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Apple to Buy TiVo?

Posted by samzenpus on from the rumor-mill dept.

vallette writes "Reuters is reporting that Apple may be interested in buying TiVo. Seems like a good fit to me. Both companies stock price is up on the rumor."

40 of 491 comments (clear)

  1. Go for it! by BWJones · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How can this not be a good idea? A decent PVR setup (with hardware acceleration) has been missing for the MacOS platform. Even though there are software options, they require heavy duty hardware and because there is no hardware acceleration, even a G5 takes a bit of crunching to perform compressions and such. Also, given Apple's video compression technologies such as Pixlet would make ideal means for encoding video for later replay, say on the plane or some such downtime.

    Of course the business analysis will make the ultimate determination of whether or not Apple is willing to make the move, (and Tivo has been losing money), but if any company can make it work, while showing the MPAA and equivalent TV organization a past history of success in media with iTunes, Apple is it. Come on, how would you like to in addition to the traditional PVR duties, be able to pull up TV episodes of old series that are not being shown, even in syndication? Or have a truly "on demand" movie library of all sorts, not just the popular canned options that cable companies think will be most profitable?

    --
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    1. Re:Go for it! by useosx · · Score: 5, Funny

      So if Apple buys TiVo are they then dying twice as fast or twice as slow?

      Or are their deaths still interdependent?

    2. Re:Go for it! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Funny

      So if Apple buys TiVo are they then dying twice as fast or twice as slow?

      It'll seem faster because you can skip the commercials.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:Go for it! by tgibbs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that it is likely that Apple will get into the PVR business, probably once the CableCard 2.0 standard is finalized and it becomes possible for 3rd party devices to replicate and extend the function of cable boxes.

      As a TiVo owner, I'd like to see Apple buy TiVo.

      But as an Apple stockholder, I don't see what Apple gets out of the deal.

      DVR technology? It's no great secret. There are open-source DVRs. If they want to buy the technology, Elgato is probably cheaper, and their stuff already runs on OS X.

      The TiVo brandname? Apple is probably one of the few companies with little to gain from the Tivo name. Apple already has more brand recognition than TiVo, and they'd to better to merchandise a hypothetical Apple DVR as "the company that brought you the iPod" than on the basis of the less well known TiVo name.

      The TiVo interface? It's impressive for a consumer electronics product, but nothing special by Apple standards. Presumably, Apple would want to roll their own, as they did for iPod.

      Tivo's current customers? If they aren't making a profit for TiVo, why would they make one for Apple? Besides, Apple presumably will want to introduce something like the iTunes Music Store for HD video. This will require H.264 for efficient content delivery. Current TiVo hardware can't handle this. Presumably, current TiVo owners will be looking to upgrade in the next few years to a DVR with HD capability. Why shouldn't it be an Apple instead of a TiVo?

      TiVo's patents? This is the only thing I can think of that Apple might want. But I'm not sure how crucial they are. They certainly haven't stopped cable companies from handing out competing DVRs, or Elgato from implementing one on the Mac. Still, I suppose that it is possible that TiVo has some patent that would be crucial to the kind of user experience that Apple hopes to create.

      Eliminating a potential competitor for the DVR market? Again, perhaps, but at the moment TiVo isn't seeming like that big a threat.

    4. Re:Go for it! by prichardson · · Score: 5, Informative

      Misconception Alert!

      Don't worry, it's a minor one.

      Pixlet is designed for video editing. It compresses each frame individually. This is good for doing certain effects, since any frame can be pulled out of context.

      MPEG-4 compression uses previous frames to make a frame. This allows the file to be smaller, but doesn't allow frames to pulled out of context for effects to be added.

      Hope that clears things up! Otherwise, great post.

      --
      Help I'm a rock.
    5. Re:Go for it! by ciroknight · · Score: 5, Insightful

      actually, you know what? I was going to moderate you +1, but I figured it's better just to post this: Why aren't there more people like you on slashdot? instead of the ordinary "slash and bash", you added the little "otherwise, great post" to the end.. and i thought that was awesome; a slashdot reader who DOESN'T have the soul purpose of bashing other people..

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    6. Re:Go for it! by Hellasboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An Apple product in every home.

      Think of possible upgrades. "Buy a computer AND a DVR" at a switch of a button you can browse the 'net on your hdtv, click a button and you're back to watching the shows you missed while browsing on the 'net. Hell, it wouldn't be so out of the ordinary that the DVR and OS can mingle together in some capacity (but not too much as they would want to keep the setup as simple as possible).

      When people buy a second home computer, they're going to buy the type of computer that's already found controlling their TV.

      Microsoft gained dominance by attacking the business market back in the 80s. Gaining dominance now means that a company needs to attack the home entertainment market.

      And someone will bring up how the game systems are trying to do DVR work. They won't succeed nearly as well because their is no line of succession past those systems. An Apple branded Tivo could lead to an Apple/Tivo hybrid (separate hardware in the same enclosure, don't make the mistake of windows mce) that leads to people using an Apple as their primary computer. Apple can do this because they do a great job of homogenizing their brand. An XBox has no consumer friendly interoperatiblity (sp?) with a Windows box.

      --

      "Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
    7. Re:Go for it! by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple buys Tivo. Apple ads a DRM layer onto Tivo. Apple starts selling MPEG2 and 4 movies at iTunes. Apple lets you download movies and watch them on your big screen, whenever you want, somthing nobody else can offer. Apple releases an iPod with a color screen...

      Tivo has a large HDD, a network connection, and a large installed base. If you go with MPEG2 (still the DVD standard) instead of MPEG4, you A: save yourself a lot of re-encoding costs and B: incentivize buying a newer model with a bigger hard drive.

      This would be great. I don't think it's serious, but this would be great.

      Don't forget, Apple bought the basis for iTunes and the iPod before making them over with good design.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    8. Re:Go for it! by truesaer · · Score: 4, Insightful
      TiVo comes prepackaged with a million subscribers, partnerships with cable and satellite providers, lots of patents and other IP, engineering expertise, brand name recognition, supply channels and marketing, etc.


      Developing from scratch would take what, a year minimum? These boxes have to be solid. You can't just throw MythTV into a system and start shipping.


      Buying TiVo gives them a running start. They can always call it the Apple TiVo or the Mac TiVo if they want.

    9. Re:Go for it! by desmodromic · · Score: 5, Funny


      it's "sole purpose", dumb-ass.

      otherwise, great post.

    10. Re:Go for it! by milkman_matt · · Score: 4, Funny

      Buying TiVo gives them a running start. They can always call it the Apple TiVo or the Mac TiVo if they want.

      or the iVo!

  2. Right... by atezun · · Score: 5, Funny

    And mysteriously my TiVo no longer skips those retina burning iPod commercials

    1. Re:Right... by SilentChris · · Score: 4, Funny

      Aww, com'on. Admit it. You had fun guessing those guys were U2. It took my wife 6 repeated viewings to figure that out (and it took my grandmother one viewing to spout "Why on earth would that girl twirl her hair around like that? She's going to get whiplash!")

    2. Re:Right... by Patik · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think it's time you move out of your grandmother's house so you and your wife can have your own place.

  3. Figures by Walker2323 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If anyone can figure this one out it's Apple. Tivo is an amazing product, it just needs to be managed properly. Apple seems to be pretty good at that these days.

  4. the little "i" thing by TWX · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, at least the TiVo service already somewhat goes with the current Apple naming scheme...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  5. Digital hub by caryw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This would make sense as it would fit in with their "digital hub" philosophy. My only question is how would they integrate it with their existing product line?
    iPodTV anyone?
    --Fairfax Underground: Where Fairfax County comes out to play

  6. Mac Tivo? by CTO1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Great. Now my Tivo will play even fewer games.

    1. Re:Mac Tivo? by daeley · · Score: 5, Funny

      Great. Now my Tivo will play even fewer games.

      Wait till you see the one-button remote control. ;)

      (I kid because I love.)

      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
  7. I wish by JHromadka · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not sure if the bandwidth requirements are there yet, but it would be an interesting proposition. iPod::iTMS, TiVo::iMVS (iMovie Video Store). Given TiVo's crapping on the Mac lately by not supporting AAC and no Mac support for TiVo2Go, I think this is purely wishful-thinking on the analyst's part.

    --
    "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
  8. Apple Product Cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Saw funny run-down of the Apple product cycle in someone's sig today. This cracked me up.

  9. Re:Maybe it's going here by MyDixieWrecked · · Score: 4, Informative

    dude, thos pictures have already been confirmed fakes. You can see that it's just a white cardboard box with a color-laserprint top and front and ports...

    heh.

    --



    ...spike
    Ewwwwww, coconut...
  10. Alternatively... by Chordonblue · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Or how would you like to ride in an aircar to your destination, or 'micro-wave' all of your food?

    As usual, good ideas never live up to the reality and the problem here isn't so cut and dried. CONTENT is the issue. All I see Apple gaining is the TiVO name (which in and of itself isn't a bad thing). Content suppliers are the ones who will have to meet consumers halfway and if what's been going on with the DMCA, Broadcast Flag, and other nonsense, I don't see this changing.

    Now... If Apple decides to take chances and 'loophole' solutions to let their consumers do what they want with the content - THAT would be interesting. So far, it appears the consumer electronics industry as a whole is rolling over when challenged by the likes of the RIAA and MPAA.

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
    1. Re:Alternatively... by tgibbs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Content suppliers are the ones who will have to meet consumers halfway and if what's been going on with the DMCA, Broadcast Flag, and other nonsense, I don't see this changing.

      Actually, Steve Jobs might be the one guy who can do this. Remember, he's not just a potential DVR manufacturer, he is also, through Pixar, a content producer himself. So as he did with iTunes, he may well be able to work out a DRM scheme that is acceptable to the industry, yet not unacceptable to the average consumer.

    2. Re:Alternatively... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Okay, lets ignore the GIANT divide between PC and TV which Apple has tried to bridge before with its TV Mac or whatever that thing was.

      Apple would not only get the name but the familiar and excellent Tivo interface/software. This includes the familiar and excellent Tivo remote. Sure, upside down it looks like a, ahem, little black dildo, but other than that its probably the best remote design out there. They also get Tivo's customer base and a chance to build upon a well-known brand.

      Lastly, they also get all that sweet, sweet tv datamining. The data tivo collects makes the Neilson system look like 1950's technology. Apple could better resell or use this information than tivo currently does. Sounds weird? Not any weirder than Apple being the largest online digital music seller and mp3 player producer.

      There's a lot to tivo Apple can build on. If apple wants to bridge the TV/PC gap then this looks like a smart move.

    3. Re:Alternatively... by 16384 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      besides the fact that Apple computers actually look good :)

    4. Re:Alternatively... by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, Jobs is a salesman; a salesman who lead a company to producing the first Unix easy enough for your proverbial grandmother to use. Maybe he's not an engineer, but he's smart enough to listen to engineers and come away with something useful. He's not a movie director, but he's smart enough to listen to a movie director and come away with something useful.

      This puts him way ahead of most the CEO pack. His repertoire of leadership practices extends beyond posturing and playing power games with his subordinates, although he certainly does those things well enough.

      You may rightfullly despise Jobs' personal style with respect to his subordinates (as I do), but at this late date it's pretty clear he's not some empty suit. In particular, he is smart enough to understand the strategy of enlightened self interest. In that respect, his ties to the entertainment industry give him the credibility that walking in their shoes and talking their language brings.

      So a Tivo/Apple marriage could potentially be a watershed event in the whole DRM affair.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re:Alternatively... by schtum · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sure the TiVo apologists will emerge soon to defend their baby to the death.

      Okay, I'll bite. TiVo collects anonymous statistics. The annual "most-replayed Super Bowl moment" press release is a marketing gimmick. It makes the handful of people who still don't know what TiVo is sit up and say "wow, I wish I could do that."

      Sure, there's the potential for them to connect those statistics to customer names and sell it to advertisers, but TiVo has built a solid reputation for being a company, like Google, that "gets it". They earned our trust years ago when they turned a blind eye to hacking, and they've done an admirable job of walking the line between customer satisfaction and entertainment industry lawsuits.

      Let's put this in context. Google issues a press release every year about their Zeitgeist site. Are you upset that they keep statistics on top queries? Does it worry you that every search you do can be traced back to your IP address? Are you outraged that this info may be used to build databases for Google Suggest?

      If so, then put your tinfoil hat back on and let's agree to disagree.

    6. Re:Alternatively... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ever since Steve Jobs took over, I have pumped $$$ into iPods, iTunes and accessories. And I have never bought an Apple product before. Tivo or not, I give him alot of credit for the company's success.

  11. The discussions went something like... by Mr.+Cancelled · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "You see we have this new computer that we think would be a nice machine to power a familys media needs... It'll handle DVD's, CD's, mp3's, and a ton of other formats. And it's small! A family could tuck is away somewhere our of the way, and control everything through say a Bluetooth enabled remote. And did I mention it's quiet? You could hear a pin drop with it running a foot away from you".

    "Of course it would also nice if we could somehow integrate some PVR-like capabilities into our system... Time shifting and the like... Well say, that's what you boys do, now that I think about it. Look... You could sell media boxs for the next few years, until the cable companies, and the satellite companies put you out of business, Or... You could join up with me, and we can change the world!"

  12. Re:Snide Remark by Moofie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Call me crazy, but based on the last few financial quarters, I'm guessing that Steve jobs has a better handle on his business than you do. If he does this deal, it's going to be because he thinks he can make it work.

    WTF is up with the blue plastic crack? How many current Apple products come in blue plastic?

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  13. Apple better off on there own by piltdownman84 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Really, why would Apple want Tivo? Last I heard tivo was starting to fall on hard times.

    Far better off just making their own PVR software. You can already hack together a pretty nice PVR using a Motorola DCT-6200 and a Mac. see here : http://macteens.com/more.php?id=410_0_1_0_C

    The only reason Apple might want tivo is to leverage themselves somehow into the way that cable/satellite/ip content is distributed, just to block M$ push. Maybe i'm missing something but I don't see how buying tivo would help much if any with this.

    That said I would love to see a nice Mac Mini DVR from Apple. That said if they don't make one, not too hard to make one yourself.

    I, for one, welcome our iPippen overlords

  14. Perfect Match by MustEatYemen · · Score: 4, Funny

    Misery Loves Company.
    Wonder when Apple will pick up BSD cause that's been dying forever, oh wait.

  15. Mac mini is the next TiVo unit? by Linuxathome · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A cursory glance certainly highlights pros of an Apple/TiVo merger:

    1. Mac mini can be a TiVo unit (just use the S-Video out adapter for your TV set). Although it'll need a TV card (wish they'd come out with something like the Hauppauge Nexus-S satellite TV card).
    2. Next generation iPod Photo will probably be iPod Video with content that can be transferred from your TiVo unit (the Mac mini) to your iPod Video portable unit.
    3. Apple is probably not happy with just distributing music media (via its iTunes store) but is looking to the future to also provide downloadable video content via an "iVideo" store--what better way to do that than to buy the TiVo customer base and offer them this content.
    4. Apple can ensure that the saved video content has the right digital stamps (a la .AAC but for video) to restrict transfer of video to approved "devices" such as other TiVo units or portable accessories.

    The one downside I see in this merger is that Apple will probably concentrate less and less on the service of "timeshifting" (i.e. drop it entirely), unless they can ensure that users have a right to that material. READ: unless the bigwigs of TV land is happy about how Apple handles digital rights management of timeshifted/saved content. Although timeshifting and saving media for later viewing is currently acceptable, the logical path that this technology leads to, is the ability to share that content or make it portable--something that is not yet acceptable among Hollywood and the TV networks.

    --
    Linux at home
    1. Re:Mac mini is the next TiVo unit? by fiftyfly · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Although it'll need a TV card
      How about a firewire adapter....and when people are actually buying this stuff an onboard apater on the next not-quite-so-obviously-an-adapted-ibook-mini in, say, a year.
      Next generation iPod Photo will probably be iPod Video
      How about a bluetooth enabled iPod (plus bluetooth enabled airport express) that can be used as a remote for thie iTiVO
      --
      "Sanity is not statistical", George Orwell, "1984"
  16. Debt by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Doesn't TiVo have a huge amount of debt? While their product may be interesting, I am under the belief that if Apple were to purchase Tivo, it would mean also having to acquire that debt--whereas, if anything, if Apple just purchased the rights to the TiVo software (to run on a mini, etc) they don't have to take on that debt too.

    What does Apple gain from a TiVo purchase vs a license to their tech? If Tivo were making money, there'd be that--but they aren't and their prospects are dim.

    I can see Apple licensing the tech, releasing it for free (for Macs) or as part of their iLife tools--and then charging a sub to hit Apple servers for schedule download. And I think they could do really interesting things with DRM content with OS X as a platform. I guess we'll see.

    --

    --
    $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    1. Re:Debt by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      TiVo doesn't carry a huge amount of debt. It carries just $7.3 million in debt. It has $88.3 million in cash, so the debt is minimal. Unfortunately, TiVo's cash flow is seriously negative, so that $88.3 million might not last them very long.

  17. Re:Maybe it's going here by bsharitt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why would they make a Tivo out of a cardboard box?

  18. Why not TiVo? by KingSkippus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I keep seeing posts about how awful it would be for Apple to buy TiVo because TiVo is losing money and/or subscribers and because of the onslaught of competition from other PVR companies.

    Regardless of its declining status, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't TiVo still the current market leader for PVR products? I mean, if Apple DOES want to quickly get into the PVR market, wouldn't it just make sense to buy the market leader and go from there if possible?

    It just seems to me that even if TiVo is losing money and/or subscribers and/or market share, it would be a hell of a lot easier for Apple to buy it and turn it around than to start from scratch and overtake them with a whole new product line. Besides, TiVo does still have some interesting things going on. Even though the deal is winding down, they still have the DirecTV subscribers, plus the Home Media capabilities (easily integrated with iPods), plus the Netflix deal, and so on.

    Whether or not this actually happens, it seems to me that this would be a sweet deal for both companies, if (and only if) Apple seriously wants to get into the media center market.

    (If Apple does this just to "play around" in the media center market, then it will be an unmitigated disaster for both companies.)

  19. anatomy of a rumor by aka-ed · · Score: 5, Informative
    At 12:21 pm someone calling himself "philipswann" posted the following on the Yahoo board:

    TiVo Sale Rumors -- link
    by: phillipswann 02/23/05 12:21 pm
    Msg: 239226 of 239994

    http://www.swannisez.com/tivorumor022305.html

    (If you look at that link now, it's a rehash of Reuters news concerning the rumor, with no hint that Swann -- who has probably scared himself half to death by singlehandedly moving the market -- started this rumor himself)

    At 3:11 pm, Marketwatch issued a sloppy story that credited an entity called "Inside Digital Media" for cracking the apple buyout story. However, if you visit the site, you will find a blog entry that presents a well-reasoned rationale as to why Apple should buy Tivo, but no hard news at all.

    Subsequently, analyst Steven Kroll, Jr. (whose dad is a senior partner at the same firm) provided the "what we hear on the street" quote that Reuters served up.

    No one seems to have bothered at all to trace this garbage to its specious sources.

    I own some Tivo, and was watching all of this today because I was considering cutting my losses (this dog had lost one-third of its value in a month). Instead, I'm holding on and hoping for a short squeeze, or even the possibility that the rumors will alert video-on-demand competitors to what a bargain TIVO's 3 million subscribers would be for anyone seeking a toehold on the living room.

    So, while it looks to me that the rumor is only that, I wouldn't be too surprised if it became reality.

    --
    I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07