Apple Updates PowerBooks

Tablespork writes "Apple this morning has updated the PowerBook G4. The new models feature 1.5 or 1.67 ghz processors, 8x superdrives, 512MB memory standard, Bluetooth 2.0, updated graphics cards, a sudden motion sensor, as well as a scrolling trackpad. Looks like we'll have to wait a little longer for the PowerBook G5."

Comments

Too bad...

[Thijs van As]

...no dual core G4 or a G5

Re:Too bad...

[capmilk]

That's not bad at all. You really don't want to buy the first generation of an Apple product. Remember the first Powerbook G3? Or the first Powerbook G4?
See, you want something like those current Powerbooks which are thoroughly tested.

Re:Too bad...

[waffleman]

Well, at this point, no one really knows anything except for what IBM, Apple, and Freescale have published. There are no benchmarks, reviews, etc. that I know of. So everything I've said is a guess; I meant it as such and said "supposedly outperforms". On the same note, however, you're also guessing that the new dual G4 is going to be hotter than what we've got now. Pretty easy to agree with, (and I generally do agree with you) but like me, you haven't pointed out any benchmarks, reviews, etc. Note that the dual core chip takes a little less than 15W while an iBook G4 draws about the same. So, it looks to me like the dual will probably be hotter than than the current G4s, but not nearly as hot as the G5 at 40W, or thereabout.

As far as the practicality of dual core vs. single core machines goes ... Without concurrency there's no boost; with concurrency usually there is some boost and it is possible, in fact, to have a dual core system be faster than single core at twice the speed. It's not common but it all depends on what you're doing.

Yes, I already read the concurrent programming article a while back, but I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm for it. I think the author blurs program performance and performance programming. The first is about raw speed, the second is about making your program run X percent faster than your competitors' do. As such the "free lunch" he describes never really existed for people who actually do performance programming. Concurrency is already used whenever possible since you never know when you might be runnning on an SMP machine. Abstract machines can be massively parallel regardless of the hardware underneath. For everybody who doesn't do performance programming, the problem usually comes down to decoupling the performance bottleneck from the rest of the application, then handing it off to a performance person. (They still have to make sure their code is reasonably fast and lean, but parallelism isn't a big issue)

Anyway, I'm getting OT. I think the bottom line is that for the types of tasks I do, the performance benefit of SMP in a laptop sounds a lot better than the benefit of a G5.

G5 PowerBook - Keep Waiting

[Matt Clare]

Not surprising that Apple would do this. They needed to keep the line fresh while they attempt the Herculean task of getting a super hot, server-oriented G5 chip into a PowerBook.

Tablespork, you must have been the only one

[karmaflux]

Who still expected a G5 Powerbook any time this year. TOO MUCH HEAT, PEOPLE. I don't care how strong the Apple engineers' kung-fu is, there's just no way to cram the G5 into that small a form factor without melting the keyboard. Give it some time, and it'll happen. But not soon.

Re:Tablespork, you must have been the only one

[LWATCDR]

The bigger questions is do anyone really need a G5 Powerbook? I guess for the few people that edit movies and Huge graphics files do but for the average person the shorter battery life and higher weight seems to be a bad trade off.
I have to wonder if Apple is going to use the new CELL cpu for the next generation of notebooks. Maybe duel CELL cpus since they should be cheap.

Re:Tablespork, you must have been the only one

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Every single time any CPU (x86, PowerPC, SPARC, whatever) gets faster, someone always asks the question, "Does anyone really need this?"

And the answer, ultimately, is always, "Yes."

Re:Tablespork, you must have been the only one

[daviddennis]

As someone who does heavy video editing, I can say that a 1ghz PowerBook G4 will perform flawlessly for any video editing task not involving heavy compositing. You'll see instant previews for everything that matters (dissolves, simple superimpositions, etc).

A G5+ processor is indispensible if you're converting from one video format to another (like when someone gives you a video screen capture that needs to be integrated) or when you're doing compositing (layering of images). In my experience, most of those are best done on the dual processor G5 in any event, and a dual processor G5 is unlikely to ever land in a laptop since the heat and power consumption problems are too difficult.

But the cold truth - in my opinion, anyway - is that few true Apple obsessives want to feel left out from the G5 revolution and so we are holding back from buying G4 PowerBooks because we just know it will be downright embarassing to have last year's model when the G5 PowerBook comes out.

In a sense this is very good because the flood of orders that will come when the new PowerBook G5 is introduced keep Apple in business. At the same time, it's a kind of sad testament to the power of ego in human life.

D

Re:Tablespork, you must have been the only one

[InvalidError]

OS/2 2.0 was a joint project between Microsoft and IBM. When the two "divorced", IBM continued to use the OS/2 brand and Microsoft forked its side of things into what would become NT's starting point.

Having common origins does not mean one has to stick to the original's APIs, file systems and other implementation details. The current Linux kernel probably looks and behaves like it has no relation with the 1.0 code as well.

Scrolling trackpad

[kingLatency]

I think this is a great feature to have. For those interested in such a feature on an older PowerBook (which I was), check out SideTrack, software that will allow you to set the edge of your trackpad to be a scrolling area. Good on Apple to include this standard, and the two-finger idea seems neat.

Re:Eh

[TheKidWho]

1.5ghz vs 1.2ghz
64mb geforce vs 32mb radeon
512ram vs 256ram
167bus vs 133 bus
5400rpm 60gb HD vs 30gb HD
DVI out vs mirror VGA
Having the powerplug on the same side as all the other ports vs the way the ibook has it which makes it slighlty uncomfortable to use on its side
motion sensing vs nothing

I dunno, these new 12" powerbooks look like a great deal to me, especially for $1400 with a student discount!

Two-finger scroll

[American AC in Paris]

Now there's a nifty little way to do one's scrolling with the trackpad--use one finger, it's a pointing device; two, and it behaves like a scroll wheel. If it works as advertised, it'll be a far cry better than the "scroll zone" trackpad hacks out there today...

Re:Worst Mod EVER

[geoffspear]

It's flamebait because the sole purpose of posting a comment about the mac's one button on slashdot is to generate a string of flaming replies. It's been discussed at great length, with everyone calling anyone on the other side either a brainwashed mac zealot or an idiot who can't figure out how to use a control key or plug in a different mouse, and nothing productive is going to come of the discussion.

Flamebait or troll is certainly the right moderation. Possibly offtopic, as the powerbook doesn't even come with a mouse.

Re:Sudden Motion Sensor

[haluness]

It works on an IBM thinkpad

Whodunnit first?

[gandell]

Didn't IBM introduce this feature on their laptops a few months ago?

Re:Whodunnit first?

[moonbender]

On a more positive note, at least Apple manages to describe the technology without resorting to buzzwords ("Active Protection System", "ThinkVantage Technology") or made-up statistics ("up to four times greater impact protection").

That said, the new Powerbooks do feature "PowerPC G4 processors with Velocity Engine".

Re:Whodunnit first?

[TheRaven64]

Yes. Which makes me slightly suspicious of Apple's claim in the press release that it is patent pending. Although it may come under some kind of cross-licensing deal IBM and Apple have - if so, I don't know whether it will transfer to the new owners of the ThinkPad brand.

Welcome to 2005.

[Anonymous Coward]

The G5 heat problem has been solved with the latest rev.

Its just an industrial design problem at this point to make the case look nice.

Stop making excuses for Apple. These PB's you see will be the last with a G4. The PB line is just old and creaky at this point. You would only buy one right now if there is some reason where you *HAVE* to have a PB (i.e. you use one for work and your current PB is stolen).

But if you can wait 6 months, it would intelligent to wait, because you'll get something that doesn't sport a 3 year old design.

Re:The Screens?

[mikrorechner]

Personally, I never understood what those huge display resolutions on notebook screens are good for.

I've seen one of those Dell displays, and you can barely read the window titles and start menu entry in the default Windows font size. Sure, you can set a bigger font size, but then you would not have needed the higher resolution in the first place. I don't have a very good eye sight, but a mouse pointer that's only 2.5mm doesn't seem terribly ergonomic to me.

I know a high resolution is needed by people doing DTP and similar things for full size page previews, but who does this on a laptop, and not a calibrated big screen on their desks?

So, tell me what am I missing?

The SMS

[Illserve]

Nice idea and I hope it works.

But it's the kind of gadgety feature I can imagine going bonkers and effectively shutting down your computer until you send it in for a refit.

Re:The Screens?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tiger will have DPI scaling so that text is still readable with a gigantic resolution.

Still TOO expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

Even with the new features, the 15" is starting to show its age agsinst the competition regarding price. A year and four months ago, Apple and Dell were nearly side-by-side on price (PB 15" vs Inspiron 8600). Now the PowerBook is the same price ($2000) when the Dell can be had for $1400 (or less, that's being conservative!). A year and a half without a price reduction is just plain dumb...especially considering that the 12" PB is getting eaten by the iBook G4. There is no compelling ~$1500 Apple professional solution; however in the PC World no one in their right mind pays over $1600 (for a laptop with similar limited features: ie- lowest resolution 15" lcd, moderate HD size/performance, DVD-CDRW combo, marginal processor performance, limited support options)

Apple needs to learn that price PLUS performance are key. Just because they can't figure out how to product place the 12" PowerBook doesn't mean that the price for the 15" PowerBook just HAS to be jacked up! I thought the Mac mini was an omen of better decision making...guess not.

Re:G5 laptop holdup? AMD's been doing it already!

[FunWithHeadlines]

"Now, admittedly, my laptop is big, bulky and basically the antithesis of what I would imagine a Powerbook laptop would look like"

And there's your answer, frankly.

Re:Dockingstation

[papasui]

I agree with you on the docking station. But if you actually have a 30' cinema display then:

1.) You can afford a desktop machine to have it hooked up to.
2.) Your obviously better off than at least 90% of the slashdot crowd so stop bitching.

Re:12" still crippled

[dcocos]

I'm with you on the back lit keyboard, but as for calling it crippled, I'm not so sure, I personally don't know of any people who use GB ethernet. For me the key Powerbook specs are the DVD burner on the 12inch and that that the PB can drive DVI out so I can use it with my projector. After carrying around a 12in for a while the 15in seems big and heavy.

Re:Why use a tiny keyboard on the 17"?

[dhuff]

I'm all for this. The otherwise rather poor quality Dell that I use at work has a gorgeous 125 dpi screen. Bright, decent colors, etc...

So when is Apple gonna upgrade the dim, washed-out, and kinda "soft" looking LCDs on the iBooks and 12" Powerbooks ? Hell, it's an embarrassment - esp. in comparison to even some cheap, crappy Dell...

Re:12" still crippled

[MoneyT]

Connect two laptops together with a CAT 6 patch cable and do some highspeed file transfers. Gigabit is wonderful when trying to transfer 10 - 15 GB of data over a network.

Re:Unequal Articles under Slashdot

[jht]

Seriously? There's a couple of reasons. First off, Dell (or PC vendor X) does upgrades/updates differently from Apple. When Intel ships a newer, faster chip, Dell just slipstreams it into their existing models/lineups. Also, Dell offers so many different models that a change to one isn't really a news event. Besides, every other PC vendor offers something equivalent - Dell's only innovation is in the supply chain (and making it hyper-efficient). They don't actually make anything, they just package it into a cheap beige box.

Slashdot does cover all the new Intel and AMD announcements, which means that to run a feature when Dell puts it into a system would just really be covering the same story twice (not that Slashdot doesn't routinely cover things twice).

The difference is that Apple actually engineers their own products and OS. Also, they upgrade less often, and then when they do they upgrade a whole family of products simultaneously. That helps make it newsworthy. Yes, the speed improvement is a whopping 167 MHz per config (or only 1x on the multiplier), but when they revved the PowerBooks today they also added features (like dual-DVI support and the funky new scrollpad), changed video cards, and upgraded other stuff like Bluetooth.

Plus, Apple is Apple. Dell is just another PC vendor. If Dell is doing an upgrade, chances are all the other PC vendors are putting the same feature in their equivalent model at the exact same time. Like I said above, the news is when Intel or AMD introduce the upgrade that everybody then puts into their product lines, not when Dell does theirs.

Re:Dockingstation

[NRP128]

Hmmm...built in Bluetooth 2.0 + Apple Bluetooth keyboard + Logitech MX900 = Wireless keyboard mouse. so you'd plug in the 1 cable, unless you need firewire for an ipod, ext harddrive, etc.

Re:Finally a Superdrive update

[harlows_monkeys]

I'm glad they finally updated their 'Superdrive'. It was getting embarrassingly outdated, when competitors from the PC laptop realm had DVD±RW with DVD-RAM drive drives. I have a Powerbook 15" with the old DVD-R Superdrive and had to admit I was a bit envious that a professor who's new Toshiba laptop had DVD±RW and DVD-RAM drive capabilities

Check your drive...it might actually be +/-RW. Apple has included these for quite a while--they just didn't officially support it. My PowerBook from around last Thanksgiving is +/-RW.

You can check with "drutil" in a terminal window.

And if your does not include -RW or +/-RW, note its model number and Google for it, because some of the older drives Apple used can be updated via a third-party firmware update for -RW or +/-RW.

Re:12" still crippled

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a 12 inch powerbook, but have used the 15 inch models with a backlit keyboard. I believe the reason the backlit keyboard is not in the 12 inch is because there is nowhere to put the light sensors. The sensors for the 15 inch and 17 inch models are in the speaker grilles on either side of the keyboard. The only place to put it on a 12 inch powerbook would be on the palmrest, which may not even be possible because it would be directly over the battery or the hard drive. would mean the backlight would be on whenever you are using it, and the backlight being on in a brightly lit room actually does make the letters hard to see. The keys on the 12 inch keyboard have the transluscent letters that would allow the fiberoptic backing to come through. As for FW800, there really isn't room for that either, not without losing a usb port. Most people would probably rather have 2 usb ports. I don't have any FW800 peripherals but I have had both usb ports in use at one time before.

Re:12" still crippled

[argent]

Really. I don't care much for either, after using the Thinkpad. I'd really like a laptop that invested an extra half inch of depth in a keyboard like the ones on the old Toshiba Satellites, with almost full travel keys. They were SO much better to type on than any laptop available today... most of which feel like I'm trying to type on the scales of a slightly putrified dead alligator.

Re:PRICE drops are what gets me!

[Ohreally_factor]

now all i have to do is come up with $2400...anybody willing to help a poor college kid live the dream of OSX?

Well, I'll do my part to help you out. You can knock of about $20, if you buy a 3rd party spare battery. Slightly greater capacity on the Al batteries. More dramatic increases on the Ti and iBook batteries.