Real Pays For Legal MP3 Playback On Linux

kforeman (aka Kevin Foreman, GM of Helix RealNetworks, Inc.) writes "As part of the free RealPlayer 10 for Linux, Real has paid Thomson for a legal MP3 playback license and then includes it at no cost as part of the newly released RealPlayer 10. As I speak to people, many are under the false impression that MP3 playback patent and royalty rights are free, since there are open source implementations of MP3 playback available. Not true. Nonetheless, we are glad to do our part of making the Linux desktop a first class citizen by legally providing MP3 playback to users via our new RealPlayer."

Comments

Spyware on Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Will this introduce spyware into Linux?

I notice the page signature reads "Shit Happens"

hmm...

Strange...

[Anonymous Coward]

"making the Linux desktop a first class citizen"

Shouldn't that last bit read "corporate whore?"

Distributions?

[dorward]

I wonder if Real are positioning themselves to get their client distributed with distributions. We might finally see Fedora (et al) with an mp3 player.

I wonder what the license says about redistributing the client? Would Fedora et al be able to distribute it?

In the meantime, I'll stick to Gentoo since they are happy to provide source code for all sorts of mp3 players.

Re:Distributions?

[Nichotin]

"We" should be careful with bundling proprietary applications that are free to use. You end up using all the proprietary applications, and freedom will vanish. It will also slow down Linux adoption on other platforms if the applications people use are proprietary.

Re:Distributions?

[mystik]

Your correct, but you have to remember which freedoms the zealots are fighting for. They're fighting for the right to modify, improve and redistribute software.

Unfortunatly, most of the general public has no use for these freedoms, since they're not software developers.

Software like realplayer can legally be distributed for free because Real, Inc. has done the legal footwork to license other codecs. This makes Helix player "the best choice" by default since no open source alternative can legally exist. (thanks to patents and what not)

Re:Distributions?

[jc42]

Ok, people fall into at least 1 of 2 camps.
1. Zealot: use Free software no matter how painful.
2. "Normal": use whatever software does the best job, is easiest to use, etc.


No, #2 should be called "geek". The real definition of "normal" is:

3. "Normal": Use whatever came with the computer they bought because it was heavily advertised and "everyone uses it". If they can't find software to do the job, they copy some app from a buddy's machine, or as a last resort laboriously download something from whatever web site their browser directed them to.

A major part of the problem with the "market" arguments is that for most people, there really is no market for software. That is, people don't decide in any meaningful sense what software to use, and they don't make informed choices among competing apps (or OSs). They are totally baffled by the supposed "market", and mostly just use whatever someone offers them.

In the computing field, doing comparison shopping immediately qualifies one for the "geek" label.

Stay away from Linux

[Dancin_Santa]

Real, all these operating systems are yours, except Linux. Do not attempt any loadings onto Linux.

Re:MP3 Playback IS Free...

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a sizeable difference between being able to do it and being able to do it legally.

Real

[DenDave]

Noble of them.. however we prefer to use non-proprietary stuff though.. So, ogg-vorbis is the way.. Now if Real were to use ogg in their commercial products so (and maybe challenge the ipod with ogg player hooked up to their online music store???) we wouldn't need proprietary licenses then we would all bow down and hail the penguin lova!

But, but... [lip shaking]

[ceeam]

Real are supposed to be evil! And it turns out they read slashdot! [eyes crossing. blackout]

How many times do I have to license it?

[pedestrian crossing]

I have a SB Live! card that has hardware mp3 decoding built-in, but the linux drivers support it. I assume I paid for a license as part of the purchase price of the card. I feel no qualms about using LAME, etc. and in fact they are doing a great service to those of us who already paid but are unable to use that capablility on our OS of choice...

player not free, but ...

[scharkalvin]

The patent holder for the mp3 codic has never gone after distributors of "free" mp3 players, so long as they were not being used in a for profit product. So download the source and build it for yourself..no worries. (Not true with mp3 ENCODERS, however you can still download bladeenc or lame sources). However because this limits your freedom you won't find an MP3 player in Debain main. Since Real won't give you the source, it isn't 'free' either, again Debain won't distribute it, even if Real says they can.

Re:player not free, but ...

[giantsfan89]

you won't find an MP3 player in Debain main

You sir are wrong.

Debian includes several MP3 players, but no MP3 *encoders*. To rip to MP3 on Debian, you must download the sources and compile the ripper yourself.

I hope that this makes it into the Helix Player, which has RPMs (convertable to debs via alien).

Don't need a license for personal use anyway

[sepluv]

From Thomson's MP3 Licensing FAQ:

no license is needed for private, non-commercial activities (e.g., home-entertainment, receiving broadcasts and creating a personal music library), not generating revenue or other consideration of any kind or for entities with an annual gross revenue less than US$ 100 000.00.

That applies to decoding and encoding.

Also, does anyone know were the patent on decoding is so we can check whether it is valid (in the USA--it is obviously invalid in the free (i.e.: non-US) world)?

And, if you don't want to be sued, use a free and better lossy format (e.g.: Ogg Vorbis for music or Ogg Speex for speech).

Re:Don't need a license for personal use anyway

[Lumpy]

And, if you don't want to be sued, use a free and better lossy format (e.g.: Ogg Vorbis for music or Ogg Speex for speech).


you mean if you do not want to use your portable devices anymore use OGG.

I love ogg, but it is worthless to 90% of us that use mp3.

my car stereo does not support it, my home stereo's high end player does not support it and the 5 different portable players in the house does not support it.

therefore it is not a choice.

Until people pester the hell out of the player makers to support ogg, it will stay a special segment that very few use.

players like the audiotron and other home stero players can support it but the developers are being asses and refuse to add it. many portables certianly have the power to use it and again, the makers are intentionally refusing to use it.

until large numbers of people ask for OGG support and flood the support channels of the player makers it will never be supported.

I suggest that many here pice a few mp3 player makers and get at least 5 friends to mail the support email address asking for ogg support.

Until then, OGG is not the answer to anyone.

oh well

[indianropeburn]

This still doesn't make Real Player a good choice for media playback.

Depends on where you are from

[shurdeek]

The MP3 "license" is of course for a software patent, and hence only enforceable in USA and Japan at the moment. Check out the previous news "EU Software Patents Delayed Again". If your are a developer living in EU, this doesn't apply to you.

Yours sincerely,
shurdeek

Re:buffered stuff..

[sepluv]

I repeat the grandparent's post: it doesn't bring anything to Linux.

Only if you are in the USA and are encoding/decoding MP3s for certain commercial purposes (as Thomson explicitly let you do it for personal use) does this patent apply to you.

Even then, you are highly unlikely to be sued by Thomson and can claim ignorance of their stupid (and possibly invalid) patent claims.

Re:no surprise

[sepluv]

If you don't like people "borrowing" your stuff, keep it to yourself.

Actually the whole point of a patent is that you invent something that takes time and effort and you tell everyone about it instead of keeping it a trade secret. As a reward for not keeping it to yourself, you are given a monopoly on it for a few years (stopping others from using your idea).

Of course, this patent is not really a valid patent as it is not on an invention (and didn't take time and effort and there's probably prior art and it would likely not have been kept a trade secret).

Re:no surprise

[fireboy1919]

How did it become a standard, though? It became a standard because free mp3 players or advertising revenue based mp3 players didn't have to pay a fee. Then the company changed that policy.

In other words, because they weren't enforcing their IP rights, people figured they were up for grabs. Otherwise, nobody would have used mp3 at all. It's not like its the only encoding technique of its kind; every step in mp3 was actually invented by someone else, and each step is freely available.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you give away an intellectual property right, isn't taking it back legally questionable?

http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/mp3-licensing-faq.html

[Anonymous Coward]

Excerpted from the URL above:

II.a) Software DECODERS

*****

Q. I wish to distribute a FREE MPEG Layer-3 software decoder on my WEB-site. Do I have to pay royalties?

A. For the FREE distribution of decoders we do not charge a royalty. At the Fraunhofer IIS and OPTICOM web-sites you can find the players we have developed and which may be downloaded for FREE also. Fraunhofer IIS and OPTICOM do not give any technical support for the free players. Emails complaining about bugs in free software will not be answered!

More in general, as long as desktop software decoders are distributed free-of-charge for personal use, no license fee is expected. However, in all cases we expect that MPEG Layer-3 products reference the licensors, like "MPEG Layer-3 audio compression technology licensed by Fraunhofer IIS and THOMSON multimedia".

*****

Q. And what if I sell the software decoder?

A. In this case, the royalty per decoder is US $ 1,00. We just remark that we have not asserted our patents against decoders of which less than 10 000 units have been sold.

Re:No idea

[anagama]

I'll admit to being a Real skeptic, but ... I use RP10 for one purpose: This American Life. Despite being a skeptic, I must say that RP10 takes up little screen space, has nice controls, and I've never been subjected to any ads.

Re:Props to them

[IamTheRealMike]

Apple isn't benevolent in the slightest. They haven't supported Linux whatsoever, and have actively required companies writing software for Linux to license their patents.

Sorry, but of all of them only Real is actually trying to improve - Apple just coast along on the basis of their fans ludicrous brand loyalty, Microsoft coast along on the basis of their monopoly and piles of cash, meanwhile Real has been contributing to open source and cleaning up their software, as well as making it portable to Linux. I say, good for them, and I'm certainly willing to give them a second chance.

I actually have to give them credit.

[Ayanami Rei]

They have always put out their product on linux, it usually worked more consistently than a flash plugin, and IIRC it was always declawed (because they knew how picky we are about that sort of thing, and that'd we'd notice).

Not that I used it all that much what with mplayer and all, but it was nice to think they weren't complete jerks.

Re:buffered stuff..

[pclminion]

Yes... WinAmp tried very hard to look like a physical device that never even existed.

Does a word processing program have a picture of a typewriter that you have to click on in order to type characters? So why the fuck does an MP3 player have to look like a stereo deck?