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Kitchen Internet Kiosk?
ZeLonewolf asks: "My parents are remodeling and greatly expanding their kitchen, and my mom would like to add a kitchen internet kiosk that would allow her to look up recipes online and watch TV. Since this is a kitchen, the display and input devices should be appropriate for a kitchen environment, i.e. resistant to dust and moisture. To eliminate the need for a mouse I priced out a touch-screen monitor for $600. The keyboard would need to be sealed, something like ThinkGeek's roll-up keyboard. I haven't been able to find pre-made kiosks for this purpose. Four years ago, the Audrey internet appliance would have been perfect for this sort of thing. Is there anything modern that comes close?"
How about a toaster computer? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adamb29/project_page _1.htm
Someone please set up a mirror before slashdotting the poor guy.
It would be better to seperate the TV and the computer. You will waste time and money trying to get them into one device. Get a cheap TV and wall mount it. Get a cheap computer (or laptop) and put it wherever. Maybe a toughbook?
/.
I'd like all of my data to be on one screen, too. It is just cheaper (and faster) to have more than one. If you can afford to put it on one, you wouldn't need this post on
That roll-up keyboard isn't sealed. It can certainly take a spill, but it's not submersible.
It is all one piece of rubber except near the cord entry, so you may be able to use some silicone to seal that up and get an entirely sealed keyboard. But also remember that the rubber on this thing isn't very thick or strong at all.
Ebay usually has Audreys available, don't forget the USB ethernet adapter. FWIW, I've got one in my kitchen, it works fine, but it's browser is pretty limited: no javascript/java, which may make some of the popular recipe sites hard to use. If you're doing your own recipe DB though, no problem.
As the other poster said, get a separate TV.
Check out the PowerDesk Kitchen made by PowerDesk for a kiosk/kitchen module...
The FingerWorks Touch-Stream keyboard is actually just two touch pads and also works as a mouse and will interpret hand gestures for certain operations, such as mouse scrolling. It is dust-proof and probably water resistant (or could probably be made water-proof with a bit of work).
Here's the link:
http://fingerworks.com/lp_product.html
Unfortunately it is difficult to type on it without looking at the keys. It took me about a week to get comfortable with it and six months to approach my old typing speed. On the other hand, it would probably work well for somone who types with hunt and peck style, or who constantly looks at the keyboard when they type.
This keyboard has saved me from RSI in the fingers (my wrists were fine).
It costs about $350.
Religion is poison to rationality, and we lose sight of that at our own peril. -- Lurker2288
I still use my Audrey! It's great for displaying recipes while cooking, seeing who called recently, checking the weather or to start playing mp3's through my home stereo.
This is the simple menu I created for my Audrey:
My Audrey
Live web cams
I remember seeing my dentist using a plastic wrapping over his keyboard, it seems like a good soultion if it's needed to type with dirty fingers. The plastic is easy to change; i think it'a roll of plastic behind the keyboard, so just pull off the old dirty plastic and you have a new layer.
I have no idea where to buy something like this though... Shouldn't be too difficult to make yourself.
good move, at the rate of a cheap USB keyboard for $15-20, you'll catch up on the price of that monitor in no time. How miserably coated with gunk do you think that keyboard is going to be before it fails? Unless the psuedo-chef is slopping stuff around like the countertop hasn't had a decent meal in a month, you can save a bundle, and not have to worry about cleaning all the crap off the display every time you touch it.
Touch screens are one of those things that sound neat but in fact aren't. Also, the price seems a bit steep for the utility. I've seen new projectors for close to $600 (not that one would be appropriate for most kitchens)
As for the keyboard, the one you have selected looks really neat, and I personally think it would be cool to have one. However, I might question the usability aspects of it. We have a public area computer, and the number one concern with the keyboard is being able to move it around easily. In that respect, there are two problems with your selected keyboard. First, it has a wire and this can potentially be very inconvenient if you are trying to get it out of the way to clear up counter space. Secondly, it is floppy not rigid. If you have to flatten out the keyboard everytime you move it this will be annoying. Additionally, you couldn't type with the keyboard in your lap.
We have a wireless keyboard with an integrated trackball mouse. This is handy because there is only one device and it is easy to move around. These are hard to find, and the down side is that all pointing devices in keyboards suck. To offset the suckage but retain the benefit of an all in one wireless device, I would recommend setting up a combo keyboard and a separate wireless mouse.
As for spillage with the keyboard, this is a real concern, but I think you're probably going to have to just live with the risk. If you find a particularly suitable keyboard, you might want to buy two. Also, be aware that not all serious spills are fatal. I dropped a coke on our wireless one and we were able to crack it open and clean it out.
...and use a Mac Mini. Seriously.
This sounds like a job for the Mac Mini!
Two things.
1 - Keyboards are cheap. Very cheap. There are many sub $20 keyboards out there that have better feel than any of the fancy "sealed" ones I have ever used.
2 - Standard keyboards are amazingly hard to kill.
I dub thee... Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, Beater of Ass.
You can go with a touchscreen and a waterproof USB keyboard, stash the mouse to the side for when you need it, and strap a mini under the cupboard. It'll fit nicely and pretty darn unobtrusively assuming the cabinets are deep enough to mount lights underneath.
You can mount the touchscreen alongside, on a swing mount that can let them stow it underneath the cupboard when not using the computer. I saw something similar done last week with a TV on This Old House.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
If you do then this is the toy for you. I ran across it a while ago and bookmarked it for my post-lottery kitchen remodel.
iCEBOX FlipScreen
First i'll suggest the obvious -- a flat panel iMac. It's not water/splash proof, but it fits the role quite nicely. Not too expensive considering what you get too.
A more practical solution (for you PC users out there) is the Sony Vaio PCV-W series. This is an all-in-one series (similar to the G5 iMac) with a built-in fold-down keyboard. It's pretty good for kitchen use because the LCD is covered by an eigth-inch thick piece of plexiglass (or lexan. i'm not sure) -- you'd need a hammer/very sharp object to damage the screen. Also worth noting that the screen has a fairly 'wide' aspect ratio. It should be able to fit under any overheard cabinetry you've got.
The fold-down keyboard is very cool too and perfect for kitchen use, because it stays out of the way when you're not using it. The only downside is that it's not splashproof -- sony may have fixed this in later models than the one I have.
It's been recently discontinued, so you'll have to search around for them. Still, it's a solid choice for a kitchen PC.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Lilliput 7" touchscreens are only $279 at www.mp3car.com. Prefect for and undercabinet mounting. Combine that with a mini-itx board and you have a great kiosk or mp3 car player.
Other links of interest:
Linux Touch Screen HOWTO
EPIA HOWTO
Gentoo EPIA HOWTO
Nehemiah Hardware Entropy Generator
VIA PadLock support for Linux
It's small size and available bluetooth for wireless keyboard, wireless card builtin, not sticking out the back, etc. etc. seems perfect for this application....
Also if you put the keyboard and mouse into a air-tight cabinet or drawer of some sort you won't need to worry about whether they are themselves damage proof, ie: make a pullout drawer with a hidden surface on a roller track.. put a rubber seal around the drawer and keep it closed when not in use. If you go with wireless you won't have to worry about cords... also put the Mac mini under it in a air-tight cabinet under the drawer...
Use screensaver skins over the display if possible (don't know if they would work with touch sensitive, pressure sensitive for sure but IR grid screens may be affected)... the screensaver skins come in many sizes and are popular for covering laptop screens and peel off when they get too dirty.
well.. my 0.2
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Believe it or not, o moderators, that wasn't a troll. Whoever modded my parent down is just an anti-Mac radical fanatic. A mini is a very good candidate for use in a kitchen - provided you don't store it on the counter where it would be exposed to the elements. But no PC is really good for the job, either. You need to go under-cabinet for the safest use.
The only other really viable candidate for the job besides a Mac mini is one of the super-slim Mini-ITX boxes (I've actually got one of those that I use as a server at home). But to run nicely in an environment like a kitchen, you need either fanless or minimal fans, and you can't put much horsepower into one of those and run fanless (mine's a VIA C3 processor at 533 MHz). And even the super-slim Mini-ITX chassis is way bigger than the Mac mini.
Audreys were good for this application, but I think they're too limited for what they are. I have a friend who liked to hack them to be useful - finally he just packed it in and reworked his cabinetry to stash a Dell inside, with a wireless keyboard and mouse and a flat panel on the counter.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
It's a bit pricey, it's based on WinCE, and it's on its fourth or fifth "focus shift", redesign, and/or corporate parent since I first found it years ago (researching alternatives to WebTV), but the iCEBOX may be the last remaining "internet appliance" on the market.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
A friend installed a Sony ICF-CD555TV (small screen, builtt for the kitchen), and also carries a notebook around from room-to-room. I agree with numerous other responses: don't try to combine TV and computer. I think the Sony device takes video inputs, so you could route your computer display to it. Seems like a geeky thing to do. (Which is probably good.) You could also simply print a fresh copy of your computerized recipe to spill things on while cooking... :)
And what is the difference between a kitchen and a hospital lab? Nothing. And labs have tons of computer equipment.
The environment in a kitchen is nothing special ... use a cheap keyboard and an optical mouse (the trackball gums up) on a low-end computer. Adding a TV card so they can watch TV is probably not a good idea. Unless the best location for the TV is also OK for the monitor, two displays would be better.
Don't forget a printer for the recipes ... stick it in a pullout drawer to keep it clean
With the advent of PVRs and PVR software such as MythTV, it's a damn good idea to combine a computer and a TV.
I think at some point someone was working on a MythTV module called MythRecipe even...
The nice thing about Myth is that the kitchen kiosk doesn't need a coaxial drop - A cat5 or 802.11g connection will give you both net access for bringing up recipes and the ability to stream video from a central recording box that contains the tuners.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I posted this the last time Slashdot talked about kitchen computers, might as well re-post...
:-)
_______
The problems with a kitchen computer are numerous:
- Space - No one wants to give up counter space for a computer, and besides it would be a pain to lean over (you don't sit down very much in the kitchen).
- Cleanliness - a keyboard and mouse would be ruined in short order.
- Noise - maybe a bit of a minor issue, but it's always better to have less noise.
I always thought the following would be cool:
Hardware
- Motherboard - a mini-ITX motherboard would be perfect (low energy, possible fanless operation, tiny, integrated everything).
- Enclosure - a slim box that would mount sideways, screwed to the side inside of one of the upper cabinets.
- Cooling - if heat is a issue, a plenum could run on the inside of the cabinet from holes on the bottom of the cabinet through the enclosure to the ceiling. A fan to draw air through (as well as the power supply, ethernet, etc.) would all be up out of sight
- Screen - an LCD panel with touch-like screen, mounted portrait layout, right on the cabinet door (so that it is right at eye level, and out of reach of the small kids).
- Pen - whether it is a true touch screen (like a PDA) or a wired light pen, I don't know, but this would be the primary input device.
- Speakers & microphone - small, slim models also mounted into the cabinet door.
- USB/Firewire connections - for quick upload & download to/from a PDA, camera, memory keychain, etc.
- another PC - running as a server.
Note that I don't want a hard drive, keyboard, or mouse. The most work in this would be physically installing the screen & speakers in the door so it looks good and the wires flex properly with the door swing, and with designing the motherboard enclosure and plenum. Oh, and wiring everything through the ceiling.
Software
- X-terminal setup - this machine would be boot-on-LAN, and all storage would be over Ethernet - run as much as possible on the server end.
- Handwriting recognition - since the machine would never be used for entering in large amounts of data (I don't code while cooking), there is no need for a keyboard (most entry would be on the server, and this would mostly be a "retrieval" device) - but there should be a handwriting code for when you need to enter in text, maybe like Palm's graffiti.
- Applications - I want this machine to do the following functions
- Organizer - standard PDA stuff (calendar, address, to-do, notes, calculator, etc.)
- Recipe database - duh! (and actually useful, given the screen's location)
- Message centre - retrieve both voice and email messages
- "Thumbtack" board - leave notes for others in the house (vocal or written)
- Browser - access to the Web and local files
- Live Broadcast - you could access TV, radio, etc. with server-based tuners
- Stored Entertainment - play back mp3, divx, etc.
No word processing, spreadsheets, photo editing, games, etc. here! Just stuff that makes sense in the kitchen (communication, passive information and entertainment).
Even if all the pieces were in place for doing everything I want here, there would be a lot of work to build an interface that would pull it all together nicely. All apps would be set up for as little data entry as possible (tapping on buttons should be the main interaction).
Of course, all this is way beyond my abilities, time, and cash flow to actually do. But that's my dream kitchen machine.
____________
Since I posted that over 2 years ago, nothing's changed. The configuration is still exactly what I want, and I still have no way to build it
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
We have one in our kitchen. It's decent. It looks nice, it doesn't take up a lot space. We have the keyboard mounted under a counter - it's got an integrated pointing device. The downside is that it's really not upgradeable as it has mostly non-standard parts.
You can find them on ebay. Not cheap, but not crazy expensive either.
Stroker Ace: "I know you! You're Audrey Meadows!".
Aubrey James: "No, I'm Audrey James... AUBREY James... Schmuck!"
-FB0
Ligaguinggligagiggagoogoogwillgo
I have an old P133 laptop booting to a Knoppix image copied to its hard drive sitting on my kitchen counter. I have a linksys wireless card that Knoppix recognizes providing the network link. I also started a Recipants database (google it) so we could save our favorite recipes and look them up from the laptop.
It is slow, but I've recently found a way to significantly boost its speed -- VNC to the 1.4 GHz machine upstairs. Running mozilla on the 133 MHz processor is painful, but the old processor runs a VNC client just fine. Launch the client in full screen mode and it's just like a 10x processor upgrade!
Because it is an old laptop and I got it for next to nothing (with a non-functional spare to cannibalize parts from), I've got no problem if there is a kitchen disaster such as "P133 al forno" or "Toshiba surprise".
the whole askslashdot was built to give "gimme a mac-mini as the answer... and solve the input somehow, like suggest an optical one button mouse" as the answer.
however.. flour.. flour in your precious mini. the g4 cube would have worked find in the kitchen but think again of the mini. FLOUR IN YOUR MINI, STUCKING IN THERE. flour in the tiiiny whirling fan. so you'd at least want to stick in the cupboard or somewhere and it becomes quite irrelevant if it's few cm's bigger or not.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
will you please stop...we're sick of hearing about your closet mac fetish. We've answered this question many times, if it really is for your wife just get her what she wants...if it's for you just get it anyways, no one will judge you.
And if you really must get a PC just place it in a cabinet somewhere and never look at it.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
No, seriously:
http://www.lginternetfamily.co.uk/fridge.asp
I could only find a UK link for it, but it seems like it might serve what you want, although I'm not sure about watching TV...
- Built-in TV tuner for watching TV broadcasts
- Built-in MP3 player for downloading music
- Internet Radio for listening to radio stations
- Built-in video camera for taking still photos
- Built-in CCD camera
.sigs are for losers
But get rid of roll up keyboard and have a virtual keyboard overlaid.
It is a touch screen after all...
When you get it up have it all nice and working with linux drivers ecetera (for touch screen) whipe up a knoppix distro and I will love to slap it in my kitchen.
Watch porn while having a pot noodle. haut cuisine or what.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
To my experience, a number of regular brand keyboards (esp. the heavier Cherry ones) are dishwasher-resistant without mentioning it. Get one of those and just throw them in the dishwasher once in a while.
And don't get a TV for the kitchen! TV programs suck anyway, and why another TV set in the kitchen? Rather get one for the bathroom... .)
I've seen these metal keyboards used in outdoor kiosks before. You'd have to come up with a housing to mount it in but it would look pretty cool.
The Internet couldn't tell a good bit from a bad bit if it bit it on its naughty bits.
I suggest getting a little TV and mounting it under a cupboard. Get a printer for a PC in another room and bring recipes to the kitchen that way.
-Peter
Some of us in NYC order our groceries from freshdirect.com. Their ordering web site is where I keep my grocery list - no need for the paper-refridgerator-magnet thing anymore. But I'm a lazy bastard who hates to walk to the other room to put butter on the list. Gimme a browser in my kitchen and my life would be complete! (A beer fridge in the living room wouldn't hurt either).
o-sl-o
- The Kessel run is for nerf herders. I can circumnavigate the entire Central Finite Curve in a lot less than 12 parse
Due to previous employment with a retail organization, I have one of these and was planning on setting it up in my kitchen for the same purpose; Well, minus the TV part. You should be able to find some on E-bay. NCR 7454 POS Workstation
Get a Transnote and a roll of Saran Wrap.
flour in the tiiiny whirling fan
Uh. No true Apple user would just stick their computer on the counter. You're obviously supposed to put the thing inside a hermetically sealed container, use a wireless keyboard and mouse, use wifi to talk to an inferior PC driving the monitor (unless it's a Mac monitor, in which case it goes in the hermetically sealed container), power the thing through induction, and cool it using an air conditioning unit. This is a Mac after all.
And to the Apple astroturfing gang (and not to the poster I'm replying to), it's cost you a sale with me. I was going to buy a computer to play WoW on, and it was going to be a Mac, just so I didn't have to pay money to Microsoft, but I'm going to use Win2k on a PC now, probably with either vmware, or if that's not fast enough, I'll burn a static disk image so it can't fuck up. This time, astroturfing whores, you just get the cum on your face instead of the cum and the money.
Here it is:
2 9/picture_gallery.htm
http://mywebpages.comcast.net.nyud.net:8090/adamb
http://www.uq.edu.au/ben/Cheapo_Fridge_Kiosk.jpg This cost $120 for the refridgerator and $80 for the PC h/ware. It is now the most used terminal in the house. * NOTE the cheap Russian sweets wrapper collection on the freezer panel adds flair and colour :)