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Google's Dark Fibre Plans?

sebFlyte writes "According to news.com "Google is looking for Strategic Negotiator candidates with experience in...(i)dentification, selection, and negotiation of dark fiber contracts both in metropolitan areas and over long distances as part of development of a global backbone network." Is the search giant planning to build a global fibre-optic network?" Or perhaps simply use unused fibre that they can get for cheaper then from the datacenter providers; although at least from my talks with the datacenter folks, Google's not paying much per Mbps as it is.

19 of 201 comments (clear)

  1. Dark Fibre (Fiber) defined. by sanityspeech · · Score: 5, Informative
    The free encyclopedia definition:
    "Dark fibre or unlit fibre (or fiber) is the name given to fibre optic cables which have yet to be used. They are hence not yet connected to any device, and are only there for future usage."
    1. Re:Dark Fibre (Fiber) defined. by FrYGuY101 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thinking about it... maybe Google is planning an entrance into the ISP market?

      I mean, Google might be getting cheap rates for www.google.com, but that probably wouldn't extend to customers, plus accessability wouldn't be that great...

      I'm not quite sure what Google's angle on the market would be, except perhaps high-speed/low-cost, but that doesn't seem as elegant as Google's usual offerings...

      --
      "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living."

      - Seneca
    2. Re:Dark Fibre (Fiber) defined. by rwyoder · · Score: 4, Informative

      Dark fibre or unlit fibre (or fiber) is the name given to fibre optic cables which have yet to be used. They are hence not yet connected to any device, and are only there for future usage.

      There is a second meaning: It is fiber which is not lit by the provider. For example if you have two locations and lease a dark fiber between the two, you are essentially getting two ends of a single fiber with no networking equipment in the loop. You will then connect your own equipment at each end and light it your self.
    3. Re:Dark Fibre (Fiber) defined. by seanadams.com · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's more to it than that... my understanding is that when you lease "dark fiber" it means that when you get it, the fiber is _still_ dark from end-to-end, i.e. there is no mux/demux equipment or any telco "value add" services associated with it. It's sort of like the "alarm circuit" that telecoms used to sell, which was a "dry copper" pair from one location to another with no telecom switch or repeaters on the line. It's not just "unused" fiber - it's fiber that you get to signal on however you want (within some power limits I'm sure).

      This means you provide the equipment, potentially giving you vastly more bandwidth than the telecom could sell you on that fiber. It also means you can upgrade your equipment later for faster speeds. It also means less points of failure on the line because its just optics all the way through.

      Dark fiber usually isn't sold by the telecoms. Usually you'll have to get it from companys such as the railway and sewer owners - the guys who oversee the cables themselves, not the higher level services.

      The disadvantage of dark fiber compared to a telcom OCx circuit are 1) you can't get channelized services eg split this DS3 into a few DS1 to this locations, and few DS1s to that location, a couple DS1s for ISDN PRI, etc etc. 2) you have less flexibility in choosing the endpoints - your choices are limited to big data centers where the vendors are willing/able to provide dark dervice 3) you don't get to deal with the really nice helpful people at the phone company

    4. Re:Dark Fibre (Fiber) defined. by nizo · · Score: 4, Funny

      The nice thing about dark fiber is that it is more efficient. While regular fiber uses light to transmit data, dark fiber uses a lack of light to transmit data.

  2. Unification by Fleetie · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ah, so has Google unified String Theory, Dark Matter, and Dark Energy?

    --
    "Absorbing your worst..."
  3. The Google Empire by imthatguy · · Score: 5, Funny

    And thus it begins....it was difficult to see at first; what Google's plans were. Only after it had struck first using highspeed fiber to initiate the subroutines in the Google desktop search companion did humanity realize its vast mistake. Only it was too late...Google was selfaware...and it was hungry...for pie...I mean Pi...

    --
    Did you know you can be apathetic to apathy? Not that I give a shit...
  4. They've been connected to the ams-ix for some time by Erik+Hensema · · Score: 5, Informative
    I have seen traces from the Netherlands to www.google.com go over the amsterdam internet exchange for some time now. According to their member page they have been connected since march 2004. Traceroute:
    5 bb2-ge6-0.amsix-telecity.home.nl (213.51.158.153) 28.478 ms 27.683 ms 26.895 ms
    6 r2-ge1-2-0.amsix-telecity.home.nl (213.51.158.158) 26.563 ms 35.185 ms 33.987 ms
    7 core1.ams.net.google.com (195.69.144.247) 32.044 ms 32.543 ms 30.484 ms
    8 64.233.175.246 32.806 ms 32.560 ms 30.529 ms
    9 216.239.46.173 30.058 ms 29.058 ms 26.684 ms
    10 216.239.49.254 37.532 ms 36.958 ms 39.685 ms
    11 216.239.48.50 41.163 ms 41.902 ms 43.109 ms
    12 216.239.49.62 35.543 ms 34.004 ms 33.173 ms
    13 * * *

    The AMS-IX is the largest Internet Exchange / NAP in Europe.

    --

    This is your sig. There are thousands more, but this one is yours.

  5. Not surprising... by Tancred · · Score: 4, Informative

    They've got several (lots of?) datacenters that have to sync up lots of data. Anyone with enough data to transfer around can save money just buying the strands of fiber or wavelengths on lit fiber instead of paying a provider to light it. It's not surprising that Google has enough of this work to do that they want to hire someone with experience in it.

    1. Re:Not surprising... by tristan-jt2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Based on stuff I heard in another life, Google used to get transit contracts with the fastest connection they could get, but the lowest commited rate. The syncs used to take place in the proverbial top 5% of the 95th percentile.

      As in: they used provider A for 36 hours, provider B for the next 36h, provider C for the next 36h, etc... (bear in mind it was not surfer facing transit, just used to sync up the DCs.)

      They've probably reached the level where they've got too much data to get away with that scheme. So they've got a pretty simple choice:
      - Pay for the commited rate they really need.
      - Link the 2 Data Centers with dark fiber lit with 10GigE.

      Based on the over provisionning most fiber companies did when they built their networks, there's a lot of room for negociation when you're shopping for fiber, especially when you can hang the promise of a huge internationnal network in the balance.

      The second option is pretty much guaranted to turn out to be much more affordable.

  6. Re:I know! by AlgaeEater · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Either that or they want to be able to sync their world-wide collection of data-servers in an 'accpetable' length of time.

    --
    A hollow heart and empty head makes the streets run red.
  7. quick grammar question by revery · · Score: 4, Funny

    Which word is "dark" modifying, "plans" or "fibre"?

    --
    so dark, you'll forget the fibre

  8. Re:I wouldn't be surprised to see 'em buy a Level by vyzar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No no no.

    Why the hell would Google want to buy up an existing ISP/telco with all the crap that that entails?

    What they are doing is actually very sensible.

    By looking to negotiate purchase/lease of dark fibre over the medium term they are avoiding the big cost which is actually putting fibre into the ground.

    I imagine that they would ensure that the maintenance of that fibre is the responsibility of the provider, so they don't need to run their own maintenance crews either.

    And the BIG plus with having access to fiber is that you can then ramp up your capacity by using WDM (Wave Division Multiplexing) to get more bandwidth out of your fibre.

    They have probably realised that to ramp up their networks to cope with their future plans they need more bandwidth that they can afford to buy as "service" from a regular telco. Its just too damn expensive!

    By leasing the fibre themselves, they light it how they want, rather that how the telco wants to sell it to them.

    This *might* have biogger up front costs, but the recurrent costs are MUCH lower.

  9. "Glut of fiber assets" by grumling · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I'm getting really tired of all these "experts" talking about the glut of fiber in this country. The press makes it sound like there's dozens of dark fibers just a few inches from your house, and those darn telcos/cable companies just don't want you to have access to them. The reality is that most of the cash cow areas (such as Boston, NYC, LA and the bay area) have over capicity. Most of the rest of the country, where the payback is greater than 5 years, is very underserved.

    And even where there is overcapicity, it is mostly in the urban areas, put in place for business, not single family homes. Good luck getting dark fiber in the 'burbs, let alone the sticks

    --
    "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
  10. than by MarkoNo5 · · Score: 4, Funny

    It is "cheaper than", not "cheaper then". Only on slashdot does a Belgian reader teach English grammar to an American editor.

  11. Re:Google is taking over the world. by Gherald · · Score: 4, Funny
    People are mad at Microsoft, but google is a forthcomming world dominator....
    If that's so then Slashdot will be the first to declare allegiance.

    We are practically a Google Temple here, folks.
  12. Re:I wouldn't be surprised to see 'em buy a Level by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't forget that Google parks hardware all over the place. They've got a pile of it sitting in datacenters run by Savvis, who bought up the dregs of the Cable & Wireless operations (who bought up the dregs of the Exodus operations). But unlike Exodus, C&W also had tons of dark fibre. Savvis has been trying to make everything lean and mean, but they've got a pretty nice inter-datacenter-network... but not necessarily any bargains when peering with other people's operations. I can imagine that Google would love to get outside the loop of having the datacenter operators dictate what terms they're willing to live with when setting up new peering arrangements. Especially as Google's needs become more instantaneously multi-directional (rather than crunch-and-publish, it's real-time ad stats, mail, etc).

    Even if all these new hires do is help Google's datacenter providers make good decisions about new or altered peering networks, they'll probably earn their keep.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  13. This isn't about what you think by mbpark · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hello,

    Considering what Google has built internally for server management and redundancy, I would hypothesize based upon available data (i.e. GFS) that they're looking to light up fiber between their data centers, while running either TCP/IP or IPv6 (with modifications of existing IGP and routing protocols, more than likely BGP or OSPF) between them.

    This is a very smart move on their part, if this is true. This would allow them to do their own internal traffic control and shaping over a private network, and develop/modify algorithms for efficient transfer of data over said network, without having to "play" by Telco/ISP rules.

    In other words, they're more than likely building their own global network to more efficiently transfer data over the Internet by completely bypassing it for their inter-server traffic. This is a very smart move, if true.

  14. Nice business idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They're going to create a global super computer. Local servers gives higher performance. What do you think the Google bar is for? Coming versions will ask you if you want to donate your free CPU cycles to Google. Google in turn will sell these to corporations that needs CPU power.