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Mac mini Review At Macworld
lemonylimey writes "Macworld has the first hands-on review of the new Mac mini along with nicely illustrated step-by-step dissection.
It looks like the mini comes apart easily and (unsuprisingly) uses standard notebook components: a Panasonic DVD-R drive on 'SuperDrive' equipped models, Seagate Momentus 2.5" notebook ATA-100 hard drive and a single, nicely accessible 184 pin DDR DIMM socket. Upgrade options aside, it might not have the clock-for-clock power of the equivalent $499 PC, but you have to ask yourself - If you put them both on a shelf and ask your Mom* to pick one, which one is it going to be? (Yes, I'm sure your Mom is a Doctor of Mathematics and wouldn't buy anything she couldn't run Debian on. You know what I meant.)"
You've always been able to use off-the-shelf RAM, but it's true that recent versions of Mac OS X (apparently not the hardware?) are more sensitive to timing issues. So be careful not to buy the rebranded DIMMs they'll sell you at a 50% discount because they failed all the QA tests. Stick to name-brand RAM, or at least buy from somewhere with a decent return policy, and you'll be fine.
A beowulf cluster of these.
::zombie::
No no, seriously! You could have a little stack of them. You could even built a little pyramid of them, right on your desk! Am I the only one obsessed with this idea!?
Must... purchase... stack of Mac minis...
And here's a bunch of performance benchmarks pitting the Mac mini against a range of other current Macs--not just abstract numbers but real-world tasks (think "17 Meg file"). I wonder how PCs stack up, particularly with Cinebench and the iTunes rip test...
So, what are the reasons to run Linux on Mac Mini? Because you can.
OK, this is just wrong.
1. Linus is not the _only_ person who looks at submitted code for Linux ... there are many people, and i've met some of them. This is just disingenuous to suggest.
2. The kernel source is not available because it's the least complex part of the OS -- it's available partly because it's one of the more complex pieces, and a lot of really smart people who know their stuff in kernel space look at / debug / suggest additions for it.
3. Come on -- on a Linux box, if you don't want to compile from source, use apt or rpm or dselect or whatever.
Hey, I love my Macs (1.33ghz 12" PowerBook, 450mhz Cube, dual 1.25ghz g4) but your points are deceptive -- there are harder methods of doing things on OSX, and easier methods of doing things on Linux. You choose the best method for the desired outcome.
Regards,
John
Falling You - beautiful
How about you stop trolling with the same comments in every Mac mini story on /. ?
Get a life.
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
Had a nice conversation with the project lead for the mac mini this morning at the apple store in the Westfield mall. He said first day sales blew away any computer apple's ever made, by a sizable margin, although the shuffle blew the mini away for first day sales of any apple product ever. He said he was asked, can you make it this small? (10" square)... yes. Can you make it this small? (8" square)... yes. Can you make it this small? (7" square)... maybe. Can you make it this small? (6 1/2" square)... no. Okay, that's the size then.... oh crap! :)
My question is this. What PCs are currently on the market to compete with this? When my wife asks for the "cute little MAC", what real computer can I buy instead?
Personally, I don't think your "wife" really cares what you buy, as long as you keep her properly inflated.
A) I am making this post from a TiBook running Debian. Debian has one of the best PPC ports out there. I think the Mini will most likely run Debian very nicely.
B) Everyone is sick of the stupid clock speed per dollar argument. It's lame. Quit assuming that everyone out there cares about raw CPU power first and foremost, or shut up.
From the article: "As I stated in my previous column, 'machines like the mini or the cheap Dell desktop are underpowered for advanced users, but both will suffice for their target market.'"
Underpowered? What does an "average advanced user" do to need more than a one gigahertz processor? I'm currently running a PII/350, which is a bit slow for my needs (some movies skip a bit and the browsing is not as smooth as I wish it would be), but I'll be quite happy with, let's say, 800 MHz PIII.
I do some programming, some typesetting, edit some sound samples, why should I need more than 1,2 GHz Mac Mini?
Allright, editing half a GB photographs in Photoshop would probably suck on the machine, but that's not "advanced user", thats "professional" in my terms...
For $99 you can purchase Mac OS X and get real live tech support for problems that (probably won't) pop up.
From your comment I am not certain that you realize the $499 Mac mini comes with OS X, there is no need to purchase Mac OS X for $99.
Or am I the one who is confused?
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
I wouldn't be as negative on Linux as you are - surely it should be admitted that the "kids", in the long term, have created a high-quality product that works well for a large variety of applications, especially for knowledgeable users.
In my mind, though, it just doesn't match up well to a bunch of user interface obsessives over at Apple Computer. Can you imagine the meetings, with Steve obsessing on the exact shade of aqua blue to use for the default button on a form? I can imagine hours of bone-grinding tedium for the other folks on the team, while Steve pushes and shoves and demands as close to absolute perfection as we can get on this planet.
I don't see Open Souce folks doing that. They're too nice. They don't really care about the shade of aqua blue on their buttons at all. And none of them have much tolerence for ten hour meetings. They'll just use the same ugly shade Windows does and go on with their lives.
That's why Open Source software is never going to win on the cool factor when pitted against Steve Jobs and pals.
I don't think I'd enjoy working for Steve. But from the outside, the polished perfection he gives his products is second to none. that's the first thing I love about the Apple platform.
The second thing is that it gives you a near-perfect blend of Open Source software for web development, and commercial software for video editing, animation and word processing. So far, the commercial programs for those purposes are superior to their open source alternatives. So you can use open source for what it's great for, and proprietary software for what it's great for.
Neither of those advantages exist in Linux, and they are, broadly speaking, why I'm a Mac user nowadays and not a Linux user. So I join your puzzlement; I don't understand why someone buying into Apple hardware would not want their sofware as well.
So I'd certainly be interested in hearing peoples' responses to this question, and hopefully this less inflammatory post will help get reasonable people out of the woodwork.
D
I know you're trolling, but here's a question for you.
What hard drive controllers are you using in each machine?
If both machines are using ATA-33 or ATA-66 controllers, it's a fair comparison. If the PPro box is using an upgraded controller but the Mac is still using its stock SCSI (which, admittedly, isn't all that great compared to modern ATA, but we ARE talking about a Mac from 1996 here), then this is obviously a very UNfair comparison.
Also, you don't say what OS you're running, but the disk drivers from early PPC Mac OS versions are horribly slow. If the drivers haven't ever been updated since the machine was new, I'm not the least bit surprised that you're seeing very slow disk copies.
Finally, how much RAM does the PPro have?
p
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
Dude, I don't think that's actually Jason Kottke. I linked to it in my original post because it's a pretty well-known troll, or so I thought.
Assuming your wife is after a Mac for the two main reasons why people buy Macs (the OS, and it just works), you're not going to find a PC on the market that compares to the Mac Mini. You can certainly find PC's the same size - just check out the Mini-ITX platform.
However, a preliminary look-through suggests that in this size range, you're going to get more bang for your buck with the Mac Mini. (I'm assuming, that, like most other Mac-disparaging PC users, you're a Megahertz Weenie.)
A good example of what I can find at CappuccinoPC.com is a 1ghz Celeron with only 128MB RAM, a 20GB HD, a CD-ROM drive (as in, no DVD, no burning), and a crap graphics card. For a price tag of $580.
To get it to something comparable to the Mac Mini, you're going to have to upgrade to a 1.26ghz PIII ($155), 256MB RAM ($55), a 40GB HD($30), a CD-RW/DVD combo ($60, $70 for slot loading), and add Windows XP ($119 for Home, $159 for Pro). Meaning that a comparable PC in the same form factor will cost you $920 - $970. And you're still stuck with a crap graphics card. I'm not sure if you get a sound card. On top of all that, 256MB RAM is the most you can get, and all the other upgrades (wireless, bluetooth, etc.) are more expensive than the same upgrades for the Mac Mini.
According to this, you still have to have a Superdrive-equipped computer to burn DVDs directly from iDVD.
According to this, however, the disk images feature would allow you to save your project as a DVD image and then burn the image to a disc with another app.
~Philly
Well, not bad for 0.8 GHz, heh
You can defy gravity... for a short time
It's not just the same comment over and over again, it was also a story last week.
I guess some PC users are just jealous :).
Yaz.
this page says that there's a trick to make iDVD 5 create an image, rather than burn a disk. Also, there's a hack out there to do this in iDVD 4. I used it a year ago and it worked fine. made a plain-vanilla .iso or .dmg or .img (I forget which) so no, it shouldn't be some goofy iDVD-only format. I made images one one mac and burned them on another with Toast. I'm posting this from my combo-drive mini but I haven't installed iLife 05 yet. (Ships with '04 and comes with '05 on a DVD.)
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Jeez, does this need to be spelled out every single time? Yes, OS X is a great OS and a great UNIX. But some people, sometimes, just want to run Linux, and they want to run it on Apple hardware. I will be using my mini as a web server (apache, php, postgres, mysql, gallery, geeklog, and more) and everything I need works fine under OS X. If someone else wants a wsebserver in a tiny package BUT they have the desire or need to do it all in Linux, why shouldn't they?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
I hope you got a laugh out of the other reply to your post, which was an ancient troll. He didn't even update the model numbers and mhz ratings he used, how sloppy was that?
But understand that there are two types of customer. One type, and I fear the most common, looks at the details of a product and tries to compare it to others using a laundry list of features. For instance, a computer with an 80gb hard drive is better than one with 40. One with 512mb is better than one with 256mb. This completely ignores whether the products are well designed and assembled, whether they run MacOS X or Windows, and so on. This type of buyer drives the market because he/she/it is most common. It's much easier to describe something in numbers than in depth.
People who appreciate Apple products tend to look more at the whole product than the specifications, and they realize that while Apple isn't the cheapest company in the world, it makes fabulous things because it sets out from the start to do just that.
The two types of customer really don't understand each other very well, and I think that's why there is so much passion between pro and anti-Apple factions. One point of view simply cannot understand the other.
One thing that does intrigue me is that obvious valid anti-Apple arguments are rarely seen. For instance, you have to re-purchase much of your software if you want to use an Apple computer to its full potential. If you have Office, you need Apple Office. If you have Adobe products, you need to upgrade them. And so on.
The best anti-Apple argument is that many people fear change and going to something different. I've known people like that and they are perhaps the hardest type of person to deal with. This is largely disregarded on Slashdot simply because most Slashdot people are happy to learn about new operating systems and user interfaces, but it is a genuine problem.
So yes, there are lots of trolls and they change but little over the years. Perhaps they are simply envious of the cohesiveness of the Apple community and its obvious love of the products. That's something very unusual in this day and age, and we should celebrate it. Don't kowtow to the God Steve, but don't ignore his virtues either.
D
That is one of the reasons why it is so cheap.
Sorry, no. If Apple really wanted to have a $499 computer, and components and labor cost over $400, they'd just throw in OS X free/underpriced. They're Apple. They can expect the profit on the Mac Mini to exceed any losses by not charging for OS X.
It is software, after all. Copying software has effectively zero marginal cost. The only question is whether to consider the profit as OS X profit or Mac Mini profit.
I have come to the conclusion that I will buying one of these and replacing my lilksys wireless router with it. It's about time I got a legitimate home network setup, and this is a great motivation.
plus, there are ways to get around the idvd restriction.
I have been using mine now for about 50 hours without shuting it off, and I have yet to hear any fan at all (its in my bed room) in fact the case of the Mini itself feels cool to the touch and the power brick just slightly warmer.
The first thing I noticed was lack of an analog monitor connection. This automatically drives up the price for most would be buyers looking to replace their PCs. Most users would rather spend $500 on a new PC and use their existing montior, thna be forced to buy a DVI compliant (read: flat screen) monitor.
True. That why the Mini comes with a DVI-to-VGA adaptor, genius.
In talking to PC users about this, I think what it comes down to is that a lot of PC users primarily stick with PCs because they are familiar with it. They don't Macs because they are unfamiliar, do things differently, and the people wear too damn many black turtlenecks. (Well, honestly, I see nothing wrong with this last reason.) More than that, they see the Mac as a toy.
But when it comes down to it, most PC users I have met who talk about how silly Apple computers are either haven't really even used a Mac, or have only used it for a few days or a week. Most of them don't seem to even realize that Mac OS supports multi-button mice and scroll wheels. Oftentimes, the criticisms aren't researched (I know this because they are wrong). Other times, the criticisms seem to be based on the idea that everyone should have a l33t0 gaming machine or a weather modeling workstation. I am always amused by people who complain about the lack of games available for OS X when the only two games they own are The Sims and Civ3
I suppose it's popular among Mac users to offer a complete psychological breakdown as to why PC users like to rip on Macs so much, but I won't bother. I'll just say that it seems that while I have met a few people who have seriously considered and tried both and ended up choosing Windows because they just prefer the platform (people who need to play Half-Life 2 aside), it was definitely just a few of them.
On the other hand, I know it's not too uncommon for PC users to wonder at how devoted Mac users are to their platform - a column on it shows up in some PC magazine a couple times every year. Here's a hint: it has absolutely nothing to do with SPEC benchmarks, application support, shooting demons with shotguns, or even aesthetics.
I bought my Mac mini this morning (waited in line in the 18 degree temps outside the Apple store in Kansas City so I could be fifth in line!) and have been working with it all day. Of the more interesting things I've noticed: System Profiler indicates that I have 256MB of PC3200 RAM installed... and I thought these things came with PC2700! I am going to buy myself a putty knife and will get back later with info and a picture or two of what I find inside...
For you PC (ab)users (I'm now in recovery on this point!) who are sitting on the fence wanting to get one of these but don't want to loose the functionality of all your Windows software, have no fear. Just go download the Windows Remote Desktop Connector and get cooking. Among the neat features, you can map the drives on your Mac to the remote PC allowing you to move files back and forth between the PC and the Mac with the utmost of ease! :-)
- actually 1GB memory can be had for $85.
l
Overall mini is pretty good, but the disk is roughly like iBook, that is half the speed of eMac, (BTW eMac is a gem, it beats new iMAC G5 in most tests). Going FireWire or USB2 on mini is no solution, they are half as slow as internal even with fast drives (thus 4 times as slow as latest eMac). They have 60Gb/7200 internal on order so check them later to see if this solves disk problem.
http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=33&a=4922
- macintouch has a decent performance review. http://www.macintouch.com/perfpack/comparison.htm
sorry, actually FW on mini is imperceptibly faster than internal, it is USB2 that sucks
You are the one who is confused. That is one of the reasons why it is so cheap.
According to Apple the $499 Mac mini comes with:
- Mac OS X Panther
- iLife '05 (GarageBand, iMovie, iDVD*, iPhoto, iTunes)
- Quicken 2005
- and two games Nanosaur 2 and Marble Blast Gold
* previously, Apple has not included iDVD on systems that do not have a Super Drive, and therefore, no DVD authoring capability.
Thanks for the FUD.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Ps2 keyboards / mice have never been used by macs, so it does require a USB/Keyboard and mouse, Apple just dropped the price of its keyboard/mouse from $49 to $29 because of the mac mini. The Apple keyboard also gives you two USB ports so you dont lose any ports when you hook up a keyboard and a mouse. Most people will need to get a new keyboard and mouse but most people wouldnt complain because its not that expensive.
Also the Dvi to Vga adapter comes with the computer so ANY monitor will work, vga or dvi.. Hell Im going to hook it up to my HDTV..
And Apple is just trying to convert PC users that are scared to give up their new $80 dollar wireless usb keyboard and mouse combo they just bought.
Also with the Mac Mini Coming with a free Printer http://apple.com/promo they are going to sell a shit load of these babies.
keanmarine.com
You can use the free Patchburn to enable burning from Apple's iApps with nonsupprted burners.
Even in the PC universe, PS/2 is getting increasingly rare: pretty much everything you'll see on the shops is USB now. My ThinkPad has no PS/2 socket either. Here's an example of a $25 PS2/USB convertor. I expect you could get cheaper. It only takes up one USB port too: neat.
The DVI->VGA adapter DOES come in the box, like you ask.
If you already own a KVM switcher, you're right, the migration away from PS/2 is a pain: but USB/VGA KVMs appear to be the basic choice in mainstream outlets now, from my brief investigations.
You're missing the point. This is supposed to be a bare-bones machine. Include both adapters and you'd have a $530 base configuration instead of $499, adding expense for items not everyone will need. You don't want to know how many unnecessary adapters, cords, etc. I've gotten over the years. All wasted money.
I'd rather have the adapters separate.
O'Reilly has a useful article on Mac Mini information for Linux / Windows users.
The PC Weenies: 11 Years of Online Tech 'Too
ATA/100 means that the interface has a top speed of 100MBps and it was the last official ATA standard before Serial-ATA. ATA/133 was just something Maxtor cooked up as a marketing ploy.
Internal capacity isn't the upgrade you should be looking for on the Mac Mini. Since it uses a 2.5" Notebook HD you're pretty much limited to 100GB, which is a pretty expensive upgrade for gaining 20GB of space. My plan is to dump the 4,200rpm or 5,400rpm drive in the mini and replace it with one of the new 2.5" 7,200rpm drives. If I need more external storage, I'll just buy a Firewire HD.
For what it's worth, I managed to easily and quickly open up my Mini with a simple putty knife (and no scratches to the plastic or aluminum!) and sure enough, there was a 256MB stick of Samsung PC3200 RAM (Apple advertises these as coming with PC2700). I removed that stick and replaced it with a 512MB PC3200 (CL 2.5) Mushkin stick (my WinXP Pro box will have to do with only one of two of these sticks for now), replaced the cover and booted up. The performance increase was noticeable and immediate; the NewEgg.com order for a 1024MB stick of PC3200 goes out tomorrow! (Supposedly the Mini will only use PC3200 at PC2700 speed, but when the PC3200 is only $4.50 more at NewEgg, why not get the faster chip?)
/. and I presume nobody reading this is all too interested in either the RAM stick that was in my Mini or the putty knife used to open up the box...
I did snap a couple pictures with my Nikon D70 but I decided against posting them since there are already several links to pictures of deconstructed minis in various places on
Yep. The Command (Apple) keys works as the Windows key. The volume controls even work on XP it seems.
I am a switcher, and I got a $19.99 adapter for my mac-mini which changes PS2 keyboard/mouse into USB. Works perfect. It comes with a DVI->VGA adapter.
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
I was under the impression that you could not use a windows iPod with a MAC ...Is that true?
Of course you can't, iPods don't have ethernet jacks. They don't get assigned a MAC. You can use the USB or Firewire connection and plug them into a Windows PC, Linux PC, or Macintosh, however. Those should all have a MAC if their ethernet is plugged in.
Well, I was being polite, of course, but you could also say I was focusing on the root cause - because they don't understand each other, they think the other side is stupid. It's almost like they're different cultures.
Once upon a time, a computer was not a commodity, and the various brands of computer were truly unique and special things. I miss those days, and of course Apple Computer is now the sole heir to that tradition.
Digital camera makers also package Photoshop Elements in that way. And when I bought Macromedia Flash/Education Edition (I'm working on multimedia projects for education nowadays and was eligible), it was also Mac+PC. I don't know if the regular (non-education) CD was Mac+PC, but the education one certainly was.
D
I love my new mac mini, the only time I have ever heard the fan was when I was running catman in the background of the terminal while doing a bunch photoshop stuff at the same time. The fan was barely noticible compared to my dell across the room.