Outsourced Support, Now Outsourced Telemarketing?

Sir_Dill asks: "I was a little skeptical of the whole chicken-littlish sky is falling attitude about outsourcing to India, that is until it hit home. Over the last couple of days I have started to receive at least two calls a night from an unknown telemarketing company. First it was discovercard and tonight its a mortgage company called Parsec (whose webpage doesn't work in Firefox). Each time they ask for the person whose name is associated with my phone number in Google (an entirely different story altogether). When I inform them that they have the wrong number, they read the same script each time and each time I ask them to take me off their lists. Its getting old and I am feeling a little helpless in regards to this...and the worst part is...it is not an offer I can't refuse...it is one I can't understand. Has anyone else experienced this? How did you handle it and does the National Do Not Call list even apply?"

Comments

Outsourcing runs rampant in U.S. corporations

[Anonymous Coward]

MCI has outsourced most of its U.S. residential sales, customer service and repair service to Client Logic, RMH and another company I forget right now. Their call centers primarily operate out of three Canadian locations and Manila, where the telemarketers are. Business customers, for the moment, still enjoy the privilege of speaking to actual MCI employees right here in the U.S.A.

If you're a residential MCI customer, and wind up speaking to someone who's in the U.S., you are extremely fortunate. Only high spending residential customers are routed to U.S. representatives.

If they are calling you anyways...

[turtled]

You should ask them to repeat the informtaion. Give them some hassling, ask them a bunch of questions... act like you are interested (if you have time and aren't already frustrated). Ask them if they know what fungus is on your feet. Keep them on the phone, then just hang up. You get a quick laugh... I don't have telemarketers calling (yet). I have had Vonage for 6 months and haven't really given out my number.

Re:If they are calling you anyways...

[QMO]

Once upon a time, a telemarketer called me.
I asked to speak to a manager.
The manager came on and asked what was up.
I explained that I was doing my part to change the business model.
Then I hung up.

I don't think i changed the business model, but it was fun.

Next I will try to sell the telemarketer my old P233MMX that's sitting in the basement. (It's only US$3,200! A real bargiain! Tech support at only US$47.95/min for the first 3 min, US$97.95/min thereafter! etc. . .)

Re:If they are calling you anyways...

[CTalkobt]

I've actually listened to a guy's spiel and then when he was through complimented him on his speaking abilities and lied and told him I was the manager of a call burea in the NC area and asked if he'd like to move.

It was fun - wasted about 20 minutes of the guys time - found out how low of an income they were making etc.

Re:If they are calling you anyways...

[zogger]

I used to answer all calls in a heavy contrived accent, as if the telemarketer (usually) caller had just gotten a business with an immigrant running it (usually I used like an indo/pak accent). Confused heck out of anyone who didn't know me, and they would remove the phone number then automatically if they were trying to push something targeted to homeowners. My friends knew it was me so they'd go "hey, it's me" whatever so I could talk. Worked a charm it did.

Re:If they are calling you anyways...

[bechthros]

My favorite was when TimeWarner called me up to try to sell me voip. I worked in a datacenter at the time, so I'm not a network genius by any means, but I knew enough to give the poor telemarketer five minutes worth of a detailed explanation of why, based on the poor performace (tiling) of their digital cable channels and their RoadRunner service, and their obvious inability or unwillingness to provide the infrastructure needed to provide the services they were more than happy to take my money for (bigger, faster switches), I would be giving them money for a voip service that was virtually guaranteed to have skips and dropouts at about the same time hell froze over.

It was the only time in my life that a telemarketer hasn't argued with me. All she said was, "Thank you, sir. Goodbye." It was beautiful.

National Do-Not-Call list

[LouCifer]

What do you mean "..does the National Do Not Call list even apply?"

Of course it does. If the company they're calling for does business inside the U.S. then they're in violation of the DNC list, regardless of where the actual calls are coming from - the company placing the calls are an extension of the comapny they're representing.

Immediately file a complaint at https://www.donotcall.gov/Complain/ComplainCheck.a spx for each and every call you've received from this place.

AFAIK, you don't have to warn them or ask them to remove you from the list - its not your responsibility to tell them you're on the list. Its their responsibility to check the list against the numbers they're dialing. They fail to do so, then its their problem they get hit with the fines.

I've had to do this with at least three companies. I lodged complaints all of three times apiece. I've not got a single call from them again. IIRC, the fine is $500 each call.

Re:National Do-Not-Call list

[tacocat]

I'm a company.

I hire a company in some other country to manage my Marketing or at least a portion of it.

They hire a spam/telemarketing company that is also outside of the US.

Since I'm not my contractors subcontract keeper I'm in the clear. I have plausible deniability of the behaviour of the third company and as such, am not liable under the DNC rules

Wake Up America!

Re:National Do-Not-Call list

[FreshlyShornBalls]

AFAIK, you don't have to warn them or ask them to remove you from the list - its not your responsibility to tell them you're on the list. Its their responsibility to check the list against the numbers they're dialing. They fail to do so, then its their problem they get hit with the fines.

Actually, that's not exactly true.

If the company has a "pre-existing relationship" with you, they're allowed to call you regardless of whether you're registered (until you tell them to remove your number from their list).

Just tell them you died.

[toygeek]

When they ask for whoever it is they want, just say "I'm sorry that person passed away last week... "

Real live people?

[technolalia]

You get real live people on the other end of the phone?
Wow - I've started getting (here in the UK) recorded messages, in an American accent, apparently from Florida. Swamps your tape if the answerphone picks up.
I'm on the UKs cold call opt-out list, but presumeably foreign companies aren't under any obligation by that.

I really don't know what can be done about these damnable tele-spammers. Any suggestions?

John

Re:Real live people?

[toygeek]

I've started getting (here in the UK) recorded messages, in an American accent, apparently from Florida.

Thats silly. Americans don't have accents!

Parsec's reply on Do Not Call lists:

[stuckatwork]

From their FAQ:

"6. How do you handle Do Not Call Legislation? PARSEC Interact has implemented a rigorous program that ensures full DNC compliance.

"As required by law, we ensure that all of our clients are properly registered for the states in which their programs are scheduled to run. This is required before the program can run. The process of registering is relatively painless, and we will walk you through every step.

"Once the list is procured, we scrub not only against the National DNC Registry, but also against state and local DNC lists that are pertinent to the campaign.

"All of our telemarketing agents are trained on how to handle customers who request to be put on the DNC Registry. They are also trained on which practices are acceptable, and which are not acceptable.

We take DNC compliance very seriously, and we are proud of the proactive steps we have taken to ensure compliance. For detailed information on how PARSEC handles DNC compliance, ask your PARSEC representative about our DNC Compliance Guidelines."



So, shouldn't you be able to make a claim against them?

https://www.donotcall.gov/Complain/ComplainCheck.a spx

Just hang up without expliantion

[acidrain]

It is their job it to try and keep you on the phone as long as possible, but you are wasting both their time and yours by following social norms and trying to wait long enough to jam a "no thanks, goodbye" in there.

Just hang up on them the moment you realize what is going on. You both will be better off.

Re:Just hang up without expliantion

[j-turkey]

Just hang up on them the moment you realize what is going on. You both will be better off.

Actually, to make a difference, I'd go the other way around. When they ask for you, or the homeowner, or whomever, ask them to hold on while you find that person. Put the phone down, and walk away to do something else. If they hold for 10 minutes or more, you'll get a good laugh out of it.

This may tie up your phone line, but you're wasting their time (better than them wasting your time). Advertisers have to pay them, and you're decreasing their sales effectiveness. If enough people do this, telemarketing may be perceived as less effective.

Alternatively, politely and calmly ask them for their name, and the name of their firm (rather than being aggressive or letting them know what your intentions are). Then file a DNC complaint ASAP.

Re:Just hang up without expliantion

[skadus]

Has someone come up with a device that checks incoming calls against a list of people known to you, and if it is an unknown number, automatically either sends them directly to the answering machine[...]

http://www.pagerealm.com/tc2k/ - the TeleCrapper 2000 was linked to on Slashdot a long while back by the creator (in a comment to a 'what hardware do you hack?' article, I believe).

It's been awhile since I've looked at the actual site, but I think it was hardware related, and he was looking for people to do a software version. It's similar to what you're saying (and I actually thought of the exact thing you're talking about when I saw this before), only it's a two-way answering machine. He has it set up to make a prank call out of it using pre-recorded conversation snippets. I imagine it's not too much different to make it an auto-answering machine.

Other than that, SourceForge has very little in the way of PC answering machine programs, at least for Windows (I don't even have Cygwin installed after my most recent reformat, so I haven't looked at Linux stuff).

Personally, I would kill for a cheap or OSS solution that could read the Caller ID and immediately pick up on the answering machine. If I had any coding ability at all I'd do it myself.

Re:Just hang up without expliantion

[j-turkey]

Has someone come up with a device that checks incoming calls against a list of people known to you, and if it is an unknown number, automatically either sends them directly to the answering machine or tells them that because they are not known, they will have to wait through a 20 second wait period before their call is put through?

I dunno, but this is exactly the kind of thing that a F/OSS PBX (like Asterisk, for example) could be set up to do. You could also write some code so it captures the last words of telemarketers before they hang up and publish your favorite explitives to a webpage (along with the call duration -- it's even funnier when you know how long they were waiting) just for giggles.

Make them pay

[Alcamar]

I've heard of this being done before, it cost you the use of the line, but(especially if they are calling from India), then tell them "Yes, one moment while I get them", and set the phone down and ignore it. Periodically you might even get up and yell at the phone, "They're coming, they'll be right there", just to keep them waiting in anticipation.

Message from our partners

[w1mp]

We had an sbc line for quite a while. It seemed they could call us as telemarketers with 'offers from their partners' since we were sbc's customer. We switched to a digital phone from TW and have had exactly 1 telemarketer call, from the mortgage company that i just purchased a house through (and who sold the loan 3 weeks later, so no more calls from them) and have never been happier.

oh don't get me started...

[dJCL]

I almost started work as a telemarketer - then ran from the building screaming!!!(well not screaming, but I did run...) /me needed work, money was short:
so I decided to see how bad it would be, they promised 1 week of paid training before we hit the phones - and had people on within 3 days.

I never made a sales call, but listened in on a huge number of them. Wow. It's not that the job is hard, it's that the people on the other end are harsh, and the only good telemarketers are actually quite evil, even in real life.

Most of them are just people who need a job, plenty from various places around the world, so they had a variaty of accents.

I never would have survived at that job, I just cannot be the type who knowingly targets people to get their money.

Anyway... I learned a few tricks, and realized how pathetic they run the place from that.(Dos app running in a locked/stripped down win98 - phone and app login was our SIN#(~SSN#) and over 50% of calls never reached a person - just answering systems)

Hello?

[AtariAmarok]

Ringgg!!! Ringgg!
[drop dinner fork and answer] Me: Hello?
Outsourced Telemarketer: Xddeedxx dffrt
Me: What?
Outsourced Telemarketer: Wuddub xuxvvux zazzxue!
Me: Oh?
Outsourced Telemarketer: Dferguh Zuul. Juju fvuv.
Me: Why, of course! I'll buy a hundred!

DNC aoolies to overseas calls too

[j-turkey]

From the National Do Not Call Registry FAQ

33. Are telemarketing calls from overseas covered?

Yes. Any telemarketers calling U.S. consumers are covered, regardless of where they are calling from. If a company within the U.S. solicits sales through an overseas professional telemarketer, that U.S. company may be liable for any violations by the telemarketer. The FTC can initiate enforcement actions against such companies.

I guess it would make sense that people doing business in the US are still accountable to US laws and regulations. Get their name and number -- file a complaint. It will do us all a favor.

Here is their contact info

[sfjoe]

PARSEC Interact, Inc.
2672 Bayshore Parkway # 703
Mountain View, CA 94043
Phone: 866-9-PARSEC(866-972-7732)
650-960-1884
Fax: 650-960-1881
Email: info@parsecinteract.com

Probably a mail drop

DNC applies to company being represented

[crimethinker]

The do not call list applies whether they have their own employees making the calls, "independent sales representatives," or they contract out to another shop, even one overseas. If the HQ is here, DNC applies.

Sue the companies whose services are being sold. After all, they are paying someone else to hassle you, and so they are ultimately responsible.

I haven't had a discover card for almost 9 years now, and I don't miss it one bit. Crappy customer service, accepted almost nowhere compared to Visa and BastardCard, and higher interest rates, too.

-paul

Huh?

[Otter]

I was a little skeptical of the whole chicken-littlish sky is falling attitude about outsourcing to India, that is until it hit home. Over the last couple of days I have started to receive at least two calls a night from an unknown telemarketing company.

Maybe I'm missing something but:

1) You were skeptical about the significance of the outsourcing issue until you decided that some telemarketing service is outsourced -- and that's the statistical evidence that won you over?

2) Nothing you mentioned suggests that the calling is outsourced anyway.

3) Even if it is, given that they weren't calling you before and now they are, the loss of a hypothetical telemarketing position isn't something that even Lou Dobbs would get too worked up over.

Re:National Do Not Call List

[j-turkey]

Not International. This outsourcing is just another way of getting around the rules.

Incorrect. I pointed this out in my post above (it has a stupid typo in the subject header). The post references this FAQ, which states that:

33. Are telemarketing calls from overseas covered?

Yes. Any telemarketers calling U.S. consumers are covered, regardless of where they are calling from. If a company within the U.S. solicits sales through an overseas professional telemarketer, that U.S. company may be liable for any violations by the telemarketer. The FTC can initiate enforcement actions against such companies.

No no no!

[WSSA]

Don't say "take me off your list", they'll just add you back again. Say "put me on your do-not-call list".

Re:Learn to cuss in Indian

[jonadab]

> Maybe we all need to learn to speak the Indian languages. What do they speak?

That's a tall order. There are almost as many Hindustani languages as there
are African languages. You can see a list of the *major* ones here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Langu ages_of _India

Of course, each village has its own dialect, and a lot of the people are
polyglots. In general, I'd guess that the three languages a random person
from India is most likely to know are probably Hindi, Tamil, and English --
but this is like saying that the three languages a European is most likely
to know are English, German, and Russian. (Note the presense of English
on both lists; it's on the equivalent list for every continent or major
geopolitical region.)