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Windows Longhorn Beta for June Release
An Anonymous Reader writes "According to CNET, the Windows Longhorn Beta 1 is supposedly set for release this June. The Register has commentary on the delays the new OS has faced." From the article: "Longhorn was originally supposed to ship in 2004. In May, this year release was pushed back to 2005. This week Longhorn's availability has been delayed even further, with Microsoft execs declining to say when exactly the operating system might ship, eWeek reports."
So what makes this June Release by one Microsoft executive more believable than other announcements?
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
"We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia."
"Longhorn will be released next year. It has always been planned to be released next year."
Much like the war in Orwell's 1984, Windows will never be complete. It's been a long time since the last major overhaul. Maybe they need to just make Windows a perpetual upgrade. Each release will have a major component update.
Windows XP: Unified Home/Pro editions
Longhorn: Avalon & Indigo
Blackcomb: WinFS
Now that Windows is `for the most part` on a standardized framework (.NET), they should be able to just release updates based on this framework, whether it be for current major release or retroactively. If you need some component installed, just make sure it's prereq's are there. Oh wait - this sounds a lot like Linux.
Yes? No? Who the hell cares?
The point is, these pushbacks have given open source the chance to make major innovation, and there isn't long left to take this major opportunity.
My gut feeling is that Longhorn will knock the socks off whatever is out there at the time, unless developers really plan ahead, and come up with innovative features etc.
Some would say the pendulum is swinging towards Open Source on the desktop at the moment, but I worry that Longhorn could stop that in its tracks.
You cant make anything foolproof, they'll only invent better fools.
Having 100+ Gigs is fairly common. Will Longhorn take 20G to install??? Every 'new' windows version has made my 'current' computer seem slow. I expect the same again....
A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. Dwight D. Eisenhower
...to that spyware and virus free (so far), shipping operating system that you can buy today! Look over here, at this great stuff we'll be selling Real Soon Now!"
Hopefully Tiger will appear sooner than currently expected, to prevent this.
I do agree. I'm tired of seeing less-than-spectacular releases in the Windows line. WinME? That was pointless.
How about Longhorn being the "browserless OS?" If they hold true to that it means we'll probably be even more vulnerable to IE exploits--like hijacking our desktop background instead of just our browser homepage.
I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't redesign their product to focus on 3 things: the kernel, the GUI, and the rest of the apps they ship with Windows.
The one thing I love about Linux is the fact that the kernel is almost always stable. It rarely crashes. (with the exception of the use of alpha-release drivers or bad system memory) Yes, X may sprout some problems eventually but it doesn't take the whole system down.
The other thing they need to do is stop integrating software into the OS. I can't stress this enough. I don't want to have to worry about my entire OS being vulnerable because IE has been integrated into every possible aspect of my GUI. Keep it simple, keep it segmented in modules.
If they could ship an OS that had a rock-solid kernel, with a nice GUI shipped with it, and a few apps (IE, OE, etc) shipped as extras on the cd/dvd then I think they would finally have a worthy product on their hands.
Not that it will matter. Longhorn won't even be shipping with WinFS, while Tiger already has Spotlight. Let Microsoft release a "developer beta." Apple is still going to get all the positive press.
Does Microsoft actually care about Mac OS X at all, whether as a competitive threat or even a comparative yardstick?
At a recent university talk, Gates claimed that the only OSes that would be around in 10 years would be Windows and Linux. Now that could simply be a snub to Jobs, or it could indicate that he doesn't even consider Mac to be on the radar anymore. With less than 2% marketshare, Mac OS X is pretty much inconsequential in both the predominantly Windows consumer market, or Windows/Linux enterprise market.
The ironic thing is, that if Mac OS X *were* to be around in 10 years, Microsoft would likely to be making far more money off it than if it disappeared. Why? The high gross margins (80+%) from Office mean that Microsoft often makes more money from a Mac bought with Office than Apple does (the gross margin on a Mac is 20+%).
With only Linux as an alternative OS, Microsoft would likely make nothing, unless Microsoft plans to start selling software for Linux...
Personally I think Microsoft does actually pay attention to Apple and uses them as a sort of free R&D lab. However, publicly, Gates seems to deny they're relevant now, and not at all in the future.
Interesting...
I say the same thing, but for Windows 2000. I have yet to find a show stopper at home to upgrade to XP. I don't see myself leaving 2000 on my desktop unless its to Linux (Which is already on file server/laptop).
Bye!
I am as poor as a church mouse whose wife has run off with another mouse, taking all the cheese with her. I am looking forward to Longhorn because then lots of people will upgrade their kit and i get to inherit some newer stuff.
My most recent hand-me-downs were from guys updating graphics cards for doom3 and HL2.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Is this exactly not what happened in the episode of the Simpsons episode where Lisa creates a doll called "Lisa Lionheart" only to be knocked out at the last minute with the "New" Malabu Stacy, which was the old Malabu Stacy, but with a hat.
I guess Microsoft's sales of Malabu Stacys (Windows) is slowing. I guess it is time for them to release a new version "NOW WITH A HAT"
"(Burns) Hello Smithers, you're quite good at turning me on" - Smithers' computer
"(Gates) Hello Steve, you're quite good at turning *Windows NT GPF*" - Steve Balmer's computer
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
This makes me wonder regarding the status for System.Windows.Forms in Longhorn. Is System.Windows.Forms still the recommended GUI-framework in Longhorn? Is the release of its replacement post-poned?
It's an interesting problem for Microsoft. There was a reason to switch to OS X over the classic MacOS, but the transition from Windows XP/2000 to Longhorn will seem entirely superfluous. Most of the changes will be under the hood, like the new .NET foundation which will also add performance overhead.
.NET, how many major developers are actually going to write managed code? Adobe's not going to rewrite Photoshop. Macromedia's not going to rewrite Dreamweaver. id isn't going to be releasing .NET games any time soon. So Microsoft will have to keep supporting Win32 indefinitely anyway. .NET will take charge in the market that Visual Basic currently does, because that's what C# is geared toward.
.NET runtime also already ships for Windows XP.
The interface, called "Aero Glass" (I don't supposed that means it will have shiny highlights on the tops of the widgets, does it? Been there, done that), is supposed to be full 3D-accelerated DirectX visuals. The problem is that a lot of old PCs won't even be able to run it and will end up using the lower visual tier of Longhorn, which is supposed to look more like today's Windows, which again makes you wonder what would be the advantage in upgrading.
Microsoft waited too long. Windows XP has saturated and stabilized in the market, and everyone has grown quite comfortable with it despite major security issues. As for
The only real thing I was looking forward to in Longhorn was Avalon and WinFS. WinFS won't ship with Longhorn and Apple has already beaten it to the punch with Spotlight, and Avalon and Indigo will be released as backports for both Windows XP and Windows Server 2003. In addition, the
What exactly does Longhorn offer other than a 3D accelerated interface and a big information bar on the side (I guess it's Microsoft's answer to the Dock or something)? I've been following Longhorn for a while, and its advantages have slowly diminished, and now I'm honestly much less interested.
The thing I thought was most revolutionary about longhorn was the database type file system. I think more and more people are seeing the advantages of tags over folders. You'd think someone could build a database style, tagged filesystem in some sort of linux deal. How hard would it be?
Anyway, the point of Longhorn is, with Indigo and Avalon, to make it easier to develop cool new stuff. Then more cool new stuff gets written for Windows, and so more people buy Windows.
Want to pre-empt Longhorn? Make some slick open-source developer tools for XML-based user interfaces (can't remember the X-acronym at the moment - XUL or XAML or some such) and web services. Win over the developers. Let them develop the cool new stuff on Linux.
The users will follow if the new stuff is cool enough. At least, that's been Microsoft's game plan for a long time now, and it's worked pretty well for them...
Once Longhorn comes out, Microsoft will again be so far ahead, it won't be easy, or even possible, for enthusiasts to catch up.
.NET code on your machine.
Hi Mr. Troll...have some food:
1. The entire OS will be accessible through a set of managed APIs. This makes coding 10 times easier and faster, and raises productivity to unprecedented levels. This also makes buffer overflows and some other security issues a thing of the past.
Good idea...let's call them shared libraries. They can handle all the functions that a modern program will need. We'll put them in a central location, like a "lib" folder, and then release their header files in a "devel" (short for developer) package. This means that any program writer will be able to see exactly what functions he needs to use. We'll also put all our trust in the security of one developer, and forget security as our responsibility.
2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine.... What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.
That's right...those damn communists will have to develop SVG Icons to compete.
3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.
Because we all know that a new UI is far more important than stability, performance, security, ease of use, scalability, compatibility, ease of development, and speed of patch releases...right? Then again, maybe changing to a 3d environment will make it easier for new users, after all, computers haven't been using 2d interfaces for the last 20-some years, right?
Your webapps will actually run sandboxed
Just like, oh, I don't know...Java? Wait... Kind of like applets, but the entire webapp will be built out of them.... oh...I get it, just like a whole Java application. Got it. Silly me, I thought Java was only for applets...
Just think about the possibilities there.Wait! I've heard this before... the possibility is ActiveX...seamless integration of pr0n toolbars^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H client and server, huh?
web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade).
Standard...oh yeah, like TCP/IP, SSL, SSH, Telnet, UDP, and all those other standards...(too many to list)
The most important thing is, all of this will be available to Windows users out of the box, without any tweaking/recompiling/downloading dependencies
Yeah...clicking the icon for Synaptic was getting to be a pain in the ass. I also got pretty tired of having several gigs worth of...well, all the programs I need...included on the installation disks.
Developers will be able to rely on this stuff when building next-gen apps and be reasonably sure that if a user runs Longhorn, the app will run there.
Yeah, let's see how many DLL's we can cram into the system32 folder, eh? Until DLL's are gone (ahem...notafuckingchanceinhell...ahem), there will still be DLL hell.
It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks.
Are you out of your fucking mind? MS copied Fisher-Price, not vice versa...
It's time to start copying Longhorn.
You know, you're right...let's copy a product that has to have a final specifications sheet, or even a concrete release date. Even better, let's copy our own innovations.
Now that the troll's full, I may as well poke it a bit:
That was by far one of the most uneducated, poorly cocnceived fanboy responses that I have ever read. Even people like Dvorak and Thurrot take more time to look at the status quo before proclaiming innovation.
Cheers,
-maztuh
The real litigious bastards...
It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.
should be modified to It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying OS X. Unfortunately, nobody from KDE or Gnome seems to realize this.
For one thing, somebody has to figure out a way to start doing graphics on the GPU with vanilla X11 pretty soon -- Tiger is going to make everything else look like mud this year already, and when Windows figures out that trick in 2006 or 2007 or whenever, BSD and Linux will just about be the only ugly kids left on the block. This might not matter for servers etc, but on the desktop, looks count.
I won't debate what is a "most important book". What criteria? etc.
Regardless, 1984 is one of the most influental books of the last century.
Too many people point to 1984 as an illustration of the insidiousness of totalitarianism, when what they completely miss is the fact that 1984 is a book about the insidious of totalitarianism. It takes the insidiousness of totalitarianism as a given. The book doesn't contain a discussion about whether the slope is slippery or not; it just assumes that the slope is slippery and tells a story based on that premise.
I believe you're missing the point of narrative. Narrative is not a discourse on a topic with cites. It builds upon common culture to illustrate a given belivable situation, by way of story evolution.
That you call it a failing that Blair (Orwell) failed to elucidate paths to totalitarianism, with references, op cit. is to ignore not only the prima face evident truth of what he was talking about, but also the context in which he was saying it, and the fact that a narrative can speak on several levels. I don't deny that a lot of people misuse the text, but you're wrong to hold it to a different standard than the one for which it was intended.
A novel is not a historical document, except, sometimes, after the fact.
Somebody who reads 1984 and thinks that he then has something insightful to say about language or society is like somebody who reads Beat to Quarters and thinks that he then can sail a tall ship around Cape Horn.
To put this in a contextually useful analogy, this statement reads like someone who read "Linux for Dummies" and then wrote an oped about the stupidity of the Open Source movement, 'cause it doesn't take into account the cost curves of extant proprietary development, analyse job losses in SV due to cyclic developments, or forcast potential problems in legal doctrine if OS takes off..
--AC, only because of the machine I'm on; I'm 'abulafia' hereabouts.
Once Longhorn comes out, Microsoft will again be so far ahead, it won't be easy, or even possible, for enthusiasts to catch up. Right now they're essentially standing still. They've put all their efforts into LH, there's nothing going on with XP except for service packs/bugfixes. Now is the perfect time to release a really polished Linux desktop that would be simple to setup and use.
... You and LongHorn are pretty late I must say.
.NET code on your machine. Kind of like applets, but the entire webapp will be built out of them. Just think about the possibilities there.
...
I hope MS will be far ahead of WinXP with LH, because the polished Linux desktops were released in 2001 (the time I switched, as WinXP had become unusable when compared to a Gnome or KDE desktop), and are gradually improving ever since.
When Longhorn comes out, Microsoft, and folks who develop for Windows, will surge ahead REALLY fast.
Here's why:
1. The entire OS will be accessible through a set of managed APIs. This makes coding 10 times easier and faster, and raises productivity to unprecedented levels. This also makes buffer overflows and some other security issues a thing of the past.
No clue wishful thinking. I'm not impressed. The Windows architecture is flawed already. No amount of code can fix it. Redesigning Windows (for multiuser and for the internet) would be far better.
2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine. Two years from Longhorn release people will be buying 200+ DPI displays because things look a lot better on them. What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.
Actually, I started using beautiful scalable (SVG) icons and fonts at worst in 2002 on my Gnome desktop
So, on my 100 dpi 22" monitor (in 1600x1200), the desktop is pretty sharp and the icons and fonts are like they should be, even if I change resolution. I bet it will be the same with 200+ dpi monitors.
3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.
Do you mean MS actually invented something ? That will not be a ripoff of Mac OS X, Linux or other desktops ? Now I'm impressed.
I've seen nothing of the kind till now, but I suppose it is secret.
4. Seamless integration of client and server side (that's what XAML is all about, IMHO). Your webapps will actually run sandboxed
I'm a user, I have no need for your webapps. And client and server should not be integrated either, that is nonsense. The server should run the app, not me, so I do not need anything sandboxed. I think of the possibilities for a lot of virus yes.
5. Reliable Web Services - Indigo, web services that don't suck. More importantly, web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade). And you can bet your ass they will upgrade, just like a couple of years after W95 was released almost everyone ran W95.
I fail to understand how you can talk about "web service protocol". What is that, isn't it HTTP ? It is an open protocol, like they all should be on the internet. The internet is not MSN you know, that is a world for everyone, not just for Windows users.
The most important thing is, all of this will be available to Windows users out of the box, without any tweaking/recompiling/downloading dependencies. That's where the real strength of this all is. Developers will be able to rely on this stuff when building next-gen apps and be reasonably sure that if a user runs Longhorn, the app will run there.
Your description looks like what is already present in Windows now : ActiveX, Direct X,
I see no improvement. Will it all be open ? That would be an improvement.
It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.
Who is copying Windows XP or