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Will Mac mini Lead the Charge to Smaller Desktops?

elecngnr writes "Maybe size doesn't matter. ZDNet has a story about how the Mac mini may shift consumers away from the larger tower style desktops to smaller ones. Other computer makers, such as HP, have so far been unsuccessful in marketing small computers to consumers. However, Apple does have a history of leading the charge in paradigm shifts in certain aspects of consumer products (e.g. GUI's, color changes, the iPod, and the list goes on). It is also important to recognize that they have been wrong at times too (e.g. the Cube, the Newton, and the one button mouse). Time will tell which list the Mini will belong to."

32 of 1,084 comments (clear)

  1. Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "What we found was, at least at that time (before HP bought Compaq), that people were still concerned about expandability," Anderson said. "It's been an important feature of the PC for the last 20 years, but as the PC has gone mainstream, it's been something that people liked but that they haven't used."

    Will it make a shift to smaller sized desktops? Maybe. Most people never need to open their case for a memory upgrade or some other piece of hardware being added but a lot of people do enjoy the ability to do that. As long as these small form factor machines are still able to be upgraded fairly easily I don't see why they wouldn't be popular... Personally I am rearranging my computer desk to accommodate the Mini. Not because of its size but because I want to show off the fact that I have this sleek, little, quiet, box sitting on my desk (BTW - I took Slashdotter advice from yesterday's article about the Mini and hardware upgrades and went with 512MB. I couldn't justify the $210 for 1GB when 512 was only $80). I am not looking forward to using two thin putty knives to open my brand new machine though. Why couldn't they have just made it user serviceable for RAM?

    For the first time since I was 12 I am nervous about opening a computer case and swapping out some stuff inside. To me, that's just wrong.

    Most buyers tend to purchase PCs based more on price and quality of technical support than on design, analysts said. Yet executives such as HP's Anderson see a market for unobtrusive desktops that consumers would purchase as second or third computers and use in settings such as kitchens, where large desktops are impractical.

    Ok, I'm a geek and I love to have the Internet wherever I am but why in the kitchen? Like I don't have enough shit on my crappy counter space... Why not do something like those failed Motorola wireless AIM clients and have a docking station and wlan? Why do we have to have a small form factor machine in the kitchen? Most people here seem to be using this machine in the media room because it's small, quiet, and has DVI. That makes more sense to me.

    Building in 120GB, 160GB or higher capacity drives, for example, will mean miniature PCs able to match larger machines in storing large numbers of MP3 files or even digital photos.

    Oh come on. Not many people have enough photos and MP3s to fill even 10GB nevermind 120GB or 160GB. I am still using a 10GB HD in my XP machine. Yeah, my music is stored elsewhere but it's still less than 7GB of MP3s and 10GB more for SHN/FLAC (which most people aren't into). I want to know how many regular computer userse have 100GB of music and photos. Geeks are in the minority when it comes to computer purchases from major vendors that would be hurt by this "gamble". I'm sure it won't be anything for them to worry about.

    I didn't get the Mini because it was small, quiet, or good looking. I got it because OS X is not Windows, is built on BSD, is now affordable, and isn't as susceptible to all the bullshit that my Windows machines are. If anything the Mini might open the door to more users for Apple which may or may not be a good thing ;)

    1. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by numbski · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Firewire and USB2 give the expandability of peripherals, and they're bundling video and sound chipsets that don't suck. RAM and internal drives can be upgraded (although the optical drive would be a trick I'm sure), so that leaves the cpu and mainboard. Non-geeks aren't going to attempt to upgrade those.

      Someone needs to just say it: Apple got it really really really right this time.

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    2. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by wezzul · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not many people have enough photos and MP3s to fill even 10GB nevermind 120GB or 160GB

      What about video? Small form factor boxes could easily be the new Tivo, without a monthly fee. Running something like MythTV or (cringe) Windows MC. Having a computer in the living room wouldn't be so bad if it was little and quiet, and if it was marketed correctly, could easily become something that not just for geeks...

    3. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by sgant · · Score: 5, Informative

      You won't void your warranty by upgrading your RAM by yourself.

      I'm not an Apple guy and even I notice many people like you who enjoy spreading this FUD around. I mean, come on. Hack about it's power or low system specs or anything else, but don't spread FUD like this.

      It's more effective to go after real issues and not create un-true ones.

      From another site:

      I spoke with the product manager for the Mac mini today to clarify a few facts.

      1. Yes, it will boot headless, meaning with no display or video device connected, enabling you to have what I like to call an iServe.
      2. While it is strongly recommended that you only have an Apple Authorized Service Provider crack it open and install RAM, hard drives, Airport and Bluetooth, it will NOT void your warranty if you do it yourself. As is standard operating procedure, however, anything you break while attempting anything on your own is not Apple's responsibility and will not be covered under warranty. I think that is pretty much common sense.
      3. Airport and Bluetooth can, in fact, be added after purchase. AirPort Extreme card and Bluetooth module attach to the Mac mini's motherboard via a special connector and will be sold together as a kit for $129.mac mini insides
      4. RAM is the most accessible upgrade once you get the case off. That much is clear from the picture.
      5. All upgrades other than RAM are not as accessible, but accessing them won't void your warranty, with list item #2 above in mind.

      --

      "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
    4. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by Cecil · · Score: 4, Informative

      So the question is, why hasn't anyone invented this yet?

      Psst. They have.

      Flat panel with built in computer... check.
      Wireless capability... check.
      Plays music, connects to Internet... check.
      Bluetooth Wireless keyboard... check.

    5. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by hether · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ok, I'm a geek and I love to have the Internet wherever I am but why in the kitchen?

      Because in many households with families the kitchen is the hub of the house. They spend a lot of their time hanging out there, ie: kids do their homework while mom makes dinner.

      Also, some people have their computer in this area because it's not a comfy place to hang out and veg all night watching DVDs, surfing or playing games, but rather a productive place to do homework, pay bills, etc. And for younger kids using computers, a place where their usage can always be monitored to some extent.

      --

      Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
    6. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by Cylix · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not true...

      Let's take Dell for example.

      I had a friend worried about performing a RAM upgrade so he decided to call Dell and ask. Turns out, his warranty is only void if he upgrades the motherboard or processor. (I'm asumming the case would have to stay the same too).

      When it comes to PC's... most companies understand the case will get cracked. In fact, I usually recommend dusting every six months... do that with the case sealed.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    7. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by berj · · Score: 4, Informative
      No, you don't. Or at least that was the predominant interpretation last time I looked. Got any reference to back that up?

      Umm.. how about straight from the horse's mouth (er.. keyboard):

      http://www.apple.com/ca/macmini/specs.html

      Look at footnote number 5 down at the bottom:

      Memory upgrade must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider.

    8. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by jht · · Score: 4, Informative

      When they say that, they are saying that if you buy an Apple memory upgrade that's the only way they will sell it to you. However, if you feel like installing your own memory in the system, you will not void your warranty by installing the third-party memory provided you don't break the mini when doing so .

      That's an important distinction. Once you've installed the memory, that memory is not covered by the Apple warranty, and if you break the mini while installing it you can void the mini's warranty. But let's say you install your own 1GB DIMM and all goes swimmingly well. Then, a couple of months later, the hard drive dies.

      That hard drive repair is covered by Apple's warranty. They have to - there's a handy law that says so. But if the DIMM you installed is causing the Mac to crash, well, you better hope your RAM provider gave you a warranty for the DIMM - because Apple won't replace it (duh).

      --
      -- Josh Turiel
      "2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
    9. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by Moofie · · Score: 4, Funny

      DAMMIT! STOP ruining people's RANTS with your FACTS!

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    10. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by damiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Not being able to upgrade the video is a big deal to me. The radeon 9200 chip they have is ok for playing basic mpg's or tetris but that's about it.

      If you want to play games, you don't want a Mac anyway. If you want to do real video editing or 3D modeling, you don't want a Mac mini. The Radeon 9200 does exactly what 99% of Mini users need it to do. A faster card would pump up the cost and produce more heat and, consequently, noise.

      And, of course, Apple doesn't believe anyone could want better sound than what they have built in so *no* mac's have upgradable sound.

      WTF are you talking about? Every Power Mac ever made has upgradable internal sound, as do all Powerbooks with PCMCIA. And every Mac made in the past 6 or 7 years has Firewire and USB, either of which can be used for an external sound card with much better quality.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    11. Re:Form factor had nothing to do with it for me... by diamondsw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not being able to upgrade the video is a big deal to me. The radeon 9200 chip they have is ok for playing basic mpg's or tetris but that's about it.

      Okay, I'm sick of this. You're a gamer, plain and simple. You have to play the latest games when they come out. You upgrade your video card every six months to a year (and it costs over half of a Mac Mini). How do I know this?

      Because the built-in graphics on the Mini can handle anything but that particular subset, as can any damn video card today. You can playback any video format you want (especially since I can with an 800Mhz G3 and Radeon 7500) - they tend to be CPU bound these days, as the graphics cards are all insanely powerful. You can play any games up to a couple years ago just fine. If you're getting a Mac in the first place, you're not getting it as a gaming platform, so I see this as moot.

      For example, it performs damn well in Quake 3 Arena, a standard for quick benchmarking. 96FPS at highest settings, on a budget $600 computer. Kick. Ass.

      And, of course, Apple doesn't believe anyone could want better sound than what they have built in so *no* mac's have upgradable sound. wtf is that about?

      Because Apple has always had integrated sound. How long did it take PC's to get beyond a simple startup beep? No, you can't buy a sound card for a Mac - Creative made a half-assed effort several years ago, but since we all already have sound, nobody bought them (that, and the drivers were some of the worst written - ATI worthy). On the other hand, since the G5's (and hopefully others with time) support fibre optic audio out, and OS X supports surround sound, what's the big deal? What would a new sound card add? You're already surround and pure digital - am I missing something?

      --
      I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
  2. Newton? by Cutriss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How was the Newton wrong? It may not have taken off, but it definitely had an impact. Palm would likely never have existed if Apple hadn't tried the Newton.

    --
    "Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
    1. Re:Newton? by Anonymous+Codger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have an old Newton 110 sitting in a desk drawer somewhere. The only reason I stopped using it is because it's too big to easily carry with me.

      I now have a PocketPC (wouldn't have bought it, got it free). Even though it has somthing like 100 times the memory and 50 times the processor power, and is 10 years newer, it doesn't work nearly as well as the Newton. The Newton's handwriting recognition is far better, the built-in apps work better, the UI is infinitely better, etc. It's even faster at most things (probably because it's not pushing a lot of color around).

      The Newton was way ahead of the game. Its designers recognized that the new form factor also required a new user interface paradigm - the WIMP/desktop metaphor doesn't work in that form factor. They came up with something revolutionary that worked beautifully in a handheld, pen-driven device. Microsoft seems to think that everything has to look like Windows - they just don't get it.

      I wish Jobs hadn't killed the Newton. Imagine a Newton with a fast StrongArm, lots of memory, color, etc., in a Palm form factor. It would put Palm and Microsoft PPC to shame.

      --
      No sig? Sigh...
  3. One button mouse flamage here by rjrjr · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let's get this out of the way right now. Please make all your valuable n-button-mouse replies to this post.

    1. Re:One button mouse flamage here by geoffspear · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't see how anyone can possibly operate a computer with only 3 buttons, 1 of which is a tiny clickable scroll wheel. My mouse has 18 buttons, and I couldn't possibly do without any of them.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    2. Re:One button mouse flamage here by ceeam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, go to your mom, dad, sister - whoever you think is not geeky enough. Ask them whether they know that mouse wheel is clickable? Now watch them trying to do it... Yeah, great fun. Ask them whether they know that they can drag things with the right mouse button? BTW, Ask them what happens when you drag things with the mouse - will they get moved or copied or what? What exactly in what situation? So, how many points scored? Do you still think that simple mouse (that they probably like to handle with two fingers and release before clicking) is a bad thing for _them_?

      Me - I trained myself to handle my mouse with both hands equally well :) No bash.org'ese replies please :)

    3. Re:One button mouse flamage here by Geoff-with-a-G · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't see why anyone needs more than one button. I don't even use a keyboard. The computer is in binary anyway, I just tap the data in with my one-button. It's a much simpler interface, really.

  4. Maybe by geoffspear · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If the Mac Mini sells well, everyone will copy the idea. If not, it will disappear like the Cube and no one will ever build anything like it again.

    Of course, the cube's problem wasn't the design, it was the price tag. If they'd sold the cube for $500, it would have been a big hit, and you'd see grey cubes everywhere, from other computer manufacturers to George Foreman CubeGrills.

    --
    Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    1. Re:Maybe by tji · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > If the Mac Mini sells well, everyone will copy the idea. If not, it will disappear like the Cube and no one will ever build anything like it again.

      The PowerMac G4 Cube kicked off a whole industry of PCs. It was the reason the Small Form Factor (SFF) PCs, the most successful of which are from Shuttle. When they first came out (not too long after the Mac Cube) people were calling them PC Cubes.

      Of course the SFF PCs are nothing like the G4 Cube in its simple, quiet, elegant design. I guess the SFF box was the best they could do when accomodating PC requirements (HOT running CPU needed a huge heat sink + fan, internal ATX power supply to meet the high wattage requirements, and PCI/AGP slots to satisfy PC tweakers).

      If the PC manufacturers do copy the mini, expect it to be another design full of compromises and lacking the style of a Mac.

  5. Disagree about the Cube by duffbeer703 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The cube was a brilliant design, and people I know that have it love it.

    Only problem was that it was too frickin expensive.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  6. Re:No by tbone1 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    People like big things. Big TVs, big SUVs, big houses... big computers. Size still matters. I bet if they started selling room-size computers again, people would be buying them.

    It all depends, really. People like some things bigger. Pizzas, for instance, because it means more bready-cheesy-tomato-saucy goodness. Bigger homes mean more space AND a (perceived or true) better return on investment. Big SUVs are great in the winter weather, and they have a lot of room for hauling stuff.

    However, they don't always prefer bigger. People love the small size of the iPod. They love smaller, slimmer cell phones. They prefer babies to teenagers. You don't see too many huge women as centerfolds. Huge bazooms, yes; land whales, no. Middle-aged-crazy men prefer sports cars to minivans. I myself prefer women who require small maintenance to those who require a lot. And you can bet that taxpayers prefer small government to big. People love laptops that are smaller and lighter.

    So maybe there is a market for this, which will be helped along by the Mac mini being stylish and from a company that's considered cool. Maybe it won't start a trend. The market will decide, as the market always does.

    --

    The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
  7. Re:Cost by DevilHoops · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think cost will be a huge part of this equation. Clearly Jonathan Ive's design team at Apple has been incredible fitting powerful components into minute packages. I doubt Dell and HP will be nearly as successful, and furthermore doubt that it is in their interests to attempt this. Dell has always found success through fitting inexpensive components together to market towards the masses. Focusing on design can only increase costs and reduce profitability.

    --
    Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
  8. Re:odddly enough by damian+cosmas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Surely you jest. They moved 4.5 million iPods just during the Holiday Season. The "geek circle" can't be that big. Go to a gym sometime; tell me that all the women working out with their shiny pink iPods are geeks.

    Bloomingdales sells iPods; Nieman Marcus sells insanely expensive iPod cases. You can't possible believe that these are typical geek shopping venues.

  9. Re:eh? by HarveyBirdman · · Score: 4, Informative
    You can plug a Microsoft Intellimouse with scroll wheel into a Mac OS X machine, and it works perfectly. What people get tired of is the implication that the Mac OS is LIMITED to one button. Multibutton support is built into Mac OS X, and before that you could buy any mouse with umpteen buttons, install the driver, and click away happily. Apple simply provides a one button mouse, but you can use multibutton mice no problem.

    Now I agree with the argument that maybe Apple should offer a better mouse out of the box, but, well, mice are pretty cheap.

    --
    --- Ban humanity.
  10. Mini Macs are a good thing... by jav1231 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We've all wanted to see MS's dominance challenged. We've been working hard to make Linux a viable candidate and it is. We've always known Mac's were a better GUI experience and really a better desktop than Windows. We've always known if they would just bring it to the masses it would go far. Well, now Apple is doing just that.

  11. Charge towards smaller desktops? by asv108 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From what I tell, that charge has already taken place. Desktops now are a lot smaller that they were 10 years ago. Sure, Dell is not mass marketing a mini-itx model to consumers, but thats because of price considerations. The majority of people in the market would rather by a laptop than a small desktop.

    The other consideration is psychological, consumers tend to gravitate towards big things because they think their more powerful. I've seen so many people by the 17in powerbook for absolutely no logical reason whatsoever. Yes, people doing video editing, sound editing, and graphics work can make us of a 17in, but the vast majority of buyers are normal users. I joke around with my one 17in wielding coworker, and call it the SUV laptop phenomenon. People are buying 17in powerbooks much in the manner that others buy hummer H2s.

  12. Mac has a history of leading by 6 to 12 months... by dpbsmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Steve Jobs obviously has good taste in sensing trends and managing to bring them to market just a little more quickly than others. You could make a list of things that were more or less in the air, that the Mac wasn't first to offer, but successfully offered on a large scale six to twelve months ahead of the PC world.

    All of these points can of course be debated depending on how you count "introduced on a large scale" and "when," but...

    --Introducing the Sony 3.5" floppy in the first place
    --Screens with black text on a white background
    --Easy-to-use workgroup-strength plug-and-play networking
    --Laser printers
    --SCSI interface
    --DROPPING floppies as standard equipment
    --USB ports (!)
    --Optical mice as standard equipment

    Of course, the standard PC answer is to any Mac innovation is "Who cares? If it's of any real importance PCs will have it in a year anyway. And it will be cheaper." To which the Mac answer is, "Yeah, and it won't work as well."

  13. Apple's failures? by TangoCharlie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apples failure with the Newton, Cube etc. haven't been because the innovation was wrong... The Newton concept lead to Palm and then to PocketPC. The Cube beat Shuttle to the SFF. Apple's failures in these cases were due mainly to a lack of conviction... (and possibly money)... and maybe coming to market too early. Have they learned thier lesson? They got the iPod spot on... they didn't invent MP3 players... but they pitched thier product at eactly the right time to capture the imagination. I'm sure the Mac mini will do well... for a start it's soo much cheaper than the other Macs... and sooo small. I'm buying one for my mother-in-law...
    I always laugh at HP's moto... HP invent. Do they? Naa...
    I hope the Mac mini will encourage people to think small.

    --
    return 0; }
  14. Re:The One Button Mistake by dema · · Score: 4, Insightful

    (Note: Every time I sit down at my Mac to work with Maya, the first thing I do is plug in a three-button mouse with scroll wheel -- and so does everybody else.)

    And the fact that you can do that 99% of the time with zero hassle from drivers or legacy or yadda yadda is why I (as an Apple customer) don't really care what mouse Apple chooses to ship with my shinny new computer (:

  15. Re:The One Button Mistake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Every time I sit down at my Mac to work with Maya, the first thing I do is plug in a three-button mouse with scroll wheel

    Maybe you should leave the three-button mouse plugged in. That way, you wouldn't have to keep plugging it in again every time you sit down.
  16. Re:One button mice... by pclminion · · Score: 4, Funny
    The one button mouse, or rather glidepoint, drives her nuts. Not the glidepoint itself (she loves that), but the single button that forces her to memorize somekey+mouseclick to do basic things the rest of us do with the right mouse button and, in the case of us Linux/*BSD folks, the middle mouse button.

    Let me get this straight. She's unwilling/unable to memorize how to use one key, which is the same key on all Macs, in all applications, at all times? The key which has been used for this purpose since the beginning of Mac history?

    Your girlfriend has a serious learning disability.