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Cybernetic Prosthetics for Amputees
A. J. Perkins writes "Returning amputees from Iraq are getting computer-driven artifical limbs allowing greater balance and mobility. These futuristic limbs have hydraulic pumps visible through its clear plastic shell. They are loaded with an on-board CPU and rechargable batteries. The Utah3 Arm, which allows simultaneous motion in the elbow, hand and wrist, offering movement old prosthetics could not. These are coupled with the SensorSpeedHand, which has electronic sensors in the fingertips that make it easier to grip objects. The C-Leg monitors motion 50 times per second to assist with balance."
Will this come in time to save us from the terrible secret of space?
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.
For people in the industry this is OLD news ... the CLeg has been around for ages.
t em.asp?id=140
... news should be new.
http://www.ottobockus.com/about/press_room_view_i
Many alternatives from different companies exist for the CLeg.
The myoelectric stuff is at least cool, but the CLeg?
Come on
Ouch
I admit it would prolly be considered poor form, but it would be nice if I could replace my four limbs with prosthetics, then they wouldn't be so pisspoor excuses for arms and legs and wouldn't be so sore so often, my legs especially. Besides, my feet are shot to shit. Please don't ask me to explain.
Moll.
What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
So the C-Leg helps with balance 50 times per second, eh?
Sounds like the C-Leg might be a good replacement for someone who already lost their sea legs.
Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all night...
This is good news, but you know, it doesn't put a smile on my face. If there were a story here entitled "Thousands of kids didn't lose their leg in the first place" that would make me smile.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
As with many military innovations, it will be interesting to see the future of computerized limbs when they reach the civilian population. I've met a few people with prosthetics, and devices like this would certainly help them. Despite views on war, this can only help.
The Utah3 Arm, which allows simultaneous motion in the elbow, hand and wrist, offering movement old prosthetics could not
Woohoo! Now I won't need that other battery operated prosthetic device.
I wonder if these things also make that ch-ch-ch-ch-ch noise when I bend things or jump over stuff...
Indy Media Watch-Proctologist of the Internet
hegot 2 prosthetics, a manual version and this computer version. he is using the simple clamp prosthetic 'cause the computerized version breaks too often and the batteries dont last long. The one he actually uses just has a cord that goes to his shoulder, when he wants the clamp to open, he just flexes his arm a certain way. He put his computerized arm in the closet after it keept running down..
If the soldier wants to remain in active service, and can physically perform to Army standards, and can pass a medical review board, then yes.
But only if the soldier wants to stay in.
Arr! The laws of physics be a harsh mistress!
Forty two? :)
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Now that miscellaneous events have succeeded in pushing the war to the back pages, with the occasional unfortunate flare-up, it's good to see stories about all the good things that war is bringing us. Freedom is on the hobble!
Everybody's a libertarian 'till their neighbour's becomes a crack house.
These improvements allow amputees improved mobility over the Vietnam era, with many limbless veterans already contemplating running, skiing, and even a return to combat, according to veterans officials.
Apparently some want to go back, I would guess the US would send them back.
Do the limbs run Linux?
:->
If so...can you imagine a cluster of those!?
Not sure I'd want Microsoft controlling my body parts though.
People could mistake you for having epilepsy due to its constant rebooting.
I can see that the technology of prosthetics is slowly catching up to 80's cartoon terminology.
--"It's Bradford Company, slash your last name, dot your first name"
I'm sorry, were you talking about the accidental civilian casualties of the Coalition? Or the very deliberate amputation victims of Saddam Hussein, mercifully no longer a problem.
Video of Saddam's limb-choppers
But let's not turn a technical discussion of prosthetics into cheap political pointscoring eh?
Indy Media Watch-Proctologist of the Internet
Sarge: Son did you just shoot yourself in the foot?
Simmons: Yeah...I do that now sometimes. I don't really know why.
Sarge: I'm sure it's user error.
- Red vs. Blue Season 2, Episode 38.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Yeah, parent was a troll, and yeah, this is off topic, but seeing as how I'm sitting here in Baghdad, I just want to point something out:
Nobody here who actually picks up a rifle and goes out looking for bad guys is doing it for anything other than the guys fighting beside him. Don't get yourself all worked up about how we've been duped, and lied to, etc. etc.
We know the score. We know what the real reasons for the war are. There isn't much blind flag-waving Bush-terbation here. But we don't have a choice about when and where we fight; we just have a job to do, and lives to save and take in doing it.
We don't want your pity, and we don't want you using us as martyrs in your protests against the government. We want you to leave us alone to do our jobs, and have some respect for those poor bastards who come home minus an arm or a leg or a hand.
Arr! The laws of physics be a harsh mistress!
There are 2 types of diabetes Type 1 which is sometimes also refered to as juvenile diabetes and usually strikes children. My step-son came down with it when he was 3 and it's not because he was fat slob who sat on his ass all day eating candy. Translated it wasn't preventable.
I get so sick and tired if ignorant people whining about their wimpy little Type 2 diabetes and worrying about the possibility of having to give themselves injections. My step son has been doing that for years (actually he's on an insulin pump now which is a wonderful thing). Plus the type 2 people like to try to swap war stories with my stepson (he's now 19). His body produces 0 insulin and was a real treat to deal with through puberty.
I also have an Uncle who was one of te most fit and active people I know... he came down with Type 2 diabetes when he was 60.
So let's not be spreading this "wholly preventable" FUD as it's not true in all cases.
Join the Army and Win a Chance to Become a Cyborg!
How long do you think it will it take before they run an advert like that?
They already do their best to recruit Counter-Strike players
on Gamespy! (I am not kidding!)
Anthony
--
Bellua Cyber Security Asia 2005
21-22 March - The Workshops - 23-24 March - The Conference
Mod me down as flamebait or a troll if you want, so be it, slashdot karma isn't worth glorifying the mess our great nation has ended up in due to the arrogance of a small group of people in Washington.
iRooster, the Mac OS X a
I know there are a lot of people out there into the whole preservation-of-life thing, so I'm going to pitch an idea here.
For the longest time we've had unmanned air vehicles, and airplanes autonomously taking off and landing.
Instead of having our own soldiers getting blown up themselves up in Humvees and on foot with mindfields and heralding better prosthetics, why not retrofit some Asimos with killing capabilities and send them instead of human soldiers?
Make sure you watch Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex Series 1st gig (26 episodes) and 2nd gig (17 episodes and still running)
You can grab them using bittorrent. The subtitles made by the Laughing Man are excellent (the licensed versions of most Japanese anime suck.)
Same thing for GiTS 2, Innocense... even if you bought the DVD you should try to find the fansubs (subtitles).
--
Bellua Cyber Security Asia 2005
21-22 March - The Workshops - 23-24 March - The Conference
I bet that he would rather have his leg back.
SealBeater
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
You get your leg amputated after your second tour, get an artifical leg, do rehab, then...get sent back to Iraq for tour #3?
Hopefully soldiers returning to combat after amputation have volunteered to do so. Imagine getting sent back again involunarily after losing a leg.
These soldiers deserve the best gear and care we can give them. Tragically they're not getting it, especially critical after-care, follow-ups, meds, counseling, etc. Clinics and a few hospitals are closing, and new soliders are having many medical benefits phased out because their incomes are judged to be "too high." We're not talking Generals here, we're talking folks that make under $40k a year.
Take a look at the unclassified stats for WIAs (pdf).
India has developed cheaper alternatives years back..
http://www.jaipurfoot.org/
- dhawal
Sorry for the outburst. Please moderate offtopic.
No sig for you!!
The civilian casualties... and I'll stop if you will.
The problem with decent people joining the Army is the possibiltiy that they will be given jobs that a decent person would find extremely disturbing to perform.
Although this certainly isn't the first time that has been true.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST
> Instead of having our own soldiers getting blown up themselves up in Humvees and on foot with mindfields and heralding better prosthetics, why not retrofit some Asimos with killing capabilities and send them instead of human soldiers?
Or <StarTrek>just simulate the war on a computer and have the designated casualties report to the disintegration center.</StarTrek>
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Last time the military provided artifical limbs, we all know what happened.
I mean, obviously there are some sensory and control issues to be worked out, but why shouldn't someone who lost their arm be able to get one that is 5 times stronger? Or that has other enhancements like a computer interface (or an mp3 player/camera! JOKING!!!)?
What I'm basically asking about is, why simply settle for replacement when we have the technology for IMPROVEMENT?
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Anybody else thinking "starship troopers" here?
On a more serious note, the proportion of the US population that must've been affected by this war by now is scary. I wonder when it'll end - will we get Vietnam 2.0, or will they manage to resolve things (hopefully NOT by killing everybody who disagrees with them) before it gets to that?
That's what I read at first.
I bet they cost an arm and a leg.
The ______ Agenda
It might be cool to have, instead of a wheelchair or prosthetic legs, a Segway-like 2-wheel thing.
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
How many sanity points do those amputees have left ?
A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
You beat me to it. So I'll just say: Me too!
Does anyone know what type of architecture these prosthetic limbs run on? Is it ARM?
Yeah.. I couldn't help myself.
Man, this joke is just SO lame!
I know this is /. and we have some traditions to respect, but...
With all these talented /. contributers around, you'd have thought this crappy joke would have died an unpleasant death by now and been replaced by something slightly more witty!
Likewise 'In Soviet Russia...'!
I am bald
Perhaps next?
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Just conjecturing about why only the Iraqi amputees get this cool stuff.
fifth sigma, inc.
But you can't, so play safe!
Yes, it is bad that soldiers are being wounded at all. That is the nature of war however, and it is a mark of Americas worth that we are at least outfitting those unfortunate recipients of major battle wounds with the best limb replacements available.
We have the technology. We can make them better, at least compared to a peg leg.
I know you didn't support the war, but I'm sure you at least endorse outfitting these cats with the best limb replacements possible. Please stop confusing administrative policy with effective re-couperative therapy for those carrying out said policy.
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
If you know you've been lied to and still continue, you're pretty much a criminal.
Well, if it doesn't lift the torso up too high to full-body standing height (after all, wheelchairs don't), the center of gravity would be lower than a typical person on a standard Segway (less leverage to counterbalance, etc).
Without legs, a person's mass would be substantially reduced.
If the person is lifted above where the feet would go on a standard Segway, there would be more space for batteries as well...
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
No, the joke is fine. The problem is just idiots who use it when it's not funny...
So... war is a job?
I'm struggling for an answer here. The death of Iraqi civilians in this war roughly equals the deaths brought by the Indian Ocean tsunami. Any serious analysis of the "real reasons" for this war inevitably comes back to oil and money.
And people who find this war looking remarkably like a war of conquest and colonialisation, who find that loss of life and limb is better prevented at source rather than with gee-whiz technologies... we're told to shut up and let the soldiers get on with their "jobs"?
I'm full of respect for professional soldiers who risk their lives to protect civilian populations from the tyranny of oppression.
But you, sir, you are part of the oppression, and job or not, you are responsible for your acts.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
All I can say, is shame on this administration.
Now please, don't get me wrong. We in the field are enjoying the publicy and the chance to show off the advancements of the past fews years. And yes, the advancements in prosthetics technology are slow due to funding and lack of research. But what I'm more concerned about is the need for people like me in this war.
Honestly, when this war began many of us in the industry recieved notices about new patients arriving in as new amputees and we were being asked to write manuals for surgery procedures that are archaic! And endorse the use of out-dated concepts.
It's appauling the way these troops are being handled. They are not recieving optimal surgeries such as the ERTL procedure. Nor are they all recieving C-legs and Utah-arms. Do you have any idea how much these costs?! No. Not every solider will be getting one and if they did, watch your insurance rates skyrocket. It's just not realistic.
All I'm saying is that, thank you for the publicity but you are being lied to. This is not what is honestly happening at clinics. This is a poster pin up to make you feel better about the war and the injuries.
humanoid mechs can't navigate terrain, recognize threats, and move as fast as human soldiers *yet*. the best most cost efficient mech that can be made with todays technology would be something similar to those 1st generation terminators in T3. not too wide, can take lots of shots before failure, can carry bigass guns to inflict crazy damage. those things, if made right, would be nearly perfect for urban warfare. send it in, have a human controller view what it's seeing, if an enemy shows up, rotate and angle the miniguns to clear out an area.
"Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
I bet it is only a matter of time before these things are as good or better then the real thing. Do you think we will ever reach a time where the only way they will let you out of the army is if you die or finish your time? So that a loss of limb might only mean a quick stay at an army hospital and right back to combat.
just because your a schizophrenic doesn't mean people arn't really out to get you
Now if i loose a limb during year two of Iraq (lets hope not). I can at least mod the shit out of it w/ some LEDs and maybe even OC the chip and add a liquid cooling system... [cries] I could look like my pc.
My sausage tree didn't grow, does that make me a bad mommy?
Maybe around 6 million dollars?
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
"Hand, pick up the ball! Pick up the ball!" *WHACK*
And of course, the question, do they give out prosthetic foreheads?
Like what I said? You might like my music
We should start a contest for the best spoof
of those Army flash adverts on Game Spy.
It would be really interesting... I am ready to buy an Ipod mini
for the winner and host the web site.
We're talking women and children here not volunteer soldiers. It could be anyone you know anywhere any time. It could be you.
Some how we seem to be managing pretty well, so how does Iraq suddenly become "scary" when it's smaller by a factor of 50?
Really people get a clue and some sense of perspective.
And for the record we are not killing everybody that disagrees with us, just most of them.
Battle damage only happens to equipment ;)
Why is that poor form? How else can you fight against Dr Claw?
You sir are ignorant.
First off, the research like that is so far off and uneralistic at the moment. So let's deal in reality shall we? We can not use items that do not exist and are still in experimental stages. We must deal in what is available and practical.
Secondly, most of these prostheses are not discarded. Where did you pull that from? It is a known fact that most people who BECOME amputees use their artifical devices EXCEPT for upper extremity users. Upper extremity users are unique and advancements have not met up to their standards. The ones who don't usually use limbs are congenital patients who find it easier to function with what they have had since BIRTH!
Thirdly, these "disgarded" limbs are often send to Limbs For Life who helps supply prosthetics internationally to people who can not afford devices.
And lastly, straps and buckles are a majority, a thing of the past. Suspension sleeves and silicone fitted sockets have eliminated the need for them, except as I said previously, with upper extremity patients, amateur athletes and geriatrics.
Next time you talk about something, please educate yourself first.
Whoa. That's rather unfair, I think. The rank-and-file are, by international law, protected from any criminal charges unless implicated in specific criminal acts. While the Iraq war is, like most wars, a grotesque criminal enterprise, soldiers fight out of a sense of self-preservation and loyalty to their friends, regardless of nationality. And rest assured that the people who orchestrated this debacle will never be brought to justice before any earthly court.
"OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
Just doing a little ranting here but to be honest with myself, I'm just plain dissapointed at the slow progress of technology when there isn't a major (i.e. WWII) conflict that threatens the livelihood of every individual on the planet. Seems like there's so much red tape, PC, and over-zealous religious figures to go through these days to get enough things done. I'm dissapointed at how seemingly little progress artificial limbs have made in the past 40 years. Is going from a wooden arm to a plastic arm with an electronic clamp such a great leap in 40 years time? Oh just blowing off some steam on slow technological progress, thats all.
While these developments are quite good, I think the best would be biological replacements. Is there any development in that area?
On the other hand, I wonder if these replacements have any use in making the wearer of it stronger than with the (original) biological component.
see a Text Widget
Oh yes, I went there. :P
"You scratched the paintwork! That was new last month!"
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
These futuristic limbs have hydraulic pumps visible through its clear plastic shell.
Kinda gives new meaning to the word skinning, doesn't it?
Thanks, I'll be here all week...
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
From TFA: "I think I killed over 20 people," he said. "You could see them, through your scope, 40 meters away, get hit by your bullet. Later in the day you thought, wow, I just killed someone. But it's not like they're innocent."
Instead of an artificial leg, they should have given him a new brain.
Yes, call me a troll, or say I'm OT. But I can't stand these abused sentences any more. You killed somebody, for heaven's sake! It's not like YOU are innocent at all. And you thought "wow"?
World isn't UT2004, ya' know.
42.
Do they have computer driven strap-on's yet?
(didn't RTFA)
(also, spell "strap on" backwards)
What do the children in Iraq get for their missing limbs?
I'd love to have taken over Iraq with bouquets of flowers and heart-shaped greeting cards, but they just lack real stopping power.
Arr! The laws of physics be a harsh mistress!
"The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives." Winston Churchill
Laptop Reviews
Can't we strap all these things to a notebook computer, mount some fake tits, insert a copy of _In the Zone_, and each have our own eBritney to shake for us?
--
make install -not war
I just hope to whichever god you subscribe to that the people who are supposed to benefit from all this, the Iraqis, come out better in the next few months, despite the best efforts of their misguided and murderous "insurgents".
I'm supposed to be heading over there in a few months. I'm not too excited, but oh well. I don't care how good prostetics get, if it has to come down to it, they better just kill my ass.
Several years ago, an acquaintance with an electric wheel chair sought my help in 'noise hardening' his chair. In areas with lots of A/C line noise, generators, motors, etc., his chair would go beserk. We never had any success. The manufacturer refused to acknowledge any problem. Do these prosthetic limbs have the same potential problem?
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
Here's a link to the website of the company that makes the Utah Arm 3: http://www.utaharm.com/products.htm.
This is good news, but you know, it doesn't put a smile on my face. If there were a story here entitled "Thousands of kids didn't lose their leg in the first place" that would make me smile.
Boy do I have news for you!
Cheer up: Billions of kids didn't loose ANY limbs at all!
In the united states alone, hundreds of millions of kids didn't loose their legs during the 20th century! Hazzah!
But for those that did, this is reason to smile.
You can't take the sky from me...
especially if you have a cluster of legs.
It'd be like something of Spriderman's "Doc" character.
When you've removed the loss associated with war from the equation, what's to stop a country from going to war as a first response, instead of when all other responses are exhausted? (and please, no political commentary on the current situation, I'm speaking generally)
Trust me, if we didn't have the superior forces and technology that allow us to fight as we do, we'd be far less likely to be in Iraq at all - no American wants us to go through the trench warfare of WWI or the jungle combat of Vietnam again. When war hurts, it's far less likely to take place. As is - we've been at war for over a year, and I don't know a single casualty personally. I'm not being callous, I'm just pointing out that a nation accepts war more easily if the perceived loss is smaller.
They already do their best to recruit Counter-Strike players on Gamespy! (I am not kidding!)
So we'll have an army of guys trying to bunny hop across the battlefield, and getting shot up because they ran out into the middle of an open area to retrieve an RPG dropped by the enemy? Johnny's dying words? "See you in three minutes, sarge".
Freedom: "I won't!"
that the rest of the ten or twenty or fifty thousand casualties to be coming from Iraq (and Iran, and Syria, and Saudi Arabia, and North Korea) will all be able to look like Arnold...
Wonder if any of these devices are available to the hundred thousand Iraqi civilian casualties...or the million more to come...
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Oh yeah?
Your point was that there could be a technological devellopment that would prevent amputations?
Not in our lifetimes I'm affraid.
That no technological advancements are worthy of attention bar those that are full-on miracles?
Go live in a cave.
Since YOU missed my point:
Mice dont go away, so we build better mouse traps.
Or:
Stop raining on the enhanced prosthesis parade; it's a step up. We shouldn't hold out for the giant leap.
P.S. trying not to sound too harsh, failing.
You can't take the sky from me...
Genetic discovery is also evolving very fast and I wont be surprise that it will be easier to inject ourselves a DNA enhancer that will augment our muscular performances, boost our immunization and healing capacities, give us some "bath like" radar vision and really enlarge some part of the human body by some 3 to 6 inches. Of course you all understood I was talking about the brain. ;)
Even if still scary, I think those kind of tweaking are better than to turn people into "Borgs/Robocops/Inspectors Gadgets". Still, I think you point is valid for some enhancement. In my opinion hardware tweaking that could be useful is maybe a brain data port ala Matrix so we can comunicate and learn almost instantly.
Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
BTW, you can see the overall casualty counts (wounds and deaths separately) at globalsecurity.org. (Notice the running-average plots at the bottom, which show the trends.)
Anyone know where to get an RSS feed or similar machine readable counts of this? How about Iraqi casualties? I would like to see such statistics as widely published as possible.
9 hours and no jokes about ARM processors?
I'm suprised and disappointed...
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
Read this as 'Cybernetic Prostitutes for Amputees"?
Non tam praeclarum est scire Latine, quam turpe nescire
-- Cicero
I'v already seen this kind of things months ago. There's a video http://www.victhom.com/en/jambe.htm of Victhom's leg using, I think, the same kind of techs and which is quite impressive. It looks like some sci-fi movie clip but hey, it's real!
Your comment regarding road deaths is entirely appropriate, and in fact an argument I tend to use myself in other contexts (such as when people whine about "oh, the terrorists!" or the "terrible danger" of flying.).
/know/ getting his face shot off."
In other words, good point.
I guess my point was merely that the war has become surprisingly big and is having an impact on the US, at least as I see it from an outside perspective, that looks quite significant. I've heard comments from folks over there to the effect of "it's no longer just 'some other bugger', it's the guy you
As for killing people, in fairness the US is mostly only killing people who disagree with them by shooting them and blowing them up, not just those that dissent. The number of people getting killed on the sidelines over in Iraq is scary though... when bombing buildings and fighting for control of cities, a lot of folks are going to get killed who were just in the wrong place.
I am worried by the way the US does seem to be getting well into torturing people who disagree with them or were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, though.
For the record, I'm Australian, so my country is following along with what the US is doing like a puppy. I can hardly stand aside and claim it's not my fault or my problem (much as I wish our PM had not taken the side he did).
Note: I am not the original poster, just someone who thinks you have really screwed up morals backed up by little else other than convienient stereotypes.
p ants-book-learning-immigrant can also learn to recognise, confront and unmask "evil". As for silence against acts of "evil" that do not involve the US (that leaves out Saddam and the gas), you will have to do better than name calling and projection to stop me pointing out the "log in YOUR eye".
"You've grown up in some nice little suburb insulated from the true evil that exists in the world. Never in your life have you had to face real evil, or even a reflection of it, and you've let it's abscence skew your idea of what evil is....Oh, but the US kills someone who was too fucking near a hideout of scum when it was bombed
An Afgan refugee when asked her opinion about the N.A. taking over from the Taliban said "The Taliban shoot first then ask questions. The N.A. ask questions then drop bombs. Nothing will change."
No matter how many "terrorist acts" someone has performed. Why is it anything but "evil" to drop a 500lb bomb on a house/cafe, or shoot a hellfire missile into an apartment building that is the suspected hideout of an accused evil-dooer? If by those standards you find it justifiable, then it is also justifiable to drop a similar bomb on Timothy McVeigh's house or the farm at Waco or the nut with the sniper rifle or the local crack house or...get the idea. I suppose if YOU happened to live next door (and survived the blast) you would stoicaly burry the recognisable bits of your family without complaint. Because of your special knowlage of "evil", you do nothing (even if you could). The suspected scum were vapourised so you can take pride that your family died honorably (and very messily) in service of your country, god, democracy, whatever -ism you belive is worth the lives and limbs of people who were "too fucking near a hideout of scum ", ie: your family become instant martyrs and you are proud but saddened by it. War itself is evil (be it for your favorite God/Country or simple theft) and many who participate in it (or happen to be too fucking close) are both victims and instruments of the evil.
"the type" - Three times in one paragraph. Exactly how do you spot "the type"? Do they have 666 on thier foreheads?
"hyper-clean mom's", "malicious microbes"-Sounds like an LSD trip,or is it just the demon voices in your head.
"Fuck you, and everything you stand for. If the world was left for the likes of you to run, we'd be overrun by 7th centurary barbarians in no time. "
Fuck you and all your tin-soldiers, your moral system is nothing more than zenophobic parinoia, it has had millenia to run the planet and has produced nothing but destruction and misery for the vast majority of humanity. Apart from ideological details, how is your attitude less "barbaric" than a 7th Century warrior pillaging villages, a 20th Century German fighting the "plague of jews", a 21st Century Zionist sniper picking off schoolkids, a group of religious zealots with a jumbo, anyone else who wants to change the world by blowing it up. These people (yourself included) only have respect for thier self-serving ideologies and they judge and execute others based on thier ever morphing morals of conveniance.
"The hallmark of modern liberalism is the inability to acknowledge, much less confront, actual evil."
I've heard that line before...hmm, lets do a google search. Well, surrrprise, surrrprise, it's GWB himself. At least give him credit for the hate he has been spreading, rather than stealing it for yourself.
Since I won't swallow your neo-con dogma, you probably consider me a "liberal". If I am indeed a "liberal", then this post demonstrates that an old-fat-white-athiest-liberal-tree-hugging-fancy-
Bad shit happens, it turns into "evil" shit when people with integrity are taught to accept it as a commitment to honorable duty.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Stupid? You know what's stupid? You, particularly when my cock is bouncing on your forehead.
Wow, it must take a GENIUS to come up with some reparte like that! lol!
you're such an obtuse cock licker
you're too stupid
you can eat more cum than anyone else
you keep guzzling that spunk
Hahaha, oh how your words sting!
Ah... it's good to laugh on a monday morning.
You can't take the sky from me...
So what does the news report? Not that we are finally devoting the resourses to help these people fight their own fight, but that the CIA and the US Military are creating Iragi death squads to kill dissidents. Which is totally off in left field.
More or less the news in the US is not much better than entertainment. Their target audience is pretty much the same waste of human space that pull over at major traffic accidents to take picutes or in hopes of seeing a dead body.
The actual impact in most people's lives is negligable, maybe not for those in the Army and their families, but they represent a very tiny portion of the population. Other than what news flashes up once in a while it's pretty much a dead topic and most people don't even pay much attention to it anymore. Though of course if you believe the hype on the news you'd think 49% of the population wants the President's head on a stake and are out in the streets daily screaming for it. That's so far from the truth that it's pathetic. Right now most of the media is getting it's ass run through the grinder publicly for all the false articles and stories they ran during the election. They have very little credibility at the moment.
The torture thing well yeah we dropped the ball on that one, but if it's any consolation, people do not have fun in military prison and those that will be convicted for their cruelty and stupidity will be enjoying some hard labor for the next decade or two.
The casualty count in Iraq is very sad, but at the same time it's a war there is no such thing as non-combatants when area effect weapons come into play and the insurgents know this, so they tend to hide amongst the general population. At the same time we could go back to the tactics we used in WW II. There has been somewhere over 100,000 casualties including both military and civilian in Iraq, in one fire bombing raid of Tokyo alone killed over 200,000 civilians. The target was not military facilities but was specifically the civilian population of Tokyo. That's even more than both the atomic bomb casualies put together. Pretty much our ultimatum to the Japanese people was surrender or face extermination.
Again as I stated earlier people have very skewed perspective when it comes to the past. If they had the proper one then they'd realize exactly how cautious and gently (I'm not saying the best way) we are treating the situation in the Middle East.
Because if it came down to it, if we really wanted to we could end the conflict in Iraq in the span of 45 minutes. Don't believe me? Then just ask the Japanese what we are capable of...
ahahah :) good one.