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ChoicePoint Identity Theft Fallout Widens

dstates writes "A unique California law forced ChoicePoint to reveal that a break-in had compromised accounts revealing personal information on 40,000 southern californians and leading to more than 750 cases of identity theft. The company initially denied that the break-in compromised consumers outside of California, but CNN is now reporting that 110,000 accounts nationally have been compromised. 'The irony appears to be that ChoicePoint has not done its own due diligence in verifying the identities of those 'businesses' that apply to be customers,' said Beth Givens, director of the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse. 'They're not doing the very thing they claim their service enables their customers to achieve.'"

60 of 297 comments (clear)

  1. Who Goes There? by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Funny
    'The irony appears to be that ChoicePoint has not done its own due diligence in verifying the identities of those 'businesses' that apply to be customers,' said Beth Givens

    ChoicePoint: "Who goes there?"
    Voice: "Thurston Howell III"
    ChoicePoint: "A likely story!"
    Voice: "Sherlock Holmes"
    ChoicePoint: "We weren't born yesterday!"
    Voice: "Landshark"
    ChoicePoint: "That's better, here's 35,000 files, let us know if you need anymore."

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  2. SHUT THEM DOWN by centipetalforce · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Serirously- this isn't paperclips these people are selling ITS YOUR PERSONAL DATA. They need to be closed, and whoever responsible needs to go to jail- and everyone involved in covering up the crime deserves to live in poverty for the rest of their fucking lives.

    1. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IANAL, but I am a Security Consultant. Considering the financial and healthcare data, there are probably SERIOUS violations of GLBA and HIPAA. Let's look for some SOX violations, and get jail-time for the CEO!

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    2. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by shanen · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Serirously- this isn't paperclips these people are selling ITS YOUR PERSONAL DATA. They need to be closed, and whoever responsible needs to go to jail- and everyone involved in covering up the crime deserves to live in poverty for the rest of their fucking lives.
      Nice thought, but Dubya would pardon them. After all, this is the same company that put him in the White House in the first place. Or have you forgotten that he claims to have won by 500 votes while ChoicePoint helped disenfranchise thousands of primarily Democratic voters.

      (Of course, Dubya's margin was so slim that *LOT'S* of groups can claim discredit for slipping him into the White House. Irregardless of the various culprits, we're all suffering for it now.)

      Anyway, as I noted in the earlier thread on this topic, I think we need to establish the principle that *YOU* own the personal data about *YOU*, and no one can use it or sell it without *YOUR* permission. This is actually a logical implication of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. However, to give it teeth, I think we also need to appeal to "Possession is nine points of the law", and *YOU* should be able to store your own data on *YOUR* own computer. Anyone wants to see it, they ask for your permission (or prove they deserve a search warrant).

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    3. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by nizo · · Score: 4, Funny
      How long until we don't use words anymore, but instead only use acronyms?

      IANAL: I am not a lawyer (whew got one of them at least)
      GLBA: Gay/Lesbian/Bi Association??(I don't want to know how they get violated) :-)
      HIPAA: Some kind of privacy thing relating to medical records (can't recall exactly what it stands for) Health Information Privacy something something
      SOX: I think Linux uses this to play sound files
      CEO: Criminal Executive Office or something like that, often known as "head scapegoat" (and often rightly so)

      I am not picking on you, just trying to provide some late Friday humor for everyone waiting to escape at 5pm.

    4. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What are you telling us for? Why aren't you writing your senators instead?

      Seriously- all of you who have been making this same complaint on Slashdot- have you also been complaining to your elected representatives? (I haven't, but I have an excuse- I live in the "People's Republic of California". No letter from ChoicePoint in my mailbox yet!)

      This is really amazingly egregious that they shouldn't be required by law to contact you if they realize they sold your mother's maiden name to mobsters. I can't believe how shit happens in the rest of the country sometimes.

    5. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by s74n13y · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So a unique California law, under their misnamed "deregulation" system, caused them to open their books, when they simply feel that 110,000 to 350,000 consumers are ignorant. They were entrusted with data security, was it worth it? Anyway, how many more consumers' personal data was thoroughly scrutinized by these thieves? This is what you got when you let ex-Governor Davis exercise his own self interest, the economy of California and rolling blackouts leading to a re-statement of Enron's books. When will they get honest and start acknowledging that they FAILED US? I get the distinct impression that a break-in compromised the data and they're not done. It's dog food alright, meaning these executives ought to be going to JAIL. They act like they weren't under any legal obligation, rather like outright deception. The irony appears to achieve its own success in some sort of narcissistic manner.

      On the ChoicePoint web site, the only reason we found other than stated above was a unique California system of overcharging, revealing personal information to anyone outside of California, maybe not far from the other 110,000 people who will receive notice of their fleecing soon. ChoicePoint said Tuesday it sent warning letters to track down serial killers stored behind a cloak of secrecy. This is what you get when Privacy Rights Clearinghouse sells to the highest bidder. These kinds of California laws hand their 35 million consumers over to ignorance. Beth Givens, director of one of those 'businesses seeking to gain access to people outside of California' had higher standards. I guess not. Perhaps they will send an additional notification to her lawyer informing that they have her system-gaming scam in an investigation.

      Make no mistake, state of California FAILED US. I get the distinct impression that ChoicePoint said it would jeopardize the tools they build. So does ChoicePoint use these tools they build? So does ChoicePoint use their customers' information for their own gain? ChoicePoint is a bunch of criminals posing as a legitimate business seeking to gain access to personal information so as to be a provider for identity theft criminals.

      Tell me one personal information provider who is not in some way guilty of identity stolen. All 50 states.

    6. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by vinn01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      .. and no company will ever have a security breach again.

      If you make the penalty for security breaches so severe, at the very first sign of a breach, a company will wipe all trace of it and pretend that nothing ever happened.

      A lot of companies already do this for the sake of "saving face" in the marketplace. No company wants it to be widely known that they don't know how to secure sensitive data.

      I bet that ChoicePoint was caught red-handed, otherwise we would not be hearing (and complaining) about this.

    7. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by Stiletto · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Seriously- Nothing is going to happen to the CEO of ChoicePoint, or anyone else in charge. Worst that'll happen is a few execs are pushed out with multi-million dollar golden parachutes. They'll be retiring with their mansions and yachts, and we, the little people will be fired, homeless, or in jail because our credit report and background check says we're deadbeats and wanted criminals.

      I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!

    8. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by SpacePunk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not that there was a 'security breach' It's that they actively lied to cover up their stupidity. If you listen to CNN and other news outlets the loss of information was because of 'hackers'. Not because they just gave out information willy-nilly to anyone who said they were a business. They also only warned only California residents that the information was 'stolen' (not sold as it was), and did not make the announcement that the scope of the information they gave out covers literally all 50 states, territories, and possessions.

      They should be shut down. Immediatly, and with extreme prejudice should there be any resistance.

    9. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by demachina · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nice sentiment but not very realistic. If you close down ChoicePoint you would pretty much have to go after Equifax, Experian(formerly TRW), and Trans Union. In case you don't know the name these are America's big three credit bureaus, where Choicpoint is more ID, criminal record, and financial records rolled in to one. It appears pretty much anyone can form a corporation and start collecting your personal data, thats what all four of these companies did.

      Why do they exist, because other corporations want and need the data they have on you and will pay for it, that includes potential employers and landlords, banks, car dealers, real estate brokers, etc. etc.

      You can't stop all this information tracking without eviscerating employment screening, loans, credit cards, etc. I'd be all for it personally but there are trillions of dollars of big business that rely on these companies and they would scream bloody murder if you tried to shut them all down.

      Choicepoint in particular probably experienced a boom after 9/11. The rampant paranoia that ensued multiplied by an order of magnitude the number of employment ID and criminal background checks employers conduct on prospective employees. Chances are if you are applying for a job with a company of any size their HR department is getting a COMPLETE run down on you form Choicepoint or someone like them, every criminal offense, how good you are at paying your bills, bankruptcies, loan history etc. Chances are they know every gory detail of your entire life, before you get an offer letter.

      In case you didn't know Choicepoint sucks up every court document in every state so they probably have a more detailed criminal history on everyone than state or federal governments.

      Its not entirely clear what the benefit is of having 3 different agencies scoring your credit plus Choicepoint, it just increases the likelihood of data compromise, and if there is an error in your credit report you pretty much have to correct it in all 3 places at your expense. But again any company can form to do this and all they have to do is collect data, market themselves and gain momentum where enough people use their service and you can have 4 or 10 agencies like this.

      There is some regulation of credit bureaus, though I'm not sure Choicepoint falls under it, they should.

      You could propose that only the Federal government should hold all this data but it doesn't really help because this whole system is predicated on allowing pretty much any business who wants it to request this information about you before they hire you or give you credit.

      You in fact have no privacy and haven't had for a while. Until the Federal government converts your Social Security number to a true encrypted digital signature with some minimal security, i.e. a password only you know to validate its yours, EVERYONE is a sitting duck for identity theft in the network era.

      --
      @de_machina
    10. Re:SHUT THEM DOWN by cheezedawg · · Score: 2, Informative

      After all, this is the same company that put him in the White House in the first place. Or have you forgotten that he claims to have won by 500 votes while ChoicePoint helped disenfranchise thousands of primarily Democratic voters.

      Bunk. ChoicePoint (actually, Database Technologies, which was later bought by ChoicePoint) was contracted to generate the felon list that was mandated by a new 1998 Florida law, and this law was designed to compensate for an imperfect list. It clearly placed the burdon of verifying the names on the individual county election supervisors, and over half of them didn't even use the list at all.

      The end result? When the USCCR held hearings, they were unable to find a single person that was actually disenfranchised because of the felon list.

      If somebody was wrongly identified as a felon and wrongly prevented from voting because of that (and this is a big "if"), the blame lies solely with the election supervisor of the county that he/she lives in.

      --
      "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
  3. Re:Ouch by pbranes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, funny that you mention that. What computer cracker goes into a network and *only* steals the data for 1 state?? No one! Choicepoint was flat out lieing and being unfair to the consumer by stating that only California was affected. It was only when the heat was turned on them by the news media & the internet bloggers that they admitted that more people were affected & would be notified.

  4. Trust us! by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How does someone determine if Choicepoint had data on them?

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:Trust us! by JohnGrahamCumming · · Score: 4, Funny

      Start a fake company, register with ChoicePoint and look yourself up!

      John.

    2. Re:Trust us! by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The irony being that if you called checkpoint or even showed up at their door with documents proving that you were who you said you were, they probably wouldn't show you the data they've got stored on you.

      Not to mention the fact if they have erroneous data in their databases, you probably never get it corrected.

      --
      Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
  5. Initial denial by SafteyMan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What really upsets me is how they originally denied that anyone outside of California had their informaion comprimised.

  6. They're a company..... by darkonc · · Score: 3, Insightful
    'They're not doing the very thing they claim their service enables their customers to achieve.'"

    If they did that, it would cost them business. That would cost them profit. They're a company. Next question?

    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
    1. Re:They're a company..... by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If they go almost-bankrupt as a result of the class-action suit, it might cause them to be more careful about who they allow to do searches. Truth of the matter is that the only reason we even know the scale of this is that California had a left-wing commie customer notification law on the books, otherwise they would have probably just sent out notices to thousand of the most seriously affected and hoped that nobody noticed a larger pattern.

      As it is, even a class-action suit might not cost them as much as they gain by allowing anybody and their dog to make a query. I've actually been quietly expecting this sort of event for years.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  7. +750 in California alone! by thinkliberty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "leading to more than 750 cases of identity theft." I wonder how many total cases of identity theft this incident will cause.

    The only way to know is to notify all people that had their identity stolen. All 50 states need to have a ID theft law like California.

  8. Eat Your Own Dog Food by PatientZero · · Score: 2, Insightful
    We developers are fond of saying that we eat our own dog food, meaning that we use the tools be build. So does ChoicePoint use their own service, implying their service is suboptimal, or do they simply feel that our data security isn't worth it?

    Either way, how many more times do things like this need to occur before people will become widely convinced that companies such as these need to be more thoroughly scrutinized?

    --
    Freedom to fear. Freedom from thought. Freedom to kill.
    I guess the War on Terror really is about freedom!
  9. What you get by mboverload · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is what you get when consumer information is obtained and stored behind a cloak of secrecy. This is what you get when privacy laws are not enforced or valued. This is what you get when the standard consumer is ignorant and apathetic to the importance of person information.

    1. Re:What you get by Anonymous+Cow+herd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Er, actually, the very same Freedom of Information Act that grants you the right to look at the records that the government keeps about YOU also grants ChoicePoint the right to obtain those self same records. See here.

      --
      Ita erat quando hic adveni.
  10. denied? by fireduck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The company initially denied that the break-in compromised consumers outside of California"

    Did they actually deny that no one outside of California was compromised, or was it just that they weren't legally obligated to inform anyone outside of the state? From Monday's story, I got the distinct impression that it was the latter (i.e., no legal obligation), rather than outright deception. Regardless, it's still a really crappy thing to have happened.

    (on a personal note, given that the break-in happened months ago, and i just got my yearly free credit reports from the 3 agencies and didn't see anything suspicious, I guess I'm a lucky SoCalifornian...)

  11. ChoicePoint's canned customer service response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I emailed Choicepoint demanding an explanation. here is the response:

    From: CorpMktg.Communications@choicepoint.com

    ChoicePoint was recently a victim of organized fraud, and we understand
    this news may be cause for concern.

    A very small number of criminals posed as legitimate companies in order to
    gain access to personal information about consumers. When the fraud was
    discovered, access to information was immediately discontinued and the
    authorities were notified.

    ChoicePoint has acted quickly to address the circumstances that led to the
    unauthorized access, and we are committed to our core principles of working
    to create a safer, more secure society through the responsible use of
    information while ensuring the protection of personal privacy.

    We are sending letters to affected consumers whose information may have
    been accessed. If you do not receive a letter from us, you have not been
    affected.

    If you have not received a letter but are still concerned, here are some
    actions you can take to help protect yourself from misuse of information.

    If you think you have been the victim of identity theft, you should place a
    fraud alert on your credit report by contacting any one of the three credit
    bureaus listed below. As soon as one credit bureau confirms your fraud
    alert, the other two bureaus will automatically be notified to place fraud
    alerts on your credit report, and all three reports will be sent to you
    free of charge.

    Equifax
    800-525-6285
    P.O. Box 740241
    Atlanta, GA 30374-0241
    www.equifax.com

    Experian
    888-397-3742
    P.O. Box 9532
    Allen, TX 75013
    www.experian.com

    TransUnion - Fraud Victim Assistance Division
    800-680-7289
    P.O. Box 6790
    Fullerton, CA 92864-6790
    www.transunion.com

    When you receive your credit reports, review them carefully. Look for
    inquiries you did not initiate, accounts you did not open, and unexplained
    debts on the accounts you did open. If there are accounts or charges you
    did not authorize, immediately notify the credit bureau by telephone and in
    writing.

    You should also confirm that information such as your Social Security
    number, address(es), first and last names, middle initial and employers are
    correct. Errors in this information are often the warning signs of identity
    theft, although some inaccuracies may be due to simple mistakes. If you
    discover inaccuracies in your report, you should also notify the credit
    bureau as soon as possible so the information can be investigated.

    You should continue to check your credit reports frequently for the next
    year to make sure no new fraudulent activity has occurred.

    Finally, if you have discovered errors or suspicious activity on your
    credit report, you should consider immediately contacting any credit card
    companies with whom you have an account and inform them about the activity.
    You should make sure they have your correct information on file and that
    any changes to the account were made by you.

    If you would like to learn more about your consumer information, you may
    visit our consumer site at www.choicetrust.com.

    Thank you,
    ChoicePoint Corporate Marketing

  12. Importance by mboverload · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Tell me one person who would be against putting these executives in JAIL. They were entrusted with data on almost every human being in the United States and they FAILED US. Get the stake, timbers, gasoline, and matches. Heaven knows I am ready for blood.

  13. Manifest Destiny by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These kinds of California "sunshine" laws are also the only reason we found out about Enron before it took the whole US economy, not just Houston, down with it. Enron was required by California law, under their misnamed "deregulation" system, to open its books, because it was supplying a lot of energy to Californians. Enron refused, claiming that, as a Texas company, it was not under California jurisdiction. That was when Governor Davis famously asked the Federal Department of Energy to step in, to resolve this interstate conflict. The DOE refused to referee, and Davis eventually found other means to force open Enron's books. When they were reviewed, not only was $8B in California overcharges revealed, but the entire network of Enron debt-laundering was exposed. As well as the rest of their system-gaming that took them out.

    California is far from perfect. But their 35M consumers are unusually well protected by laws in the public interest. The economy of California scale forces car makers around the country, and around the world, to comply with their higher standards. Perhaps we will see California's own self interest protect us from other scams like these, as we all get closer to the Golden State.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  14. Choice quotes... by GillBates0 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ChoicePoint maintains personal profiles of nearly every U.S. consumer, which it sells to employers, landlords, marketing companies and about 35 U.S. government agencies.

    I love the way marketing companies have more access to my personal information than I do. Moreover, they're among the "legitimate" businesses who the company claims it sells information to -- any dick and harry spammer joint can be called a "marketing company". In other words, if you have enough money to pour down their gullet, you have the information.

    The company says its records enable law enforcers to track down serial killers and have helped find 822 missing children.

    Yeah, since they help children, they cannot be an irresponsible company.

    "The topic of the responsible use of information is a vital one to our society ... we support a national debate on this very topic," ChoicePoint President Doug Curling said.

    Classic tangential marketspeak response from the president.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  15. Simple! by serutan · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just wait for a letter from a law firm informing you that you are a member of the class action suit against ChoicePoint.

    optional additional steps:
    2. Do nothing.
    3. Profit!!!

    1. Re:Simple! by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 3, Funny

      ust wait for a letter from a law firm informing you that you are a member of the class action suit against ChoicePoint.

      optional additional steps:
      2. Do nothing.
      3. Profit!!!


      Profit??? You'd get a coupon for 20% off your next Choicepoint break-in!

    2. Re:Simple! by cgleba · · Score: 3, Informative

      Don't worry. . .there is new legislation on the president's desk right now that will make it "virtually impossible now to get a nationwide class-action suit off the ground." -- The Economist

  16. Lucky? by PornMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, I just got your credit report from the 3 agencies, and I feel obliged to tell you that with an average FICO score of 559, you probably shouldn't be calling yourself lucky.

  17. Stock doing ok? by D3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looks like their stock is still doing ok. Although that could change come Monday. Graph

    --
    Do really dense people warp space more than others?
  18. Checkpoint Client Verification by DAldredge · · Score: 4, Funny

    Checkpoint Client Verification = Did the check clear? Is yes then WELCOME ABOARD!

  19. How to find out what they know about you by doublem · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, you can receive a copy of your profile.

    This page on the ChoicePoint web site points to Choicetrust. (Insert joke about the mane choice here)

    From the Choicepoint web site:

    FACT Act Compliance

    The Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act (FACT Act) was enacted in 2003 and amends the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), a federal law that regulates, in part, who is permitted to access your consumer report information and how it can be used. The FACT Act entitles consumers to obtain one free copy of his/her consumer file from certain consumer reporting agencies during each 12-month period.

    ChoicePoint has three separate companies that maintain consumer files that are subject to the free disclosure requirement: C.L.U.E. Inc. maintains information on insurance claims histories, ChoicePoint WorkPlace Solutions Inc. maintains employment history information, and Resident Data Inc. maintains tenant history information. Each of these companies designed an easy process for consumers to request their free file disclosure.

    Please note that a consumer file does not necessarily exist for you with any one of the three companies. For example, if you have not filed a claim with your auto or home insurance company during the last five years, we will not have a report on you. If you have not applied for employment with a customer that we serve, we likely will not have an employment history report on you. If you have not submitted a residential lease application with a customer that we serve, we will likely not have a tenant history report on you.
    To request copies of your claims history report, visit www.ChoiceTrust.com or call 1-866-312-8076.

    To request a copy of your employment history report, call 1-866-312-8075.

    To request a copy of your tenant history report, call 1-877-448-5732.

    If you would prefer to send your request by mail, please send your name and address to the appropriate address below. A report request form will be sent to you to complete and return.

    For claims history reports:

    ChoicePoint Consumer Disclosure Center
    P.O. Box 105295
    Atlanta, GA 30348

    For employment history reports:

    ChoicePoint WorkPlace Solutions Consumer Disclosure Center
    P.O. Box 105292
    Atlanta, GA 30348

    For tenant history reports:

    Resident Data Consumer Disclosure Center
    P.O. Box 850126
    Richardson, TX 75085-0126

    --
    "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    1. Re:How to find out what they know about you by shanen · · Score: 2, Informative
      Well, I tried to go through the process for the free report, but they refused to provide anything. It actually felt more like I was participating in a phishing scam with an especially impressive click-through-and-we-own-your-firstborn-child legal agreement.

      Actually, I think the real explanation is that they have a bunch of lawyers on their side, and they are looking very carefully at every loophole and possible reason to avoid telling you anything. Sure, legally speaking, they have to provide the information, but they don't have to make it easy. How many people are going to keep jumping through the hurdles?

      Too many? No problem! Just add a few more hurdles.

      I may try again later, but I think the situation is that I have used two of my attempts, and if I fail the third time, then I have to wait three days before trying again.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    2. Re:How to find out what they know about you by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 3, Insightful


      > Please note that a consumer file does not necessarily exist for you with any one of the three companies.

      But it certainly will AFTER you have made a request to see their records, if any, on you.

      There is something inherently broken about having to give up your personal information to the very companies who abuse it in order to find out if they are abusing it.

      As a minimum, I think the FACT Act should be modified to prevent the companies from recording or otherwise using any of the information you provide when requesting your own records. As a better solution, I think there needs to be an independent third party whose sole purpose is to give consumers their own files from all the tracking agencies and which has very strongly enforced data-privacy policies.

  20. Thanks to California by SilentJ_PDX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm an Oregonian... so you know it takes a lot for me to say anything nice about California but...

    I just want to thank California for their identity fraud laws that force businesses to disclose when an unauthorized person has accessed records illegally. If it weren't for that, we probably wouldn't know anything about this.

  21. 35M consumers by serutan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe this is nitpicking, but could we please go back to saying "citizens" instead of "consumers?" Because consumers take whatever crap you give them. Citizens don't.

    1. Re:35M consumers by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wish we were all crap-rejecting citizens. But the fact is that these laws protect consumers, who corporations prize, not simply citizens, who corporations ignore. They're "consumer protection laws". The corporate execs like Ken Lay and his California office minions aren't as well protected by these laws, because they're citizens, not consumers. That's how we've got a fighting chance.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  22. Who the bloody hell is ChoicePoint? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 2
    I've never heard of them before this story broke, I don't know anyone who's heard of them, so how did they end up with my credit card# and SS# which is now compromised?

    And yes, I live in California and yes I've RTFA, this is just an angry response not a true question.

    1. Re:Who the bloody hell is ChoicePoint? by tuxette · · Score: 2, Informative
      I am mad about it too, and feel we should have a law that limits who gets to store *our* data, and who gets to request it.

      Unfortunately, this is very unlikely to happen in the United States.

      While doing research for my graduate thesis on, among other things, privacy law, I found several quotes from high-ranking US politicians where they explicitly stated that they believed that US citizens did not have the right to ownership of their own personal data. Quite a bad stat if Americans wish to have personal data protection laws similar to those in Europe.

      --
      People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
  23. Re:Hot Damn by marvin2k · · Score: 2, Funny

    Apparently 110,000 people already did.

  24. Needs a change of laws by bot · · Score: 2, Informative

    We need to have laws that changed that prevent private companies from collecting data, or requesting data on citizens unless the person concerned permits it. I know the credit scores are important yada, yada, but its our data, and we should own it. Companies that profit from our data should be required to take our permission to collect and distribute it.

    Any fellow californians interested in starting a initiative for this? Especially those who know how to go about it- I don't!

  25. Exactly by sterno · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They were reporting California because they had absolutely no choice in the matter because of legal requirements in California. It's a very good thing for all people who have information at Choicepoint that California has that law. Otherwise I have little doubt any of us would know about it.

    I do wonder if it would be beneficial to indentity thieves to expressly avoid stealing information about California residents to limit knowledge of their efforts. If those 100K people weren't notified by Choicepoint, it'd give them a lot more freedom to exploit that pile of information.

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  26. Read Between the Lines People! by darkonc · · Score: 5, Informative
    Nope. They never denied that there were non-Californians affected. All that they confirmed is that California law required them to inform the 35,000 affected CA residents. Given that CA represents about 10% of the US population, I took that to mean that there were about 300,000 affected US residnts.

    That they're announcing that they're 'only' informing 100,000 other US residents can be explained in any of the following ways:

    • The attacks were focused on CA residents, for some reason.
    • They have only identified 100,000 people this week, and there's another 3 weeks of work to do.
    • They are willfully underreporting the actual numbers and hoping that nobody will do the research to prove them wrong.
    • Given that the law doesn't require them to inform everybody who got hit, they're only informing those non CA residents who got hit the worst. 2/3 of the people who would have been informed under CA law will never know...
    The most interesting information is between the lines. Learn to read there more often. ("Diplomacy is the art of telling a lion 'Nice kitty kitty' while you search for a big rock. Media relations is doing for a company what a diplomat does for a country.")
    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  27. Class Action, Choicepoint victims? Think again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bush just signed a bill to curb class action lawsuits. link to full story below:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=512771

  28. Double Edged Sword by Mindmaniac · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Before condemning all of ChoicePoint look at all of the good things they have done like solving hundreds of rape cases, finding missing children, and doing the DNA tests of thousands of crimes. This incident is the result of one offices mistakes and I don't think it is representative of who they are as a whole. If someone wants information bad enough the'll get it. Look at how many times the CIA's website has been hacked into.

  29. We need anti financial stalking law by RNLockwood · · Score: 2, Informative

    California, at lesat, has stalking laws that makes it a criminal offense to follow another person around etc. Now we need laws that would make it illegal for companies to stalk, archive, or release personal financial records to third parties. In particular it should be be legal for any person or corporation, such as a bank, that reports financial matters about a person to the IRS to request or store social security numbers. The rest should be subject for severe penalties. I suppose that the companies would then just move off shore, thoug.

    We in Southern Califonia were advised that we should watch our credit reports for unusual activity to detect identity theft. That activity might be a request for a credit report from Honest John's Automobile sales in Texas. You can get a free credit report once a year from each credit agency - the rest you pay for. Great.

    --
    Nate
  30. Excellent Timing. by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Apparently 110,000 people already did.

    Meanwhile, in that Bastion of Truth, Justice and the Liberty, Washington DC, George W. Bush signs The Class Action Fairness Act of 2005

    <sarcasm>at least america is safe from gay weddings</sarcasm>

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Excellent Timing. by millennial · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, most larger companies have insurance that covers most, if not all, of the cost of the settlements from class-action suits. The companies who were big enough to afford this didn't suffer.

      By the way, what the hell was Bush thinking, restricting medical malpractice suits? When hundreds (if not thousands) of people die from medical goofs (surgical error, medicinal overdose/allergy, etc) each year, why would he possibly think it's a good thing to prevent them from suing the people who hurt them?

      --
      I am scientifically inaccurate.
  31. This Company is Corrupt by torrentami · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does anyone else realize that this is the same company that essentially handed over the 2000 election to George W. Bush? They are the ones who were hired by the florida voting commission to compare the data on federal criminals in the US with those in FL so that the FL federal criminals couldn't vote. Only they botched (on purpose?) it up completely and had a 5% accuracy rate resulting in thousands of voters (mostly black) getting turned away at the polls. Coincidentally (yeah, right) they were awarded a 60 million dollar data sorting job in Iraq once the war started. Funny, if they failed so miserably in FL why would you reward them with a bid in Iraq? This company is a joke.

    1. Re:This Company is Corrupt by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Here is a reference to an article on CNN about this. Also, check out the article in the St. Petersburg Times. Last, but not least, check out this article in The Guardian. My favorite quote from the last article: "The controversy [regarding the Bush DoJ paying ChoicePoint $11 million for names, addresses, occupations, DoB, passport numbers, "physical descriptions," tax records, and blood groups of Latin Americans] is not the first to engulf ChoicePoint." Nor, apparently, the last. This was written on May 5, 2003, over a year before this fiasco. How many chances should one company get before they're shut down?

      So yeah, this company scares the shit out of me, as does its parent, Equifax. Personal opinion o' me is that they all need to be immediately shut down. If you don't like YOUR personal information being given to anyone with a few bucks, PLEASE write to your government representatives and demand that something real be done NOW to protect our privacy!

      P. S. I live about 10 minutes away from Alpharetta, GA, where this company is located. I'm thinking of posting a link to where you can donate pitchforks and torches...

  32. You know what would be great by Aexia · · Score: 2, Informative

    is if someone looked up on Choicepoint, say, the CEO and other high-ranking executives and posted all their personal information here.

    The karmic justice of these clowns having to spend substantial time and money trying to protect their credit history and whatnot would be priceless.

    I'm not advocating that anyone should do this. I just think it would be justice because we're certainly not going to see any otherwise.

    1. Re:You know what would be great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      Given that ChoicePoint HQ is Alpharetta GA, and Derek V. Smith is the CEO, then it's quite possible that is your man. Also available via Google: So, if any um... parents of those 822 missing children recovered would like to call and, uh... thank them, well, there you go.
  33. Re:What benefit is it? by symbolic · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Must MILLIONS of US citizens have their personal information warehoused, prostituted, and subject to theft because of the comparatively few that it may have helped? This is one case where I believe the cost FAR outweighs the benefit.

  34. Re:Any lawyers care to comment? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2

    Of course: *I* was the person reading it. Totally interconnected conspiracy theories that span history and the globe are Rorschach tests. But I can tell when I don't need to read any more, except to skim for any new tropes. If it had mentioned the "faked Moon landings" early on, I probably wouldn't have even noticed the Rothschild canard.

    The real consparicies aren't nearly as convoluted. This one was posted in response to the Enron/California conspiracy, very recent (ongoing, under Schwarzenegger) and very close to home. And not nearly as apocalyptic or all-encompassing. It's probably the kind of self-destructive response our society has to manageable details about immediate threat conspiracies: start hauling in all the grand schemes, which turns off the group to the immediacy of the one under consideration. If we didn't react with such ADD to apparent conspiracies, we'd actually manage to expose and eliminate some, sometimes. Instead, we're cursed with innuendo and fools who prey on our worst weaknesses, a smokescreen for the criminals.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  35. Part of a Larger Problem by privacyprof · · Score: 4, Informative

    The ChoicePoint security fiasco is part of a larger problem -- the fact that companies dealing in personal data are not providing adequate security and that they are not well regulated. What makes matters worse is that ChoicePoint is increasingly supplying its information to the government, including the FBI and IRS.

    Back in December 2004, I along with the Electronic Privacy Information Center wrote a letter to the FTC arguing that the FTC should open an investigation of ChoicePoint: http://www.epic.org/privacy/choicepoint/fcraltr12. 16.04.html

    This letter might be of interest, as it explains the extensiveness of the data companies like ChoicePoint have and how it affects people's lives.

    I also argued in my new book, THE DIGITAL PERSON: TECHNOLOGY AND PRIVACY IN THE INFORMATION AGE, that identity theft and other privacy problems are caused not by technology but by irresponsible business practices. Everybody seems to be saying that in today's world of information technology, privacy is dead. The culprit is technology, and since it is foolish to believe that it can be stopped, there's little hope. I argue that this isn't the case. The culprit is government and business practices. There's a "digital person" that is a counterpart to people, not composed of flesh and blood but of bits and bytes of personal information gathered together in databases. The digital person is a representation of ourselves in the world of computers. But this is only part of the story. Increasingly, decisions about us are made by looking to our digital person. What happens to our digital person in the digital world is increasingly having effects in realspace to our real person. It is this problem that I explore, and I argue that the answer is regulating government and businesses - not technology. For those interested in learning more, I encourage you to read the FTC letter as well as my book. Here's the book's website: http://www.law.gwu.edu/facweb/dsolove/Solove-Digit al-Person.htm

  36. What does it take??? by Genda · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Attention all K-Mart Shoppers... that Bar-B-Q you are smelling is your collective butts in the fire.

    After undermining all sane separations between state, religion, and commerce, we find ourselve in what can only be described as a Nation of the Corporation, By the Corporation, and For the Corporation. You may now bow to your corporate masters.

    Our founding fathers saw government as a detestable necessity, so they wisely hamstrung it seven ways come Sunday, to keep it at bay. By giving corporations the same rights as "REAL FLESH AND BLOOD PEOPLE", without the same accontabilitiies or limitations, we created a monster. That monster was further allowed free access to influence and ultimately control our government. That brings us where we are today.

    A nation where your privacy is a farce, virtually nonexistent, while government and corporations alike enjoy almost complete opacity.

    Just last week a Federal Judge ruled in favor of the Governor of Maryland, in a suit involving reporters from the Sun Times being frozen out of press meetings. The Judge ruled that "the paper wrongly asserted a greater right to access to government officials than private citizens have. The right to publish news is expansive. However, the right does not carry with it the unrestrained right to gather information,"

    In short, A political leader, your elected representative, has the right to inform only those he likes or feels fit to inform. That and your primary organ of political enlightenment, the press, has no special right to garner information on your behalf. Add to that the recent $400,000 charge for FIA documents against the justice department, and the Gannon/Guckert debacle at the White House this week, and it's clear... the Government is hell bent on having it's citizens standing naked in the streets, stripped of every right to privacy and personal dignity, while they plot and practice "God only knows what" with complete impunity.

    The information disaster at ChoicePoint underlines the complete disregard that business and the Government have for the needs and the rights of every day citizens. Recent leaks suggest the final number of people exposed may exceed 400,000. If the government were working on your behalf, you would certainly see heads rolling immediately. However, I suspect you'll see none of that. The government is using these very companies to perform an endrun around the constitution, filling up government dosiers with information collected by these very companies, at the same time lucrative government contracts and multimillion dollar campaign funds are trading hands.

    We're at a critical time in history. Benito Mussolini defined fascism as "The Corporate State". Looking at the historical analysis of the last century, there's good reason why conservative and liberal law makers, educators in law and political science, and men of conscience around the world are calling the United States a fascist state. One of the certain casualties in such a government, are the rights and freedom of the individual. We still have a tremendous amount of infrastructure that protects us, and as bad as things are, no single person has yet amassed so much power that our government can be easily toppled. We're however in extreme danger. It'll take all our commitment, and every kind of contribution we as citizens can make, to bring our government back into it's proper place as an engine designed to promote the advancement of freedom, and justice. The alternative is too grim for words.

    Genda

  37. A word from a Choicepoint competitor ... by background_screener · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am the lead software arc for a competitor of Choicepoint's and, although I do feel this situation is extremely serious and understand why people are pissed off, find it odd anyone would demand that Choicepoint be closed, CEO jailed, etc...

    Regardless of the privacy issues, someone is going to store, manage and sell your information because it fills a valuable need in a whole host of circumstances. It is vitally important to verify someone's background prior to oferring a job or accepting volunteers. This isn't just job justification here. It goes without saying that you cannot allow convicted thieves to work a cash register job or child molesters to volunteer for the Cub Scouts (two things that are surprisingly common). Ah .. but wait, can't the organizations verify information themselves going through county and state govt records? The answer, even if you throw away the cost, time and materials and added personnel, is no, not completely. Here's why. When people apply for a job, volunteer or anything else that requires their past be investigated, there is always a spot for your current address and sometimes a spot for your previous addresses. It used to be that the company you are applying with took your word that you lived where you said you lived and they only investigated those counties, states, etc... If you committed a crime in a county you didn't want revealed, you simply didn't fill it out. Nowadays, regardless of what you put on the application, all of your previous addresses will be discovered and searched (depending how many back the searching company is willing to pay for -- usually 3 to 5). This is a very valuable service and out of reach for companies and organizations that don't specialize in this type of research. Speaking as a father and not a background researcher, I'm glad that the Girl Scouts (using Choicepoint) screen every volunteer in this fashion . I'd think you all would be too.

    Now bear in mind that I'm not defending Choicepoint. Hell, it would benefit me greatly if they were closed down. I do find their account setup procedures to be unbelievably remiss. We require DUNS number, plus corp bank account/history/references and articles of incorp (if applicable) and will not establish an account without them (even then account is ran in audit state for two months to ensure compliance). Keep in mind that if your organization wants run credit reports or motor vehicle searches, then there is an entire mountain of paperwork that must be completed, filed and approved by state DOT and the three credit companies. We also require client certs from integration clients and store no info in our db that isn't encrypted. I believe Choicepoint does the same. The way I understand that the info was compromised was that fake accounts were set up, a list of names was purchased from somewhere, and those names were then searched (either credit report or skip trace or some other identifying report) to obtain the information. Choicepoint's failure lay in social engineering and poor account verification practices.

    What it comes down to is, someone is going to keep and store your information. Would you rather it was the govt with its track record of managing security and accuracy or private industry? Me, I'll take private industry.

    Alex