35*10^7 degrees, each re-radiation reduces the color-temperature, the point where the color-temp is down to about 1200 is called the fire-ball.
So while, Water and Earth simply don't have enough gammma tranperency to generate a decent fireball or blast by nuclear standards, you wouldn't want to be next to one either. My guess is to attempt to generate a nuclear tsunami, I'd air-burst about 400M above the water and try for a strike-slip wave tsunami by used the shockwave to depres the water surface rather than going under water and attempting to lift the water.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Let's not turn this into buoys vs. gulls.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
I gather you didn't bother to read the quote before pasting it in. It starts off with, "To legally enter a U.S. port..." That means that once this is in place, ships without those transmitters won't be allowed to enter U.S. ports. I presume that any ship without the transmitter in working order will be turned away.
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1.The UN convention allows 200 miles EEZ. You are allowed to use some measures to enforce your rights within that if you have claimed that you will enforce the EEZ anyway. That is different from territorial waters.
2. Planning an attack on a coastal target by a vessel that is not registered to a country with which you are in a state of war can be easily fit into the definition of piracy without stretching it. That is sufficient grounds for any navy ship to request a stop and search of any civilian vessel regardless of either ship country of registration and the civilian vessel must comply even if outside territorial waters. Basically a suspected pirate (not a suspected terrorist) is a fair game anywhere anytime. The legal basis for this predates the UN (it goes back into the 19th century).
3. If they only follow the traffic they can put it even in international waters. In fact it becomes illegal only if it is in another country EEZ.
4. This is the first sane thing the US has done to do something about its own security. It is infinitely easier to put a Grad (or higher class) launcher on a ship and level a significant portion of Manhattan compared to hijacking a plane, doing a dirty bomb or any other lunatic plot.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
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International waters start at varying distances, historically they were the range at which a shore battery could potentially hit a ship at sea, so the range of that battery then, usually set at 3 nautical miles. Between 1945 and 1982, various countries declared limits from 3 miles, all the way out to 200 miles.
The Third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea was agreed in 1982 and set in force in 1994, and that limited full rights to 12 miles, and a further 24 miles for reasons of prevention of smuggling. At various points around the globe, territorial waters laws are overruled by various 'rights of passage', including military vessels, which are allowed to maintain stances in such areas that would be deemed illegal in normal territorial waters. Such zones include the Gibraltar Straits, where the territorial owner cannot bar transit access to a nation they are not at war with.
Exploration rights, or rights to exploit mineral deposits on teh sea bed, extend out to 200 miles for each coastal nation, and where these overlap, both nations have equal rights.
My understanding is countries have a 200Mi. zone of economic interest, and the system has a 100Mi zone.
Also all comercial aircraft are required to file a flight plan, and have transponders that integrate both into Air-Traffic control radars and military IFF, Interegator Friend or Foe, systems and nobody gets hissy over that..
I used to live right on the St Lawerence sea way ( 100ft South of the navigation light at the enterence to the St.Clair River from Lake Huron), and the rivers pilots were stationed 50 Ft. from my house and their radio trafic with river trafic control sounded almost identical to air control. When your pushing ships ranging in beam from 750 ft sea goer's to 1250 ft lakers you don't screw arround. A 100,000 tones of ship don't turn or stop on a dime and they don't share the same space any more than an a Airliner will so with both timing is critical.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Ships without that device won't be allowed in ports, so the first thing terrorists do is to install such a device.
And no, they won't declare their nuke in the freight papers...
The same (non-)effect could be achieved practically for free using satellites, so IMHO this is another case of "Look how we spend your tax dollars to improve our security!".
The paranoia is terrorizing me.
(1) The US claims 200 miles as the Economic Exclusion Zone. International Waters off the US Coast begin there. (2) The rules (by the way, there are rules that govern international waters and the High Seas) that govern salvage rights would not apply to a buoy because it is anchored to the sea floor. (3) We're not talking about international waters or something "adrift." (4) The "enterprising young person" that undertakes what you've suggested will have a serious problem dealing with one of these buoys in the first place. They are likely larger than any boat a "young person" could afford. Even if they could deal with the size, anchor, and chain and so on, the authorities would likely releave them of what we call their liberty. (5) Don't forget the USCG and the USN. The Captains know the rules and have the ability to enforce them.
Once the system has queried an approaching ship, it will either know the identity of the vessel, or the fact that it is attempting to conceal its identity (either by not responding to transponder queries or by spoofing the replies from a ship known to be elsewhere). In the second of these cases, the coast guard can intercept it. This system does not replace satellite coverage, it complements it.
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If I was of a certain mind and wanted to detontate my pet nuke how would I get it into position. I would not hijack a ship, to much effort and risk. I would load it into a container and hook up a pocket GPS to the trigger.
This is something that has concerned me for a while - starting when I was motoring past a port instalation with an enormous stack of COSCO containers during a period when the US and China were rattling sabers a bit.
In case you're not familiar with it, COSCO is the Chinese Overseas Shiping COrporation - which evolved out of the Chinese Red Army.
Even a small container can contain a BIG H-bomb. Most places such containers commonly go - ports, transportaion hubs, railroads, highways, population centers - qualify as targets.
They're big enough to contain a chemical device suitable for taking out a city. Biologicals take even less space, and could disperse an aerosol while in motion.
Or you chould ship whole divisions of soldiers and their equipment in such containers (with the ones containing people disguised as refrigerated food containers to keep them at the edges of stacks for access to air and get them delivered quickly) if you wanted to stage an invasion.
However, I hear that since 9/11 and the antiterrorist reaction, US customs is inspecting and sealing many of the containers at the ports of EMbarcation, and stopping and inspecting container ships about 25 miles offshore, once they're inside the "you can enforce your antismuggling laws" limit. (You can't open the containers on shipboard, of course. But you can detect radiologicals - especially neutron emitters - without unstacking them.)
I don't know how much they're covering. (It IS a government program, after all.) But at least they're aware of the issue and trying to do what they can about it.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
"When your pushing ships ranging in beam from 750 ft sea goer's to 1250 ft lakers you..."
No wonder it's so hard to navigate, they're going sideways.
"The US military is infamous for being trigger happy..."
No... The U.S. military is the most famous for being the most maligned by those who would rather appease and surrender. Just because they won't politely step out of the way of those who want to commit mass murder (Bosnia, Africa) like the blue-hats do, doesn't make them trigger happy. It makes them responsible when doing their job.
Nice try at your maligning attempt, though.
The Vatican announced that rumours of misuse of the buoy database is totally without merit...
Oh well, what the hell...
How long until they are replaced by floating indian boys?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The parent post is insightful! On 9/11, fewer than 4,000 people were killed. The tsunamis that hit this year have killed over 100,000. It shows just how impotent and insignificant the terrorists are.
I, for one, don't want to play into the hands of the terrorists by being afraid. It's asinine that senior citizens crippled from arthritus have to remove their shoes before boarding an airplane. It's disgraceful that U.S. citizens are being subjected to pat-down searches at airports with no probable cause. It's idiotic that we are giving up our essential liberties in the so-called "war on terror." Success to the terrorists wasn't measured in a body count. It's being measured every day in the way that America has become a frightened country.
Those who lost loved ones on 9/11 have my deepest sympathies, but we should not disgrace the memory of those who died by behaving like the terrified, paranoid people that the terrorists sought to make us.