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Opera Lays Down Acid2 Challenge

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the compatibility-uber-alles dept.

sebFlyte writes "The CTO of Opera has proposed a new version of the acid test for browser compatibility, and has challenged Microsoft to make IE7 a browser worth having that will do the Web good. He's asked to help from Web designers the world over to build a new page for Microsoft to test IE7 with to make sure it does everything Web designers want it to. "

16 of 499 comments (clear)

  1. Why just microsoft? by MoneyT · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Has anyone (even Opera) managed to create a browser that does what all the web designers want it to do? Does the web designer community have a consensus of what they want the browsers to do?

    --
    T Money
    World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
    1. Re:Why just microsoft? by Pionar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, it's called W3C specifications.

      Like the one for xHTML 1.0. The one that currently has IE in my doghouse is CSS2 support, especially the Box Model. Firefox gets it right. Opera gets it right. But IE gets it totally wrong, forcing web designers to use unsightly hacks to get CSS to behave the same way in IE.

      The web community has always had this consensus, going back to HTML 3.2 and even further back. It's the browser makers that can't seem to come to a consensus, which is ridiculous because the W3C tells you how a user agent should behave.

    2. Re:Why just microsoft? by Pionar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since IE is the standard broswer for computers, isn't being compatable with IE the defacto standard for websites? Therefore shouldn't other browsers conform to MS standards?

      No. Web people have worked very hard to come up with standards (MS is even on committees in some of these areas). Standards make it easier for someone to create something once and not have to worry about what platforms it works on. One of the hardest parts of any web developer's job is to troubleshoot why webapp X won't work in browser Y. Thankfully, IE is pretty much there with the DOM, but CSS support is still lacking, and it's riddled with rendering bugs.

  2. Why Bother? by djrosen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    MS has never shown the initiative to make things compliant why should any developers waste precious time coding a page for MS to balk at when there are other browsers out there? Firefox is slowly but surely gaining market share. I say Good Riddance to IE and make room for the new guys. Why HELP MS strenthen their hold?

    1. Re:Why Bother? by jbplou · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you are making a web page and you are not coding so that is renders correctly on IE you are a fool. It has 85% market share.

    2. Re:Why Bother? by Low2000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because if IE becomes more standards complient, that means that web coders will make their websites standards compliant. Thats good for the alternative browsers out there like Firefox and Opera more then anyone else. MS has enjoyed being in control of the bulk of the web browsing community for so long that if their browser doesn't conform to standards, the web coders have to conform to the browser.

  3. Standards, schmandards... by glamslam · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Standards compliance is for companies that don't have 90% or more of a market.

    Next!

    1. Re:Standards, schmandards... by rcamans · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I believe market refers to a place where you must pay for goods.
      I use the term "goods" loosely, here seeing as MS stuff should be termed "bads"
      But when you can get the same stuff for free, then the customer who pays is usually refered to as gullible, and the seller is often refered to as a con man.
      Don't they have laws against cons?
      Oh, wait, that law only applies to the little guys who con.
      Big guys who con are refered to as successfull monopolies.
      Never mind.

      --
      wake up and hold your nose
    2. Re:Standards, schmandards... by SpecBear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, indeed. As Netscape showed us, once you have a lock on the market the browser war is over and you don't have to improve your product at all.

      By the way, IE had 90% of the market. It no longer does. The problem with the monopoly position is that it makes MS complacent. If your browser is free, installed on almost every PC sold, and is the standard that most developers code to (even when it violates the W3C spec), then you really have to suck before people besides hard core geeks switch to something else. Once that starts happening, it means you've been sucking hard for a good long time and you've got a lot of catching up to do in terms of features and good will.

  4. Great Strategy by aspx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is brilliant!! Appear to be helpful, but really just point out shortcomings and bugs in your competitor's product, all the while gaining visibility and recognition in the community. I really must remember to do this sometime.

  5. Re:IE not worth caring about by stupidfoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is anybody actually caring about IE at this point?

    Why would anyone care about the experience of 90% (or whatever) of the site's users?

  6. Why take up the gauntlet? by Fjandr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft would more than likely simply ignore the challenge completely. What do they have to gain (at this point) from actually producing a standards-compliant browser?

    Now, perhaps if FireFox continues to chew up the percentages of web browser usage, they might try it for PR purposes, but that's hardly an issue at the moment. Microsoft is more of an in-the-moment company (unless you're speaking of up-and-coming products, where they announce competing programs years before they actually plan to implement the changes).

  7. Re:Opera by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Opera is hardly the bastion of interoperability.

    Correct. However, Opera is falling behind in mindshare now that FireFox has all the buzz. So the best thing for Opera to do is to put up a standards challenge to Microsoft.

    That accomplishes two things: (1) some free PR for Opera, and (2) if anyone really follows through with it, it is far easier for Opera to adapt to the results than Microsoft. Opera has only a miniscule installed base that it needs to stay compatible with.

  8. In other news... by wannabgeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Open Source geeks challenged M$ to make windows the most secure OS.
    US challenged China to be most democratic country
    blah blah

    Mod me down as troll, but what makes anyone think M$ cares about a challenge from a competitor?!

    --
    I'm much more funny, interesting and insightful than the moderators think
  9. Re:Opera by bogie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FWIW last time I checked Opera was pretty much tied with Firefox for being standards complaint. Among browsers that normal human use that's saying a lot.

    Based on that I don't see what's laughable.

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
  10. Re:Sometimes, IE renders bad HTML well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Browsers shouldn't render broken HTML.

    Compilers shouldn't compile broken code.

    If, as a programmer, you think that a compiler is better because it will compile buggy code without errors then god help you.

    The same applies to web design. Buggy HTML might render OK as just HTML, but once you start adding CSS into the equation (and IE has its OWN little array of bugs here) then it can start causing severely bizarre behavior.