Slashdot Mirror
Can Microsoft Beat Google?
An anonymous reader writes "With all the hype surrounding the recent release of MSN Search, are the search engine wars heating up? There's an interesting article that states, "As the veteran Microsoft enters the already flooded search engine industry, and Google still being fresh and refreshing to most people, it begs the question: can the old supplant the new?""
It will be just like how Microsoft beat AOL at the ISP game.
And just like Microsoft beat Sony in the game box market.
I have a friend who works on the MSN Search team as an intern. He said their marketing budget is massive. The article says that MS invested hundreds of millions of dollars, but I'm guessing most of that is for marketing - NOT the research and development that is needed to come up with a truly innovative search technology. If MS wants to win, they should focus on having a quality product, and not worry so much about promoting it. If they really do make something better, people will use it.
I store my recipes online (the way nature intended)
It's too late. Google is already a verb.
People will never say, "don't ask me, Microsoft it."
Seriously, I think 90% of the hype has been here on /.
As for overtaking, I don't think it will. They just aren't adding enough new value to make it worth breaking a 5 year long habit of typing google.com
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
IE didn't win the browser war as much as Netscape lost the browser war.
Simply put, Netscape sat on their laurels and watched as Microsoft yanked the rug out from under them. Yes, there was underhandedness involved, but at root, Netscape shoulders most of the blame for having lost the browser war.
Thus far, I don't see any indication that Google is going to repeat Netscape's mistakes. Google continues to run a service that is fast, reliable, and modern. They're aggressively broadening their service base, they've attained the pinnacle of name recognition, and they're not showing any signs of letting up.
Whatever comes, this will not be a simple rehash of Netscape vs. IE.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
I like google because I don't like to be bombarded with crap until after I push the search button.
Surely whoever beats Google is likely to have more power and information (or gain it later) than Google themselves? That would really solve your problem.
Google has a head-start, and are presently unencumbered by the bonehead marketers that have ensured that Microsoft produces such sloppy software.
In order to out-take Google, Microsoft would have to adopt it's strictly logical, scientific modus operandi.
Google frontpage: ~4KB HTML
MSN frontpage: umbteen kilobytes of clutter, flash, and totally irrelevant BS.
guess which one im gonna pull up for a simple web search.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashdot.org Errors found while checking this document as HTML5!
search.msn.com is not a verb.
Put that in your pipe and Swiff(tm) it.
Google only stands one chance or their lifespan is
limited to a year or two at best. They have to get
as much stuff on the desktop as they can because MS will integrate their search into the OS. They have got to push firefox now, they need to find a way to own a spot on everbodies desktop and right now firefox is the way to do that.
Got Code?
Just provide a viable alternative to google as hopefully others such as Yahoo will also do. It's really not in our interests for Google to monopolize searching.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
If they really do make something better, people will use it.
Not true. Marketing is everything these days. Why is Britney Spears popular? Quality product? hehe...
Marketing will get them their users, but users that don't know any better. For the tech crowd, yes, Microsoft will have to come up with a better product, though I find that just as amusing as Britney Spears selling records.
Web Design Tips
I personally think it is unlikely that M$ will ever dominate Google no matter how much money they throw at it for a number of reasons.
#1) Google has been branded into people's consciousness as THE way to search the net. While the landscape of search engines is littered with now fallen former champs ala altavista, Google has a ton of momentum behind it as a brand.
As long as they continue to innovate and return the most relevant results, it is very unlikely MSN search will achieve much penetration of this market. Why would people switch otherwise?
#2) M$ has rarely been an innovator in ANYTHING. In the world of search engines, being one step behind just isn't going to cut it. Google has consistently shown themselves to have a bold, creative overall vision. M$ has always lacked one and still does.
#3) Google is now flush with cash after a very successful IPO. Earnings are going gangbusters and look like they will do so for the forseeable future. They are going to be in a financial position to execute on their game plan. M$ may also have a cash hoarde, but Google's stock price and cash give them the tools necessary to challenge M$ on their own turf if so desired.
Momentum is a powerful force, look at Ebay's domination of the auction market. As long as Google continues to lead, and M$ flails along behind, Mr. Softee will remain flaccid in the search engine market.
Seriously, why do you think it's worth it for Microsoft to bother getting into search? It's not because billg's interested in the technology, it's because they have millions of eyeballs anyway because MSN is set as the default homepage in millions of browsers.
They are using their own search with their own advertising system to monetize that advantage. They don't have to be better than Google for that to work, just not completely suck donkeys.
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
Google continues to run a service that is fast, reliable, and modern. They're aggressively broadening their service base, they've attained the pinnacle of name recognition, and they're not showing any signs of letting up.
That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it would be that Google is trying to do too much, too fast. What in the world does trying to be a domain registrar have to do with increasing their search capabilities? Plus, Google's research into search AI is not at the level of Microsoft's. (Never, ever underestimate the power of Microsoft Research.) There are some indications that Google may indeed "sit on their laurels" and let Microsoft pass them by.
You have to realize that Microsoft is a very big, very powerful company with an enormous R&D department and a gigantic marketing machine. Google has won both market share and mind share, but both can be taken. Microsoft is in a position to do it. One underestimates at one's own risk.
The coolest voice ever.
Let's take a look into the recent past:
How did MS's IE beat Netscape? By integrating IE it into Windows. Don't you think that the MS plans to make this search technology 'hard wired' into future (or even current) Windows releases to circumvent users's access or choice in using Google?
Netscape also had some serious quality control issues which was the final nail into its coffin. I suspect, however, that Google is in a much better position to compete than Netscape ever was. But, they're going to have a serious fight on their hands--it's not about quality, it's all about quantity to Microsoft. The more drones out there who start using MS's search engines because the next Windows iteration pushes Google aside will start to erode at Google's profitability and they will play a long hard war of attrition.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
2) The domain problem. For those few who do not have a Google bookmark (or have a built-in window a la Safari and Firefox), they can likely type "google.com" into their browser faster than...(they're already typing in their query). "search.msn.com" is just, for lack of a better word, ugly.
Innovation: Microsoft should buy a simple domain as a home for their search. Which brings us to...
3) The branding problem. For a company has huge and rich as Microsoft, they are strangely conservative about protecting the amazingly well-entrenched brand "Windows" (whether that's a valid trademark is an other issue). It's almost as if Microsoft has given up on branding and just "wings it" (Windows Movie Maker? Windows Media 9?). Face it, just adding "Windows" or "Microsoft" or "msn" (ooh, that rolls of the tongue) breaks all the rules of branding. Google is a verb because it is fanciful.
The internet did change some things, and one of them is that in a sense the net does not play by some traditional economic rules. We're not in a zero-sum game any longer. There's no reason why google and MSN search cannot both thrive, despite what the binary thinkers here feel. In a sense, there's no google vs. ms argument because users do not need to commit to one or another. I use both every day.
That's why it's not the same as the browser wars: people do not use two browsers simultaneously. But they can easily use two search engines in two different windows.
The main thing that will keep stopping me from using MSN search is the size of the page that the search box is hosted on.
I don't want to load a web portal or a news website, I just want a search box with a "go" button.
Microsoft needs to register www.microsearch.com or something and put a minimalist, google style interface up there.
Sure, everything comes to an end eventually. Rome fell eventually, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to bet against them if I were living out the prime of my life around 1 AD.
They could use the same tactics they used so that IE beat Netscape. OK so they would lose a court case but they're prepared to pay a few bucks on the way to global domination.
init 11 - for when you need that edge.
How about the consumer? With all these companies vying for our attention, there's bound to be a few really great innovations along the way.
It is possible to beat Microsoft.
A perfect example of this is Intuit. They've managed to keep Microsoft at bay despite fierce competition. Those flames were fanned when an acquisition of Intuit fell through therefore strengthening Microsoft's resolve.
Nevertheless Intuit is still with unlike lots of MS road kill that comes to mind.
This question to some degree seems pointless. It assumes that somehow Microsoft's desktop monopoly will mean that people will stop using a web application (search) with a brand that has become incredibly powerful.
This seems like a variation on all the claims that Apple was on its death bed eight years ago. In fact I remember seeing NBC News running a story that seemed to echo this industry consensus.
And despite Microsoft's desktop domination, it seems most Microsoft employees (much to the chagrin of MS management) are opting to patronize Apple with its latest creation, the iPod. The story in Wired was featured in Slashdot just recently.
Google is incredibly entrenched in people's minds. It has become a powerful brand. Evidence of this is the fact that people readily use its name as a verb.
Microsoft setting its search engine as the default for whatever future browser they release will *not* cause people to stop using Google.
-M
Actually, they can to a certain extent - at least, they can integrate MSN search into their desktop search tool, and all their apps. "It looks like you're searching for something. Would you like to use MSN to search the Internet?".
Also, I personally think that they don't really want to be in the search engine market - they just don't want to risk Google's brand becoming predominant over theirs...
and I use it every day, it's not perfect.
If it put a small header at the top with things it thought were "catagories" as suggestions to refine your search, that wouldn't suck. (I'm aware of how easy that is to say, and how difficult it is to do quickly and well)
If they had a simple option to filter blog comments out for all the blog software, or better yet collect them, display them as an option like they suggest for misspellings...
On the other hand, if MSN starts to show a marked increase in the usefulness of their hits, adding handy features I can't guess at, or next gen technologies such as humming that tune, or sketching a picture, word of mouth will spread pretty quick, and google will take it on the chin. Big ifs, but in the realm of possible.
Despite the contemporary views of Slashdoters, I'm fairly certain Google has a healthy respect for Microsoft Research, as well as the giant's budget. With the well documented smoking corpses of former companies providing a compelling warning about the pitfalls of complacency.
Might as well give up. It absolutely amazes me that the guys behind this site and ArsTechnica and countless other sites, where college degrees are everywhere (hell, Ars has people getting their Doctorates).. and they still have no fucking clue what "begs the question" really means.
Blessed be he who reads this post, Cursed be he who tells my boss.
Google automatically starts out ahead in the game: The percentage of people out there that have favorable thoughts associated with the name "Google" is higher (probably on the order of a few magnitude) than those who think positive thoughts of "Microsoft".
Simply because I strongly dislike Microsoft (and thus everything associated with them), I will continue to use Google.
Microsoft would have to seriously surpass Google in order for me to switch, and I suspect the same goes for many others.
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!
Too many people are forgetting that although 99.99% of people on here are proper computer geeks, we make up about 0.001% of all the people that use computers and the internet.
The majority of computer users know of no reason why they should hate Microsoft, when you consider how many people still don't even know what spy/mal/parasiteware is, or the amount of people who don't know what a firewall is or have an up to date virus checker etc.
People are quite happy to use whatever tool is first there (why else would they download so many spyware toolbars?), many millions of people in this world have MSN as their homepage either because they don't know how to change it or they actually use the search functions on there.
Yes Google is very very well known, as is Microsoft and MSN. While the marketing ploy wont work with us geeks, I'll quite happily bet it'll affect large numbers of 'ordinary' computer users.
I love the slick, clean and crisp design of Google but it's amazing the amount of people who prefer a site such as MSN because it's got pretty flashing lights, lots of colour and all the rest of the shit on it.
Just because we're geeks doesn't mean that everyone else thinks like us.
People (A9.com, MSN search, etc) don't seem to understand that the reason why most people use Google is because of it's lightning-fast interface. It's simple... It's quick... The second I hit MSN's search page, i though, "Ugh... Look at all the CRAP that has to load every time I want to go here."
"hey, could you pass me a paper towel? er.. I mean... DEPLOY ABSORBTION PANEL!"
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Shows how much you know even with a 5 digit slashdot account! The original mac had colour and shipped with at least 1 game, had some upgradebility. It also had a GUI, something which no other computer had at the time. Call yourself a geek? :p
Jonathanjk.com
Google is a good search engine but they've been completely owned by 'optimizers' [I have a slightly less polite term for them] for years now. Google really needs to radically change Pagerank soon, the worse their results get the more vulnerable they are to a competitor with better technology. It happened to us when I worked at AltaVista, we tried adding a bunch of features instead of improving core search results and we got completely killed by Google which had almost no features, just better results.
You don't need folders, you douche.
You are incorrect. For example, a friend of mine (and an ex-boss), very smart guy and pretty well respected in the search community is already working for them.
Microsoft's usual product pattern is (IMHO):
1.0: Pretty useless and not in the same class as the market leader.
2.0: Not as good as the market leader but you could use it in a pinch.
3.0: About as good as the market leader.
4.0: Market leader fell down stairs or something and mysteriously MS is ahead now.
I would say that MSN search is up to about 2.0 right now.