Woz, Others Ask Apple To Go Easy On Tiger Leak

tabkey12 writes "Drunkenbatman posts this impressive article with a pointed quote from Apple co-creator Steve Wozniak and 24 others from all parts of the Apple Software world, criticising Apple's stance against a 23-year-old pre-med student, desicanuk, who distributed a pre-release Tiger build over a popular Mac Bittorrent site. There's also an interview with desicanuk on drunkenbatman's site. (Original Slashdot article here.)"

Comments

Credibility

[Odo]

Posted by "Drunkenbatman". On "drunkenblog.com". Defending "desicanuk". Quotes people from "Delicious Monster", "DaringFireball" and "Unsanity". Submitted to "slashdot.org" by "tabkey12".

Two questions:

1. How do we expect to be taken seriously with pseudonyms like this?
2. How many /.ers didn't even blink while reading the intro?

Of course look who's talking; Odo, a fictional shapeshifter... <sigh>

Re:Credibility

[Speare]

All this about letters from "Wozniak" to a company named "Apple."

Credibility requires context. Someone unfamiliar with any of those proper nouns will have zero context, so there will be zero credibility. Add context, and things start to fall into place. Not every business needs to have a respectable name like "Federated Usable Computational Devices, Inc." and not every person must be a Smith or a Jones.

Intellectual Property

[uq1]

This is intellectual property of Apple, and should be treated as such.

He pirated software, he should pay the penalty.

No sympathy here.

Re:Intellectual Property

[Myuu]

Normally I would tend to agree with you, but I think Woz getting involved brought out another point to me.

The fact is that while Woz and Jobs were this guy's age, they did the same and a lot worse crap, blueboxing, drugs, etc. Look at where they took the world. Apple, the company that is supposed to be about going against the grain, is not living up to itself. In addition, by them suing this guy, they are holding back somebody that could have done a lot of good for others.

I think Apple is just feeding the fears that, as a result of the success of the iPod, the company is changing from what it used to be.

What's his defense?

[bigtallmofo]

From everything that I've read his defense to Apple's charge of him posting the pre-release software is that he's a kid, please feel sorry for him.

I feel sympathy for him too, but how do you stop leaks if not punish the people that perpetrate the leaks?

Re:What's his defense?

[gowen]

he's a kid, please feel sorry for him.

He's 23, for God's sake. He's not a kid, he's an adult.

And given that he *must* have been aware of the
i) illegality
ii) traceability
of his leaks, he's a particularly stupid adult.

Spare your sympathy for people who deserve it.

Re:What's his defense?

[nordicfrost]

I have read the interview, and I have a bad feeling about this guy. He claims that he was unaware of any uploading in BitTorrent, how can you be unaware of it? The whole systems is based upon the fact that as soon as you download, you become an uploader! FTA: "I made the foolish assumption that since I wasn't a developer, and I had a copy that it would be ok if I shared it with 5 or 6 fellow mac fanatics."

Well, if you grasp the concept of illegal software distribution (and I'm not agreeing to the concept, just retelling it as it actually is), he has just admitted the "crime". You are dealing with the law and a private company eager to protect its secrets. I suggest you buy a cluestick and hit yourself over the head with it until you realise it is illegal.

Now, unless he pleads insanity; not understanding what you are doing when you are doing a crime is no an excuse. If I spit chewing gum on the streets of Singapore do you think they'll be lenient on me just because I didn't know it was a crime? Nope.

When I went to law school (relax, I'm not a lawyer) a professor had a saying about my Scandinavian country: "People here seem to think they are born with an insurance for screw-ups. As soon as they do something stupid, they expect sympathy and help from the government." The same can be applied to Desicanuk, you screwed up, broke a contract and actually did a crime. Now fess up and be a man.

FTA: "When I signed up for the free ADC account, I didn't read the agreement. I suppose a lot of us don't read word for word every thing you agree to." Yeah, well you should have. It is retarded to sign something without reading and understanding it. EULAs, which I hate with a passion, are a slightly different thing, but the contract with ADC is something you really should read. An unread contract will almost always bite you in the ass, tell it to my GF who signed a contract with a private school and now has paid thousands of dollars because she signed up for the military while having committed to the contract.

You live, you learn.

Re:What's his defense?

[MattBurke]

This isn't about guilt - he's admitted what he's done. It's about the disproportionate punishment which comes from things like this nowadays.

If they slap him with a stupid debt then that's his life ruined. If he'd have shoplifted the 5 or 6 copies he said he distributed, he'd have been a lot better off legally. Heck he'd have been better off if he'd have hijacked a truck full of the stuff at gunpoint! It isn't even release software!

Undisclosed Sum

[wren337]

This would be a great place to see them settle for an "undisclosed sum" (like a dollar), on condition that neither party discuss the matter further. Everyone wins; Apple doesn't publicly "back down", and the guy gets his life back.

Or they could grind his bones to make their bread, whatever. I don't know him.

Re:Apple's Dilema

[qwertphobia]

But Apple do not really sell software at all.

Take a look at Apple's software page and tell me how many applications you see there. Most of these are not provided for free, and some are pretty expensive.

Re:Apple's Dilema

[rebeka thomas]

> But Apple do not really sell software at all. They sell hardware,
> and they sell fashion

Awesome. Since Microsoft do not really sell hardware at all - they sell software... It must be OK for me to just go take a Microsoft Intellimouse, and a Microsoft keyboard.

Cool.

summary...

[constantnormal]

1) Kid signs up for limited freebee ADC membership, knowing that it does not include access to Tiger beta, in order to have "real" developer (who should certainly know better) place a d/l seed in his area. -- mildly unethical.

2) Kid, excited with his "prize", sends it out to his web "buddies" so they can share in the radiant joy. Exceedingly stoopid.

3) A restricted beta of a product Apple intends to make hundreds of millions of $$$ from is released into the wild for free. Entirely predictable.

4) Apple gets justifiably upset, sues all in sight. About all that Apple can do at this point is make an example of them.

5) The Woz feels sorry that the Kid is getting punished for his unthinking brush with Reality, donates $1000 to his defense.

So what can we learn from this?

1) Apple needs to tighten up ability to transfer software assets between classes of ADC members.

2) Kids (or anyone) that act in an unthinking manner can expect to be educated. Think of it as Evolution in Action.

3) People will gawk at a grisly highway accident, whether on concrete or etherial roadways.

Move along folks.

Re:Woz is too much of an idealist

[Anonymous Coward]

As much as I admire Woz's idealism, I wouldn't take business advice from him!

Let's see .. Wozniack is a billionaire .. and you .. hmm?

Let me see here .. remind me again why I should take advice from you over someone who's made billions of dollars? And before you blab something about how it was all Steve Jobs business acumen .. well if Woz was such a business dope he would have told Steve off and stayed in his job at HP instead of taking a mad risk and forming Apple with nearly nothing.

Re:Stallman was right

[Anonymous Coward]

> Of course they do but the point is that if this was a GPL'd
> piece of software there would have been problem with the guy
> distributing it in this way

And if it rained liquid iron from the sky we'd all be burned. We aren't in a fantasy world where Tiger is a piece of GPL software.

Tiger is licensed to people under licenses decided upon by Apple. People break that license and Apple gets upset. Many slashdotters seem to think Apple shouldn't, and should just turn a blind eye to it.

If they think that, then they should also not get upset when a company breaks the license terms of GPL software, ie by incorporating GPL code into a proprietary closed source app.

So why is it OK to break Apple's license and go all "awwww Apple should turn a blind eye" when if the GPL was being broken by the same guy, most of slashdot would call for his lynching, be posting his home phone number, address, contact details, criminal records or what have you, online.

Re:Apple's Dilema

[1000101]

"But Apple do not really sell software at all..

What? Apple had $213 million in 1Q05 in software sales, and estimates $1 billion in software revenues for this year. And you think Apple doesn't really sell software??

Re:Woz is too much of an idealist

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, I wish I could end up in the kind of soup that Jobs ended up in with NeXT. A $400 Million buy-out which led to a boardroom coup opportunity in which he regained control of his old multi-billion-dollar company!

Please Lord, let me make a few mistakes like that!

Re:Woz is too much of an idealist

[Anonymous Coward]

People are not fans of Apple because Jobs is a nice guy. He's not. He's infamous for his absurdly hot temper.

People are not fans of Apple because they are warm and fuzzy towards those who they see as a threat to their interests. They're not. This goes all the way back to the Apple ][ and the lawsuits over the Frankline computers which were designed to mimic them.

People are fans of Apple because they keep cranking out impressive innovations to the way humans and computers interact, and when at their best, sell really spiffy hardware that takes advantage of these innovations.

As long as they do that, most of us are fine with them being asshats.

The Problem

[catdevnull]

I'm not pro-corporate. Let me say that up front.

Apple has a NDA that they require of all developers who receive "pre-release" copies of software in development. If Apple does not pursue litigation then their NDA basically means nothing. They are perfectly within their legal rights to insist that the agreement be kept. So, the poor bastard who's getting sued should have known better.

There are open source packages out there to distribute freely without the wrath of the owner. It seems that there are many slashdot readers who are not mature enough to recognize that the world doesn't work that way. I'm not saying it's right--I'm just saying that just because you think IP laws are rubbish or do not apply to you doesn't change the fact that they the law and they do, in fact, apply. It's naive to think that electronic civil disobedience will not be met with the very sharp teeth and claws of the corporate legal eagles/weasels. Everyone always says, "Oh, that poor grandmother or little kid getting picked on by the corporations."

Fight the law with the law. Vigilante piracy isn't going to magically tip the law in the favor of Utopian RMS world. It's friggin' common sense people--DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN CORPORATIONS. Everyone here knows it's against the law to share copyrighted music, software, or some other IP. If you do it anyway don't bitch if you get caught. Just because we don't like the corporations doesn't make it right to steal from them--that makes us immature miscreant punks. And the legal system will treat you as such.

This world runs on money--corporations are greedy entities that will suck the lives out of every human being. Don't buy corporate. Fight with your power as a "consumer" by not being one. DON'T BE A CONSUMER WHORE but be a law-abiding citizen, too. [PSA brought to you by catdevnull].

Re:Woz is too much of an idealist

[Anonymous Coward]

"Woz is only wealthy because Steve Jobs found a good way to sell his product for him "

No, Steve Jobs is only wealthy because Woz figured out how to create an elegant personal computer.

There are a lot of smart people in the world.

There are a lot of people who are good at selling.

Without Woz, there is no Jobs. Without Jobs, there is no Woz.

There are equally responsible for Apple, along with about 3 other people who you've never heard of.

Ding ding -- Proportionate Justice in civil cases

[ianscot]

You nailed that. The hallmark of any decent system of justice is its sense of proportion.

As a nation, the US is struggling with that "proportionate" part.

Think of all the ways in which we're drifting, semi-consciously, toward authoritarian responses to crime. The death penalty, "three strikes" mandatory sentencing rules that take sentencing away from judges in order for politicians to appear "tough on crime," drug sentences that put people away for disproportionate sentences compared with the punishment violent criminals get hit with. Any sense of proportion goes out the window once you've got the public responding to politicians who'll play to that. We've got plenty of /. posters who reacted to the "webcam break-in" story last week by saying "throw away the key" when they found out the guy only got 11 months in prison. Politicians eat that stuff up.

(Or take a look at Martha Stewart; it's completely freaking clear that she didn't do anything other big stock players aren't doing right now. She's being made into an example. Meanwhile Ken Lay? Connected to our President, and I don't notice him doing crime for destroying countless Enron employees' retirements through his quite extreme reckless behavior and that of his entire energy junta. That's not proportionate justice.)

Meanwhile, the corporate influence on government is simultaneously de-fanging potential civil suits against big corporations and giving them those corporate entities the ability to completely ream individuals who can't defend themselves in any real way against the money the big players can array against them.

This guy sounds like a fool -- the "I'm not hiring a lawyer" idiocy that some posters here are backing has partly gotten him into this spot. ("The person who represents himself as a lawyer has a fool for a client.") But he shouldn't be destroyed. He should be made aware that he has to think about what he's doing, and he needs to feel that message.

What needs to happen is that he gets a lawyer, Apple makes a big show of being amiable about this but also bares its teeth for a while, and everybody goes home with the usual "undisclosed settlement" -- equivalent to a month's salary for him, or something like, but never to be disclosed.

How this public letter approach is going to play will be interesting. Apple doesn't want to take bad PR, no -- so they need a way to come out of this as the Good Company.