Slashdot Mirror
Ready or Not, Here comes Windows XP SP2
TheViffer writes "Beginning April 12, 2005 Microsoft will remove all temporary blocking of Windows XP SP2 by automatic update and Windows update which it has granted to those organizations that requested it. So unless you run Software Update Service (SUS), chances are you will get a mix of SP1 and SP2 running at the same time. Let's just hope you have these programs that are known to experience a loss of functionality when they run on a Windows XP Service Pack 2-based computer and these programs that seem to stop working after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2 patched, upgraded, or removed. Might be a good time for help desk personal to pencil in a week (or two) of vacation."
That nearly all the programs on that list are very old, or already have updates for SP2. Hey what the hell, it's Microsof so lets bash them anyways. Sp2 does a LOT of good things for the average Joe in protecting him from his own stupidity.
They've had plenty of time to complete any migration. The application issues have been known for enough time, that if this is still an issue, they've been slacking off for too long.
I know that it breaks some programs and has caused some people problems, but the alternative of ridiculously insecure Windows boxes running rampant is worse.
I've been running Windows XP SP2 on all of my computers (which admittedly is a small population of 3) with no problems. The built-in popup blocker is more rigorous than anything else I've seen and itself breaks many things (most amusingly Outlook Access for Web), but for the most part is plays fairly nice.
I'm a big tall mofo.
we have a list we can refer to. So many times in the past it was just a "try it and see" situation.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
In my humble opinion, this is a good thing. I run a decent sized IT shop, and I feel that not upgrading to SP2 is akin to connecting your computer/network to the internet without a firewall.
I'm going to upgrade XP now.... ummm....
Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
What does SP2 seriously add to the corporate desktop? Admittedly I haven't been in charge of windows desktops since Win2K, but I can't immediately see any advantage. Only support nightmares concerning the builtin firewall. Is a personal firewall really needed on every secretary's desk? I would hope not... they're not supposed to run any unauthorized services other than those required for remote control/remote software deployment.
Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
How many of those programs in the list are either old versions, have been updated for awhile now, or can be fixed by just disabling windows firewall?
I bet the majority of them.
I'm still waiting for a slashdot post to strike fear into the hearts of everyone about the end of the world being near.
I am looking for a SWM that can keep his call times down to 5 minutes.
Ah, so you'll be enjoying the recent failures with 10.3.8 instead then? Just as I'm 'enjoying' my dual G5's vastly increased fan activity after installing the update? I particularly appreciate Apple's lack of ability to automatically roll the update back...
I much prefer the OS X environment, but I don't really blame Microsoft for the XP 2 failtures. A big OS patch is a big OS patch, problems can occur on any system and it's extremely likely that patches to various apps will be needed along the way.
Cheers,
Ian
Might be a good time for help desk personal to pencil in a week (or two) of vacation.
Give it up people. I run at least a half dozen of the applications on those lists on a few XP machines with SP2, and have had exactly 0 problems.
When will the "bashing Microsoft makes me feel good" trend end?
Help me take back Slashdot. When did 'News for Nerds' become 'FUD and Conspiracy Theories for Extremist Nutjobs'?
Seriously. On my side of the fence (OS X), we have Security Updates that are released as soon as possible after a hole is found. Then, we have major Updates (10.3.1, 10.3.2, etc). If you're more than one version behind, Software Update installs a combo updater (including all security updates), and you're good to go after one restart, no matter what version you're running. You're only exposed to the net for as long as it takes to download the package. What's so hard about that? Why this huge fuss over a difficult and long project to cram a huge-update-that-everyone-needs into one "service pack"?
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
Maybe it's "help desk personnels" with dating ads? "M tek sks F 4 lvl 2 sprt"
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Trouble is the majority of non geeks are idiots when it comes to security. Even some geeks can be lazy. The result is the inevitable "my computer is slow on the Internet" phone call, scumbags making money off dialler scams, spam zombies etc. inflicted on the rest of us.
Its the same principle as when driving. Consider everyone else as an idiot. That way when you come across one you're more likely to survive.
Philip
Signatures are broken
And we all know that the latest bleeding edge Linux distros are bug free... Right?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
You know, I'm not sure that this is a plan to force all pirated-key windows users to do anything.
... while the casual home pirates are not actually activly pirating MS's software, they strengthen MS--by making Windows the defacto standard... The Far-east street vendors of pirated software are not building microsoft's empire, they actually shrink it by removing people who would actually pay for their software from the pool.
You are very correct that Piracy has made microsoft what it is today--That being said, one can never allow piracy to continue unchecked and rampant. It needs to be chased down everywhere it can be. By making it as difficult as they can, casual pirates will be forced to either a) cough up the dough, or b) move to a platform that copying is not piracy (linux/bsd/etc...)
I think that it is in everyone's best interests to really evaluate their dependance on unlicensed software. The slashdot crowd goes bloody balistic any time any one violates the GPL by shipping a GPL derrived product without access to the source. They however seem to have a soft spot for violations of Microsoft's (et al) copyrights.. Odd bunch.
Back to your point tho'
"...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
SP2 will not automatically be installed. It will download automatically, but someone still has to accept the license agreement and manually install the service pack. There is nothing automatic about the install. Please stop spreading FUD about SP2!
Tech: Hello, help desk .. .. I'm about 5'4" with dark hair, brown eyes, and a petite slim build .. I like walks on the beach, romantic dinners, poetry, science fiction, and smart geeky guys .. ..
User: Hi, I'm having problems with my hard disk
Tech: hold on, I'll be right there
The simplest program ever was a 0-byte file in IBM's MVS operating system. (That O/S had some utilities that could only be accessed by running a "program" - and to get the utility to run without actually doing anything ... well, the solution was a program that literally did nothing).
:).
The funny thing was, someone wrote a Problem Tracking Report (i.e. "Bug") about this, and had the MVS team change the program - the flaw was that the return code register was being set in the utility, but the 0=byte program was not copying this result code into it's own return register, so the program was returning a "success" evem when a failure had occurred.
We co-ops got a chuckle out of it because of the "bugs per line of code" calculation would have had a div-by-zero problem
Chivalry is not dead, it's just frequently misspelt. - M. Langley
1)People complain about windows security.
2)Microsoft comes out with sp2 that has a built in firewall.
3)People then complain that the firewall makes it so alot of other firewall/security applications don't work.
4)Then they complain that things like FTP and IIS dont work....
Yes there are many applications that should run on this list, but really people, alot of these applications stop working for very good reasons.
FTP dosent work? configure your firewall. IIS dosent work, configure your firewall! Some of these programs stop working for a reason.
TruePunk | Games
One of my relatives works in a biochemical research lab. All of their computers are WinXP Sp1 because Sp2 basically broke every single program and driver they relied on for their daily calculations, data acquisition, and analysis (some of the software is commercial, and some was custom-written by people who are currently residing in Eastern Europe and Brazil). Naturally, every worm outbreak hits them hard -- but they think it's worth it to clean up a worm once every couple of months rather than struggle with their bread-and-butter programs locking up on Sp2.
Sp2 is great for the average Joe who uses his box for email and pr0n, but if you are using your computer as a scientific instrument, then installing Sp2 changes (and breaks) too many things.
(In case you are wondering, the reason they don't switch to Linux is that some of their data acquisition hardware doesn't have good Linux drivers)
OSX 10.0 to 10.1 to 10.2 to 10.3 isn't XP to XP SP1 to XP SP2.
;-)
It's more like Win95a to Win95b to Win95c to Win98 to Win98SE to WinME.
OSX 10.2 is vastly different from OSX 10.0 and same from 10.3 to 10.2. 10.4 to 10.3 again will be vastly different. The differences are greater than XP SP1 to XP SP2 or Win2K sp1 to Win2K sp2, etc...
Win95 is Windows Ver 4.0
Win98 is Windows Ver 4.1
WinME is Windows Ver 4.9
Win2K is Windows 5.0
WinXP is Windows 5.1
Win2K3 is Windows 5.2
Full versions of Home based are $200 with upgrades at $100 (Yes you can get them cheaper but this is the legitimate on the record price)
Full versions of Pro versions are $300 with upgrades are $200
OSX 10.0 (Cheetah)
OSX 10.1 (Puma)
OSX 10.2 (Jaguar)
OSX 10.3 (Panther)
OSX 10.4 (Tiger)
All versions are $129 for a full version.
(They also don't require virus protection @ 50/yr or spyeare protection)
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
I'm not an avid supporter of MS, but I believe that credit should be given when and where it is due. SP2 is a GOOD thing. Yes it breaks some things, but that is the price you pay for past mistakes. MS realized that they had 2 choices: 1) continue supporting a horribly flawed system 2) break the cycle, back up, fix the problems and start again. They made the daring choice to back up and start again. That is impressive for a company with a multibillion dollar product with 90% market share. It still isn't perfect, but I think that they know that. They're hoping that Longhorn will solve many of these problems. Maybe they're right, who knows though. At least they tried to help everyone out by fixing the product, giving people time to adopt and adapt, and are firm enough to stick to a schedule, knowing that the fix will only really help if EVERYONE is upgraded. KUDOS to MS. (Someone better take note of this moment, it may never happen again.)
Why doesn't anything interesting happen when I have mod points?
You are comparing "bleeding edge Linux distros" to a service pack to fix bugs in existing software.
Now, either the apps that broke were depending upon bugs in the OS (in which case, it is the ISV's fault)
-or-
Microsoft's approach to "patching" is wrong.
And please learn the difference between a bug fix and "bleeding edge".
If SP2 is breaking stuff, 99% of the time is because it's trying to use some network port that is now blocked with the firewall. Just sniff the traffic going in/out of one of the SP1 boxes, see what ports the apps seems to require, then open those ports after installing SP2 (or turning on the firwall in SP1)
First of all, I have found that all the incompatibility comes from two realms: NX-bit protection and the new Windows Firewall. Both are easy to disable.
/NoExecute=OptIn or /NoExecute line. (Go to System properties, Advanced tab. Startup and Recovery startup Settings button. and hit the edit button in the new window., it will open up your boot.ini file).
NX (off): Edit your boot.ini by removing that
Clear, simple, and every application will no longer flip out. + you'll get a boost in performance (I take a 10% performance hit when NX is on my laptop, far more visible in photoshop than any other application).
Windows Firewall: First off, GET A BETTER FIREWALL! Next step, net stop sharedaccess and find it in your services (Start->run: services.msc) Disabled it.
Horrah! Your windows should now perform in it's old SP1 ways. (I have yet to find any application to fail after these features were disabled). Oh yeah if you get annoyed by that Windows Security Center, in it's main window on the left side it has a way to change its notification (to completely off because nagging programs suck).
[!] No, I can't see my comments. They are not worthy of +3 moderation.