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PCs For A Workshop Environment?
bryanporter writes "I'm a geek-turned-homeowner, and am in the processing of setting up my workshop for doing odds and ends around the house. I want to install a cheap, decent PC out there for looking up building plans, shopping for tools while I'm on a job, etc. The shop is going to be in a wooden outbuilding with a shingled roof but the building won't be heated or cooled (although I don't plan on using it much in the summer)." Read on for a bit more on what he's looking for -- what would you suggest for computing in a hostile environment on a non-industrial budget?
"I plan on doing things like sawing wood for shelves in here so dust will also be prevalent. Can any of you Slashdotters recommend components for building a machine resilient to cold weather and lots of dust? I was a PC upgrade/repair technician in a former life, so building my own machines is not daunting in the slightest (I've built all my own home machines). The ruggedized machines I've found online are all too pricey, and all seem more designed for avoiding shock damage than environmental dust and cold."
How about building a small dust-proof closet for the computer and video-out display wirelessly? And add a glass-shielded desk (you see those in some retail shops/banks) where your LCD will be lying on its back facing up, covered by a layer of glass. Wireless keyboard and mouse can be regularly cleaned/dusted off or even replaced.
:)
Failing that, maybe build some sort of a curtainized shed, so you work on the computer inside, like those scientists in the contaminated zone
While most people put the roof back on their convertibles when it's raining, some take out the umbrellas.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Just buy a cheap PC... You would be surprised at the hostile enviroments a PC will live in...
Most important feature of the PC - filters for the intake fans. Keeping the dust and grime out will go along way making a PC in the shop or garage last a long time...
Once a geek, always a geek.
Laws are for people with no friends.
Check out Outdoor Computer Cases
We used to make plexiglass cases for use in the mining industry. Basically just a bit bigger than the system unit, Grommeted cable holes, and shrouded, filtered fans in the plexiglass case giving positive pressure to combat dust ingress.
definitely...buy one that allows you full use while protecting against spills and dust.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
Previous posts made the point of sealing up the computer and monitor... all fine and good. Be sure to get a keyboard that's sealed, and an optical mouse, or a touchpad. There are "roll-up" keyboards that have no exposed moving parts. Also, if you can enclose the computer & monitor in a housing that has a "positive pressure", you'll avoid a lot of the trouble dust. Try to find a way to blow clean air into the enclosure so that no dust can get sucked into the cabinet.
I'm in connecticut on my back deck it's cover but has no sides it's 34 degrees Im using a Power Mac G4 400 Mhz and a dell 15 inch crt I have woke up in the3 morning with snow on my key board I never shut it off just let it sleep It's running like a charm get a mac
http://Lenny.com
Most important feature of the PC - filters for the intake fans ...
Right. And keep your PC off the floor, that's where the dust is. Keep the PC on a desk, in a cupboard, etc. Better yet, keep the PC in a separate closet.
-kgj
-kgj
Run a Cat5 and get yourself a Win or X or VNC terminal. Fanless, really rugged. Not too expensive to get a older model ( or used off ebay ).
Keep the 'real' hardware back in the house where it can be protected...
You can also get sealed keyboards for pretty cheap these days.
LCD screens deal better with bad environments then CRT as they run cooler, but they aren't what you would consider cheap.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I have a friend who once did something like this with an old pentium 2 350mhz computer. To keep moisture out, he duct taped all seams on the case and cut makeshift air filters out of simple polyester batting to fit on the fans to keep the dust out and made a small wooden cabinet for the monitor and also used a form fitting plastic keyboard cover to keep it clean. For the mouse, I forgot what he did. I think he might have used a cheap optical mouse.
Having done what you describe in a light industrial environment, the only thing I would add is a work-through dust cover for the keyboard (the same kind you see in use at industrial will-call counters etc.) You can use the keyboard with cover in place, thus protecting it from dust, chemicals, grease, and other nasties on your hands while working. The covers are durable, and clean easily.
Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
If I were you, I'd go for something with as few moving parts as possible, to reduce the number of points of failure. You could maybe set up a Linux-based thin client or diskless workstation, since it doesn't sound like you'll be using anything more demanding than a web browser.
Another big issue to consider is the monitor. Apparently many CRTs don't like being taken below freezing, and LCDs are even less tolerant.
Karma: Segmentation fault (tried to dereference a null post)
You could carry a laptop to your outbuilding as needed -- bring it in when it's cold -- and something like an Apple iBook (with its cover closed) is relatively durable impact-wise; I've seen them survive after being dropped.
That sounds a little over budget to me.
I was thinking getting a cheap p2-p3 system, whatever you can find lying around. Sometimes you can find them in the trash. just stick some of these babies on them (fan filters: http://www.directron.com/fangrill80bb.html) where ever there is holes in the case.
Get a cheap ass optical mouse. Try to find one that has an completely enclosed optical device. If it doesn't no big deal, you can find them for $3-4 at pricewatch.com.
Get a keyboard leaflet, this is a must. http://www.kador.com/leaflet1.htm
you can get one here for free, if you don't mind being "creative"
Finally a can of compressed air from your local office supply and your set.
"...a wooden outbuilding with a shingled roof but the building won't be heated or cooled..."
It will be if you use an overclocked Duron or Prescott...
Windows has detected an undetectable error.
... why not go completely fanless and seal the thing up completely? Many people - especially those building HTPCs - go with entirely passive cooling so they don't have noisy fans. There are some nice (but fairly expensive) all-aluminum HTPC cases where the case itself acts as a heat sink for components. You don't need a P4 or some other massively powerful CPU; you don't need a 15K RPM hard drive; you don't need a high power 3D graphics card.
Or just get a used Toughbook off eBay.
We have off the shelf PC's at work, running in an industrial environment. They run 24/7 and have been running since 2000. I blow the dust out of them about every 3 months and reboot the computer. Once in a while I replace a cooling fan. The cooling fan will let you know by the noise.
This post is so completely inaccurate, I don't know where to start. I can't believe it was modded "Informative"... oh wait, yes I can. I'll tackle a few points....
"Building a computer resilient to cold weather should not be a problem in the slightest. In fact, many computers would run effectively much much better in a cold climate. A big factor in the overall heat that the CPU gives off has to do with the ambient temperature"
The CPU will work fine in the cold, but you're missing the point. The things that will be most affected by the cold are moving parts... fans, and hard drives in particular. When it's really cold, those hard drives might not spin too well. There's also the moisture issue which is going to have bad short term (possible shorts) and long term (corrosion) effects on everything.
"If you buy slightly new hardware, chances are they are going to give off an immense amount of heat...which is a problem facing microprocessor makers in general, the rising heat problems. Trust me, a Pentium 4 or AMD64 would love a cold climate."
The AMD64s are renowed for their low heat dissipation. They run at an even lower voltage (and often at a lower clockspeed!) than AMD's previous CPU generation, the AthlonXPs. They also have laptop-like ability to throttle their clockspeed when the CPU is idle, reducing heat output even further.
"the only thing that the cold will aversely affect is the initial bootup of the machine. Like a car, a computer requires the most energy in the first moments of startup. If you are booting up a computer in a cold environment (a cold cold boot hehe), you may have some problems"
No, you're totally wrong. A computer does have an initial spike in power draw during bootup (because it's spinning up the drives and fans) but this is less than the power it draws under full load (100% CPU and video usage - ie, gaming).
And the car battery analogy is totally inappropriate. A car battery can have problems cranking out power in the cold because the chemical reactions in the battery that produce electricity happen more slowly in the cold. That's absolutely not what happens in a computer, where the power supply is simply transforming power from AC to DC. Get it? It's not producing power; it's taking it from the outlet in the wall, transforming it, and sending it to the motherboard and other peripherals. The effect of cold temperatures on the PSU is minimal, if anything.
There's nothing wrong with not knowing something. The problem is not knowing that you don't know something. I don't know Python or Perl, but that's okay... I don't try and hand out advice on those topics.
"Although the computer will run fantastic (i wish my room was freezing cold!) in a cold climate"
Let me guess: you're an "avid" overclocker. That tells me a lot. I'm surprised you don't have your system specs listed in your sig.
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where they deployed PCs everywhere. They also had tons of grease and all other sorts of contaminants being flung about. They just used generic Compaq computers with cheapy 15" flatscreens. We just stored them in a cheaply made wooden shelf with a plastic shield to protect the monitor and a keyboard shelf. I imagine since you are good with tools, you could construct one of these yourself.
They tried using special keyboard mouse combo devices(basically just a trackball and a few buttons added on to the right side of the keyboard), but these ended up breaking quite frequently and seem to be harder to find. I would recommend just using cheap keyboards and mice, and keep plenty around. They are probably the most likely thing to break.
Monstar L
Most LCD panels have an operating temperature range of 0 to 50 degrees C (32 to 140 degrees F). The upper end of the range is unlikely to be a problem, but if your workshop is likely to get below freezing in the winter an LCD monitor will likely get damaged: use a conventional CRT based monitor instead.
Anyways, I second this post. I'd also like to mention that you might try booting your OS off of the network and loading it into RAM and skip the whole hard drive altogether. That way you can keep the number of moving parts as low as possible (and save some cash).
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I'd get a cheap laptop and a wi-fi card. That way you can take the laptop out there and work while you need, and keep it in the house the rest of the time. Alternatively, you could buy one of those cheap barebones "mini" PCs with a handle and simply carry it from house to shed as necessary.
Just then the floating disembodied head of Colonel Sanders started yelling Everything You Know Is Wrong!-Weird Al
First of all: Do not run cat-5 between buildings. Unless you have the ability to figure out and prevent ground loops, you are asking for trouble. Use either fiber or wireless. (or 10base5, if you can find it anymore, but shipping from eBay is likely to be more than other solutions)
Next, put the computer off your clean room. Cutting wood implies that you will be putting a finish on it latter, and finish should always be applied in a separate room that is well filtered and ventilated. (and heated!) Now you don't want your computer in the fumes from some finishes (you never know what will eat plastic), but you otherwise want exactly the same environment for both.
If you want to use the computer in the main shop, start with a wide format printer so you can print your instructions off. (this can be in the house) Then consider a projector, through a window from the clean room to a wall elsewhere. Requires some forethought of how to place things so it will work, but otherwise useful. If not that, run an LCD through a wall. Use the cheapest keyboard you can find in the shop so you don't care when it goes.
Last, search rec.woodworking. (google groups used to be good for this) This subject has been brought up many times.
Mainly due to their low price (can be had for about 400$), and their much smoother exteriors (less cracks for dust to find its way into).
Grab yourself a shuttle or jetway, if you dont need a cd-rom/floppy you can leave the sealing front plates on them, having only the rear fan's outake as an open oriface, and pushing your price down to nearly 300$ (www.zipzoomfly.com).
after that your pretty much home free, every few months you can slide the cover back (three thumb-screws or less) and give the interior a quick air-dusting...
Since the size is small, it can be safely tucked away somewhere more secure than a full fledged tower might go, and can be kept all the more less exposed to dust and other harmfull airborne materials.
Heat is rarely a problem with all but the oldest and newest models, so as long as you keep the arc weilder away from the power cables you should be fine!!
Invest in a wireless keyboard/mouse, and youve reduced your clutter/liabilities that much more.
--Idiots, Every single one of YOU, A flaming mass of conglomerated morons, hey wait a second, isnt that how RAID works?
They had a covered dock area for loading and all the offices were ventilated from the warehouse. Diesel fumes from the trucks trickled in and made all the vents pitch black. And inside the PC, they were completely black. They had been running the same PCs for 5 years with no more problems than anyone else has.
Bottom line, unless there are liquids around, you will probably be fine with just cleaning it out every once in a while.
I'm not drunk, I just have a speech impediment. And a stomach virus. And an inner ear infection.
I work for a support company. We do networks and hardware repair for all sorts of companies. Anything from $200 an hour lawyers to to heavy industrial.
My point is at the industrial places I have seen a lot of computers. I've had to fix PC's with 3 inches of metal shavings inside the case. Layers of black nasty dust. Computers you don't even want to touch because they are so nasty. Puddles of oil on them.
The majoriy of them still run, still work fine. Espically considering that some of them are Pentium based PC running 95 and they are still working in this enviroment.
Get a used PC, or put togather one from your parts bench. Put it in your shop. Forget about it, it will run forever. Just try to keep it away from the sander.
i used to work IT in a very filthy factory that has ~50 HP Pavillion PC on the shop floor. They held up very well, I believe, for one major reason, they rn P75's with passive cooling. Just before i left they were starting to upgrade to PII 400 machines with fans on the heatsinks. Some of the P75's had been in service for multiple years with out a hardware failure. There were a couple of PII's that failed due to overheating within 6 months, all of which had fans so cloged that they could turn anymore...
Points of failure for PCs in dusty environments are the hard drives and fans. I'm looking to build a similar unit like you're describing that is completely void of moving parts (aside from the fan in the power supply, but power supplies are cheap to replace). What parts am I looking for? Mini-itx, VIA EPIA motherboard with a built-in VIA C3 processor that runs without the need of a processor fan (heat-sink still needed, obviously). CompactFlash to IDE adapter that allows me to install a compactflash card as the media storage device. Due to budget issues, I'm restricted to maybe 1GB or 2GB of disk space, but that's plenty for me to install linux with X and fluxbox or enlightenment. I'll also be running VNC or NX client in order to remotely control a desktop on a server safely sitting on my desk in the home office---essentially making the computer a thin client. Since I'm reusing my monitor (if it goes bad, I won't care), keyboard, and mouse, the total cost could feasibly fall under $600.
Linux at home
A friend of mine asked me to take a look at her computer. She said the computer was unusually "quiet" and would reboot itself on occasion. I surmised correctly that the fan on her power supply was faulty. She was a chain smoker and apparently smoked a lot while working on the computer; not only was the power supply fan gummed up with revolting tar and nicotine, but the CPU's cooling fan was clogged beyond use, and the cdrom drive drawer would not open. This is the only computer I have ever worked on that died from smoking.
In reply to the above anecdote of stupidity, a reader sent in the following:
I've seen a computer die from smoking, too.
A customer came in with a dead computer, claimed it was under warranty, and asked if we could fix it. We had look at it, and before we even laid eyes on it, we could smell it. Imagine the stench of an overused ashtray times ten.
We looked at the yellow case (it was supposed to be beige) and the date of purchase (3-4 months previous) and goggled in disbelief that she actually had any lungs left.
"What are you doing with this computer?" I asked in total disbelief. It was at a taxi service. She smoked, the cabbies smoked, and the room was apparently only about eight by twelve. Smoking took place 24/7 in this place, and her fingers and the computer bore witness. We opened the case, and there were visible deposits of brown tar everywhere. The whole thing was gummy and slimy inside.
We had to tell her she was on her own. Naturally, she countered with the "it's under warranty" argument, but the computer was well beyond that. She left quite mad. We insisted she take her computer with her when she left.
All of which goes to speak on the need for keeping technology properly ventilated.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"