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Apple to Buy TiVo?

Posted by samzenpus on from the rumor-mill dept.

vallette writes "Reuters is reporting that Apple may be interested in buying TiVo. Seems like a good fit to me. Both companies stock price is up on the rumor."

119 of 491 comments (clear)

  1. Go for it! by BWJones · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How can this not be a good idea? A decent PVR setup (with hardware acceleration) has been missing for the MacOS platform. Even though there are software options, they require heavy duty hardware and because there is no hardware acceleration, even a G5 takes a bit of crunching to perform compressions and such. Also, given Apple's video compression technologies such as Pixlet would make ideal means for encoding video for later replay, say on the plane or some such downtime.

    Of course the business analysis will make the ultimate determination of whether or not Apple is willing to make the move, (and Tivo has been losing money), but if any company can make it work, while showing the MPAA and equivalent TV organization a past history of success in media with iTunes, Apple is it. Come on, how would you like to in addition to the traditional PVR duties, be able to pull up TV episodes of old series that are not being shown, even in syndication? Or have a truly "on demand" movie library of all sorts, not just the popular canned options that cable companies think will be most profitable?

    --
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    1. Re:Go for it! by useosx · · Score: 5, Funny

      So if Apple buys TiVo are they then dying twice as fast or twice as slow?

      Or are their deaths still interdependent?

    2. Re:Go for it! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Funny

      So if Apple buys TiVo are they then dying twice as fast or twice as slow?

      It'll seem faster because you can skip the commercials.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:Go for it! by tgibbs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that it is likely that Apple will get into the PVR business, probably once the CableCard 2.0 standard is finalized and it becomes possible for 3rd party devices to replicate and extend the function of cable boxes.

      As a TiVo owner, I'd like to see Apple buy TiVo.

      But as an Apple stockholder, I don't see what Apple gets out of the deal.

      DVR technology? It's no great secret. There are open-source DVRs. If they want to buy the technology, Elgato is probably cheaper, and their stuff already runs on OS X.

      The TiVo brandname? Apple is probably one of the few companies with little to gain from the Tivo name. Apple already has more brand recognition than TiVo, and they'd to better to merchandise a hypothetical Apple DVR as "the company that brought you the iPod" than on the basis of the less well known TiVo name.

      The TiVo interface? It's impressive for a consumer electronics product, but nothing special by Apple standards. Presumably, Apple would want to roll their own, as they did for iPod.

      Tivo's current customers? If they aren't making a profit for TiVo, why would they make one for Apple? Besides, Apple presumably will want to introduce something like the iTunes Music Store for HD video. This will require H.264 for efficient content delivery. Current TiVo hardware can't handle this. Presumably, current TiVo owners will be looking to upgrade in the next few years to a DVR with HD capability. Why shouldn't it be an Apple instead of a TiVo?

      TiVo's patents? This is the only thing I can think of that Apple might want. But I'm not sure how crucial they are. They certainly haven't stopped cable companies from handing out competing DVRs, or Elgato from implementing one on the Mac. Still, I suppose that it is possible that TiVo has some patent that would be crucial to the kind of user experience that Apple hopes to create.

      Eliminating a potential competitor for the DVR market? Again, perhaps, but at the moment TiVo isn't seeming like that big a threat.

    4. Re:Go for it! by prichardson · · Score: 5, Informative

      Misconception Alert!

      Don't worry, it's a minor one.

      Pixlet is designed for video editing. It compresses each frame individually. This is good for doing certain effects, since any frame can be pulled out of context.

      MPEG-4 compression uses previous frames to make a frame. This allows the file to be smaller, but doesn't allow frames to pulled out of context for effects to be added.

      Hope that clears things up! Otherwise, great post.

      --
      Help I'm a rock.
    5. Re:Go for it! by modecx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I could easily see Apple doing to DVRs as they've done to MP3 players--and if they pickup TiVo it would be all the more easy; the hard work is done, all they need to do is spiff it up and put that special Apple twist on it (make it purdy), and more importantly, make it marketable. IMHO, this is the one area TiVo has always been shy in.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    6. Re:Go for it! by ciroknight · · Score: 5, Insightful

      actually, you know what? I was going to moderate you +1, but I figured it's better just to post this: Why aren't there more people like you on slashdot? instead of the ordinary "slash and bash", you added the little "otherwise, great post" to the end.. and i thought that was awesome; a slashdot reader who DOESN'T have the soul purpose of bashing other people..

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    7. Re:Go for it! by Hellasboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An Apple product in every home.

      Think of possible upgrades. "Buy a computer AND a DVR" at a switch of a button you can browse the 'net on your hdtv, click a button and you're back to watching the shows you missed while browsing on the 'net. Hell, it wouldn't be so out of the ordinary that the DVR and OS can mingle together in some capacity (but not too much as they would want to keep the setup as simple as possible).

      When people buy a second home computer, they're going to buy the type of computer that's already found controlling their TV.

      Microsoft gained dominance by attacking the business market back in the 80s. Gaining dominance now means that a company needs to attack the home entertainment market.

      And someone will bring up how the game systems are trying to do DVR work. They won't succeed nearly as well because their is no line of succession past those systems. An Apple branded Tivo could lead to an Apple/Tivo hybrid (separate hardware in the same enclosure, don't make the mistake of windows mce) that leads to people using an Apple as their primary computer. Apple can do this because they do a great job of homogenizing their brand. An XBox has no consumer friendly interoperatiblity (sp?) with a Windows box.

      --

      "Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
    8. Re:Go for it! by afidel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because without exception the cable bundled DVR's suck ass, and the cable companies will never give you a feature like 30 second skip even though it's one of the things that people with third party products most rave about? Would I buy a DVR from Apple that costs around $500, does HDTV and allows download on demand? You betcha, and I can guarentee you that I'm not alone. The hardware should be doable, just add a tuner to the mini design and throw away the general PC functionality so as not to canabilze their own market, the content part is tricky, but Jobs has by far the best chance since he's already hooked into the media industry through his shopping for a distributor for Pixar when he had his spat with Eisener.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    9. Re:Go for it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think you're underestimating Tivo's position in the market. Yes, their users aren't making them any money, but Apple is in a better position to capitalise on them.

      Furthermore, Tivo is "the" PVR appliance. Apple buying them adds instant credibility and instant userbase. You might think that Apple have credibility already, but despite their attempts, they are still known as a computer company rather than an appliance company.

      Buying a company gives them a running start as well. There's no sense suffering from Not Invented Here syndrome and writing your own, when you can instantly get a codebase and engineers that have worked on it.

      I think Tivo is a good match with Apple. I can see Apple pulling together the home network much more easily than Microsoft. They are ahead of the game with the small-form factor and LCD screens by default, they have components to meld your Mac, your stereo and your iPod together, and Zeroconf takes the headaches out of configuring it all.

      Apple are establishing themselves slowly in the appliance market, and following that up with services to match - Mac OS X with .Mac, iTunes with iTMS, and Tivo fits in nicely with this strategy.

      I can't think of another company that I truly feel has a good idea of where it's going, how to get there, and which companies will aid them in doing so - except perhaps Google. If Apple buys Tivo, I'll see this as simply another indicator that Apple Has Its Head Screwed On[tm].

    10. Re:Go for it! by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple buys Tivo. Apple ads a DRM layer onto Tivo. Apple starts selling MPEG2 and 4 movies at iTunes. Apple lets you download movies and watch them on your big screen, whenever you want, somthing nobody else can offer. Apple releases an iPod with a color screen...

      Tivo has a large HDD, a network connection, and a large installed base. If you go with MPEG2 (still the DVD standard) instead of MPEG4, you A: save yourself a lot of re-encoding costs and B: incentivize buying a newer model with a bigger hard drive.

      This would be great. I don't think it's serious, but this would be great.

      Don't forget, Apple bought the basis for iTunes and the iPod before making them over with good design.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    11. Re:Go for it! by truesaer · · Score: 4, Insightful
      TiVo comes prepackaged with a million subscribers, partnerships with cable and satellite providers, lots of patents and other IP, engineering expertise, brand name recognition, supply channels and marketing, etc.


      Developing from scratch would take what, a year minimum? These boxes have to be solid. You can't just throw MythTV into a system and start shipping.


      Buying TiVo gives them a running start. They can always call it the Apple TiVo or the Mac TiVo if they want.

    12. Re:Go for it! by desmodromic · · Score: 5, Funny


      it's "sole purpose", dumb-ass.

      otherwise, great post.

    13. Re:Go for it! by NoodleSlayer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Weren't the S1 Tivos using PPC chips anyways?

      I wouldn't think it would be that much of a stretch to get the Tivo software working on a Mac with extra hardware for the MPEG-2 encoding and TV Tuners anyways. Not to mention it would probably work very well with the home video strategy Apple is pursuing on their desktops.

    14. Re:Go for it! by milkman_matt · · Score: 4, Funny

      Buying TiVo gives them a running start. They can always call it the Apple TiVo or the Mac TiVo if they want.

      or the iVo!

    15. Re:Go for it! by Mr.+Spleen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The TiVo interface? It's impressive for a consumer electronics product, but nothing special by Apple standards. Presumably, Apple would want to roll their own, as they did for iPod.

      Apple didn't roll the iPod interface entirely on their own. The first iPods had, in the About section, a mention of a company called Pixo. Pixo was developing an OS for mobile phones or some such thing, and Apple came along and had them retool it for use on the iPod. Since then Apple has brought iPod OS development in-house, but it's important to remember where it started.

      That being said, Apple didn't consume Pixo, just one of their products and some of their employees. And TiVo is much, much bigger than Pixo in terms of company size and brand recognition.

      Here's where I go some of the info for this post: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/ 08/16/BUGTG878AR1.DTL

      Mr. Spleen
    16. Re:Go for it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      it's dumbass, dumbass.

    17. Re:Go for it! by Nonoche · · Score: 2, Informative

      being French, catorce sounded very close to quatorze to me (14 in french), so I had this figured out pretty much. You know what, I think it's done ON PURPOSE.

      Now, that will surely get you thinking and loving that song for the opposite reason you hated it before.

      which is pretty lame IMHO ;)

    18. Re:Go for it! by biglig2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hey, if they were going to do that they'd have launched a tiny, cheap, quiet Mac that outputs to HDTVs... oh.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    19. Re:Go for it! by tgibbs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      TiVo comes prepackaged with a million subscribers, partnerships with cable and satellite providers, lots of patents and other IP, engineering expertise, brand name recognition, supply channels and marketing, etc.

      The subscribers have obsolete equipment that won't be able to handle h.264 (MPEG-4), which Apple will need for HD content delivery. Why not sell them an Apple box instead of an Apple/TiVo box when they decide to upgrade? (and they'd be less likely to expect a special deal for being "loyal subscribers")

      There are no partnerships with cable providers. Their only partnership with satellite providers is DirecTV, who is phasing them out for a home-grown DVR.

      Apple doesn't need more brand name recognition

      Developing from scratch would take what, a year minimum? These boxes have to be solid. You can't just throw MythTV into a system and start shipping.

      Any viable system will have to support the CableCard 2.0 standard, which coincidentally won't be ready for a year, minimum. So Apple has plenty of time to develop its own DVR.

    20. Re:Go for it! by d34thm0nk3y · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ihat is probably because catorce is 14 but in Spanish.

  2. Right... by atezun · · Score: 5, Funny

    And mysteriously my TiVo no longer skips those retina burning iPod commercials

    1. Re:Right... by SilentChris · · Score: 4, Funny

      Aww, com'on. Admit it. You had fun guessing those guys were U2. It took my wife 6 repeated viewings to figure that out (and it took my grandmother one viewing to spout "Why on earth would that girl twirl her hair around like that? She's going to get whiplash!")

    2. Re:Right... by Patik · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think it's time you move out of your grandmother's house so you and your wife can have your own place.

  3. Maybe it's going here by loid_void · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Most have seen these pictures.

    --
    Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
    1. Re:Maybe it's going here by MyDixieWrecked · · Score: 4, Informative

      dude, thos pictures have already been confirmed fakes. You can see that it's just a white cardboard box with a color-laserprint top and front and ports...

      heh.

      --



      ...spike
      Ewwwwww, coconut...
    2. Re:Maybe it's going here by SamBeckett · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think Apple could come up with a better name than "iHome"; that is retarded in the strictest short-yellow bus sense possible. Now if you excuse me, I have to go type some things up in iWork while listening to my iPod which is powered by iTunes. iRule.

    3. Re:Maybe it's going here by bsharitt · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why would they make a Tivo out of a cardboard box?

    4. Re:Maybe it's going here by wfeick · · Score: 2, Funny

      It'll be called the tPod.

  4. Figures by Walker2323 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If anyone can figure this one out it's Apple. Tivo is an amazing product, it just needs to be managed properly. Apple seems to be pretty good at that these days.

    1. Re:Figures by salemlb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      More importantly, Apple has the sizable cash reserve to prop TiVo up until a way can be found to keep the device from losing money. iMovie store a possibility there. On the other hand, why would Apple want to take on a company that is losing money? Does TiVo have any IP that Apple needs? Any engineers that Apple wants to hire but can't pry away from TiVo? If all Apple is going for is a good PVR device for some future Mac... why not leverage your own brand and build your own? Apple has the tech and the cash to do it... do they really need TiVo for a mere PVR?

  5. In my day... by hazman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Apple was the fish to be eaten, not the fish to eat.

  6. the little "i" thing by TWX · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, at least the TiVo service already somewhat goes with the current Apple naming scheme...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  7. Digital hub by caryw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This would make sense as it would fit in with their "digital hub" philosophy. My only question is how would they integrate it with their existing product line?
    iPodTV anyone?
    --Fairfax Underground: Where Fairfax County comes out to play

  8. Mac Tivo? by CTO1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Great. Now my Tivo will play even fewer games.

    1. Re:Mac Tivo? by daeley · · Score: 5, Funny

      Great. Now my Tivo will play even fewer games.

      Wait till you see the one-button remote control. ;)

      (I kid because I love.)

      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    2. Re:Mac Tivo? by tgibbs · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wait till you see the one-button remote control.

      It already has one. Much in the Mac spirit, virtually all TiVo functions can be accessed just with the directional pad and the single select button. Most of the other buttons are just optional shortcuts.

  9. I wish by JHromadka · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not sure if the bandwidth requirements are there yet, but it would be an interesting proposition. iPod::iTMS, TiVo::iMVS (iMovie Video Store). Given TiVo's crapping on the Mac lately by not supporting AAC and no Mac support for TiVo2Go, I think this is purely wishful-thinking on the analyst's part.

    --
    "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
    1. Re:I wish by protohiro1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It isn't that big of a reach. People forget that iTunes started with an aquisition: Soundjam MP. Why start from scratch with a set top box when someone else has done most of the grunt work? Given that Tivo runs on linux PPC and MIPS (series I & II) I would imagine the code is fairly portable. And getting it to run on darwin would likely be fairly trivial. If Tivo is a good buy Apple can really save money and time to market by aquiring them.

      --
      Sig removed because it was obnoxious
  10. I like the part about "cheaper" by TuballoyThunder · · Score: 2, Funny
    Analysts said that Apple's focus on its immensely successful iPod digital music player would probably preclude it from going after money-losing TiVo, whose growth strategy has been questioned due to the rise of cheaper DVRs being deployed by cable TV providers.
    If Apple did buy TiVo, the price differential would no longer be an issue--everybody expects to pay the Apple premium!
  11. Apple Product Cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Saw funny run-down of the Apple product cycle in someone's sig today. This cracked me up.

  12. Ready, Set... by kromozone · · Score: 2, Funny

    Let the wild speculation begin! I predict the iMovie store will play an integral part in this along with the new chip-based 3ivX encoder, and the cell processor system, and some sort of robot sent back from the future. Oh my!

  13. Snide Remark by ewhac · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Frankly, I'm not really interested in paying $699.00 for a TiVo in translucent blue plastic.

    Besides, it doesn't seem all that great a fit. TiVo is based on Linux, and Apple has spent the last half decade working on Mach/BSD. "Apple-izing" the TiVo would take an enormous amount of parallel engineering, during which time no new TiVo products would come out.

    It's almost a cool idea, but I don't see it working.

    Schwab

    --
    Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
    1. Re:Snide Remark by Moofie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Call me crazy, but based on the last few financial quarters, I'm guessing that Steve jobs has a better handle on his business than you do. If he does this deal, it's going to be because he thinks he can make it work.

      WTF is up with the blue plastic crack? How many current Apple products come in blue plastic?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:Snide Remark by the+pickle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OK, let's think about this. They could take the custom TiVo software and port it to Mac OS X in what, a month? That, by the way, includes the time to write a nice Aqua front-end.

      After all, as you so astutely pointed out, TiVo runs Linux, and Mac OS is based on BSD. The two are far more similar than different.

      I think the "analyst" -- and I use that term very loosely -- is demonstrating the very definition of "wishful thinking," but you're insane if you think an Apple TiVo would cost $200 more than a Mac mini, come in blue plastic, and take a year to get to market just because of some trivial software differences.

      p

      --
      In Korea, long hair is for old people!
    3. Re:Snide Remark by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1) Why would a TiVo need to run on OS X?
      2) Why would it be difficult to port the actual PVR software to OS X?
      3) Why would it cost you $699?
      4) Why would it be in blue plastic?

      I suspect it would cost $499 and come in a Mac mini shaped box as additional software, and it would integrate with some kind of media software, like iTunes, and use Rendezvous to stream it across the network to all your Macs/PCs, and it would be compressed in H.264

      --

      GPL Deconstructed
    4. Re:Snide Remark by Zorilla · · Score: 2, Funny

      3) Why would it cost you $699?

      The answer probably involves a sentence ending in, "you cocksmoking teabaggers," but I'm not going to go there.

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
  14. A use for the Mac Mini by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There were and have been all sorts of rumours going round that the Mini was aimed at this kind of usage.

    Could mae a lot of sense - it would look pretty nice next to a tv.. with a wireless controlloer of some sort.. could be a very nice package.

    How do you think apple's FairWatch (or whatever they choose to call it) would end up looking like?

  15. options by loid_void · · Score: 2, Insightful
    the popular canned options

    Shouldn't that be "unpopular" canned options?

    --
    Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
  16. Apple marketshare by vistic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I like to see Apple becoming a more acknowledged and respected brand... since someday I hope more people can enjoy how much better an experience using Mac OSX is compared to Windows.

    We all know Apple is leading in MP3 players.

    And we all know Apple has about 2% marketshare when it comes to computers. What I don't think I've ever seen though is a marketshare breakdown for just laptops. I only know one person who has a Mac on his desktop at home... but in my classes (computer science majors) I'd say about half the laptops are iBooks or PowerBooks... and I see perhaps an even greater percentage when I go into the library where the majors are more mixed. (And yet there's always a university Mac station free even when all the Windows PCs are taken and have a queue)

    I know Macs are unpopular for desktops (never mind how many companies buy Windows desktops straight from Dell, that must REALLY count against Apple there)... but I have a hunch they're doing very well in the laptop arena.

  17. Alternatively... by Chordonblue · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Or how would you like to ride in an aircar to your destination, or 'micro-wave' all of your food?

    As usual, good ideas never live up to the reality and the problem here isn't so cut and dried. CONTENT is the issue. All I see Apple gaining is the TiVO name (which in and of itself isn't a bad thing). Content suppliers are the ones who will have to meet consumers halfway and if what's been going on with the DMCA, Broadcast Flag, and other nonsense, I don't see this changing.

    Now... If Apple decides to take chances and 'loophole' solutions to let their consumers do what they want with the content - THAT would be interesting. So far, it appears the consumer electronics industry as a whole is rolling over when challenged by the likes of the RIAA and MPAA.

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
    1. Re:Alternatively... by tgibbs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Content suppliers are the ones who will have to meet consumers halfway and if what's been going on with the DMCA, Broadcast Flag, and other nonsense, I don't see this changing.

      Actually, Steve Jobs might be the one guy who can do this. Remember, he's not just a potential DVR manufacturer, he is also, through Pixar, a content producer himself. So as he did with iTunes, he may well be able to work out a DRM scheme that is acceptable to the industry, yet not unacceptable to the average consumer.

    2. Re:Alternatively... by JPriest · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is a reason that almost every time you see a computer in a movie it is a mac. Apple has a good relationship with the movie industry.

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    3. Re:Alternatively... by Kesh · · Score: 2, Interesting
      As usual, good ideas never live up to the reality and the problem here isn't so cut and dried. CONTENT is the issue

      Hello? iTunes Music Store on your TiVO, anyone? Not to mention if Apple starts selling music videos or other video content via iTMS...

    4. Re:Alternatively... by eraserewind · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So what you are telling me is that a guy that already has one hugely successful intertwined music device and digital music content sales system up and running would be unable to get anything done at all for a different type electronic content?

    5. Re:Alternatively... by Chordonblue · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Jobs might stand the best chance at succeeding, certainly - but it will also come at some sort of price. My guess is - YOU will be the one paying it in the form of protected content, or limited types of content being available.

      There is a reason why some music is not yet available on iTunes. Every company wants to own the online portion of this business and Apple - while they may be the biggest - is certainly not the only one. And we haven't even gotten to fighting with the big movie houses. You think Sony's Pictures division is going to be interested in supporting someone else's standard? I don't think so. 'Spiderman' is on it's way to a PSP near you but I'll be it would be a LONG time indeed before Jobs would be allowed to sell it.

      What makes DVD ubiquitous is the fact that you can find tons of content of every type for it, and know that it will play on your player. TiVO has built a business on a relatively open platform - the user's cable tv.

      I'm just not convinced that Apple needs TiVO to do 'iVids' or ultimately what this will get them.

      --
      "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
    6. Re:Alternatively... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Okay, lets ignore the GIANT divide between PC and TV which Apple has tried to bridge before with its TV Mac or whatever that thing was.

      Apple would not only get the name but the familiar and excellent Tivo interface/software. This includes the familiar and excellent Tivo remote. Sure, upside down it looks like a, ahem, little black dildo, but other than that its probably the best remote design out there. They also get Tivo's customer base and a chance to build upon a well-known brand.

      Lastly, they also get all that sweet, sweet tv datamining. The data tivo collects makes the Neilson system look like 1950's technology. Apple could better resell or use this information than tivo currently does. Sounds weird? Not any weirder than Apple being the largest online digital music seller and mp3 player producer.

      There's a lot to tivo Apple can build on. If apple wants to bridge the TV/PC gap then this looks like a smart move.

    7. Re:Alternatively... by godless+dave · · Score: 2, Funny

      Apple would not only get the name but the familiar and excellent Tivo interface/software. ...and charge 20% more for it.

      --
      "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." -
    8. Re:Alternatively... by 16384 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      besides the fact that Apple computers actually look good :)

    9. Re:Alternatively... by anonicon · · Score: 2, Funny

      "and charge 20% more for it."

      Hey there Mister, you missed a zero! No Tivo for you! One year!

    10. Re:Alternatively... by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, Jobs is a salesman; a salesman who lead a company to producing the first Unix easy enough for your proverbial grandmother to use. Maybe he's not an engineer, but he's smart enough to listen to engineers and come away with something useful. He's not a movie director, but he's smart enough to listen to a movie director and come away with something useful.

      This puts him way ahead of most the CEO pack. His repertoire of leadership practices extends beyond posturing and playing power games with his subordinates, although he certainly does those things well enough.

      You may rightfullly despise Jobs' personal style with respect to his subordinates (as I do), but at this late date it's pretty clear he's not some empty suit. In particular, he is smart enough to understand the strategy of enlightened self interest. In that respect, his ties to the entertainment industry give him the credibility that walking in their shoes and talking their language brings.

      So a Tivo/Apple marriage could potentially be a watershed event in the whole DRM affair.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    11. Re:Alternatively... by I_M_Noman · · Score: 3, Funny
      it's pretty clear he's not some empty suit
      Or in his case an "empty turtleneck".
    12. Re:Alternatively... by schtum · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sure the TiVo apologists will emerge soon to defend their baby to the death.

      Okay, I'll bite. TiVo collects anonymous statistics. The annual "most-replayed Super Bowl moment" press release is a marketing gimmick. It makes the handful of people who still don't know what TiVo is sit up and say "wow, I wish I could do that."

      Sure, there's the potential for them to connect those statistics to customer names and sell it to advertisers, but TiVo has built a solid reputation for being a company, like Google, that "gets it". They earned our trust years ago when they turned a blind eye to hacking, and they've done an admirable job of walking the line between customer satisfaction and entertainment industry lawsuits.

      Let's put this in context. Google issues a press release every year about their Zeitgeist site. Are you upset that they keep statistics on top queries? Does it worry you that every search you do can be traced back to your IP address? Are you outraged that this info may be used to build databases for Google Suggest?

      If so, then put your tinfoil hat back on and let's agree to disagree.

    13. Re:Alternatively... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow, imagine that. Nobody is 100% perfect.

      Please complain about Jobs' success when you run a multinational corporation with hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue.

    14. Re:Alternatively... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The main reason us Tivo zealots (as you put it) are not upset about the data mining is becasue Tivo is up front about the data they collect and how it is to be used. They also have a reputation for actually following thier privacy policy.

      The last reason we are happy with the data collection is that we hope it will help keep good shows instead of the constant flood of crap.

    15. Re:Alternatively... by hawk · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, they wouldn't.

      It's a contractual issue, and they *can't*. They've deliberately set up theri agreements this way.

      This was actually litigated in another context a couple of years ago. A compy (etoys? itoys?) had pledged that if you provided your email, it would never be released to any third party under any circumstances. The compnay found itself in bankruptcy, and other companies tried to buy the list. The privacy conditions were upheld. (ISTR that in the end, Disney bought it out to destroy the list or some such).

      hawk

    16. Re:Alternatively... by geoffspear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's hardly going to take bullying to get someone to distribute Pixar's films. Unless Cars is the biggest flop in the history of cinema, any studio would be foolish to not want to be associated with Pixar.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    17. Re:Alternatively... by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yep it could be a big win. ITunes for Movies. You download them to your IEntertainment Center and watch them on your TV, Computer, or Ipod Video. It is all too scary. Apple my be the one that beats out Microsoft. I for one will not welcome our new Apple overlords anymore than I welcome our current Microsoft overlords.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    18. Re:Alternatively... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ever since Steve Jobs took over, I have pumped $$$ into iPods, iTunes and accessories. And I have never bought an Apple product before. Tivo or not, I give him alot of credit for the company's success.

    19. Re:Alternatively... by tgibbs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You think Sony's Pictures division is going to be interested in supporting someone else's standard? I don't think so. 'Spiderman' is on it's way to a PSP near you but I'll be it would be a LONG time indeed before Jobs would be allowed to sell it.

      Yes, it's probably just coincidence that the President of Sony appeared on stage with Jobs at the last MacWorld. He probably was just passing by and thought he'd stop in to say "Hi."

    20. Re:Alternatively... by Virtual+Karma · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought this is about business and not about preferences

      --
      fuvoo: watch something
  18. The discussions went something like... by Mr.+Cancelled · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "You see we have this new computer that we think would be a nice machine to power a familys media needs... It'll handle DVD's, CD's, mp3's, and a ton of other formats. And it's small! A family could tuck is away somewhere our of the way, and control everything through say a Bluetooth enabled remote. And did I mention it's quiet? You could hear a pin drop with it running a foot away from you".

    "Of course it would also nice if we could somehow integrate some PVR-like capabilities into our system... Time shifting and the like... Well say, that's what you boys do, now that I think about it. Look... You could sell media boxs for the next few years, until the cable companies, and the satellite companies put you out of business, Or... You could join up with me, and we can change the world!"

  19. Tivo + Airport Express = Sweet. by newdamage · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If Apple were to do this and buy Tivo, all they'd have to do is integrate the airport express hardware into a tivo and you'd have a very nice way to wireless stream audio and video to your tv from your computer as well as still having a great DVR. I'd also like to see what Apple could do to possible improve the Tivo UI.

    Why would this work for Apple? Yes, Tivo is getting hammered by the big cable companies, but Apple has never needed market share to succeed, if they make a nice box to fix in the home threatre cabinet then the Apple hoardes will follow.

    --
    ce n'est pas un Sig.
  20. Apple better off on there own by piltdownman84 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Really, why would Apple want Tivo? Last I heard tivo was starting to fall on hard times.

    Far better off just making their own PVR software. You can already hack together a pretty nice PVR using a Motorola DCT-6200 and a Mac. see here : http://macteens.com/more.php?id=410_0_1_0_C

    The only reason Apple might want tivo is to leverage themselves somehow into the way that cable/satellite/ip content is distributed, just to block M$ push. Maybe i'm missing something but I don't see how buying tivo would help much if any with this.

    That said I would love to see a nice Mac Mini DVR from Apple. That said if they don't make one, not too hard to make one yourself.

    I, for one, welcome our iPippen overlords

    1. Re:Apple better off on there own by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 2, Interesting
      There aren't many brand names that have tuned into generic verbs. "Tivo" is one of them. It already has a lot of clout and a fanatical base. Apple knows how to live on clout and a fanatical base.

      Maybe they're holding out until the stock price drops lower before they buy. The answer to your question is that Apple is buying the brand, and for cheap. They also probably have some internet-to-Tivo movie distribution scheme in mind. This could be big.

      One more thing: You meant "their" not "there". Please don't ever, ever screw this up again. This is how puppies get kicked.

    2. Re:Apple better off on there own by jalefkowit · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Really, why would Apple want Tivo? Last I heard tivo was starting to fall on hard times.

      Yeah, Apple would never base a product on tech they got by buying a company that had fallen on hard times.

      That's why when it came time to design OS X, they made sure to start by buying a thriving, market-leading company with tons of customers: NeXT! :-)

      --

      Read my blog.

  21. Imagine if this was Microsoft... by MSFanBoi · · Score: 2

    Note that most people are rather positive about this.... Imagine if it was Microsoft purchasing Tivo...

    1. Re:Imagine if this was Microsoft... by Snuggly_Soft · · Score: 3, Funny

      ...I would be psyched because it would mean tivo wins. I've never seen a BSOD in hi-def. I look forward to it.

    2. Re:Imagine if this was Microsoft... by MSFanBoi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft supports some open source as well. They simply have a different business model than most OSS projects do. If Apple supported OSS why is MacOS X still a closed OS? Just because Apple is a unix based OS, why does that make them better cross-compatibility? Microsoft's OS's work well in Apple, Unix & Linux based environments. I've had no problem working with all three in a Windows environment at all. No recoding needed.

  22. My Tivo Sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Tivo fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Tivo (a revision 3) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 minute show from one machine to another. 20 minutes! At home, on my MiniITX running MythTV, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Tivo, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

    In addition, during this program transfer, the Channel Guide will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even the media player software for the PC is straining to keep up as I type this.

    I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Tivos, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Tivo that has run faster than its Wintel counterpart, despite the Tivo's faster Linux architecture. My ReplayTV with 8gigs of HD runs faster than this machine at times! From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the Tivo is a superior machine.

    Tivo addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Tivo over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.

    (Word to the mods.)

  23. Cue the obvious comment by quantaman · · Score: 2, Funny

    So it would be iTiVo then?

    --
    I stole this Sig
  24. Perfect Match by MustEatYemen · · Score: 4, Funny

    Misery Loves Company.
    Wonder when Apple will pick up BSD cause that's been dying forever, oh wait.

  25. Mac mini is the next TiVo unit? by Linuxathome · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A cursory glance certainly highlights pros of an Apple/TiVo merger:

    1. Mac mini can be a TiVo unit (just use the S-Video out adapter for your TV set). Although it'll need a TV card (wish they'd come out with something like the Hauppauge Nexus-S satellite TV card).
    2. Next generation iPod Photo will probably be iPod Video with content that can be transferred from your TiVo unit (the Mac mini) to your iPod Video portable unit.
    3. Apple is probably not happy with just distributing music media (via its iTunes store) but is looking to the future to also provide downloadable video content via an "iVideo" store--what better way to do that than to buy the TiVo customer base and offer them this content.
    4. Apple can ensure that the saved video content has the right digital stamps (a la .AAC but for video) to restrict transfer of video to approved "devices" such as other TiVo units or portable accessories.

    The one downside I see in this merger is that Apple will probably concentrate less and less on the service of "timeshifting" (i.e. drop it entirely), unless they can ensure that users have a right to that material. READ: unless the bigwigs of TV land is happy about how Apple handles digital rights management of timeshifted/saved content. Although timeshifting and saving media for later viewing is currently acceptable, the logical path that this technology leads to, is the ability to share that content or make it portable--something that is not yet acceptable among Hollywood and the TV networks.

    --
    Linux at home
    1. Re:Mac mini is the next TiVo unit? by fiftyfly · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Although it'll need a TV card
      How about a firewire adapter....and when people are actually buying this stuff an onboard apater on the next not-quite-so-obviously-an-adapted-ibook-mini in, say, a year.
      Next generation iPod Photo will probably be iPod Video
      How about a bluetooth enabled iPod (plus bluetooth enabled airport express) that can be used as a remote for thie iTiVO
      --
      "Sanity is not statistical", George Orwell, "1984"
    2. Re:Mac mini is the next TiVo unit? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Informative

      One thing some have noticed is that there is an annoying flickering black stripe near the bottom of the screen with TV-out. I've seen it in my mini, and it was posted on BYODKM.net. I guess not everyone gets this. For DVI-out, I guess it's not a problem but I don't have anything with DVI in.

    3. Re:Mac mini is the next TiVo unit? by ek_adam · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sony has made TiVo boxes before. Sony's chairman was onstage at the MacWorld Expo keynote. Perhaps there is a planned Apple-Sony-TiVo box that they weren't quite ready to reveal at the show.

      Simplest case, a Sony-made companion box for the Mac Mini, call it MacTiVo. Firewire to the Mac Mini, full set of A/V connections to your other A/V components.

      More complex, and less likely. A Sony-made Mac Mini Plus - Tivo & Macintosh features all in one box.

      Far fetched. Mac Mini Super - TiVo & Macintosh features all in one box plus docking for your iPod with video transfer to the iPod.

      An HDTV DirecTiVo is $800-$1000 nowadays. A smoothly integrated MacTivo capable of HDTV priced at $400-$500 would sell like...like...like iPods!

  26. You probably mean H.264 by bubba451 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Also, given Apple's video compression technologies such as Pixlet would make ideal means for encoding video for later replay, say on the plane or some such downtime.

    I'm picking nits here, but Pixlet would actually be a terrible technology for this application. Pixlet sacrifices compression rate for the ability to do frame by frame advances. Great for an editor; not so great if you just want to watch video.

    H.264 (aka AVC), however, would be terrific for this, since it's designed to scale all the way from HD to cellphone resolution.

  27. Maybe they should buy Audi as well by zaxios · · Score: 2

    (Concerning the uniqueness of having a little "i")

  28. Ob. Family Guy by Zorilla · · Score: 2, Funny

    Peter: "No, that says 'Audi' - the "T" is silent!"

    --

    It would be cool if it didn't suck.
  29. Debt by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Doesn't TiVo have a huge amount of debt? While their product may be interesting, I am under the belief that if Apple were to purchase Tivo, it would mean also having to acquire that debt--whereas, if anything, if Apple just purchased the rights to the TiVo software (to run on a mini, etc) they don't have to take on that debt too.

    What does Apple gain from a TiVo purchase vs a license to their tech? If Tivo were making money, there'd be that--but they aren't and their prospects are dim.

    I can see Apple licensing the tech, releasing it for free (for Macs) or as part of their iLife tools--and then charging a sub to hit Apple servers for schedule download. And I think they could do really interesting things with DRM content with OS X as a platform. I guess we'll see.

    --

    --
    $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    1. Re:Debt by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      TiVo doesn't carry a huge amount of debt. It carries just $7.3 million in debt. It has $88.3 million in cash, so the debt is minimal. Unfortunately, TiVo's cash flow is seriously negative, so that $88.3 million might not last them very long.

  30. Jobs, not Apple... by maysonl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    TiVo would seem to fit much better into Steve Jobs's portfolio than into Apple's product line...

  31. Why not TiVo? by KingSkippus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I keep seeing posts about how awful it would be for Apple to buy TiVo because TiVo is losing money and/or subscribers and because of the onslaught of competition from other PVR companies.

    Regardless of its declining status, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't TiVo still the current market leader for PVR products? I mean, if Apple DOES want to quickly get into the PVR market, wouldn't it just make sense to buy the market leader and go from there if possible?

    It just seems to me that even if TiVo is losing money and/or subscribers and/or market share, it would be a hell of a lot easier for Apple to buy it and turn it around than to start from scratch and overtake them with a whole new product line. Besides, TiVo does still have some interesting things going on. Even though the deal is winding down, they still have the DirecTV subscribers, plus the Home Media capabilities (easily integrated with iPods), plus the Netflix deal, and so on.

    Whether or not this actually happens, it seems to me that this would be a sweet deal for both companies, if (and only if) Apple seriously wants to get into the media center market.

    (If Apple does this just to "play around" in the media center market, then it will be an unmitigated disaster for both companies.)

  32. anatomy of a rumor by aka-ed · · Score: 5, Informative
    At 12:21 pm someone calling himself "philipswann" posted the following on the Yahoo board:

    TiVo Sale Rumors -- link
    by: phillipswann 02/23/05 12:21 pm
    Msg: 239226 of 239994

    http://www.swannisez.com/tivorumor022305.html

    (If you look at that link now, it's a rehash of Reuters news concerning the rumor, with no hint that Swann -- who has probably scared himself half to death by singlehandedly moving the market -- started this rumor himself)

    At 3:11 pm, Marketwatch issued a sloppy story that credited an entity called "Inside Digital Media" for cracking the apple buyout story. However, if you visit the site, you will find a blog entry that presents a well-reasoned rationale as to why Apple should buy Tivo, but no hard news at all.

    Subsequently, analyst Steven Kroll, Jr. (whose dad is a senior partner at the same firm) provided the "what we hear on the street" quote that Reuters served up.

    No one seems to have bothered at all to trace this garbage to its specious sources.

    I own some Tivo, and was watching all of this today because I was considering cutting my losses (this dog had lost one-third of its value in a month). Instead, I'm holding on and hoping for a short squeeze, or even the possibility that the rumors will alert video-on-demand competitors to what a bargain TIVO's 3 million subscribers would be for anyone seeking a toehold on the living room.

    So, while it looks to me that the rumor is only that, I wouldn't be too surprised if it became reality.

    --
    I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
    1. Re:anatomy of a rumor by GeorgeH · · Score: 3, Insightful
      One thing: At 11:27AM (EST?) someone on the TiVo Community forums said:
      Rumor of Apple buying TiVo was reported on CNBC this morning, but as far as I can tell this was just some analyst's idea that it would make sense for Apple to buy TiVo, no actual inside information that a deal is in the works...
      --
      Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
    2. Re:anatomy of a rumor by javaxman · · Score: 2, Insightful
      At 12:21 pm someone calling himself "philipswann" posted the following on the Yahoo board: TiVo Sale Rumors -- link by: phillipswann 02/23/05 12:21 pm Msg: 239226 of 239994

      Thanks for that. It's nice to know where this all started, because... well, despite all of the talk and speculation, I don't see how it would make _any_ sense at all for Apple.

      The true advantage TiVo has in the marketplace consist of (1) some patents on DVR tech and concepts, like Season Pass and such, (2) scheduling data to support that. Other than that, their service and tech are pretty straightforward things that almost any company ( or heck, open source project ) could duplicate with a bit of effort. This is why they haven't been bought out by Comcast or someone already ( that and, oh, they've said they don't _want_ to be bought ).

      Anyway, while Steve is full of surprises, I don't really see where TiVo's services fit into Apple's game plan, unless Apple actually does have a handheld video device in it's plans. Personally, I don't think they do - Steve is right; except for the kids in the back of the mini van, I don't know many folks who wants to watch video on a portable. I'm not watching a bunch of movies on my laptop while I'm on vacation. Handheld video players aren't exactly flying off the shelves. Except via cable systems, we aren't yet approaching the bandwidth needed for even standard definition movie downloads at reasonable speeds. The market for TiVo-to-Go isn't really there, short of letting you burn DVDs of broadcast shows, which TiVo-to-Go doesn't do, and that's actually a pretty limited market, too. So why would Apple want to aquire a money-loosing division??

      In short, buying TiVo makes way more sense for Microsoft than Apple, wouldn't it? But really, why would either company want to bother ? Wait a while and TiVo might actually end up being available for cheaper... or roll your own for cheaper... and I say that despite the fact that I frickin' love my TiVo.

      Partnerships, sure, those make sense. But buying TiVo ? Why buy when you can partner and get TiVo-To-Go support for your platform ( the only thing Apple is likely to really be interested in ) for a whole heck of a lot less cash ???

  33. cringely's prediction by qwerbus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    its a very interesting thought to say the least. cringely had me mostly convinced with what he had to say about the mac mini. if this really went down it would be pretty clear evidence that he was right. i honestly think he has to be right, or there's a real chance of people not seeing the light and going with microsoft's IPTV instead. they really did impress me with that at CES.

    --
    the toothpaste is frozen
  34. Re:Strange... by aka-ed · · Score: 2, Informative
    If you wish to create an ITunes-style service for film and video, you need scale. You can't just build it and hope those with the hardware will come.

    The Tivo boxes out there, and Tivo's 3 million subscribers (6x the half-million they had at the beginning of 2003) can provide that scale. The Tivo is a linux box, so compatability with Apple devices will not be a problem.

    Mind you, I believe the rumor is only a rumor, but Tivo does have a lot to offer Apple if it comes about.

    --
    I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
  35. Re:renamed to by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

    No, Tipple.

    "Dad, during the Superbowl halftime, I saw a Nipple on the Tipple!"

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  36. Re:maybe by geekboy642 · · Score: 2, Funny

    And there'll only be one button on the remote.

    --
    Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
  37. You missed the point... by Razzak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You hit on something I didn't realize, but completely missed it yourself as well...

    Tivo's current customers? If they aren't making a profit for TiVo, why would they make one for Apple? Besides, Apple presumably will want to introduce something like the iTunes Music Store for HD video. This will require H.264 [apple.com] for efficient content delivery. Current TiVo hardware can't handle this. Presumably, current TiVo owners will be looking to upgrade in the next few years to a DVR with HD capability. Why shouldn't it be an Apple instead of a TiVo?

    Ding ding ding! To buy music from the iTMS, you have to have a computer. Apple's missing out on selling to non-computer savvy people. It's also missing out on selling to people who don't have good speakers connected to their computers.

    What about enabling TiVo devices to purchase music from the iTMS? Suddenly, Tivo's customers are profitable to Apple where they weren't to TiVo.

  38. Blogs are both good and bad for journalism by Infonaut · · Score: 3, Interesting
    First, thank you for posting this interesting trail of breadcrumbs. The news behind the news shows that reporters are often driven by the desire to scoop the competition, and so don't do their homework properly.

    What's particularly interesting about this saga is that it was started by some random guy who could be your next door neighbor or someone embedded deep in Apple. Who really knows?

    The sloppy reporting that followed was then exposed by aka-ed, who though not "blogging" it in the most exact sense of the term was for all intents and purposes doing just that - taking advantage of a Web forum to shed a little light on how the rumor got started.

    The interplay between traditional "Big Media" players and bloggers is getting weirder and weirder every day.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  39. Rumors for nerds by isotpist · · Score: 2, Funny

    Slashdot: Rumors for Nerds, stuff that we have no reason to think will happen.

  40. You don't do justice to the .torrents and eDonkeys by michaeldot · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'd much rather spend 45 minutes illegally downloading some crap rip that has unnerving commercials for places that don't exist in my area than have a cheap machine do it for me automagically.

    I agree with the gist of your post, but actually many of the "bootleg" TV episodes on BitTorrent and eDonkey are exceptionally high quality.

    Many are recorded direct from HDTV and carefully encoded by real fans (doing virtually professional work as a labor of love). They have clean edits to remove the commercial breaks and good timing to avoid cut-offs at the end.

  41. Pricing? by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One proble I see is Apple has never been one for losing money on hardware to sell a subscription service (not that I tink that is a wrong strategy) and getting people to buy a $300 TiVo box would be a hard sell.

    For bette ror worse, peopl will ocmpare them to $50 VCRs and think - $300 Why? Plus $12 a month? No way.

    That makes it hard to get th market share needed to sustain it in the long run. Sure, TiVo does a lot more, but you need to convince the average consumer, not a /.'er. TiVo's recently were in the $50 neighborhood at Best Buy, which brings them to the impulse price.

    TiVo is not exactly a household name, and I don't see Apple changing it's business model to sell them. After all, we don't see cheap 40G iPods to sell iTunes.

    OTOH, Apple could want some critical technology and buy TiVo to get it, then kill the service. Jobs is pretty ruthless with things he didn't invent, witness the newton, and some he did. Is TiVo NeXT?

    OTOOH, Appple has some great hardware engineers, and maybe they could come up with a TiVo Shuffle.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    1. Re:Pricing? by Anita+Coney · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right now people are buying Mac Minis in massive quantities at 500 bucks. I would think that IF Apple bought Tivo, Apple would simply turn the Mac Mini into a Tivo device.

      So people would have to buy the hardware outright. They'll probably get a one year subscription for free. Then pay monthly after that.

      You can't really compare Apple products to mere VCRs and DVD players. Apple does a fantastic job at selling highly priced hardware to people willing to pay. In other words, Apple's version of Tivo would not be built or marketed for every tom, dick, and harry who shops at Wal-Mart.

      BTW, "TiVo Shuffule" Fucking hilarious!

      --
      If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    2. Re:Pricing? by gozar · · Score: 2, Insightful
      So people would have to buy the hardware outright. They'll probably get a one year subscription for free. Then pay monthly after that.

      Or Apple will just require a .Mac subscription to get the program guide data.

      --
      What, me worry?
  42. AAPL by Refrag · · Score: 2, Informative

    Apple's stock isn't up on this rumor. Apple's stock is just up as of late.

    --
    I have a website. It's about Macs.
  43. Re:TiVo and Netflix will make a good combo! by The+Bod · · Score: 2, Informative

    Tivo and Netfix announced a deal the day before I bought my Tivo. Perhaps this is why Apple might be interested in Tivo?

  44. Re:Dear God by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Funny

    That would be fine for you, but some of us have squeaky snakes.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  45. It just makes sense. by mtaco · · Score: 3, Informative

    Too bad its probably not true, given the history of the rumor above.

    My 1st generation TiVO is already a box that sits in my living room, connected to my stereo, from which I could play songs/videos pulled off my hard drive. An I'm running Mac OS X. Considering I ended up buying a second device to do just the music piece of this http://www.slimdevices.com/ if Apple came out with a new TiVo that did this plus movies, I'd have to seriously consider upgrading my TiVO.

    Its inevitable and obvious that Apple was going to eventually build a device to serve as the home entertainmentcomputer connection. For one thing, Steve Jobs said so about 8 years ago. They already have the codec to use for the video portion: H.264/AVC http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/index.html , and obviously they've also done the music portion.

    Whether or not they do an iVideos store is probably moot in the end. TiVo is a success just doing broadcast TV, the real growth would be becoming the defacto standard for digital cable and satellite. TiVO hasn't really persued this, but I expect Apple might, there's nothing sacred about the settop box business, and Apple has already show willingness to license iPod to other vendors like HP/Motorola.

    Nor does iVideos require broadband. DirecTV is already marketing cheap movies to PVR owners like myself. Come to think of it, even without broadband you could easily sell a service that was satellite based and offered you a menu of 100 different movies a month. After all, over pay per view, I already have a menu of about 25 movies/month, and the only reason its only 25 is because they repeat the movie all day long. With a Tivo, they would only have to broadcast a movie once.

    Hmmm... The TiVo already has a modem, so it could connect to a master server, order any movie from a long list of movies, then get the movie downloaded in one burst via the satellite. Since multiple people could mooch off the same movie download, it might be possible to have a list of 1000 movies available. If you picked an obscure movie, you might have to wait 24 hours for a download slot to open. It would be inconvenient, but if new releases were instantaneous (since you could start in the middle of any running download), its proabably acceptable.

    So say $500 for a new box that plugs into my existing video crap, lets me download from a list of 1000 movies over my satellite dish, replaces my sqeezebox for music (one less thing), stores all my DVDs for easy playback (less crap in the living room). In a word, hmm...

    TiVO couldn't do it alone, but Apple and TiVO could do it together.

  46. An "A-ha!" moment? by ProsperoDGC · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Microsoft has said many times that it wants Windows at the center of everyone's digital lifestyle, as the hub for digital content and family life. At the same time, Apple has put strong stakes in this ground, with the iPod, the iTMS, and iLife (iPhoto, GarageBand, iMovie, etc.). In effect, Apple is way ahead of Microsoft in making the digital lifestyle a reality. What they lack is the central hub.

    Apple has been trying to make Mac OS X that hub by leveraging the success of the iPod/iTMS. They've even made it easy for Windows users to stream music from one system to another through the iTunes Sharing feature, which is completely cross-platform and so easy to use anyone can get it working in 5 minutes. But Mac OS X is tied to Apple's core products -- Apple computers. And therein lies the problem. Only geeks have computers in their family rooms connected to their TVs.

    Tivo represents the only independent, open-platform consumer entertainment DVR vendor that's had any degree of longevity and success in the marketplace. And for that reason alone, it's an attractive target for Apple.

    By making Tivo into the Apple-branded/powered equivalent of the Windows Media Center -- with Apple's cache and technical props associated with it -- Apple will have captured the cornerstone of "the digital lifestyle": the family room and TV. And this will succeed because Apple has already seeded the key "spokes" of the digital hub lifestyle, with iPod, iTunes, and iMovie. Other vendors don't have these assets, and the barriers to acquiring them are high.

    To be sure, Jobs' ownership of a major content producer will be a boon should he decide to create an iLife Video Store (or whatever). But that's several steps away. The game is not video. The game is about capturing the high ground -- a ground that Bill Gates cannot buy his way into. (Microsoft has been trying to persuade infrastructure providers, such as cable TV companies, to run their boxes off Windows for years and, from what I can see, he's no further along today than he was five years ago.)

    Microsoft, for its part, needs another market to dominate, soon. Its desktop dominance is under serious threat, which will only become more acute over time. Microsoft has to extend its monopoly, and has been trying to do so by leveraging Windows alone. But it has always relied upon, and will always rely upon, third party hardware producers to adopt its products. Unlike the genesis of Windows, though, Microsoft doesn't have a pre-made marketplace through which it can persuade manufacturers to sign on to their worldview. In other words, Microsoft has to produce a compelling product before it will have the market support which will equate into success for Windows Media Center (and subsequent iterations of this product).

    Apple produces hardware and software. It doesn't need to rely on others to do its heavy-lifting for hardware, and clearly it is successful in this regard. Hardware will never be a core competency for Microsoft; it's always been so for Apple. This has had its downside, of course: their hardware costs more due to simple economies-of-scale (or lack thereof); cross-platform compatibility has sometimes been spotty; and it takes a lot more R&D dollars to execute both innovative hardware and software strategies. But if these fundamental problems can be overcome -- as Apple has largely done by adopting a Unix base for its core OS and by allying its hardware with broadly-used components -- then the chances for long-term success are very good indeed.

    Jobs lost the operating system and hardware battle once. But that was never the war, and to believe it was is simply shortsighted. Furthermore, he's begun the process of renewing that very same battle. But the fundamental point is this: Gates and Jobs, and others like them, want nothing less than dominance of how consumers manage their content. Remember: the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. And that's why Apple should buy Tivo.

  47. Apple can make Tivo Cheaper by Kagato · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apple could help transform Tivo where it needs the most help. Hardware R&D. If there is a company that knowns how to making PowerPC hardware smaller and cheaper it's Apple.

    Take a $499 Mac Mini form factor. Remove the CD-RW, lower the processor speed, and use less expensive single purpose GFX hardware. You'll likely get hardware that is actually sold at cost instead of below cost.

    Add to the mix the fact that you're reseting the company, and can visit media partners you'd previously blown it with.

    Add to the mix being able to add the Tivo Software (Linux on PowerPC) to Mac (BSD-Like on PowerPC).

    Leverage Apples Media and Content distribution services.

    It might just work.

  48. Ask them if they care by Merk · · Score: 2, Informative

    Firstly, most people wouldn't care at all. Secondly, TiVo has been doing it for years, and although the *potential* for them to do evil things exists, it just hasn't manifested itself.

    Having your TiVo spy on you is kinda like having your mom spy on you. Sure, she could potentially embarrass you and do all kinds of other awful things, but you're pretty sure she won't, so you don't bother to hide things from her.

    Besides, if the remote-monitoring bothers you *you can opt out!*

  49. Does Apple even need TiVo? by podperson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What does TiVo do that Apple needs? Anyone who thinks TiVo's video capture capabilities, UI, or ability to download TV timetables automatically represent some kind of magic strategic advantage is smoking something. Apple has all of this now, what they don't have, TiVo doesn't have either.

    The key component missing from TiVo's business model is something Apple has already done with music -- replaced broadcast with play on demand. (This is probably why iPods don't have FM tuners, even though they could be added for insignificant cost -- Steve Jobs/Apple is simply anti-broadcast as a concept. You decide what you download / rip and play, not some random DJ or corporation.)

    Many of the companies Apple cut deals with to make iTunes Music Store possible are the same companies it would have to cut deals with to make Mac Mini Video Store possible.

    TiVo's model in a nutshell: If it gets broadcast, we'll make it easier for you to watch, kind of. But because the legalities are iffy, we'll place some weird artificial restrictions on what you can do with the recorded material. We haven't changed the relationship between the consumer and the content producer -- advertising is still paying for the broadcast, but our profitability is in large part predicated on screwing the advertiser.

    iTMS model translated to video: If you own it, we'll let you RIP it (or at minimum play it for you). If you don't own it, we'll let you download it for a reasonable fee (and maybe burn it). You pay for the content, not the advertiser, and not your cable company. You get exactly what you want, when you want it, not a rough approximation with ads you can kind of skip over.

  50. just a matter of who an when by badronnie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i'd say there's a near 100% chance apple is going to try to do for video what iTunes Music Store did for audio-- its just a question of how and when. i imagine the tivo hardware as an add-on to the Mac mini. sort of turn your mac mini into the ultimate digital hub and media center. the price would have to come down some, but the solution fits with apple's past. the only thing missing is software. apple never realeases new hardware without mastering it via software. so this is only 50 percent of the rumor... organizing and interfaceing with the content and the rest of your media sources... that's the key.

  51. Pick on Mikey! by rjung2k · · Score: 2, Informative

    Unless Cars is the biggest flop in the history of cinema, any studio would be foolish to not want to be associated with Pixar.

    <Insert your own Michael Eisner joke here>

    For those who don't get it, Eisner predicted that Finding Nemo would be a box-office bomb. But what do you expect from a guy who greenlighted Home on the Range?

    --

    --R.J.
    Electric-Escape.net

    1. Re:Pick on Mikey! by geoffspear · · Score: 2, Interesting
      To be fair, at least Disney (and Dreamworks, to a lesser extent, if they're offered the rights) have a real motive for not wanting to distribute Pixar's films for anything less than the huge portion of the profits they're getting now. Pixar's movies make Disney's look much worse in comparison.

      Plus Pixar's refusal to make Toy Story 2 a crappy direct-to-video movie calls in to question Disney Animation's whole business plan of making one good movie a decade then turning it into a franchise of bad movies/TV shows. c.f. Lilo & Stitch on TV or Mulan II: The Electric Boogaloo.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
  52. iPod Media Center or ... by saha · · Score: 2

    If Apple could modify the Mac Mini into a PVR (ATI 9200 All-In-Wonder TV) and to have a docking station for an iPod Video-to-Go using MPEG-4/AVC device they could rename it iPod Media Center or iPod Digital Lifestyle or iPod Home Entertainment. Couple that with an optional iPod RAID, a cheap 4 disk software RAID system with 4x250GB or 4x400GB drive. This could compete with Sony's Vaio Type X. The lack of PVR/DVR functionality is one gaping hole in Apple's digital hub strategy. I can imagine an iPod video device would be useful once people can record the shows they want using Quicktime 7 and watch it on their iPod video. The technology is all there its just up to Apple to tie it all together in an elegant easy to use solution. Which we all know Apple has a panache for.