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Illinois Videogame Law Moves Forward

The ongoing trend of legislating the sale of video games moves forward. Gamasutra has news on the Illinois law currently moving through the legislature, which apparently has "overwhelming support". From the Illinois debate: "An industry that is making so much money selling these things to your children is dealing with things like decapitation, defecation on people. There's vivid pictures of nudity. It's an industry that needs help being policed..."

18 of 192 comments (clear)

  1. Here's my suggestion by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let's make every game 18+ by default. Then let's set up a classification board, staffed by people who actually know how to play a game, that you have to go to if you want a game which is rated for younger audiences. Then let's change this mantra of the protectorate which I hear all the time: games are for kids. Games are not for kids. Surveys have shown that the vast majority of gamers are over 18 years of age. The fact that games contain elements which are distasteful in ordinary society is no big surprise when you stop thinking about games as entertainment for kids and start thinking about them as an escape from reality for adults.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Here's my suggestion by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Informative
      Maybe you should actually read what I wrote before replying. I said, games which are rated for children should be available. Games that are not rated (at all) should also be available -- to people over the age of 18. Parents are obviously free to allow their children to play any game they see fit -- even if it is unrated -- but children cannot buy these games.

      I think that's simple and straight forward, but your government (and mine even more so) do not understand that because they think of games as being solely for children. Here in Australia we don't even have an 18+ rating for games. We also don't allow unrated games on the shelves. The result is that the vast majority of people who play games (which, as I said, is mostly over the age of 18) are saddled with kiddie junk. The few companies that actually try to make games for adults have their games effectively banned from my country (as they are refused a classification and unrated games are banned from the shelves). So think yourself lucky that you have any adult rated games there at all.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Here's my suggestion by bmorton · · Score: 5, Informative

      The parent didn't say that people under 18 didn't play games. The parent states that survey's have shown that the vast majority of gamers are adults.

      The parent also didn't say that games should be banned for people under 18. The idea is that if a company wants people under 18 to be able to play the game, they have to submit it for review.

      Review boards wouldn't be necessary for most games, as they are obviously targetted to adults and could go straight to the stores with a rating of 18+. If a game is meant for a younger audience (or for all ages), it can be submitted and reviewed and then deemed appropriate. This also has the effet of stopping violent games from "slipping thru the cracks."

      Seems pretty reasonable to me

      -B

    3. Re:Here's my suggestion by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That'll be about as effective as banning drinking and smoking for kids...except games, being software, can't be as easily controlled as physical objects like booze or cigarettes.

      And there are a lot more "underage" gamers than underage smokers or drinkers.

      Games are not for kids.

      Games, like most things, are for people mature enough to handle it. I can play Halo and enjoy the strategy without going trigger-happy and without looking for a game with more gore. (In fact, much as I enjoy Halo, I find games with gratuitous gore very distasteful.)

      Surveys have shown that the vast majority of gamers are over 18 years of age.

      Ehheh. Right. Surveys show that the vast majority of people are over 18 years of age. I mean, you're comparing what, a group from roughly 10 or 12 to 18 with a group from 19 to who-knows-where? Of course you'll get more in the latter.

      Is there a survey that shows that there is a vastly greater percentage of gaming adults compared to the percentage of gaming teenagers? I'm pretty sure that a randomly-selected teenager is far more likely to play video games than a randomly-selected adult.

      The fact that games contain elements which are distasteful in ordinary society is no big surprise when you stop thinking about games as entertainment for kids and start thinking about them as an escape from reality for adults.

      Except for one thing: lots of developers treat games as entertainment for kids. And lots of teenagers like this kind of escape from reality, and are mature enough to handle tasteful games....

    4. Re:Here's my suggestion by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My original comment specifically said that game manufacturers should be able to submit their game to a review board which could hand out classifications for ratings other than 18+. I don't want to ban any games, I want all games to be 18+ and available on the shelf until such time as the manufacturer gets a lower rating.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    5. Re:Here's my suggestion by Eivind · · Score: 4, Informative
      There's a problem with this, and this problem is obvious in countries that have such a law, for example Germany.

      The problem is that in practice, any certification costs money. This means that any game developed by nonprofits in general will not be certified. It would be a lot of work, and quite likely costly, for a OSS developer to ensure that his game was certified according to each of dozens of different classification-boards.

      And if you think large groups of countries will agree on one common standard, one common certification board, you're dreaming. That's not the case for movies and wouldn't be the case for games.

      Practical upshot ? You can't legally sell a Linux-distro to a minor in Germany. In practice it's done all the time, because the law gets ignored for things which aren't mainly games, and which are obviously not very objectionable anyway.

      But in principle, you'll have to strip ALL games (including solitaire, mahjong, minesweeper and tuxracer) from a Linux-distro, or jump trough expensive and time-consuming hoops if you want to legally sell your linux-distro to minors in Germany.

      17 year-old linux-users aren't exactly *that* rare.

  2. Errrrr by schild · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Defecation on people?

    I play a _lot_ of games, and I'm pretty sure there's no game out there where you can squat and take a cleveland steamer on someone.

    Sure, you can pee on people in Postal 2, but that's surely what they aren't implying, or they would have used the word urinate.

    No matter how you slice it, the government's (local and national) obsession with controlling what media our children see is unhealthy. Hell, I don't even know how any lawmakers got it into their head that this is somehow important.

    --
    schild
    editor, f13.net
    1. Re:Errrrr by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The "Bubblegum" crew on CounterStrike (mostly on the Tokyo servers) will spraypaint their balls (an actual, hi-rez, digital picture of each player's manberries) on your corpse. I've seen these guys actually sacrifice themselves to jump across a level and spray balls on me.

      Another crew has a pic of poop in a urinal (WTF people) as their spray.

      So, yes, people do deficate on each other.

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    2. Re:Errrrr by mausmalone · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think that if he's talking about stuff like that and graphic nudity, he's talking about games clearly labeled Adults Only. To see how much this plague of bad taste was corrupting the youth of America, I went to the ESRB site and compiled a list of all Adults Only games:
      All Nude Glamour
      All Nude Nikki
      All Nude Cyber
      Body Language
      Cyber Photographer
      Crystal Fantasy
      Critical Point
      Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude Uncut and Uncensored
      Playboy Screensaver: The Women of Playboy
      Peak Entertainment Casinos
      Riana Rouge
      Singles
      Snow Drop
      The Joy of Sex (CDI)
      Tokimeki Checkin!
      Wet - The Sexy Empire
      Water Closet: The Forbiidden Chamber
      X-Change
      Some of you may recognize some of those titles from various Something Awful hentai game reviews. I've noted also that the only AO title on a console is "The Joy of Sex" for the Philips CDI, which is a digital version of the classic 1979 book by the same title which is considered to be both in good taste and respectable as a serious look at sex.

      Also worth noting for its oddity value, there are exactly 18 games intended only for people over 18. :P Also worth noting is that most video game stores won't touch these games and that the only way to get them is online directly from the publisher.

      The reason that congreess people are so up-in-arms about this is because there are 3 sides to this issue. Pro regulation: You think that video game violence is dispicable and the sexual content is deplorable, even though you've never played a video game nor have you ever seen any of this content you're so enraged at. Anti regulation: You think that the industry is doing a good job of regulating itself. You play games and if you have children, you monitor what they play and consider the ESRB ratings before making any purchase. Apathetic: They're just games... who cares?

      What makes lawmakers so fervent about this is that the type of people who are for regulation call them and write them constantly to make sure it happens. People who are anti-regulation write reactionary articles and either post them online or send them to the lawmakers, but since the lawmaker doesn't want to look like a "flip flopper," they refuse to change their stance. And the vast majority of people are apathetic on the subject, so even though they really aren't calling for regulation, nobody notices because they're not saying anything at all.
      --
      -=-=-=-=-=
      I'd rather be flamed than ignored.
  3. No more than other media... by gimpynerd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seems to me video games should not be regulated any more than movies or music. If children playing mature video games is a problem then it is their parents' problem not the government's.

  4. It's about time... by robw810 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yeah, it's about time the government figured out that all of us citizens are too ignorant to make our own decisions. We don't know what's best for us, and we certainly don't want any personal accountability involved. It's easier if they make all of the important decisions for us...
    /sarcasm

    I for one am sick and tired of living in a nanny state. Government's only legitimate function is to secure individual rights; unless someone else's rights are being infringed upon, government has no legitimate interest.

    RW

  5. Getting my goat by tsm_sf · · Score: 4, Funny

    What would you call a hybrid scapegoat/bandwagon... I like GoatWagon. Senators with too much free time on their hands will jump on any goatwagon "for the children". (This stuff practically writes itself, folks.)

    --
    Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
  6. Re:"for the children" by robw810 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wonderful point there...

    Any time I hear "it's for the children," "the elderly," "less fortunate," "disabled," or some other emotional plea for support of some legislation, I always think:
    This legislation must be pretty bad if it can't support itself without blind emotional pleas...

    RW

  7. I don't understand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't understand why people who's kids buy games they don't approve of don't just stop giving their kids $50 and letting them go to the video game store unsupervised.

  8. Patheitc by HeavyK · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This law is so vague it would essenially ban minors from buying football games, World War 2 themed shooters or even RPGs because they contain realistic depictions of human on human violence.
    If this law was extended to cover movies, music and books also it would essenically (sp?) outlaw the sale of the Bible or Star Wars films to minors. Pretty pathetic.

    1. Re:Patheitc by HeavyK · · Score: 5, Informative

      Go to this website: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/default.asp Then on the left hand corner of the screen is a thing called "Search by Number". In the blank space right below it type "HB4023" without the quotes. Then in the top left hand corner click "Full Text". Sorry i couldn't find a direct link that could work.

  9. Re:since when... by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can get japanese H games in the US legally, though not at any retailers that I know of. There are cute little animal games where your cute little animal takes cute little turds, but not on anybody. There is a webgame version of Puyo Puyo where your special attack is throwing up on your opponent. There were a few games in the 80's where birds would poo on you, though those weren't very good games. There's the 7 sins, where the point is to try to have sex with as many people as possible. There is, of course a PS2 version.

    There are a lot of bad games out there. But then, there are millions of games out there. By the same token, I don't have anything morally against making parents come in and buy games for their kids if they want them to have them. I've known far too many people in the retail sector who have told kids no, and been yelled at by the parent for stopping their kid from buying, say, Manslaughter. Inevitably, the parent then comes back the following day and freaks out on the poor underpaid associate for selling such filth to their kid.

    I think the generation which preceeded ours has certain expectations about cartoons and videogames which ours does not. To them, more mature cartoons or videogames is like Jack Daniels flavored breastmilk. Or black leather studded diapers. In exactly the same way that movies were seen as kid's stuff at the turn of the century, so too is videogames the realm of kids. And therefore anything that gets released in a videogame is marketed at kids, and all of that stuff that you see in videogames is people trying to mess up your children.

    It's a different perspective. While I don't disagree with the idea of restricting the sale of certain videogames to minors, I do disagree with the perspective.

  10. Thank You, O Wise Legislators by MemeSpitter · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've seen em! Game-tapes awarding bonus scores for defecation! Soon children everywhere will be hurling clumps of fecal matter at each other with simian-like abandon! And this mindless violence modeled for our children... I see kids in my neighborhood jumping on their pet turtles in the street every day.

    These kids need to learn that if you want to commit acts of violence for no good reason whatsoever, you coerce Congress to declare war on a random middle-eastern country. That's just the way it's done, damnit!

    So I'm glad some legislature finally realizes the importance of applying state-sanctioned blanket age restrictions on videogames. Because it's well-known that everyone is magically at the exact same level of maturity when they reach some arbitrary age, and I sure as hell know that my state's laws kept me from getting any R-rated movies - or beer - before my time.