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Why Does Windows Still Suck?

RatBastard writes "SF Gate's Mark Morford asks: Why Does Windows Still Suck? After wtaching his significant other's Windows PC drown in a sea of viruses and worms after only 4 minutes on her new DSL connection, Mark Morford wonders why the masses have not stormed Redmond waving torches and scythes in anger over the never-ending security flaws in Windows. Why haven't they jetisoned the foul beast from Redmond and migrated en mass to the Macintosh or even Linux?"

32 of 1,995 comments (clear)

  1. Why? by JNighthawk · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm a gamer.

    --
    Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'.
    1. Re:Why? by DLWormwood · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It's a great answer. Succint and to the point.

      As a long time Mac user and developer, I'd have to agree. While the original article mentions that 97% of tasks can be performed by Macs just fine, it's that confounded 3% that Microsoft has been able to exploit in the marketplace. Games, enterprise business apps, and obscure in-house projects have pretty much sustained the Windows platform up to this point. Creatives, home users, and students (the Mac's historical user base) have not had the financial or political clout to compete with the technological preferences many IT organizations have.

      --
      Those who complain about affect & effect on /. should be disemvoweled
    2. Re:Why? by grumpygrodyguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, a more interesting discussion would be:

      "Why does Linux still suck?"

      Talk about presumptuous.

      --
      The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
    3. Re:Why? by JPrice · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But why would I, one of the unwashed, game-playing masses, start using another OS?

      Sure, I could stop playing 95% of the games I like, install Linux, and then let my computer sit idle (I really don't use my home computer for anything other than playing games) while I wait for game developers to start producing games for my new OS of choice. But I'm not that altruistic. And neither is anyone else.

      The fact of the matter is that Windows is currently by far the best platform for playing PC games, and, with a little bit of technical sense ("use a firewall"), it's "good enough" for pretty much everything else. There is currently no compelling reason for gamers to switch OSes, and as a result, no compelling reason for the bulk of publishers to release games for anything other than Windows.

    4. Re:Why? by JPrice · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why bother? As a gamer, 80% of my home computer-using time is spent playing games (90% of which don't run in Linux). The remaining 20% is taken up by web browsing (using FireFox) and email (using Thunderbird).

      As I said in another post, if you're primarily a gamer, chances are that Windows is "good enough" for any non-gaming application you want to use. If you've got a firewall installed and don't use IE, chances are good you've never run into anything like the author of the article describes. At which point, there's really no appeal to the bother of rebooting every time you want to switch between game and non-game applications.

    5. Re:Why? by gonk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Someone mod the parent up...! Really, I mean it.

      I've been using Linux since '92 or so. It does a lot of neat things. I used it as my desktop for years.

      Two years ago I got a new laptop and then a new job at a company that does a lot of Microsoft Exchange related work. So, I tried XP out, because I hadn't really tried a MS product in a long time. Guess what? XP is pretty fucking good. Sorry, it is.

      Oh yeah. Exchange is pretty fucking good, too. So is Active Directory.

      Deal with it.

      robert

    6. Re:Why? by Wannabe+Code+Monkey · · Score: 5, Funny

      I play games and use linux exclusively. I have an xbox.

      (for the smart arses that are going to point out the xbox runs a custom win2k kernel, i know, that doesn't count)

      That doesn't make any sense, you can't just arbitrarily decide what does and doesn't count

      I have lots of sex and with women exclusively. I also have sex with other straight guys.
      (for the smart arses that are going to point out that having sex with another guy is gay, i know, that doesn't count)

      I have a lot of fun and don't do drugs. I like crack cocaine
      (for the smart arses that are going to point out that crack is modified cocaine, i know, that doesn't count)

      I'm good at solving problems and never use violence against any person to do so. I smack my wife around.
      (for the smart arses that are going to point out that women are people too, i know, that doesn't count)

      --
      We always knew Comcast was corrupt, here's the proof: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1909890&cid=34545432
  2. Common sense, for the love of Pete... by winkydink · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why would you let your SO attach an unpatched and unprotected PC to the Internet? Would the author let her walk SF's Tenderloin after dark in a halter, leather mini & fishnets?

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:Common sense, for the love of Pete... by Bongoots · · Score: 5, Funny

      If an unpatched and unprotected PC connected to the Internet turns you on as much as a chick walking down SF's Tenderloin after dark in a halter, leather mini & fishnets, I'd be concerned as well.

    2. Re:Common sense, for the love of Pete... by Aardpig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why would you let your SO attach an unpatched and unprotected PC to the Internet?

      To download security patches from Microsoft? There is a real chicken and egg situation here; you need to go online to patch your machine, but as soon as you are online you are hit by worms.

      --
      Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
    3. Re:Common sense, for the love of Pete... by Malc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Even easier: http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=3 4&scid=29&prid=561

      There's no chicken and egg about it as the other poster seemed to think. Whatever OS you're running, make sure you're behind one of these routers - there's a huge choice and they're fairly cheap these days (less than the cost of 1 month on DSL for a lot of people).

    4. Re:Common sense, for the love of Pete... by stinky+wizzleteats · · Score: 5, Insightful

      paraphrased: firewall, etc.

      Red herring. What portion of the 91% of computer users infected with spyware were infected by an inbound attack? I'll give you a hint. It's probably smaller than the number of Linux workstations in use currently as personal computers. The vast majority of infected users got that way as a direct result of the hideous security flaw that is IE. All they had to do was visit the wrong web site. Windows firewall can do NOTHING to stop that.

  3. Simple by temojen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They don't know of anything else, and Windows came with the computer.

    1. Re:Simple by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful
      More than that: Often, they don't know there is anything else.

      This might come as a surprise to the /. community, but many users don't understand the concept of an "operating system". Many users don't know the difference between Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office. Many users don't even understand that things go on "behind the scenes", and so they think that the difference between Linux, Windows, and OSX are just GUI changes and different programs.

  4. No problem with Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's not a problem with Windows! The operating system is okay! It's digitally signed!

  5. easy by briancnorton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They don't care
    Sounds like too easy of an answer, but for non-tech savvy people, a computer is just a tool for email, web, etc. If computers were a vital part of people's lives, they might care. Corporations can pay administrators to keep their computers clean, but joe twelvepack doesn't use his computer for anything that he can't do without. QED.

    --

    People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.

  6. Also... by daveo0331 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The worms and viruses are designed to be hard to detect. People have infected machines that they don't know are infected. Out of sight, out of mind.

    --
    Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
  7. Reluctance to change by revscat · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I know that Mac people frequently get labeled with the "zealot" label, but there is something that I have noticed about friends and family who are Windows users: for whatever reasons they are reluctant if not opposed to change, even in the face of all available evidence. It's nothing explicit, but mention OS X or Linux to them and they immediately go on the defensive, as if you are quetioning them and their decision making abilities ("Well, Windows can do that, too."), instead of seeing what you are attempting to do, which is point out some rather important problems with Windows as an OS.

    Perhaps this is just human nature. But as a "switcher" who is approaching his one year anniversary with a PowerMac after almost 20 years of Windows and DOS (starting with DOS 2.0!) I can honestly say: Windows users, it's not your fault. Microsoft should be ashamed, not you. Windows sucks, and there are better choices out there for you. Make them! You'll be happy that you did.

  8. You know why? by killermookie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's the same reason why people don't storm the White House...

    It's the same reason why people don't storm the RIAA headquarters...

    It's the same reason why people don't storm the *insert whatever you like*...

    Sure, Slashdotters might get angry and send off snail mail/email/faxes to whoever they're angry at. But we're a minority.

    The MAJORITY are just too complacent with their lives. They're happy within their immediate environment. They may think it's not right, but they'll never take the action against it. It's too much of a hassle.

    So instead they just acceot it. Windows crashing is obviously not so much of an inconvenience that they must storm Redmond. It's easier to push the reset button.

  9. Lot of Reasons by lbmouse · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do people eat at McDonald's? They definitely don't make the best burger in town.

    Things like consistency, convenience, perceived value, brand recognition, etc., all play a big role.

  10. Same thing with Solaris boxes... by calebb · · Score: 5, Funny

    Try connecting an unpatched Solaris 2.6 box to the internet. Within a day it will be hacked and much more dangerous than any hacked Windows PC.

    Caleb

  11. WINDOWS DOESN'T SUCK! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    damn it, i'm sick of all the windows bashing.. it's an awesome OS... comes complete with a calculator and a paint program, not to mention the ability to clean your disk (i don't know how they do it, but they must have some crazy washer/dryer system inside) I hear this grinding sound inside my computer so that must be it. Also, it has the ability to change the background picture... how freakin' cool is that!? I can put up a picture of my cats!!! IT'S RIGHT THERE ON MY MONITOR!!! What more could you ask for in an OS?! Come on people!

  12. Re:Maybe He Just Married a Moron by Bert690 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Cars don't suck because they crash when people drive drunk, the drivers do. Windows doesn't suck when idiots connect it to a high speed network unprotected, the moron using it does.

    Not a very accurate analogy. Wouldn't it suck if the car were to unconditionally burst into flames unless you were sure to also purchase an extra $1000 in "safety features" and have them installed perfectly before ever attempting to drive it? (And without the dealer actually telling you this.)

    Get it now? You microsoft apologists should really get a clue.

  13. YOU GUYS ALWAYS MISS THE OBVIOUS... by Mighty_Marcos · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If all the software that people ran was available on linux and macs, games included, then more people, including myself, would switch. And honestly, I am computer savvy, but I am not even sure if there are still many different versions/releases of linux outhere, where to get them from, wether they are free or I gotta buy them. I know IT guys are all over linux, but I don't think the article, and the question is poses are aimed at IT/programmer types. So in a nutshell, being a regular guy using my computer, if there was more software available for linux, and it was clear how to acquire it, I would be switching. Most people, like myself just want to put a disc in a drive,install and not worry about it any more.

  14. Re:Maybe He Just Married a Moron by LWATCDR · · Score: 5, Insightful

    " Maybe if his S.O. was a little more competent, Windows wouldn't suck so much."

    Think about it. If it was a TV.
    "My SO plugged the brand new TV into the cable system and 4 minutes later it stopped working." You SO is a moron. Why wasn't your SO smart enough to open the back of the TV and rewire the power supply!
    Or if it was a car.
    "My SO just got a new car and the engine was trashed after driving it 4 minutes."
    Why was your SO so stupid to drive a brand new car with out first opening the hood and setting the valve clearance!

    You statement is just dumb and insulting. She is not a moron. She is just not a system admin. What is moronic is that people are selling Windows XP boxes that are so insecure that they can not live on the Internet long enough to download SP2.

    Maybe every Windows Box should come with the network stack inactive. When you want to connect to the Internet a special super restricted TCP/IP stack pops up and downloads the latest updates for you. Windows is being pushed as a consumer item it should be expected to act like one.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  15. Classic slashdot technical discussions by viva_fourier · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can already tell this article will find itself in league with the all-time great classic technical-discussion.slashdot.org postings such as:

    -Why does Windows still blow?
    -Why does my Tux tattoo still itch?
    -Why can't I still get a date?

    --
    and now back to the fallout shelter...
  16. It's a Catch-22 by KiltedKnight · · Score: 5, Insightful
    People won't switch because the games aren't there, and the games aren't there because the market share hasn't gotten to a point where it makes sense to provide lots of support.

    The whole topic of games development using DirectX vs OpenGL has been discussed to death here. Sure, the game writers could do it in OpenGL instead of DirectX, but Microsoft has apparently made using DirectX extremely easy. Maybe what it will take is someone to write a translation library that will basically translate the DirectX calls into OpenGL calls. Once that's out there, more games can be done for non-Windows systems. While all that's going on, OpenGL must be made friendlier to use than DirectX.

    OK, it's a lot... but if you really want to lure the games developers to the side of platform independence, you have to give them a good reason to do so.

    --
    OCO is Loco
  17. Anyone remember the Windows Refund effort? by KiltedKnight · · Score: 5, Informative
    There was an attempt to get money refunded because people said that they didn't want Windows pre-installed. The way to get the refund was to take the computer out of the box, put a different OS installation disk in, and install the new OS, completely nuking Windows off the machine. With this done, you could get a refund of the cost of Windows, because you did not accept the terms of the EULA.

    When you tried to do this, companies would say that you needed to contact Microsoft for the refund. Microsoft would say you needed to contact the computer seller. Once you finished running around in circles, you found out that it only cost the manufacturer about $1.00 to put the copy of Windows on that machine, and that's what you'd have refunded to you.

    Of course, if you needed to get Windows back on the machine, now you'd have to pay the $180 for a full copy of it, because you had to return any and all materials from your computer purchase in order to get your dollar back.

    Of course, if you managed to convince the manufacturer to sell you a computer without an operating system pre-installed, you had to pay an extra $10-$50 for that choice. Why? In order to be sure the computer worked in the first place, they had to install Windows to test the peripherals and other devices! Oh, did you want warranty support too? Sorry. "We don't support other operating systems."

    The whole pre-installation thing was pure genius on the part of Microsoft's marketing department.

    --
    OCO is Loco
  18. Why would this even be posted on /.? by rushmobius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So I was reading /. when I came across a typical 'OMG Windows SuXors' article..

    I casually sipped my afternoon coffee, set it down, and clicked the article link, bracing myself for the deluge of mind-numbing numbers and references to obscure studies.

    After reading the article, I looked to the right side-bar for a list of other recent articles by the author. Trying to get a feel for the authors views, I decided to peruse a few of them.

    Well, I must say. Mark Morford has to be one of the most rabid, extremist, over-reactive, leftist, tin-foil hat wearing, Moore wannabe's I've had the displeasure of reading.

    Now, before the flames begin to rise, please understand the last paragraph was a simple reciprocle example of Mr. Morford's diatribes. Basically take a simple statement, and make it appear so sensationistically over-the-top.

    So now to my point. How can this article be used on a news site, when it is simply nothing more than a rant? I use Linux and Windows, and on occasion Macs. I rarely have any problems with any of my systems. I have never had my Windows boxed filled with virii/trojans, nor have I had a crash in as long as I can remember. Am I just one of the lucky ones, or do I simply ignore the little monkey moving back and forth in a feeble attempt to evade my mouse click for a Free iPod

  19. Now there's the Knoppix Live CD by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In order to be sure the computer worked in the first place, they had to install Windows to test the peripherals and other devices!

    That may have been an excuse in 1999, but Knot anymore.

  20. Why the hatred and the defensiveness???? by theolein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fuck, 800 plus comments as of now, and no one with any real insight gets modded up? Perhaps that is the problem, in itself? No one, not one person that I saw, attempted to take the arrticle and make a decent discussion out of it.

    Premise 1: We have a computer user, who is a journalist, has been using Macs for nigh on 15 years, is not extremely tech savy (Get to that in a mo') and sees that his fellow computers users, most of them on one of the millions of brands of PC and one of the various flavours of Windows, be it from Win98 to WinXP, have, in general, more problems with their computers than he does.

    What does all that tell me?

    I am a Mac user myself (well, I use a PC as well with Linux and Win2000 on it and I used to be a Windows shop sys admin). I agree with his OBSERVATIONS 100%. I mean observations because apart from his subjective ranting on why the world doesn't string BillG up from the rafters, which is his OPINION, his article has a good point.

    I have seen and expereienced the same problems with Windows machines, until learning better, such as the 20 seconds till being hacked when first going online with WinXP and the numerous bugs in the OS over the years. Yes, I know as well as you that putting a simple router in front of the machine stops 90% of the bugs and being careful about mails and what you download and keeping up with pacthces will stop the rest, but it is a real pain and, in my experience, one has to ask the simple question: why?

    In that I agree with the article. Using Windows is more complex than a Mac with OSX. Now on to the tech savy bit. The author writes about the prize that was offered for hacking the webserver Webstar, which was the only real webserver on classic Mac OS. It was never used widely in the server world and thus is not a good example of application security. The guy reveals his lack of expertise because, all those who know that OSX is based on BSD know that the webserver shipped with OSX is Apache, the same one that upsets the numbers game of OSS with respect to commercial offerings when compared to IIS.

    Also, the argument that Windows has more software available is a real one, especially for gamers and for CAD and specialised business applications and the situation will stay that way while Windows has such a dominating marketshare.

    And that is a reason for staying with Windows, but it isn't the reason why 90% of the world's computer using public uses PC's and Windows. That reason is simply because PC's are more available and most people have no idea that there are alternatives and are only interested in getting a "computer" with which they can chat, browse, mail, write letters, store photos, listen to music etc. Although a Mac arguably, in my experience, does all of this much better than Windows does, most people will simply go to the nearest shop and use what is there.

    Ahmen.

  21. eDirectory! by ImaLamer · · Score: 5, Informative
    Active Directory is pretty sweet and all....

    In fact I stopped hating Microsoft (for a while) after my first 10 installs of 2000 Server and Active Directory. I fell for the hype, which was mostly true, until I used Novell Netware 6.0 with eDirectory.

    eDirectory is the same, plus better and it runs on Linux, Windows and pretty much any place you want to install it. The licensing is a lot more straight-forward, it's better than Active Directory, runs on Linux and it's Novell. We love Novell now don't we?

    I say the question is:
    Why Does Everyone Think Novell Still Sucks?