Allofmp3.com Wins Court Case

remove writes "Gizmodo is running a story from a reader tip that claims that the russian site Allofmp3.com, popular with slashdotters for their user selectable format which had been reported as being under investigation recently has been let off the hook by the Russian DA, becuase of a loophole in russian law which allows users create copies of songs by request. Basically, even though the courts have found their site operator's behavior to be illegal- they can't prosecute because the user dynamically creates copies of songs to be downloaded themselves."

Comments

RIAA Dream Team Lawyers Fail?

[tabkey12]

Is this only the second time an international foray by the RIAA/MPAA groups has failed (the first being the failed prosecution of DVD Jon)?

Still, very real questions about the legality of this service have to remain...

If it's illegal...

[shamilton]

Then why are people paying to download songs? You can get high quality album rips off ed2k for free, and it's just as legit.

The process

[FirienFirien]

Fwict, a clarification of the legality is that 'if you make a copy, it's ok'. ie if you take the original (ie download the file) and DON'T leave a copy behind on the server (!), it's illegal. If you leave the copy on the server, it's legal. Which crazy drunk wrote that law?

good publicity...

[dhbiker]

thank god for the loophole!

But I'm even more grateful for the publicity that Allofmp3 has got, perhaps RIAA and other online music stores will sit up and take note that it is popular because of the freedom it offers and the fair price - its time to give the consumer their freedom back and realise the way to takle the piracy problem is to offer a good service at a resonable cost (and NO $0.99 IS NOT REASONABLE COST, that is the same per track as a CD!)

Re:good publicity...

[Jeff DeMaagd]

The anti-iTunes site I've seen says that "artists" get about twelve to fifteen cents a track from each sale on iTunes. That's actually pretty good if you compare it with how much of the final sale price a build-to-order manufacturer gets for electronics and auto parts.

Re:This is only round one...

[GigsVT]

Come on, you all can't be that naive. Allofmp3 just paid off the right people. If, someday in the future, they no longer pay off the right people, then it will become illegal and able to be prosecuted.

This is the normal way russian law works.

And this is good because?

[turnstyle]

And this is good beacuse a Russian business is making money by selling copies of US (and Euro, etc.) musicians' work, but paying them nothing in return? Is that about right?

Re:And this is good because?

[Overzeetop]

Yes, the artist is too lazy. I mean that in a businss sense, not a personal one. The last time AllofMP3 came up here, someone from a small label posted about how difficult is was to get registered with the Russian law firm which distributed the payments for the songs. Their complaint was that over half the documents were in Russian, and their US phone calls were not returned.

Why didn't they retain a Russian lawyer? Calling them stuipid seems a bit harsh, so I'll settle for lazy.

See my other posts (grossly incorrect about US organizations and pay schemes, as I'm not inthe business) for my thoughts on why this is no different that the US system, save ease-of-use for natives.

As for your question...let's make it closer to the topic: If I start broadcasting your songs on my new FM station and pay my ASCAP (or whoever) fees, and you don't sign up to receive your share - or you don't pick up your check or provide a current address, I'd say you were too lazy to get paid.

Re:Text from Gizmodo:

[nametaken]

Wait, so that means the downloaders are breaking the law? Last I understood, it was legal to purchase your music from allofmp3.com because they had licenced the music, and you can lawfully import anything that you obtained legally. Well, if we didn't obtain it legally now (?), its not legal for import. Does this mean RIAA could sue downloaders here? This has gotten way too confusing.

Oh the irony

[Anita Coney]

Citizens in Russia have more rights than we do!

Re:Oh the irony

[LetterJ]

What's hilarious is that, if you go back 150 years or so, the United States were the ones flaunting the world's copyright laws. Sheet music was being flagrantly copied in the US and British and other European countries were outraged that this upstart country was regarding the theft of sheet music as some sort of 'right'.

An awful lot of the financial build-up of the US was based on disregarding intellectual property law (from the rest of the world) early on.

Re:Oh the irony

[LetterJ]

Sorry, I forgot I was on Slashdot. I'll explain more slowly. Sheet music is 1, as in a singular, example of early American disregard of international standards of intellectual property laws. That 1 example sits inside a trend that took place of things like turning a blind eye toward patent infringement (if the patent was elsewhere), etc.

I used sheet music as my example, because (get this), it was actually relevant to the discussion at hand. Before the advent of recorded music, sheet music and player piano rolls were BIG business and the businesses involved were the RIAA of their time. There was a great uproar about the US just flaunting the rules.

Today (I'm drawing a parallel and wanted to warn you), countries like China, Russia and others that aren't recognizing US and other major IP holding countries' patents, trademarks and copyright are growing very quickly, unfettered by the legal constraints that those systems put in place, *much like the US did*. History is repeating.

At some point, it's likely that, in those countries, the protections will start showing up as one Russian wants protection from another Russian "stealing" his work. Then, eventually, some other countries will step into the "abuser" role.

Re:Text from Gizmodo:

[Have Blue]

This defense doesn't make any sense. There is always a copying process involved in a download, because the song data is being copied in RAM by the HTTP server in order to transmit it to you. The process of deriving the copy from the original media takes place on AllOfMp3's servers, so they could still be held responsible for it if it was illegal.

It just sounds like the article summary is incorrect- the loophole has more to do with the fact that the Russian law in question specifically enumerates the types of media it applies to, and "mp3" is not on the list.

Re:Is this considered "Fair Use" ?

[squiggleslash]

Well, I don't think that's what the article says. In any case, it would be fair turnabout if that were the case - most downloaders have NEVER allowed the fact it's illegal to stop them from downloading... ;-)

Re:Text from Gizmodo:

[jkabbe]

Sure, the RIAA can sue. But that does not mean they would win.

Your analysis seems to result in this conclusion:

If a Russian person bought songs at AllOfMp3 and carried them into this country on a laptop - the next time they played those songs (thereby making a copy in RAM) they would be violating US copyright law.

Here's the problem: often the company that has the right to distribute something in the US is not the company that has the right to distribute that work overseas. So does that mean no one can bring any copyrighted works into the US unless they pay the US copyright holders? Or do they only need to have a "valid" copyright from overseas? If so, WHO decides whether that overseas copyright is valid? If the other government decides whether it is valid, then why am I breaking the law if I pay for a license overseas but don't pay the US license-holder.

Now, of course, this probably won't apply to AllOfMp3.com because you're not actually purchasing a license under Russian law. It's worth thinking about, though.

Re:RIAA has never sued downloaders

[anethema]

Downloading is definately legal in canada. Without a doubt. So is copying your friends cds for personal use.

Re:Text from Gizmodo:

[cpt kangarooski]

What if person A owns the copyright in country A, and person B owns the copyright in country B? Still okay for B to undercut A?

What if the copyright expires or otherwise doesn't apply for our purposes in country C, and ordinary person C starts making copies there, lawfully. Okay for him to undercut A and B?

If you're treating them differently, why? Remember that in each case, only person A can lawfully make copies in A, only person B can lawfully make copies in B, and anyone can make copies in C.

It's certainly an issue worth considering carefully, but I don't think the answer is necessarily as clear cut as you'd like.

Re:Text from Gizmodo:

[Yartrebo]

Big difference there.

If real child porn could be made without harming kids, then it would have to be legal because of the first amendment.

There's no way virtual child porn can hurt kids, so it's legal.

Wise decision if you ask me, since a lot of Anime could easily be considered child porn by US standards.