TiVo to Go Released

SimCityHippy wrote to us with the news that TiVo has TiVo To Go. Right now, the To Go feature is supported only on Windows XP & Win2k; no word on whether the feature will be rolled out to OS X or WinME. It's also interesting to note that while they recommend Windows MP, VLC gets a nod as well.

Comments

What are you doing....

[wapanesechick]

Sir, do you have that project I asked for? Not quite.... What are you doing...... Nothing... Are you watching TV? This is what's going to happen in office everywhere!

What other products have this capability?

[duplo1]

I've been staring at my Scientific Atlantic DVR with the usb and firewire ports for a while just willing them to go live so I can transfer my shows.

Are there any products besides the Tivo that support transfering video over the network or perhaps via firewire/usb2?

Re:What other products have this capability?

[grung0r]

ReplayTV supports transfers over the network via DVarchive. The old 5000 ReplayTV series can share over the network nativly.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[AKnightCowboy]

Haven't you wondered why TiVo is getting so much press about this when ReplayTV already had these features?

Not at all. Especially on Slashdot, people seem to have blinders on that TiVo == DVR. They even use TiVo as a verb. I really don't understand it either since there are other alternatives to TiVo like ReplayTV or even free ones like MythTV. Why do people so vehemently defend TiVo even when they do stupid things like announce wanting to put commercials on while you fast forward and openly oppose copying the shows off your system in order to archive them? BTW, "Hacks" don't count, that functionality should be built into the system to let you copy the digital movie format off the hard drive and transfer it to your PC with little trouble.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[milkman_matt]

Especially on Slashdot, people seem to have blinders on that TiVo == DVR. They even use TiVo as a verb. I really don't understand it either since there are other alternatives to TiVo like ReplayTV or even free ones like MythTV. Why do people so vehemently defend TiVo

First off, I'll preface this with the fact that I went from cable, to DirecTV, to DirecTiVo, and back to cable, then finally to a cable supplied DVR. What i've found is that the TiVo DVRs have such a major following because they ARE -that much- better. My cable DVR is no more special than a f'ing VCR. You can record a particular show, or record it every time it shows on that channel. However it's not as simple as with TiVo where you say "season pass" then type in the first couple letters to find it, then you're done. On this DVR you actually need to go find a point where that show is playing on the channel you want it on, then hit record, then start assigning recordings. That is my most major gripe.

Secondly, the menuing system BLOWS on my new DVR. It's nowhere near as friendly as the TiVo's. I can't cite anything at the moment, as I gave my TiVo away since I couldn't get DirecTV anymore, but I do know that I'm nowhere near as comfortable with this menuing system as I was with the TiVo.

I also like how TiVo will record recommendations for you. I've found some really cool shows that way. I do miss that damned machine.. :~( I Think I'll need to just get a cable one.

BTW, "Hacks" don't count, that functionality should be built into the system to let you copy the digital movie format off the hard drive and transfer it to your PC with little trouble.

This is the cool part though, TiVo ENCOURAGES hacking. They've got a VERY strong community following and it seems like they actually encourage all of the little hacks and projects people work on. I've heard nothing but praise for the TiVo hacking community. I haven't had a chance to play with it myself, but again, my TiVo is gone. :(

TiVo is like the google of TV appliances, it's just really cool, really friendly, and doesn't offend anybody :) (well, except for the people who are going to reply saying that it offends them just to be argumentative ;P )

Obligatory product bashing

[Monoman]

Now we get to hear from all the folks that say Tivo sucks and how Myth and ??? is better. If you haven't actually used a Tivo for a week then you probably can't say.

The same goes for me I guess becuase I haven't spent any time with Myth of whatever else is out there. I just know that my Tivo works and it is simple enough for my parents to use it.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[Umrick]

Having both a Tivo Series 2 and a Myth TV box...

Out of the box, Tivo is much nicer. After pulling hair and much fighting, MythTV is a heck of a lot nicer. There was a lot of pain to get there though, definately not for the faint of heart.

The main thing I learned in the process is don't overcomplicate. A PVR-250 is a fine card to use, the PVR-350 is just more features to pull out hair over.

TV Listings are a pain though. I have Direcway satellite as nothing else is available. The satellite receiver does some strange proxying. Because of that, my MythTV TV listings must be fetched via a ssh tunnel to a tinyproxy box at the office, otherwise it just fails.

If you have time, and patience, the MythTV solution is much more satisfying, otherwise Tivo is probably a better bet.

In our house, both are used. When Tivo finally dies though, it'll be replaced by MythTV.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[enrico_suave]

tivo doesn't suck (and yes I have/use one).

But they are getting a little to cozy with the content providers and advertisers for my taste, hence why I also use a homebrew PVR so that the "man" can't tell me how long I can keep six feet under "taped" or whether or not I can backup Sopranos to DVD.

=P

with that said, I'm eager to see how well TivoToGo works as it does address one of my major annoyances with TiVo STB (vs homebrew PVR/Myth boxen) -- content portability.

e.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[iamacat]

Yes, but how do you justify paying $13/month for just a program guide which is free on tv.yahoo.com or your cable provider's site? Or keeping a landline for TiVo to use when you probably already have broadband and a cell phone? Also don't you sometimes want to send a VCD of your favourite episode to a friend?

If MythTV is too complicated to setup, just get the cheapest Windows PC and use whatever PVR program comes with the TV tuner. Might want to throw in a wireless keyboard+trackpad.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[wizbit]

Same situation here - Series 2 TiVo and a nice orphaned Windows PC-turned-MythTV box give me some experience with both.

I find myself hardly using the TiVo these days. I've moved all the "season pass" show schedules over to the Myth box. Originally got going with Myth because it would let me play my assortment of DivX movie files and let me record/watch tv simultaneously with a second tuner card, and the level of control linux/myth give me is keeping me on it.

One oddity - the best way to share video in multiple rooms with myth seems to be to NFS a huge volume with your recorded video. I remember Tivo's multi-room viewing gave you a combined list of programs and, when requesting one from another Tivo unit, simply downloaded the program to the one requesting the video and played it when ready. It'd be nice if I had each frontend contribute storage to the other frontends without having to build a huge storage machine and worry about it frying one night and losing all my saved programs.

Anyway.

I agree that the 350 is more needless hair-pulling for most, but if you're setting up separate backend/frontend boxen, a 350 is a nice one-card solution for watching TV on a cheap-o linux machine. Then again, so is a motherboard with on-board TV-out and ethernet.

My main concern right now (and one of the reasons I've not dumped another grand into building a nicer backend machine and some frontends around the house) is Myth is currently only useful for analog cable. The HDTV cards out there can only receive OTA signals (unencrypted) and the future of cable TV seems to be cable company-provided receivers w/ PVR capability that aren't easily controlled from a PC. Sure, there's some work being done for the firewire ports on some of the newer receivers, and you can usually get an IRblaster going or something to control the unit, but, bye-bye multiple recordings to my backend, and so on.

Myth could use some polish (I still like the satisfying little beeps and blurps when I use the Tivo) but I'm surprised at how much it does already. KnoppMyth is making strides to lower the learning curve for new setups. DVD burning still takes some hard work, but it's getting easier, and MythDVD has built-in background ripping/transcoding. Cool add-ons like MythPhone and mfe are fun to play with and could become more useful soon. And the Hauppauge cards are just wonderful - kudos and much thanks to Chris Kennedy and the IvyTV community for supporting this hardware so diligently. I'll be a Myth user for a long time if I can get an acceptable HD solution working with it.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[Octagon Most]

"Yes, but how do you justify paying $13/month for just a program guide which is free on tv.yahoo.com or your cable provider's site?"

I justify the TiVo monthly service expense for the convenience. It's fairly easy to understand if you start from the premise that you and I place different values on nearly everything - Starbucks coffee, restaurant meals, cars, mortgages, computers, etc. But mostly for me it's about valuing time and convenience. Although I am technically capable of doing so, I have no desire to assemble, configure, and maintain a homebrew PVR system. My wife and seven year old son can operate the TiVo. That has value to me as well. And a free programming guide from Yahoo, or printed weekly in the newspaper, does not compare to the simplicity of a few clicks to keep the TiVo full of fresh episodes of the Magic Treehouse and SpongeBob.

"Or keeping a landline for TiVo to use when you probably already have broadband and a cell phone?"

I plugged a USB 802.11b adapter into the TiVo and it utilizes my wireless network. That enables TiVo to stream photos and music from iPhoto and iTunes which the aforementioned wife enjoys. Her happiness = my happiness. And not messing up the most basic home entertainment needs trumps my geek impulses.

"If MythTV is too complicated to setup, just get the cheapest Windows PC and use whatever PVR program comes with the TV tuner. Might want to throw in a wireless keyboard+trackpad."

What's exciting to you is frightening to me. I'd rather pay the $13 a month. But I am glad that options exist so we can all benefit.

as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[Anonymous Coward]

upload bandwidth, we still can't watch our favorite programs remotely. Perhaps tivo2go will create enough demand for increased to change their tune.

burning to dvd...

[mobiux]

I have a feeling that the burning to dvd option will be a big thing. Big as in a desired feature and as a big problem with the studios.

People pay big money for full seasons of thier favorite shows.

If anyone can just set their tivo, and spend 5 minutes a week burning it to dvd, the studios may take issues with that.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Wordsmith]

The fact that this is even a point of concern shows that we've been conditioned to accept new norms for IP.

Burning to DVD is a problem for the studios? Yes. They'll certainly fight for DRM or other limitations. But why should it be this way? For years and years everyone KNEW they had a right to videotape whatever they pleased for their own personal collections. Many fans of shows videotaped every episode, and kept a complete personal archive. In what way is it different to do this with a Tivo and DVD than it is with a videotape? Hell, leave out the middleman - there are plenty of DVD recorder decks now available for consumers, and they work more or less like VCRs.

But we've gotten to a point where we assume that just because the studios have found a business model, anything that rips into it is fair game for litigation. And the studios might win such litigation. And that's just sad.

Re:burning to dvd...

[mrterrysilver]

the average person doesn't have the time or know-how to tivo all their shows, transfer them to their pc, and burn them all to dvds. lets face it, that's not a trival thing to 90% of people out there. so basically it boils down to most people will throw down ~$30 to buy a dvd season thats already made for them... and it even comes with a pretty box with dvd menus, extras and all.

the bad part is even though the entertainment industry realizes this fact, they still want to cripple any capabilites which are perfectly legal under fair-use laws. right now geeks are the only people that will use these capabilities, loading up their portable devices with media and watching episodes of seinfeld and ali g on the subway.... but in the future that will likely change and unfortunately the mass population won't realize until then that the entertainment industry has stolen all of their fair use rights

Re:burning to dvd...

[Kjella]

But why should it be this way? For years and years everyone KNEW they had a right to videotape whatever they pleased for their own personal collections. Many fans of shows videotaped every episode, and kept a complete personal archive.

Knew as in "this is a legal right" or "we'll just do it anyway" as is the case with current P2P networks? I'm sure you're about to quote me Sony vs Universal (aka the Betamax case), but it found that time-shifting was a fair use. It did not explicitly deal with personal libraries, but one would be a temporary copy, the other permanent. That would be an additional factor weighing against fair use, and the Betamax case was a narrow (5-4) win to begin with. In addition, timeshifting was believed to increase the market by including people who could not see it at the original broadcast time, while it is clear that creating a personal library reduces the market for selling permanent copies.

Kjella

Re:burning to dvd...

[LordKronos]

The difference, according to the studios, is that you can make a one-for-one copy of the original. With VHS recording, you got a copy that was a poor replication of the original, and would inevitably degrade. With Tivo to DVD recording, this degradation does not occur.


No, the degredation doesn't occur in the TiVo->DVD stage. It occurs in the original->broadcast and the broadcast->TiVo stages. And it's a HUGE difference. I TiVo'd the Deep Space Nine series last year, and then I missed an episode and borrowed the DVD from a friend. HUGE difference in quality.

Re:burning to dvd...

[jedidiah]

I would say: Don't try to squeeze blood from a turnip. Stop trying to make an ass out of yourself and antagonize future customers. Realize that pirated copies do not infact equate to sales that would have otherwise occured.

That's exactly what I say/think when EA whines about piracy of titles that have MY name on them.

Rampant piracy is not what distinguishes the 50K title from the 5M one, lameness is.

Anyone in the industry has sufficient information that this should be painfully obvious.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Wordsmith]

No, it was because the VCR allowed for substantial non-infringing uses ... just like tivo+tivo2go+dvd does. There's no infringement in keeping your own personal copy of data the content providers sent you over the air or over cable lines. You can even edit the content - remove the commercials or create your own version of the Phantom Edit. Just don't redistribute it - that's copyright infringement.

And this stands true whether we're talking about perfect digital reproductions (which we're usually not with over the air and cable recordings, but as HDTV and digital cable become more common, maybe we will be eventually). The principle isn't dictated by the quality of the recording, or how long you expect to keep it, or the ease of redistribution. Keeping your own personal copy is ALWAYS ok. Redistributing it without permission is ALWAYS infringement. That's the distinction made when the courts talk about fair use copies.

After all, even in the pre-everything-is-digital age, you could still create a remarkably good copy with a high-end video deck and good cables/components to reduce line noise. And you could sell them for a few bucks on the street. It wouldn't be legal, and infringers were often punished/sued, but the tech was there.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Rude Turnip]

"I would say: Don't try to squeeze blood from a turnip."

Because it hurts like a bitch!

I've had this forever

[Bruha]

If you know anything about Linux and drivers you can enable the features on your DirectTvio.

Sorry I always forget the regular SA Tivo's have this enabled but DirectTV wont turn these features on for people.
tivocommunity.com has plenty of links in the forums to enable features that are locked on DirectTivo's but they're not for the faint of heart.

Re:Copying Details?

[Wordsmith]

Hit a link. That "special codec" is mpeg-2, and this will work just fine if you have something like powerdvd installed.

Mac version on the way

[Audiophyle]

On the TiVoToGo FAQ:

Are TiVoToGo(TM) transfers available for Apple Macintosh computers? At this time TiVoToGo transfers are not available for Apple Macintosh computers. TiVo is working hard to enable TiVoToGo features available on TiVo Desktop for Mac. We are currently working on ways to enable playback on Apple Macintosh computers. We will let our customers know in our newsletter as soon as this feature is available.

If they support VLC...

[Eggplant62]

Then it should be dead simple to get it to work under Linux. The Linux VLC port is nearly flawless, and I love the idea of streaming video on a home network where if I don't want to hang on the couch with the laptop while doing school work or stuff for work at home, I can still watch some tube or just simply listen to the audio portion.

Re:If they support VLC...

[13Echo]

Alternately, it shouldn't take too long for MPlayer to support the TiVo codec. From there, it's just a matter of "mplayer -vo yuv4mpeg -ao pcm YourFavoriteTVShowHere.tvo" to a fifo and encode to your favorite "open" format. Looks like it uses a simple MPEG2 codec (without any DRM?), so it very well could very well already work with ffmpeg/libavcodec. Probably doesn't even need to be transcoded.

All I can say is SWEET!

no tivotogo for direct tv subscribers

[dingosatemybaby]

i just spent 30 minutes reading through all the material on tivo's website about this, drool dribbling down my face happily as I gleefully rub my hands together in evil scientist fashion...only to find in the end that Direct TV subscribers cant use this in the tivo units that come with the service. i saw a post by someone about linux drivers and enabling features but a quick perusal of that shows that for the average-non-linux-guru human, that is a SWAMP. ...must...control...fist..of...death

the fine print (from tivo.com)

[DiscoRaj]

*Note: Not all shows may be eligible for transfer from your TiVo box to your computer. Programming providers may restrict or limit the ability to record, display, view or transfer any particular program using a variety of copy protection mechanisms.

Re:the fine print (from tivo.com)

[will_die]

It will be interesting to see how good this is.
I think the easiest way to disable would be to create a manual recording starting a few mins before the show you want starts, then using the record extra time you could start at the regular time.
Then for assurance of if the program changes time create a regular scheduled show but place the priority so manual recording is ahead.
You would get the info for the first show, which is the only problem.

Re:Good, but just not meant for us

[spectrokid]

Quoting my __ex-__ roommate: "Whoever will bring a TV set here can choose: me or him."

I guess you did choose?

Re:file format? drm?

[Anonymous Coward]

The file format is a .tivo file extension. The new Tivo Desktop checks for a valid MPEG-2 decoder so I assume the video is still MPEG-2 but with some DRM protection as well.

Tivo provides you with a "Media Access Key" for decoding the video as well as requires a password for viewing the video on your laptop/PC.

Sonic will be providing the DVD burning functionality in the next few weeks which sounds like it will be just like the current Tivo/DVD-R combo devices on the market. You'll have a standard DVD playable in any device with the Tivo menu for navigation.

Re:To go?

[Duvs]

TivoToGo is a feature that allows Tivo subscribers to transfer recorded content from their Tivo devices (Series2 only) to their PC/laptop for viewing and/or burning to DVD. At this time the transfer is only one-way (Tivo -> PC), there is not current ability to archive to PC, then put back on the Tivo for viewing later.

Re:confused

[dazzla_2000]

I'd say non-Americans. It's an American phrase and even though I've been living in the US for a few years it caught me off guard.

So is world peace.

[ChaosMt]

This answer reminds me of a politician promising to deliver world peace without making any specific measurable promise. In other words, don't count on it any time soon. TivoToGo was promised a year ago to be release a half year ago. If I remember right, the rumor sites were saying the mac side of it was a problem not because apple wasn't cooperative, but because the OS doesn't have the DRM built in as deeply. This issue is a big problem for Tivo. Tivo has a much greater share of mac users than the general population. They're taunting 1/3 of their customer base.

Re:file format? drm?

[The Only Druid]

The parent is right, but I can provide more info:

You're getting a direct copy of the file that was originally on the Tivo (mux'd into a single file, though). The file is encrypted based on a key in the actual tivo. This key is unique to each tivo. The 'media access key' essentially allows the PC to decrypt the video on the fly, just like the Tivo does.

Its worth noting that one of the first things you do when your hack your Series 2 Tivo is to disable this encryption (the community has a variety of methods for this, including hex-patching the actual TivoApp) to make this key zero.

A couple of weeks??

[pikapp767]

According to http://www.tivoblog.com/ this update could take several weeks to be deployed. Hopefully it doesn't take that long.

Bah software rollout!!!!!

[da1duc]

From Tivo:

Please note: Due to the large number of customers who are eligible for this software release, it will take several weeks for you to receive the software after you put in your request. Your patience is appreciated. You can check that you have received the update by confirming that your DVR is reporting software version "7.1x" in your System Information screen. You will also receive a message on your TiVo box once the new software has been installed. For more information about using the TiVoToGo feature, visit www.tivo.com/togo and our Customer Support site. Thank you for using the TiVo Service! TiVo Customer Support

This should have been something they were rolling out a long time ago. Wish they had a way for us to find out when this was going to happen. I was just about to do my New Year's clean up on my Tivo. Duc

ReplayTV it seemed we barely knew you.

[Eclypser]

I guess it's time to consider the replay 5xxx series dead now. Tivo finally has everything that made replay special. With no new developments on the horizon from Replay I guess it's time to say R.I.P.
Replay TV 5xxx series 2003-2004

P.S. May you be reborn in a 6xxx series with support for viewing ALL media formats available on your network. Including documents.

Re:Ok, what should I buy now...

[enrico_suave]

"Here's what I want - I want to be able to watch Tivo recorded programs elsewhere besides the family room. I figure here are my options:"

"Build MythTV box. Not gonna happen in my house, as I could never get away with having a noisy server sitting in the entertainment center..."

You don't *have* to put the "media center server" in the same room as the TV... you can use thin clients over a wired network like MediaMVP (quasi how to "thrifty pvr" article on my site)

People use modd'ed xboxes as the front end of their mythTV/other media/PVR backend.

That's just one approach... there's a couple others that are worth investigating.

e.

Re:Binary Size Means Everything

[cbackas]

The Mac version is a shim that exports your existing iTunes playlists and iPhoto Albums, while advertising the computer to the TiVo (over Renvezvous/ZeroConf) Since it merely uses existing subsystems on the Mac, it doesn't have much to do. On Windows, they have to provide a much more extensive UI for file selection etc.

Re:WMP Requirement?

[dn15]

But notice under the requirements section (as was mentioned in the article summary) it supports VLC for playback. And I doubt VLC has support for whatever DRM system they'd potentially use.

Or are you talking about something else that I overlooked?...

Other new software features?

[ischorr]

I notice my series 2 Tivo is running version 4.0b, and the Tivo-to-Go software is installed in version 7.

I guess they just started rolling out the updates, and when I signed up on the "priority upgrade list" to get the upgrade sooner, I'm told that it may still be weeks.

Has anyone else gotten the newer software? Is there anything else new? I remember the version 3 to version 4 upgrade as being pretty big, perhaps going up 3 major revs will be better (I'm expecting versions 5 and 6 were just for different hardware than I have, though)?

If they do nothing else but eliminate some of the raw *wait time* when I'm managing the box ("Please Wait - this may take a minute" usually takes me anywhere from one to 10 minutes??), I'll be a happy camper.

Mac support is coming...

[eltoozero]

...when Jobs is announces a new firmware for iPod Photo to enable video playback with TiVo To Go support Jan 11 at Macworld, can't you read between the lines?

So much for Apple needing sellable MPAA content to justify a cool feature without getting sued.

iPod TV

I need to start my own rumors site.

Congratulations Tivo! Only took 4 years to copy

[skintigh2]

what ReplayTV does for free.

How Tivo makes news:
1) ReplayTV releases feature for free using free, built-in hardware
2) Many years pass
3) Tivo copies feature and charges extra for the hardware and adds a monthly fee
4) News!

Smelly Nerds with Time to Kill...

[bwoodring]

can afford to use MythTV. For those of us who like using our entertainment devices instead of maintaining them, there is TiVo.

Re:Congratulations Tivo! Only took 4 years to copy

[bwoodring]

I don't know about how long ReplayTV has had this feature, but I do know that TiVO isn't charging extra for hardware or software to use TiVoToGo. It's a free feature that comes with normal service.

Re:Any sign of CableCard Tivo's?

[Moofie]

"FWIW beside OTA ATSC you won't be seeing non-directTV stb HDTV tivo standalones if they DONT start doing cablecard or other route which could be fatal, eventually, imho."

Page fault. Acronym overload. Paint your screen blue and reboot your computer.