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Getting Broadband To The Bayou

Caseylite points out an article in USA Today "about the struggle between the city of Lafayette, Louisiana and BellSouth. The big telecom objects to the city installing its own fiber-optic network, claiming unfair competition. The city says its goal is bringing high-speed data access to low income areas to break the poverty cycle, stating a link between broadband access and education and employment."

21 of 274 comments (clear)

  1. Two sides by SilverspurG · · Score: 5, Interesting

    On the one side is the innocent corporation which would never think to hold back service until the people are willing to pay through their teeth for it.

    On the other side is the innocent government which would never think to render everyone's communications legally monitorable.

    In the middle are all the people who don't know what the heck is going on but just want to amuse themselves on the network.

    --
    fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
    1. Re:Two sides by DaveJay · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >On the one side is the innocent corporation which would never think to hold back service until the people are willing to pay through their teeth for it.

      >On the other side is the innocent government which would never think to render everyone's communications legally monitorable.


      Well, that's it, then, isn't it. Those customers who can't afford (or don't want to pay for) the private broadband networks at least have a low-cost option for job hunting and education, and those customers who want privacy (and presumably a better experience) are willing to pay more for it. Nothing to see here.

      Oh, wait -- except that the corporation is not willing to compete under those conditions, and would rather charge more for no privacy and a poorer experience. Tsk.

      Seeing as how so many big business supporters argue that government can't do things like this profitably, shouldn't the big business here be smiling, confident that they'll be able to make a profit because the government's pipeline will be too expensive? I wonder why they're not smiling.

      Oh, wait -- if that whole "the government can't do it efficiently" thing is just a smokescreen for preserving monopolies, that would explain it. Hmm.

    2. Re:Two sides by Phleg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seeing as how so many big business supporters argue that government can't do things like this profitably, shouldn't the big business here be smiling, confident that they'll be able to make a profit because the government's pipeline will be too expensive? I wonder why they're not smiling.

      Perhaps because no matter how inefficient or unprofitable government happens to be in these matters, it will never ever back out? After all, it can always increase taxes.

      Oh, wait -- if that whole "the government can't do it efficiently" thing is just a smokescreen for preserving monopolies, that would explain it. Hmm.

      Right. Because capitalists totally love monopolies even more than bacon. We think that it's totally in every consumer's interest for services to be provided by one inefficient overarching body. Oh wait, that's exactly what we're talking about here.

      --
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    3. Re:Two sides by maxpublic · · Score: 3, Informative

      Capitalists don't love monopolies. Monopolists love monopolies. The two aren't even close to being one and the same.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
  2. Link between broadband and education by jdhutchins · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not that it's bad to bring broadband to poor areas, but I don't think it will do much good. These areas already have school. They may not be great schools, but if you're not taking advantage of them, that's your fault. The link exists between broadband and education/income, but education causes income which causes broadband, not the other way around. Correlation never implies causation.

  3. Unfair? by XsynackX · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The only thing that is unfair about this is how companies like BellSouth are allowed to actually slow down processes that are helping people just so they can try to get a piece of the pie. I am sick and tired of companies trying to put their own profits before the greater good of society.

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  4. Fantastic by tuxter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's proactive stuff like this from local government that is going to enable everyone to have high speed data/comms/AV content to their homes. Fuck the telco's.

  5. Times to kick the telcomms to the curb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Unfair competition they say? Yeah, how about their continual attempts throughout history to insure a monopoly position on what communications get to our homes. Fiber optics laid by cities looks like the solution to these problems. Oregon lead the way. It is time we all petition our local governments so we can have cable/internet/phone/utility monitors/etc to our homes for less than $50 month (all together).

  6. hmm by DustyShadow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since when do corporations have any say what a city can do with its land?

    1. Re:hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I live in Lafayette, where this is occuring. The problem isn't that the companies have direct control over what goes on in creating the network, but they do have the ability to run commericals nonstop badmouthing the city's plans. Bellsouth is partnering with Cox Communications, which is the city's cable provider. So, as you can imagine, running advertisements saying that the city's plans are bad doesn't cost them very much.

  7. Unfair, my ass. by Staplerh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A telecommunications giant is fighting the city, because it is providing services. Well, that's what this is. A service, and it will benefit society. Besides, its not like Bellsouth doesn't have their own little little nest. From TFA:

    BellSouth says it can't compete effectively with cities where taxpayers pay for laying down expensive fiber-optic networks. . . Perhaps, but Lafayette is building because BellSouth and the city's cable TV company aren't rushing to meet the city's needs.

    There you go: evidence that capitalism isn't meeting the needs of people, and the state is stepping in. Adam Smith and economic libertarians would have those people simply sitting around, waiting for the invisible hand to bring them their broadband. Nope, the city is intervening, the corporation is retaliating.. and the city should win.

    Of course, Bellsouth could probably just win everything by stepping into the area and providing service (probably with an initial loss, but they'd recoup their costs) - heck, get a juicy government subsidy and some nice photo-ops. I'm sure this USA Today article will turn some heads, especially if it gets reported in a more reputable newspaper.

    --
    "There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
    - Bob Dylan
  8. South Korea by mboverload · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It is because of this kind of crap we don't have 15 megabit pipes for 30 bucks a month like South Korea does.

    I am TIRED of being behind Asian countries. Are we not *supposed* to be the most advanced country on earth. I don't think so. We are a rusty country, full of aging infrastructure, telecommunications monopolies (they are still monopolies even if it's not on paper), and a bureaucratic system that has been bought by Big Tele. We have lost our edge. The early American inventors are turning in their graves. We used to be the envy of earth with our mightly technology, now we are all but a joke to the Japanesse technocratic elite.

  9. They're not regulating the right things... by MLopat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So the Telco wants to call in regulators to allow them to rollout their highspeed network, meanwhile Cox, an existing provider there, has raised the price for high-speed access 4 times already. They need regulations on the price, not the service providers.

    And as for the comments on whether internet access will help the poor areas of America, in this case the University of Lousiana is in their backyard. So broadband access is a must if they hope to draw businesses that will do research associated with the University.

  10. We have the same thing in our town by neilb78 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Our city installed it's own fiber network... guess who our local teloc is? BellSouth.

    We now have nice, cheap, cable modem (and TV)service ($35/mo = 512k/1.5M); and ip phone service is coming soon.

    --
    © 2004 The SCO Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
  11. Re:Unrealistic by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

    > and are an important source of income for many
    > millions of people

    42 million people in the US own 401k plans:

    http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5168863. ht ml

    I'd guess that non-401K, like the TIAA-CREF related plans, are another 20 million or so. Even when you factor in that some of these are the lone breadwinner of an entire family, the fact that the US has 300 million people means that this doesn't represent the majority of Americans.

    Only about half of Americans have any money, directly or indirectly, in the stock market. Many people's "retirement plan" is social security, their house if they have one, and their children if they have them.

    It is these - the less fortunate half - that the city was trying to help.

    --
    We're practicing our labials.
  12. Screwed Up. by Michael+Hunt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Government intervention in capitalism should have one focus only: to address and correct 'Market Failure.'

    This is obviously what's happening here; there's a market, it's not being serviced, and the City is stepping in.

    For an incumbent telecoms monopoly who had no interest in servicing this area a priori (otherwise the City would not have had to DIY) to cry 'unfair competition' is idiotic. Since when has the Government had a natural advantage in the telecommunications space? It's hardly their core business.

    From another standpoint, a Government performing a task is no different than the citizens who elected said government performing the same task themselves. The Government is merely acting on behalf of those who elected it.

    The ILEC in question here should back the fuck off gracefully before something really horrible happens. Messing with Governments isn't smart, especially when said Governments are trying to score poltical points by doing this 'for the poor'.

  13. water networks also unfair by alan_d_post · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Also, city water systems are unfair competition for bottled water companies!

  14. Oh the Irony by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The worst part about the Telco situation is that they said they would deploy fiber optics door-to-door and then ADDED ON EXTRA FEES so that they could "afford" it

    How The Bells Stole America's Digital Future: Part I

    And I'm just going to give a token mention to the miles and miles of unlit (dark) fiber lying around unused because it's "owned" by the phone company. And by owned I mean the state practically gave it to them through tax breaks.

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    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  15. Re:Unrealistic by DarkSkiesAhead · · Score: 4, Insightful


    In 2003 the CEO of BellSouth made over $10 million in salary, bonuses, and stock. But, I'm sure he is only concerned with helping out those poor old people's retirement funds.

    All the largest portions of stock are owned by company executives and wealthy investors. But, I'm sure the small time share-holders are a high priority.

    In 2001 BellSouth executives released false information to artificially inflate the stock price and then cashed out before the stock plummeted. Surely that will help all those employees with 401(k) plans!

    If you think corporate profits are boon to society I have some Enron stock to sell you.

  16. Lay lines, auction access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why can't the city just lay a dozen lines instead of one, and then auction off access to companies? Then the companies are free to market their service packages to the homeowners.

    This gets around the bullshit of unfair competition and actually creates real competition.

    Ensure each fiber line is capable of 100 mb or more up and down, build into the bidding process requirements of no blocked ports for internet service, no prohibitions on running servers, and businesses as well as individuals of all types are on equal footing as to access.

    A dozen lines would cover the local telephone monopoly, the local cable monopoly, the local power company monopoly, the local water company monopoly, any other traditional (long distance/AT&T) monopoly, and will have lines left over for competitive bidding by independent internet service providers, the small guys.

    The power company gets to read their meters remotely if lines are left over and cheap enough verses sending out a meter reader, the water company can bid for their own line for water meter reading or piggyback on the power company line, the cable company no longer has to maintain their own copper and can sell phone, video, and whatever else they want, the local phone company loses their monopoly and tax breaks on investment and all the other sweets they normally bribe legislators for, and either they compete, or they risk other areas looking at the city as a learning lesson and the idea spreads.

    Laying a dozen lines of fiber is hardly more expensive than laying one line due to the majority of the cost being in the labor in digging up the ground or installing poles and all the related charges.

    The city running their own fiber? My city can't even get water bills right, can't answer the phone, can't fix a manhole that makes noise for the last ten years, can't fix catch basins that overflow when it lightly rains for closer to 20 years, can't follow their own zoning laws (unless the builder bribes them and then everything is ok), can't plow snow on some streets a week after a snowfall, can't, can't, can't...

    Am I really going to trust my city to not snoop on my internet and voip packets after I complain to the city or sue them in court?

    Am I going to trust my city to not snoop on my internet and voip packets when my city is represented by about 90% of one party, and they call me up on election day to make sure I go vote for them? Am I going to trust them to not snoop on my internet and voip packets if I was registered in a different political party for the previous ten or twenty years prior to them installing voip?

    Am I going to trust them to not snoop on my internet and voip packets when I call up to report a problem, and the phone rings twenty times and then I hear the phone receiver picked up, fumbled, then hung up again, to hear the line go dead? And when I call again, I hear the same thing, only laughter in the background as it is happening? And when I report what happened to a complaint line?

    The city should lay the fiber lines, multiple lines, then auction access to them. Use the auction money to pay off the laying of the lines. And if that doesn't cover the total cost, consider it an investment in the future of the city, and an increase in the competitive attraction to businesses and individuals due to far superior internet access as compared to other cities, nearly every other city in the US.

  17. Re:It *is* unfair, because of the tax factor... by bani · · Score: 5, Informative

    this is a city utility service, it's funded through use, nobody is forcing anyone to subscribe to broadband. the utility will be funded through access fees.

    other city networks operate exactly this way -- funded through access fees, not public taxation.