Video Formats for non-Windows Users?

ccdotnet asks: "I look after a small web site for a rising sports star. We have a small number of short videos in .WMV (9) format available for download. These .WMV files are typically 3-5 MB in size (we do a "low res" and a "hi res" version). Each video is typically 1-2 minutes and 320x240. The site gets maybe 100 visitors per day. Our outbound hosting bandwidth is _very_ limited, so although we are keen to cater for non-Windows users (around 7% of our visitors), I've struggled to find a suitable video format which doesn't blow the size of the file right out. Ideally I would like to keep these files at a similar size but at the same time want to maintain a reasonable video quality. Are users of other platforms just out of luck? What non-Windows/Mac video formats can people recommend so that I can deliver this content to people who can't play .WMV for one reason or another?" A few years ago, playing .WMV files might have been problematic for users who didn't use either a Macintosh or a Windows-based operating system. Now, with MPlayer and its derivatives making strides, it's not as much of an issue. Of course, there are still .WMV files that don't play well in Mplayer, but what suggestions would you have for creating Mplayer-safe .WMVs as well as other, more cross-platform friendly formats?

Comments

Xvid

[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong with Xvid? It plays on Windows and Linux (and other things).

If you're concerned about bandwidth, why not Coral Cache things?

Re:Xvid

[gl4ss]

it isn't? getting footage into xvid on windows is pretty much as straightforward as into any other with the 'standard' tools.

if you research it a bit. like, google for 5 minutes.

had to find a way to convert REAL to .avi.. could have just chosen different codec and encoded it to xvid too.

OR.. you could have gone and READ THE FAQ:

How do I encode using XviD?

There are lot of good advises available for win32 users there:
http://www.doom9.org/xvid.htm
http://www. doom9.org/gknot-main4.htm

Unix users can have a look at mencoder/transcode documentations/forums/mailin

Quicktime is cross-platform

[bigtallmofo]

Quicktime might be the best compromise. It's cross-platform, has reasonable file sizes, reasonable quality, etc.

Re:Quicktime is cross-platform

[gl4ss]

it's also nagware - that costs 30 bucks.
also they don't offer version for xp without itunes anymore(on their site at least).

and officially cross platform if you count windows and mac os(x) as the platforms that exist..

xvid, and give them a link to videolan client or something, put up some googleads and go look for some cheap bandwith or a sponsor.

Re:Quicktime is cross-platform

[DebianDog]

You can also un-nag QT by setting your system date ahead when prompted to upgrade to the pro version.

Pick a time in 2008 - click OK - Do it again in 2008 ;-)

Re:Quicktime is cross-platform

[Yaztromo]

Quicktime might be the best compromise. It's cross-platform, has reasonable file sizes, reasonable quality, etc.

I'm a big QuickTime fan. It's probably the best container format out there.

But that's the problem -- it's a container format, and not a Codec.

I think what the requester needs is a good cross-platform container format and Codec, in which case MP4 (which is based on QuickTime's container format) is probably the best bet for cross-platform access.

Or, as much as I hate to say it, Real format. I'm not a Real fan, but their player does run natively on Windows, Mac OS, and Linux, and can be made to run on OS/2 systems if you're so inclined.

Yaz.

Re:Quicktime is cross-platform

[mr_burns]

and officially cross platform if you count windows and mac os(x) as the platforms that exist..

Quicktime is an open file format. Anything that has mpeg-4 support can support quicktime (if the developers choose to extend the parser) because mpeg adopted the quicktime format to create mpeg-4. I think what you're thinking of is codecs. The codecs aren't always cross platform. But when you encode your movie you have a choice as far as which one you use. So if you wanted a quicktime movie that played on linux you would probably just choose h.263 or motion jpeg or somesuch instead of sorensen 3 or apple video.

That being said, if you're using quicktime in your production chain and you want to be able to play cross platform, export to mpeg-4, h.263. It'll produce a movie that plays in WMP, Real, Qt, Mplayer and VLC.

Re:Quicktime is cross-platform

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

Make sure you close your calendar/appointment program first... I did this at work once before and got about a billion reminders for recurring meetings throughout the year and into next.

For bandwidth management...

[PincheGab]

Why don't you try what others have done: Istead of a straight download, provide a BitTorrent seed? There was a recent story about this on ./ IIRC...

Re:For bandwidth management...

[ahecht]

Many people, especially those on certain univeristy or corporate networks, cannot use BitTorrent.

Re:For bandwidth management...

[Tibor the Hun]

It's a small site too.

How would you explain to your cousin to download Azureus, update JVM, download the file, put it in Azureus, and leave it running for a few days?

Direct download is the better solution than torrent in some situations.

lots of choices

[supersuckers]

The two that come to mind the quickest are xvid and divx. Beyond that, check out http://www.videohelp.com/ for a lot more info on video codecs.

Try DivX or the OSS codec XViD

[TPoise]

Try DiVX or the open source codec that competes with it called XViD

These produce very high quality along with very good compression.

For some intro how-to's, check out Doom9.org

XViD is on:
- Win32 (MSVC, cygwin, mingw)
- GNU/Linux x86/ppc/sparc/ia64
- MacOSX
- *BSD
- Solaris 8 Ultra Sparc
- BeOS

That covers most of the major operating systems that your users will encounter.

QT or MPG

[digitalgimpus]

I did some video work for a very well known media company... one 99% of slashdotters here would likely recognize.

Here was my analysis:

QuickTime had the best quality, bandwidth, compatibility for the largest target audience. The player is of equal quality on platforms, and performs very well.

RealPlayer supports more Platforms that QT, but it's player is at different levels on different platforms, so customizing the appearance of functionality may cause some funny behavior on some operating systems.

If you want to make sure 100% of the audience can see the media, mpg is still the best format... though be aware that it's not exactly prefered.

IMHO if you want to get your entire audience, push towards quicktime, and give the option for real player (alternate).

You'll get most of your audience that way, with the greatest quality video, and the least bandwidth.

QuickTime pro is only $29, realPlayer producer basic is free. Players for both are free, and widely installed.

It's very easy to get going on that platform. IMHO it's the best bet this day and age.

If Apple would support Linux with Quicktime, I would push QuickTime 100%.

QuickTime's plugin on Windows and Mac OS X is very stable, and reliable. The media quality is also very good.

Real has compatibility problems on non-windows players. Not everything is implemented on them. Hence they are 2nd class.

Flash Video

[modeps]

Convert your files to Flash video. As much as Macromedia kinda stinks, most people have the Flash plugin installed. Crossplatform and cross brower friendly. http://www.wildform.com/ has a cheap converter. Quality and size dont change much.

Why not try Discreet Cleaner to create the files?

[Buran]

I use Discreet's Cleaner (was Media Cleaner) here to compress videos taken of cells through a light microscope. While we save our videos in Quicktime format as we are an all-Mac lab (with one or two unavoidable exceptions) and as the QT Player is free and can be downloaded easily by Windows users, Cleaner can also process other formats as well -- it can create RealPlayer files (but not read them, which drives me crazy when I want to do personal conversion projects on the side... WTF?), MPEG streams, QT files (of course), and so on. It is very good at optimizing video for different kinds of uses (you'd be tuning for web use) and is quite good at compression. It will work with any QT codecs you drop into the appropriate folder, should you be using a Mac; I've never used the Windows version, so I can't give advice there.

It can also do batch conversion -- we set up an entire batch of files to convert overnight, set it going, and walk away. When we return in the morning, it's ready and waiting.

If you encode on a Windows box, use cleaner XL. If you use a Mac, like we do, use cleaner 6.

Be sure to provide download links for appropriate players on your page, if you don't already. Users are likely to not know about vlc and other appropriate players.

Re:Mpeg.

[Neon Spiral Injector]

But MPEG (1 and 2) files are much larger than WMV9 files. MPEG4 is more in line with the size for which he is looking. But player support is a bit more dodgy.

MPEG-4

[bill_mcgonigle]

MPEG-4 (aka mp4) is the standard everybody's running towards. The wildly popular divx is really a MPEG-4 pre-release spec but their current players handle the release spec. Quicktime on Mac or Windows will play it as will mplayer on linux. Quicktime Pro ($29) will encode is and there are some free encoders on Linux (patents are an open question).

Moreover next-gen DVD's will use MPEG-4 as do cellphones with 3GPP support so you're heading in the right direction for future work.

Codec w/ most market penetration

[LeiGong]

The best choices are Quicktime or mpeg. I wouldn't recommend DivX or XVid simply because the user has to install a 3rd party codec. More often than not, they're just going to skip over it and move on to another page. The hassle of installing the codec will outweight their interest in actually seeing the video. Sure QT is proprietary, but it has the highest market penetration next to standard Windows video codecs. So if you must have a cross platform codec that isn't mpeg, you should go with QT. Also keep in mind, ofthat 7%, the majority will be using Macs and very few will be using *nix. Desipte what the demographic on /. maybe, you'll need to think less like a geek and more like a sports agent. :)

I recommend....

[GillBates0]

ASCII animation.

If these guys can do it, so can you!

Stand-alone Quicktime player

[ChibiOne]

Here it is

MPEG4 with AAC audio

[dmoore]

I went through a similar process encoding streaming some videos from my recent wedding. My requirements were this:

- Playable by 95% of Windows, Mac, and Linux users without installing additional software.
- Streamable and seekable
- Decent quality and compression
- Encoded and streamed completely using free software (or at least freely-downloadable software)

The answer was the MPEG4 video codec, AAC audio codec, contained in an MPEG4 wrapper (.mp4 file extension). I could encode video using mencoder (ffmpeg might work too), audio using faac, multiplex using mjpegtools, and stream with darwin streaming server. All these are free. Recent versions of the quicktime player support .mp4 files (both playing them and streaming them). This also works with the quicktime browser plugin. Also, Linux users get to use mplayer without even needing the binary quicktime codecs, since MP4 is an open standard.

Remind myself to remind others

[trezor]

So far, only 50% of the posts in this thread have been reminders about how thise article is about none-winodws users.

So I thought I'd you myself, just in case you missed it, this article is about video-formats for none-windows users, so whatever applies to the windows world is really, really irellevant, because this is after all a article about usage of video-formats in a none-windows environment.

So, did you get it this time? Or should I repeat that it is indeed not about windows, just in case? Just let me know!

How about Real?

[AstroDrabb]

Is seems that a lot of /. users hate Real from past actions. However, IMO they really cleaned up their act. No more nag/spy-ware. You can easily turn off options you don't want now (like not starting at boot-up).

Real Player 10 works on Windows, Linux and Mac. You can just dump WMV and use only Real Format. Also Real 10 now has browser plug-ins for Mozilla/Firefox and IE.

If you are _really_ against using Real, then IMO the next best would be just standard MPEG-1 videos or divx. With divx, you will have Windows, Linux and MacOS X support with no problems.

If you don't go with Real, them IMO go with divX or MPEG-4, and have a blurb on the video page that directs users to the download page for VLC. There are versions of VLC for Windows, Linux, Mac and others. VLC will play tons of content on all platforms out-of-the-box.

RivaVX

[oneishy]

RivaVX has a great free tool for encoding FLV (flash movie) files for distribution on the web. It took a 3 MB mov file of a rally car race and reduced it to 300 KB, and the sound / picture quality is pretty good.

Not legal

[Sycraft-fu]

Xvid is an MPEG-4 implementation which, while an open standard, is patented and requires a license to use. Xvid itself is protected as a source-only distribution, which is considered an academic work. However to compile and use it, you need a license. What's more, MPEG-4 has use fees, you have to pay per hour per viewer for media.

Now while they don't know (or likely care) about home usage, something like this will draw their ire if you don't pay the fees.

The good, the bad and the unsupported...

[NothingToSeeHere]

You must be careful to differentiate between container formats and codecs:
Containers combine encoded audio and video, and possibly metadata. This usually means interleaving audio and video according to their time in the movie, so during playback your disk doesn't die from constant seeking between the audio and video portions.
Codecs are used to compress the raw audio and video to the desired size, usually reducing the quality (lossy compression).

As a container format, you mainly have the following options:

• .AVI (AudioVideoInterleaved): a really old format that just interlaces audio and video data (even mp3 audio is basically hacked into working with this - badbadbad)
• .WMV/.ASF: Microsoft stuff. Don't use, if you want compatibility with anything but Windows.
• QuickTime .MOV (MooV actually): Apple stuff. Officially supported on Macs and Windows, but still proprietary - you're not being nice to OSS users.
• RealMedia .RM: proprietary (see QuickTime)
• MPEG-4: New standard by the people who brought us MPEG-1 (crappy low-res by todays standards) and MPEG-2 (DVD video). It's based on the QuickTime container, but it's a public standard (not proprietary). Costs developers to get a license, though.
• Ogg: Open/Free container format. Great for OSS people, but less known than MPEG-4.

I'd recommend looking into using MPEG-4 or Ogg containers.

For video compression, whether you use MPEG-4 or Ogg, go with XVID. Theora is still in development, and everything else is a mess by comparison. (flaming ensues ;) )

For audio compression, with MPEG-4 you will want to use AAC or MP3 (not sure about the latter), with Ogg containers go with Ogg Vorbis (best quality at low bitrates, IMHO) or MP3.

By sticking to a standard, but non-proprietary combination, such as MPEG-4/XVID/AAC, you might even be able to cater to all platforms without maintaining multiple formats...

Another option: Sorenson Squeeze

[PopeAlien]

I've found Cleaner to be somewhat less userfriendly and stable than Sorenson Squeeze - Squeeze also costs about $100 less. Its does realplayer, quicktime, mpeg files as well as flash SWF and FLV files which are good for cross platform no brainer plays-in-a-window video files. You can also set it up as a watchfolder renderer, so all you have to do is drop new videos into a watched folder and it will automatically render all your set formats.

I see a lot of suggestions here for torrents, divx, etc which are not as wide spread and userfriendly as WMV / QT / FLASH /MPEG options. your best bet is probably to provide multiple format options to hit the widest audience, which can be batch rendered with Cleaner or Squeeze.

iTunes free Quicktime from the Apple Website

[BobPaul]

also they don't offer version for xp without itunes anymore(on their site at least).

Yeah they do! You just need to know what to click ;)

If you goto the Quicktime Download Page you're given radio buttons for XP/2000 with iTunes, 98/ME, and MacOS. Below that there's a drop box to select your language. Below that there are three links. Click the link titled "Quicktime StandAlone Player"

This will give you Quicktime without iTunes. It'd be nicer if they had a radio button, but the link isn't really hidden, either.

(BTW, AFIK, Quicktime for Win98/ME is the same as 2000/XP. iTunes just doesn't work on 98/ME, that's why there's two seperate radio buttons.. you should be able to use the 98/ME link just fine, but I might be mistaken...)