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Getting the Girl

1up.com has a great article up entitled Getting The Girl. Zoe Flower discusses female gaming stereotypes, the role of women in gaming, and the mythical "girl formula" for gaming success. From the article: "Lara Croft continues to personify an ongoing culture clash over gender, sexuality, empowerment, and objectification. It was while standing in my first-ever ladies' room line at E3 2004 as I pondered the Playboy bunnies, the return of Leisure Suit Larry, and the slew of buxom virtual ladies headlining each booth that I questioned whether the industry had evolved at all."

13 of 528 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Sheesh by cgranade · · Score: 4, Informative

    RTFA. This article challenges the perception that women are the only ones stereotyped against, as well as that the portrayal of women in games must be inherently anti-feminist. Playboy: Mansion's lead designer is a woman. Moreover, she is pregnant with twins.

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  2. Re:How quaint by Staos · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's her real name. Her parents were hippies.

    I'm being completely serious here. She used to write a collumn for OPM, and she wrote about her name once.

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    In Soviet russia, only old Koreans profit from pictures of Natalie Portman stored on Beowulf Clusters.
  3. Zoe's website by khasim · · Score: 3, Informative
    1. Re:Zoe's website by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      And videos too!

  4. Wanna get the girl??? (in real life???) by vudufixit · · Score: 2, Informative

    Then... Don't be a nice guy. I don't mean be a jerk or an a-hole, just don't go out of your way to be nice to a woman. Don't put her up on a pedestal. Don't be anxious to call back (hint: if they really like you a lot, they'll wonder what's going on and call you). I've read a lot of material on what women like and what they don't like - looks help, but true self-confidence is the true attractant. Fellas, I'm no prize in the looks dept, but when I was a 16 yr old pimply virgin, if I went back in time and showed pix of some of the women I've dated/slept with, I wouldn't have believed it. It was just a matter of knowing myself better and becoming more confident. There's someone for everyone, guys. It's a numbers game - don't settle.

  5. Re:Why should it evolve? by canfirman · · Score: 3, Informative
    Ms. Flower is trying to manufacture a double standard where none exists

    I disagree. There is a double standard: it's ok for men to be objectified because nobody complains, but it's "wrong" for women to be objectified. And it's not limited to gaming. All forms of media (TV, magazines, books, billboards, etc.) have both sexes objectified, but you hear more complaints about scantily-clad women than bare chested men. I wonder if Ms. Flower has read any romance novels or seen any romatic movies and if she's offended by the objectification of the sexes there - especially the "handsome, tall, muscular" man.

    The objectification of the sexes to show the "perfect" model is everywhere. Every sane person knows that it does not represent the population at large.

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    It is not our abilities that show what we truly are... it is our choices.
  6. Re:Sheesh by brkello · · Score: 2, Informative

    hahaha, ok, so much wrong with this. So what if she is a woman...so what if she has twins. Just because she finds it acceptable to portray women that way, doesn't mean that women in general can't object to the way they are depicted. The fact that she is a woman and is pregnant with twins is irrelevant to everything. It's good you RTFA, but C(omprehending)TFA is important too. It's like that skit on the Chapelle Show. He plays a blind black man who is a member of the KKK and a white supremicist. Just because he is black, doesn't mean white supremacy is ok.

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  7. Re:No mention of HL2? by FortranDragon · · Score: 2, Informative

    Another one would be Cate Archer from the No One Lives Forever series. The character's looks were based on the real life model Mitzi Martin.

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    "All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
  8. Re:Target Audience by wisdom_brewing · · Score: 2, Informative

    ok, im not female but ive done quite a bit of research in the field, odd as that is

    little statistics coursework on female views on the male form, turns out that its also a good way to meet girls :) had a questionaire-type thing associating females views of the "perfect" male and female bodies using magazine covers for examples.

    girls tend to like the bodies of guys on the fron of 'mens health' or 'mens fitness' as opposed to 'muscle and fitness' or 'extreme body' type mags. "swimmers body" is the most often heard expression, watch the olympics, youll get the idea.

    though as with most things views vary, some of the girls with the most typical views of a female body had extreme views on men.

    there are women out there who find "big violent muscley type" men most attractive, though they are few and far between. most women are put off by it.

    another survery (carried out on a decent sized sample, not resticted to a sample of a few hundred like mine) found that womens and mens views on muscle varied by about 5-10kg (11-22 pounds). that is, a man thought he looked best with 5-10kg more muscle than a woman thought he looked ideal with. slight simplification.

    but yeh...

  9. Re:I bet "girl games" would have girls on them too by caranha · · Score: 2, Informative

    You know, this is indeed true.

    In Japan, there is this series, Tokimeki Memorial,
    where you play a guy who, in one school year, must
    make one of the girls of his social circle fall in
    love with him. It was a hugely suscessfull game,
    with 3 continuations.

    A few years ago, they released "Tokimeki Memorial:
    Girls Side", where the roles were reversed. The character was a girl, and had to have one of the boys in her social circle fall for her.

    And, unlike the other games, in this game the same-sex characters played a huge part, while in
    the "male" games, the male characters had pretty minor roles.

  10. I disagree. by i41Overlord · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is an example of political correctness stifling scientific understanding. Over the years people have been taught to despise and shoot down any stereotype, even if that stereotype has a basis in truth. Remember, not ALL stereotypes are bad or offensive.

    What the original poster said is true. The brains of men and women are specialized for different functions. It has been proven numerous times that men are more optimized at visual spatial skills while women have inherent advantages in verbal and organizational skills.

    http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?l an guage=english&type=24119&article_id=218391881&cat= 1_1

    And as far as black people having more fast twitch musle fibers, that's not entirely accurate but there is some truth behind the story. It's not all black people, but specifically people who evolved in the Western Africa region do have a higher percentage of quick twitch muscle fibers and a higher testosterone level than those elsewhere in the world. They have a distinct advantage in anaerobic performance such as sprinting, and the records over the years spell it out clearly. Don't confuse this with "all" black people, because those who evolved in Eastern Africa, notably the high altitude region between Kenya and Ethiopia have almost the complete opposite evolutionary specialization. Not surprisingly, from evolving in a high altitude region, they have a larger lung capacity and better cardiovascular system (more red blood cells) than those who evolved at lower altitudes. They excel at aerobic activities such as long distance running.

    http://www.africana.com/articles/daily/index_200 11 106.asp

    In the examples I gave above, look at the records. You have a huge pool of competitors from all over the globe yet people from a small area seem to win a *huge* proportion of events that *far* exceeds the percentage that a random group of people should win. I mean just take a look at the Boston Marathon. Kenya is not exactly the most populous country on Earth, but look at the results from the last 20 years when they started competing:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_winners_of_ th e_Boston_Marathon

    This is not a racist or sexist discussion, this is a discussion of the realities of evolution and the differences that we live with. It's not a reason to hate, it's a reason to understand.

    I am not racist or sexist, I'm just not an ultra left-wing PC Nazi or an ultra right-wing Bible thumper. I'm just a regular guy who would like to throw the racism and sexism out the window and find out the *real* underlying causes, even if they are taboo to talk about. I'm firm believer in evolution and I believe that many of the differences you see in races/the sexes is due to evolving in different areas or doing different tasks.

  11. Re:What about the studly men!? by Catnapster · · Score: 2, Informative

    All the gamer-girls I know love Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7.

    This guy doesn't even exist and he gets more chicks than I do. Fuck Sephiroth.

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    The world can be wrong today for once.
  12. Re:Evolved? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2, Informative

    Tomb Raider was originally supposed to feature an Indiana Jones type male lead. The main programmer, however, decided that if he was going to spend a year staring at an ass, it might as well be an attractive female ass.

    Hence, Lara Croft.

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