Cooking With Linux

Georg Tobin writes "LinuxWorld open source editor Kevin Bedell conducts a very interesting interview with Michael Stutz, author of the new Linux Cookbook, 2nd Edition, on the language of the Linux command line, cookbooks, economics, and what applications you absolutely need Windows for."

Comments

interesting?

[bdigit]

hardly? This was nothing more then a regular interview with questions that were almost as bad a highschool newsreporters. Interviewers need to learn to get down and dirty and ask more detailed interesting questions.

http://www.immigrantornot.com/

Many fields left where Linux is unsuitable

[AthenianGadfly]

Contrary to the article, Windows is good for more than viruses and freeze-ups. In certain specialized fields, Linux is still much more difficult (or impossible) to run. The examples I am most familiar with are animation (as far as I know, no Linux program exists to create Flash animation, and the only 3d animation program I'm aware of is Blender), professional audio (fun with ALSA, anyone?), and graphics (aside from the GIMP issue, what about vector graphics and publishing?).

Yes, some of this is because more manufacturers cater to Windows rather than Linux, but the fact remains that this makes Windows more suitable for some things. Linux is not inherently less capable of performing these functions, but the tools don't exist yet.

Re:Many fields left where Linux is unsuitable

[Anonymous Coward]

blah.

Who cares?

What I use Linux for, what 90% of what people use computers for work out much much better on Linux if only they would take the time to learn how to use it.

It's a freakin tool. Linux is like fine wood carving knife. Solid yet flexible that can be made razor sharp or into a saw blade for whatever purpose you want to use Linux for.

Windows is like a electric turkey cutter in comparision. It works realy well at cutting slices of turkey, but that is about it.

Of course you have to realise that a PC is a PC and as long as the OS does it's job it can be made to do whatever you want, but Linux is still superior.

The only catch is that it takes effort. You install Debian, you mess around with it, you learn it and it will make you more productive. But most people would rather just throw money at somebody and take a nap.

I worked once at a place that was Window centric... Everybody was running around, one crisis after another. Techs were spending there lives working 20 hour days trying to get the next thing finished before the next crisis crops up. One thing after another.

All I could do is just stand there and shake my head. I know there is a better way, but it demands a higher level of professionalism, and most people don't want devote the effort.

It's like a guy with a spreadsheet program... He takes the numbers on a sheet of paper, copies them to the spreadsheet program in columns, then he breaks out the calculator and adds them up.

Then you, the geek, go: "oh, man there is a better way! here let me show you how to add up the columns correctly"

Then he gets all angry and goes "I don't have time to learn that! I am much to busy adding up these numbers! I have a life I need to get back too and I'll be here all weekend!"

That's what it's like to be a accomplished unix geek working in a windows enviroment.

That's what that guy was talking about when he was mentioning the degragation of american sociaty.

We used to work hard to accompish something. Creativity was utilized to create things, to build things.

What do we build? What do we create?

I want to make things. I want to create. I don't live for the next computer game, or the next ipod. The newet movie have no special attraction.

I want to have a living were I have a chance to accomplish and build something unique, not just patch for the next worm.

We need to be a nation of producers and creators. We need to work hard to build and contstruct, not just work nine to five for a paycheck so that we can buy the latet video game and then find a crack on IRC to get around the DRM to get it work.

Don't get me wrong.. I like to watch movies and play game, but being a consumer or antisipating the next new apple product is not central to my existance.

Re:Many fields left where Linux is unsuitable

[Tim C]

all do swf with varying degrees of utility.

So, do any of them truly compare to the Windows Flash tools? "Varying degrees of utility" covers a multitude of sins, after all; a little more detail would be appreciated.

I find it hard to believe anyone seriously involved with 3D animation could fail to be aware the role of Linux within the industry. It's Dreamworks, ILM, Disney, Weta and Pixar's main platform, for fuck's sake.

And how many of those places you list use off the shelf software of the type mere mortals like you and I can ever hope to use? I'm sure renderman and its ilk are truly supurb pieces of software, but at hundreds of thousands of dollars a licence, they may as well not exist from my point of view.

There are plenty of pro level audio tools for Linux too. Just have a look on Sourceforge or Freshmeat.

In my experience, "pro level" and sf (especially) and fm do not generally mix. For every high-quality, usable project there are a dozen or more that are a complete waste of time. Telling someone "just look on sourceforge" is next to useless without supplying a project name or two.

parading your ignorance when a couple of minutes with google would have enlightened you is just FUD-spreading

As far as I can see, all you've really done is said "no, there's plenty of software!!!". With the exception of the Flash stuff (and even there you're hazy), you've really not given much in the way of definite information. Just some hand-wavy "lots of people use it for that" type stuff.

Re:Many fields left where Linux is unsuitable

[TheSunborn]

It's a shame that DrawSWF, Spalah Flash, SWF Tools and gAnim8 are all alpha version software which can't be used for anything except toy projects.

And yes I looked because I need som software that can be used to develop flash files in linux. Including support for flash script.

But none of the tools you mentioned can really be used for anything usefull.

Re:Yep...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you mean GNU/Linux.

Interesting

[RobertTaylor]

"Kevin Bedell conducts a very interesting interview with Michael Stutz"

Interesting? Long term Linux user has book to sell.

EOF.

MOD PARENT UP!!!

[Prod_Deity]

I work with professional audio at home and work.

ALSA is a pain in the ass.

Audacity is good for an amature, but like the parent said, until there are more professional apps, Linux will just be a good server os, and an o.k. desktop.

If businesses cannot embrace Linux due to lack of apps, who will?

Re:MOD PARENT UP!!!

[joto]

Huh? Alsa? What's wrong with alsa? It's a sound-driver. It makes it possible to get input and output to and from your soundcard(s). It supports hardware and software mixing. And with linux/alsa/jack you generally get lower latency and higher flexibility than with windows. It also supports several professional soundcards...

Now audacity, I can agree. It's not in any way comparable to many professional audio tools for windows. But hey, if you wan't professional audio tools, why pick on audacity, it doesn't look like it was intended to be one. Now, if you had picked on wired, muse, ardour, rosegarden, ecasound, csound, pd, jmax, cmt, rtcmix , nyquist, sweep, jamin, or any of the other more "professional" tools, I could have understood you. But picking on audacity for not being suitable for professionals is like picking on soundrec.exe for much the same reason.

Re:Memory leaps need to be overcome..

[Eric Giguere]

This isn't unreasonable if you're a user who just wants to use the tools you know. I installed OpenOffice for someone for a similar reason, who needed to edit PowerPoint documents. He wasn't thrilled because OpenOffice didn't look exactly like office. It also kept asking him when she was saving his files if he really wanted to use the old Office format instead of the 'better' OpenOffice format. He needed the standard format because she was displaying the presentations with PowerPoint on machines where I couldn't go and install OpenOffice. The kicker for him, though, was that the presentations he edited with OpenOffice did not look the same when he ran them in PowerPoint. Sure, that's a bug that will probably (or may already have been) fixed, but that didn't help him get his job done.

In the end, he bought the version of Office that included PowerPoint and now he's happy.

Not everyone wants to be on the leading edge or to try out new things. You sometimes have to think of this from their viewpoint. Some people just don't care -- they've learned one tool and they don't want to learn another.

Eric
How to detect Internet Explorer

Re:Right tool for the right job

[1lus10n]

Have you ever used openoffice ? Given my personal experience OOo performs just about the same as MO.

Can't speak about Gimp vs paint/photoshop since I am about has graphic savvy as a brick. Linux is clearly the worst for end-user graphic/video stuff although there are tons of high end packages availible for it. OSX is clearly tops in this catagory (I assume we are talking 'home user' here ?)

"can afford the time configuring it correctly."

The average person doesnt spend any time configuring their windows system "properly" they just use the defaults. Linux would be no different. To be quite blunt about it .... you wouldnt need to be a poweruser, linux is a lot more friendly in the "set it and forget it" department. It seems like most people hold a double standard here. The average user still calls the monitor "computer" and the tower "cpu". They dont know anything about windows or linux. They are about as likely to know how to edit the registry has they are to be able to mess around in /proc.

I have switched probably 2 dozen friends/family over to linux in the past 2 years. The vast majority were your standard "web, email, IM" users. None of them have had any major issues. Surely no more problems than they had with windows prior to my switching them over.

"Using Linux for running office software is like using a saw to hammer in a nail"

So that would make using windows for the same purpose like using a screwdriver to hammer the same nail ? Linux works fine for the majority of office use. The only things it is majorly lacking in is games and graphics stuff. Thats a big thing for some. However the average law office (example) could use openoffice with little problem.

Re:First to apply OS methodology outside SW?

[Anonymous Coward]

The open source methodology is basically the scientific method

As a scientist, I find that remark absolutely revolting. The "open source methodology" is much closer to being a political party or religion than the scientific method. Be glad that the validity of FOSS proponents claims aren't easily testable, because I highly doubt that they would stand up to any reasonable application of the scientific method.

Re:you absolutely need Windows for

[anagama]

Re: Linux and gaming

You hear no end to the gaming argument. Fine. I'm still willing to bet that not 100% of computer users are gamers. When I was a kid, I played with my Atari, then my CoCo, and finally PC games. But at some point, at least for some users, there comes a time when games are just dull. Then, what do you use a computer for? Keeping data, analyzing data, email, internet -- stuff like that. There are lots of users who don't game and don't do photoshop. As for movies on the computer - I'm not that interested. I have a very nice TV/DVD setup - why would I want to look at video on a comparatively tiny monitor while sitting at a desk when I can sit back in true comfort (and no fan noise)?

I'm not saying Linux is perfect for everyone. But all these "it won't run photoshop or play games" arguments only prove that it isn't ready for a subset of users. For middle aged farts like me who want to graph data from my kiln firings, surf the net, check my email, and write a few letters, Linux isn't missing anything at all. Subtract viruses and worms from the mix, and Linux is far better. For now though, you gamers and graphic artists will just have to suffer with windows, but for crying out loud, enough already with the "Linux isn't ready" baloney. Although it doesn't meet your particular needs - there are lots of people for whom it would be perfect - they just don't know it.

Re:Right tool for the right job

[Anonymous Coward]

"Given my personal experience OOo performs just about the same as MO."

I take it you've never tried to link spreadsheet data to a word processing document, then.

"I have switched probably 2 dozen friends/family over to linux in the past 2 years....Surely no more problems than they had with windows"

I have switched a similar number over to OS X in the past 18 months. And after the first week or two, I never hear questions again. Not rarely, not "no more than Windows", I mean NONE. Okay, one, and that was about merging two user accounts, which is a UNIX file permission issue anyway so Linux would be equally prone, but the Finder's "Get Info" command let me talk them through the solution over the phone in 10 minutes.

These people are using digital cameras, scanners, printers, and video cameras as simply as plugging them in, they're using Safari, Mail.app, MSOffice, IRC, IM, GarageBand, even OpenOffice and GIMP, and some also have the major game releases plus UNIX gems like BZFlag. They aren't locked into the Aqua interface look (ShapeShifter), and installing and uninstalling software is a painless procedure for them. Their machines are correctly configured out of the box, the firewall automatically looks after any services they enable, there is no spy or adware that can install itself through a browser, and viruses are unheard of; the paranoid get ClamX.

Can you say all of that for Windows OR Linux?

I bet someone will still complain that Macs are too expensive for their processing power: how much is your sanity worth, considering the ease with which all this can be achieved on these "underpowered" machines?

From the article..

[matt-fu]

Is there anything you need to run Windows for?

Yes, there is an area affecting business and home use where Linux is greatly deficient, and I see no solution coming at all. I refer to the area of e-mail viruses - they just don't make them for Linux like they do for Windows. Same with a lot of those crippling meltdowns and system errors. If you want a blue screen of death freeze-up, you pretty much have to run Windows to get it.

Way to promote your book. I reluctantly have a Windows box, but it does none of the things described above.

If this is any indication of how the book is going to read, I'm almost embarassed to have my Windows user friends run across it. The author could have parlayed this question into a useful answer, but his FUD tells me absolutely nothing about how Linux is able to get over some of the other hurdles which keep Unix lovers from dumping our Windows platforms altogether, such as driver issues, games, and out of the box media playing.

I hate to write the book off entirely based on an interview, but this platform bashing Linux evangelism is of no use to anyone who is past high school age.

Re:Right tool for the right job

[syousef]

Word is better than TeX/LaTeX?

A hammer is better than a saw?