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NIST Releases Study Of CD/DVD Longevity
dirkin writes "The National Institute of Standards and Technology has released a preliminary study of the potential lifespan of CD-Rs and DVD-Rs. The PDF study is here. A good starting point for deciding what type of media to purchase to keep those backups and photos kicking around longer. (You DID buy the silver/gold alloy phthalocyanine CDs, didn't you?)"
Take multiple backups and atleast have one backup on high quality CD-Rss not the 25c a piece ones.
Keep upgrading your Harddisk from time to time and backup data from old HD to new one.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
>treat them like a mushroom and keep them in the dark.
RTFA. That's what they did; they kept them in a closed cabinet for two years in their original packaging. Some brands were toast after two years.
The fact that your CD-R discs appear to be readable after 4-5 years isn't a useful data point. These guys used CD analyzer hardware (CDA-3000) to check the quality of the discs. CD's have error checking and the damage may not yet be noticeable to the end user until later.
FWIW, I can't remember having a single CD-R go bad. I've had some scrathed ones which took a while to read because the reading drive slowed to a crawl, but I got the data nonetheless. I even recently found what must have been one of the first CD-Rs I've ever burned. Must have been from around '96 or '97, it had my backup copy of Duke Nukem 3D on it, among other stuff, and everything read fine (the disc was a Sony CDQ-74CN).
Did you know you can fertilize your lawn with used motor oil?
If you burn the CD at slower speeds, the laser has more time to burn better pits in the media.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
I used to work for a company in Austin, TX whose speciality was optical drives (not CDs, but WORM mostly), and one of our customers was the National Archives. This was when CD-Rs were just coming out, and the NA was interested in a cost/benefit analysis of whether or not they could replace their expensive 14" WORM systems with cheap CD-Rs.
The first thing to understand is that WORM systems, true WORM systems, not the Magnetic-Optical pseudo-WORM systems, are built on ablation of material in the disc itself. In other words, you burn holes in the disc revealing a lower layer that is reflective. In the case of most discs, and Kodak especially, they were gold on the reflective layer for long-term stability. Various tests of accelerated degradation were performed in both climate stabilized and non-stabilized situations, and at worst, the discs were stable for 100 years before any error correction was necessary.
We decided to perform the same kind of evaluation of CD-Rs, and found that brand varied greatly. The best were stable for 3-4 years, the worst only 6-8 months if the climate changed dramatically. In addition, UV exposure had a radical impact on the life-span of the disc. Further research found out that the problem was the natural instability of the organic dyes that were used in the disc layers.
Basically, if the disc wasn't perfectly sealed (look at the work done in the referenced article, and how it starts at the edges), oxygen would get in and react with the dye, which would change it's characteristics relatively quickly. It doesn't take much before the dye structure collapses, and data becomes unreadable after a short period. While I suspect the dyes have gotten better over time, they're still organic last I knew, and still subject to degradation by contact with air. Quality control is the only thing that will get you anything here, and I suspect even the best dye-based discs can't make it past 20 years unless exposure to UV is totally eliminated.
What Kodak had developed was what they called "Century Discs", which were basically scaled down WORM discs, but in CD-ROM format. They were gold inside, non-reactive, and well made. They did, however, require a very expensive writer because they needed more power than a CD-R drive could ever hope to provide to force the burn away the spots. They were, however, readable in a normal drive.
That's just my experience, but everytime I've seen an organization talking about "archiving" on CD-R, I have issues with it. It's fine for "backup," where the data cycle is shorter, but true archival purposes (for example, financial data), it won't cut it. You either need to use WORM, or tape. Tape is, however, subject to problems over the cycles as well, witness the failing properties of 9-track tapes written by NASA in the 1970s (heard first hand, not sure where to find it written up). Linear-write systems are better than helical.
Just a few thoughts, but this is not an easy issue. You have to understand what you're storing, and how long it has to be readable before you consider an actual medium for storage.
actually, I was going through my legally obtained mpeg-4 backup CDs earlier this week, and found a number of Discs had irrecoverable errors on them, despite having been kept at room temperature, in cd sleeves, and having no scratches. The longevity of cheap to medium grade CD media is not nearly as high as you'd think.
As others have noted, the technologies used in the media are never printed on the packaging. Furthe, like many commodity items, the wrapper has nothing to do with who actually made the media. One spindle of Brand Y disks can be made by Manufacturer A, and the spindle twice its size, with the same labelling, also from Brand Y- will be made by Manufacturer Z. It is extremely difficult to be an educated consumer under these conditions.
It happens in lots of other places- gasolene is not "made" by Mobil; Mobil, Hess, Shell, Sunoco etc contract to area distributors. The distributors buy from whoever is the cheapest or distributes to their area; they slosh-mix any company-specific additives, if any, on the way to the station. Milk? Guess what- federal law requires that the bottling plant's registration number be printed on every bottle of milk. Next time you're in the store, notice how the brand name and generic store brand milk have the same prefix on that stamped number? Notice the brand name milk is pretty expensive compared to the store brand stuff? Dirty little secret of the milk industry, in plain view.
When I need CD-R/DVD-R media, I don't want to have to spend an hour sitting on some webforum reading posts to find out what the most reliable media looks like this week and where to buy it. I want to walk into a store, see "gold type cyno-whatever", see it's $2 more for a spindle of 20 than the other stuff, and walk out.
Though I'm sure there is collusion among manufacturers at the moment, it's only a matter of time before one manufacturer realizes they can market their product based on media type/chemistry thanks to this report educating buyers (the major PC mags will probably pick this up in an issue or two).
What bugs me is how bad my DVD-R disks SMELL. I have to hold the spindle at arm's length when I open the cakebox, and leave the room until the disk is done, because it reeks. I want to know what the hell makes it smell so bad...or, then again, maybe I don't...
Please help metamoderate.
Mitsui licensed the process to Kodak, and still sells the Gold/Silver CD-Rs under either the Mitsui or MAM-A trade names.
Older discussion: Say Goodbye To Your CD-Rs In Two Years?
afterdawn had a discussion on CD-R brands a while back. In short, go with Taiyo Yuden. And to identify Taiyo Yuden?
heres a document that may help: http://www.memorex.com/downloads/whitepapers/Refer ence%20Guide%20for%20Optical%20Media%209-9.pdf
page 24+ has some info on the different dyes and reflective layers.
Believe me, if they've got it , they'll print it on the box for you - it's not like you can get many other differentiating features in CD's.
:-)
Kodak Gold Ulitma CD's were a silver / gold alloy. I've still got a few from my first burner... they're 5 years old now and still (apparently) ok.
Here's a FAQ about data life of kodak CD's. Accelerated aging at 80 degrees C and 80% RH seems a bit tough
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
Useful info on a few of the manufacturers, thx. But seriously, are you really attempting to describe the performance of a digital storage medium with terms used to describe the way the stored data sounds? "bright", "good and neutral", "richer, 'tube' toned"?
The terms you use correlate to accuracy of reproduction of various frequency of audio. Audio stored on a CD (I"m not talking about CD with mp3 files on it) is stored as a sequence of samples... that is to say strictly as a time-domain function.
I can't think of any possible way that the performance of the medium could have an effect on the sound of the audio that could be remotely described by the terms you've used.
I have to wonder how true the results of Alcohol 120 really are though. (Note that I've not used it, so I can't really say).
From the CD-Recordable FAQ:
"Two components that many users of these programs always take as gospel are Media Manufacturer and Dye Data. These two readings are next to worthless.
The reason for this is that many CD-R manufacturers (like CD- Recordable.com) purchase their stampers (the nickel die that all CD-R substrates are molded from) from 3rd party sources. These 3rd party sources (either other disc manufacturers, or mastering houses) encode the data that these 'Identification' programs read, at the time that the original glass master is encoded. The 'Manufacturer' information that is encoded is usually the name of the company that made the master. Since stampers made from that master will be sold to disc manufacturers the world over, all of discs that those manufacturers produce from those stampers will contain the same 'Manufacturer' information. Information which is obviously quite erroneous and irrelevant. Very seldom will the 'manufacturer' information encoded on a CD-R actually tell you anything other than who made the original master. [...]
The second piece of data (the dye type) is also dubious. Because most master/stamper configurations are designed to be matched to specific dye types (Phthalocyanine, Cyanine, Azo, Etc), the 'Dye' information that is encoded when the master is produced indicates the type of dye that the master was designed for. This of course, does not assure that the manufacturer that buys and uses this stamper will be using it with the dye that it has been designed for. It is quite possible that a stamper/dye combination is used by a CD-R manufacturer that contradicts the 'dye' information encoded on the master. Therefore that information becomes as potentially misleading as the 'Manufacturer' data discussed earlier."
The only reliable piece of information in the "ATIP" region is the disc length. See section (2-38) for further remarks."
-- Joe
I have several old Kodak gold CDs recorded on an HP 4x burner about five years ago (about US$400 -- top of the line at the time) which have died. They were stored in an airtight plastic camera box with dessicant and rarely removed. Now the dead ones seem to have some sort of dull, milky film on the shiny surface. Cause of death is unknown. Their neighbors (the exact same gold discs in the same box) are still OK, but I am making backups while I can. You can't necessarily trust gold either :-(