Terra Soft Offers Linux-booting iPods, FW Drives

Kai Staats of Terra Soft writes "We are pleased to now offer support for bootable iPods and FireWire drives, enabling a highly portable Linux on PowerPC environment." Note that this is about booting a Macintosh into Linux, not running Linux on the iPod.

Comments

Just hardware, no apple OS.

[ClickWir]

Torvald's response came quickly and succinctly. "My main machine these days is a dual 2GHz G5 (aka PowerPC 970) - it's physically a regular Apple Mac, although it obviously only runs Linux, so I don't think you can call it a Mac any more ;)" he said.

Re:Just hardware, no apple OS.

[JabberWokky]

Wine does not work on a non-intel system. It doesn't handle different opcodes, only a different API. There are solutions for running Windows on PPC, both closed and open source, but Wine is not one of them.

--
Evan

Re:Just hardware, no apple OS.

[northcat]

Yes, and that's exactly why WINE Is Not an Emulator. But whenever you say that on slashdot, the language nazis wake up and start giving lectures about why WINE is an emulator. FFS, the WINE developers *themselves* say that WINE is not an emulator.

Re:Just hardware, no apple OS.

[nickos]

Linux has always been designed for the x86 platform first and then ported to other platforms later. That said, PowerPC has a much nicer architecture than x86 (heck, almost anything is better than x86 - the only thing in the x86's favour is that commodity PCs use it). Also, if you're looking at running Linux on a laptop, PPC based machines tend to have a better battery life for their level of performance...

Re:Just hardware, no apple OS.

[DrXym]

Well yes, it is bullshit. Darwine allows you to compile Win32 source and link against Winelib. It does not allow you to run x86 binaries on the PPC. Maybe it will some day but not yet.

Re:Just hardware, no apple OS.

[wooger]

You are smoking crack-

All Apple laptops have piss poor battery life compared to modern Pentium M laptops.

The Pentium M is so much faster than a G4 its embarrassing.

Re:Just hardware, no apple OS.

[0racle]

Macintosh is the hardware. For a good while the OS didn't have a name even, it was just the OS for the Macintosh, and then simply refered to as the Mac's OS and finally formally the MacOS.

Re:Just hardware, no apple OS.

[Anonymous Coward]

It was called the "Macintosh System Software" all the way up to version 7. MacOS 8 was the first time it officially went by that name.

Re:Just hardware, no apple OS.

[i wanted another nam]

That's a good thing, since they stopped calling it titanium when they started calling it aluminum.

Re:Just hardware, no apple OS.

[CritterNYC]

Wow, that's pretty good.

And eleven hours is amazing. How do you get that?

That laptop you mentioned is double the cost of an iBook though.

That Sony VGN-T150 is quite a different animal than anything Apple offers. It uses an Ultra Low Voltage Penitum M running at 1.1GHz. That's how it gets 6 to 11 hours of battery life with the extended-life battery.

The closest you could get with an Apple would be the 12-inch Powerbook with a Super Drive at $1700. The Sony runs between $1900 and $2000. But it's only 3.1 lbs compared to the Powerbook's 4.6 lbs and the battery life it gets is quite amazing. (even compared to the Powerbook's "up to 5 hours")

Of course, we're really comparing apples to oranges here (no pun intended) as these are very different machines for different needs.

You lose....

[Daytona955i]

You must not be very good at the game of bullshit...

From the Darwine FAQ:
Is the Darwin/Mac OS X release of Wine currently able to run Windows executable (.exe)?

No. We are currently working on integrating an x86 emulator in wine in order to run Win32 exe on a PowerPC Box. But on Darwin-x86 a Win32 .exe should run within wine.

Also let's clear up a few things:
Darwin != OS X
Wine != Darwine

Darwin is the open source part of OS X and has been ported to the x86 platform. Darwine is a port of wine to darwin. Darwine will run windows binaries on a x86 system but not a PPC system. Got that?

last to get ports

[SethJohnson]

It's cool that you brought up the port issue. I'll expound on my frustration with linux on PPC...

I ran a webserver on PPC linux (SuSE) for a few years. The SuSE folks did a good job porting all the standard linux apps and packages over from x86. But as I sought to customize my server with special CGI packages that did stuff like photo galleries and log analysis, I would run into roadblocks because necessary libs weren't available in PPC rpms. Sure, I could try to compile them myself, but in most attempts at this, I'd run into all kinds of compile errors for which I have no knowledge of how to troubleshoot.

Eventually I scrapped my PPC server and switched to an old dual Celeron x86 box running Mandrake. It was very nice to have everything readily available for my distro.

At the point that this server dies, I intend to replace it with my antiquated B/W G3 450mhz box. I see more development focusing on Mac OS X PPC than linux PPC as I think there is a significantly larger userbase on Mac OS X than linux PPC. So, unlike mr Torvaldis, I'll probably run my system (server) off Mac OS X at that point. My desktop will remain Mac OS X.

Re:last to get ports

[iamacat]

I hate to say it, but try Gentoo. The initial setup is crazy, but this is the end of dependency problems. You get up-to-date versions of every library, not something distro maintainers neglected for a while. Then in your system configuration file you can disable support for unwanted components, like java or kde, which reduces number of dependencies or potential problems to begin with. Finally, configure can adopt a package to a far wider range of systems, versions and presence/absence of specific software than a binary package can handle.

If you don't specifically need Linux kernel, fink might be an easier option. You get access to the same packages as gentoo without, but setup on top of OSX is trivial. You can still run your server without UI if you want. Edit /etc/ttys and replace loginwindow with getty.

You're speaking of Apple hardware.

[TheLittleJetson]

Saying that a Mac without OS X isn't a Mac just isn't true. There's more to a Mac than software.

Linus' claim is correct. A Mac without OS X is not truly a Mac, as it doesn't offer the full Mac experience. However, that doesn't mean that Apple's hardware is run-of-the-mill. It's quite superb, as you've pointed out, and there are other non-mac examples of this (iPods, Airport Base Stations [I think the express is a really cool product], we've even got a few LaserWriters still in use at my work).

I think this is one of the legitimate reasons why you SHOULD run Linux on a Mac. He's fricken Linus, man! It's hard to do what he does (work on Linux) without using Linux. He's made the choice for real, practical reasons. It frustrates me that several in the slashdot crowd want to run Linux on Apple hardware because they think there's some lame/n00b stigma attached to OS X. I've said it plenty of times before, and I'll say it again: OS X run's the majority of unixoid apps just fine. It's the best-fit for Apple hardware; the level of integration between hardware/software is going to be very difficult to reproduce with Linux, especially on a notebook. Don't make the switch unless you have stuff that needs to be done under Linux that simply CAN NOT be done under OS X...

Honest journalism

[GrouchoMarx]

At least for a change they're not trying to pretend this is a real article instead of a commercial. They're being very obvious that it's an unpaid advertisement. That's an improvement for Slashdot of late.

Sad.

Slow Site - Article Text

[Anonymous Coward]

I N T H E N E W S

Terra Soft Ships Bootable Linux iPods, FireWire drives

Loveland, Colorado -- 9 March 2005 -- Terra Soft Solutions(R), Inc., the leading developer of integrated PowerPC Linux solutions, is pleased to announce support for bootable iPods and FireWire drives, both immediately available from Terra Soft with Yellow Dog Linux pre-installed.

A bootable iPod or FireWire drive contains a full installation of Yellow Dog Linux which can be used as an external, bootable drive. All applications, data, and /home directory information is contained in this palm-sized medium, offering an unprecedented level of portability as users can boot G4 and G5 Apple computers from the iPod or FireWire drive, leaving internal drives untouched.

Bill Mueller, Terra Soft software engineer states, "While the goal of this project was to simply enable bootable FireWire, I took it one step further and incorporated Anaconda, a patched 'parted', and a clever partition resize tool. I just couldn't put the project down. I wanted to be able to install directly to my iPod from the Yellow Dog Install CDs ... now you can do just that."

Terra Soft has created a hybrid Yellow Dog Linux v4.0.1 #1 Install CD that incorporates the changes required to install to an iPod or FireWire drive from the graphical installer. This hybrid is immediately available through YDL.net Enhanced accounts at www.ydl.net.

"Since the day Apple first incorporated FireWire support we have been asked to enable Yellow Dog to install to a FireWire drive. While we would have gladly made this happen sooner, it was in fact a substantial challenge not easily completed. Now complete, no longer does one need to reformat an internal drive, reinstall OSX, and then Yellow Dog. With bootable external devices or the ability to resize an internal drive without reformat, Yellow Dog Linux just became a far more flexible, even more powerful OS," offers Kai Staats, co-founder & CEO.

Now available from the Terra Soft on-line Store are iPods and LaCie brand external FireWire drives with Yellow Dog Linux pre-installed.

Staats continues, "Consider an iPod or pocket FireWire drive the most portable Linux workstation in the world. If there are Macs at your destination, you need only bring your drive and cable, reboot the borrowed computer, hold the Option key, and go. It's simple. It's fast. And it just works."

Terra Soft thanks Bill Fink for his original work that laid the foundation for bootable PowerPC Linux FireWire drives, and Guillaume Knispel for the partition resize tool which became integral in this solution.

About Terra Soft Solutions, Inc.
Terra Soft is a leading Integrated Solutions Provider with proven expertise in the PowerPC architecture and Linux OS platform. As an Apple Authorized Proprietary Solutions Provider and IBM Business Partner, Terra Soft provides turnkey and build-to-order portables, desktop workstations, application and network servers, and HPC clusters. Terra Soft's Y-HPC 64-bit OS and cluster construction suite is widely accepted as the preferred platform for Xserve clusters.

For more information, visit www.terrasoftsolutions.com

IBM and PowerPC are registered trademarks of International Business Machines Corporation. Apple and iPod are registered trademarks of Apple Computer. All other trademarks or registered trademarks are property of their respective owners.

Uh, yeah, sure...

[digitalamish]

In a nutshell they turned an iPod into an external hard drive. Then the Macs will treat it as such and boot to it. Basically they turned a $200+ device* into a $29 USB key.

*unless you get a free one!

Re:Uh, yeah, sure...

[hackstraw]

*unless you get a free one!

Thats easy. Just click on my foe list. about 90% of them are willing to give you a free iPod after they get one first and you pay money (their version of free, not mine) and register for a bunch of spam and other marketing ploys (again, their version of free not mine), and then you are the low man in the pyramid and you have to then sucker others to be the new low people.

Yes, people, if you have a free anything in your sig that is not free, I will foe you and filter you just like I do with my email. I do not like nor do I support spam.

Re:Uh, yeah, sure...

[SeanAhern]

Some people may be missing the point. This is more than just a way to hold a bootable Linux distribution. This is all of your home, third party applications, databases, everything. Rather than merely keeping some of your documents with you (as many do with small USB drives), this contains everything, simply everything you need to do work on your computer. It is your computer, in essence. On my laptop (running Fedora Core), my home directory weighs in at about 16 gigabytes.

Re:Availability?

[Chirs]

Technically, under the GPL they only have to make the code available to their customers, not anyone else.

However, they cannot keep their customers from redistributing the code...

Chris

Re:Availability?

[pete-classic]

3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:

a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

So, they only have to give it to "members" or whomever they provide binaries to.

-Peter

Re:Honest Question

[HiThere]

Gimp works fine under OS X. True, it's an X Window application, but it still works fine...and it tries to hide it's root from naive users.

OTOH, I have a Mac portable that I intend to get properly configured one of these days. (I need to clear a space near an internet connection that has enough headroom to open the case, and get MOL properly set up. Currently it's either Linux OR Mac, I can't boot into Linux and then open a Mac window for a game.)

And THAT's the reason that I have OSX installed. Games and other special features (like airport). But give me the KDE desktop anytime. I find it far superior to the Mac. (Well, it *IS* what I use on my main computer, so perhaps it's just what I'm used to.)

Old world macs don't support OS X (officially)

[johnny cashed]

Of course, Old world macs aren't firewire bootable either. But YDL is very fast on old world macs compared to OS X via Xpostfacto on old world hardware. (which is still good if not aged hardware) I'm currently running OS X on a G3 upgraded Powercomputing clone (thanks to Xpostfacto). at 420Mhz, it is slow compared to YDL on a Beige G3 266. So it is either OS 9 or YDL on old hardware. It is getting harder to get modern web browser features on OS 9.

not the only firewire trick with the firmware

[moosesocks]

the firmware loaded onto macs nowindays is quite impressive in that it can do all sorts of things with firewire. booting off of a firewire device is one of the more tame 'tricks' it can do.

OpenFirmware can also make your mac pretend that it's a firewire hard drive. Connect the mac to another machine (another mac or a PC that can read HFS+ partitions), and boot up the machine while holding down the T key. Before the OS loads, the computer enters target disk mode, and every hard drive attached to that computer appears as a normal firewire device to the other computer.

I don't see why this wouldn't work with an ext3 or ReiserFS partition... it's a VERY useful trick for restoring a trashed system (which in all honsety rarely happens in Mac OS, but is rather common on Windows and Linux if you're compiling your own kernels and such)

this will kill iPods

[a1291762]

Their hard drives aren't designed for booting OSes from. Too much seeking will fry them.

Booting off your iPod is a bad idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

The hard drives in iPods are not meant to handle this type of load. Sure this may be alright if you use install os x or linux on it for an emergency drive but using it for continual use is really a bad idea! The specs of the drive are just not rated for this type of use.

External Firewire Drives Too!

[ryan_fung]

From TFA:
"Terra Soft has created a hybrid Yellow Dog Linux v4.0.1 #1 Install CD that incorporates the changes required to install to an iPod or FireWire drive from the graphical installer. This hybrid is immediately available through YDL.net Enhanced accounts at www.ydl.net."

Now I can play around with Linux on PPC without touching my current setup! Great!

Now the problem becomes: how long before the new ISOs become available to the public?

Re:Portability to the max

[chef_raekwon]

hate to rain on your parade, but you could have just picked up a laptop drive, plugged it into an external USB container, and had the same ability 2 years ago. maybe longer.

Re:Bad idea...

[CarrionBird]

Mine gets quite hot after extended periods of HDD mode. I'd have to mod it for some ventilation before I tried it as a main drive.